Darling's indiscretions

First, welcome back from you long holiday Nick, you have been badly missed.

However, I think that the best solution would be for Jack Straw to take over as leader of the labour party and accordingly become the Prime Minister.

I too am putting on my I told you so hat and to some of us it has been obvious that Gordon Brown is totally unsuitable as PM. His conduct over the Georgia crisis, words no action because he is totally emasculated. Everybody is positioning themselves for what comes next.

The same with China and not only the Olympic games themselves, but also the Olympic torch fiasco in London.

I now know of nobody who does not think that he took over as a result of a bloodless coup. What worries me is that he actually thinks that we should ignore his most ignoble act. It will haunt him to his grave that he failed to come to the electorate which would have given him legitimacy.

We cannot afford our occupation of Iraq and our continued presence in Afghanistan. Not only morally but also financially. Does nobody else find it strange how the number of our deaths in both conflicts has dropped dramatically, have new instructions gone out to all miltary commanders. Is it a case of All Quiet on the Western front.

No, Gordon Brown will be haunted by his support for the wars, as chancellor he paid for them, and his complete lack of any legitimacy.

Finally, why should I bale out homebuyers who have over committed themselves. I was prudent they have been profligate, and don't give me the emotional black-mail of children will find themselves on the street.

As for Darling's comments about the worst economoic crisis for sixty years, he is not going back far enough. This is going to be worse than the Great Depression, people have more to lose.

Look at the price of wheat, farmers will just let it rot becaise they won't make an economic return, the banks will still want loans repaid, where will the money come from.

You need to look at 1928 and see what was done to save the New York Stock Market, and you will then realise why 1929 was inevitable. Also 1927 was a bad year for crops, the price of wheat rose so farmers over planted. The crop was great in 1928 but the price achieved was appalling.

Henry Ford was wrong, History is not Bunk. Now that the olympics are over in China just watch as the problems materialise. Chad/Cameroon Oil pipeline and the Dafur region are totally connected. The wars will not go away.

As an earlier poster has said, why should we as a country borrow even more money to bail people out who have managed their finances badly? It's like Northern Rock all over again.

Hopefully Gordon will be out by christmas, I am getting embarrassed for him now. And please someone reshuffle Jacqui Smith out of the cabinet; she is clearly not up to the job.

Welcome back Nick!

Nick

Surely, if Mr Darling was given the sack or repositioned out of the cabinet in a re-shuffle, then it would be seen that the PM does not like anyone telling what may be the truth.

In such an outcome, the PM would more than likely suffer a backlash from his own party and further bad press. But, maybe that is why Mr Darling gave the interview - it may be a very shrewd move on his part.

Welcome back Nick.

I look forward to your blogs throughout conference season.

Unless he is very careful Gordon will have a severe problem if he shuffles somebody out of office who really does not want to be shifted.

They will feel that they have been used and that there is no loyalty. We know that as PM Gordon has the ability to set the agenda, and that he can hire and fire. However, that is about it.

Now if he were to announce an inquiry into the Iraq war, that he would demand the report on Bloody Sunday to be issued in a fixed time frame, announce that there will be an inquest into the death of Dr David Kelly and finally that an immediate and urgent inquiry into our part in the extra-rendition by the United States, then he can go tomorrow, and take the worst Parliament for over 100 years with him.

We have been let down by MPs, all the MPs, so go Gordon and take this shower with you.

This looks to me like Darling heard all the rumours that Miliband would be made CofE as a peace offering and so he's decided to get his retaliation in first. As has been said it now makes it very hard for Brown to reshuffle both Miliband and Darling, this will rob his reshuffle of headline impact as no one really cares who is in charge of Heath, Education or Transport. It's only when you move one of the 3 great offices of state that people pay attention and I can't see Jacqui Smith being moved either.

One issue which is being totally ignored with regard to the economy over the next five years is the fact that hundreds of thousands of post war babies will soon be reaching retirement age.

There was a massive increase in the birth rate between 1944 and 1949, all these people will be over 60 from next year. Women born 1949 will be retiring, from next year. This will have a fundamental effect on unemployment figures because they will become economically inactive. This is when young people will resent these people being paid to do nothing.

Young people, especially single women with children, receiving working families tax credits, will also suffer as older pensioners continue to pay taxes so that women in that situation seem to get something for nothing. The redistribution of wealth has gone on long enough.

Finally, if people over 60 receive both a pension and continue to work then are they not depriving young people of the opportunity of a job. They can afford to take low wages because they receive a pension to top up their earnings. People receiving a pension should not work, they are depriving the youngsters of a well paid future.

Am I alone in thinking that a minister shouldn't be using language such as "pissed off" in a public interview? No-one seems to have picked up on this, which is perhaps even more concerning.

I voted Labour in for its then leadership (Tony Blair) but surprise, surprise, I now no longer support the current leadership.

However, you have to admire Mr Darling for being straight in the first place about the real world. It is going to get bad out here and the worst is still to come.

My only wish is that he did not do that qualifying interview that repeated again and again an obvious government mantra... 'its important to understand that its a world problem", etc, etc. He's not a great communicator but it was like he had been brain-washed after stepping out on line.

The best thing he can do (when the job goes to Balls) is to denouce the current leadership.

Were Darlings comments the words of the "grey man" or "the men in grey suits"?

It seems to me that taken with Milibands comments this amounts to people tying a note, "resign", to the house brick and lobbing it through Gordons window. They want him to go gracefully.

Meanwhile Gordons is steadfastly steering his ship even though it has now hit the ocean floor.

I will be stunned if there is not a leadership challenge in a few weeks.

I dont beleive Brown has the bottle to reshuffle the cabinet.

He hasnt the guts to dismiss Smith.
He needs Darling as C of E because no one else will do as they are told. (dont forget Brown has already said HE himself is the one to guide us through the economic woes)
He is too scared to move Milliband.

This Government will limp on until the latest possible moment to call an election.
By the time they have finished it wont be the worst economic crisis for 60 years more like the worst crisis EVER.

I dont envy whoever has to take over to sort out the mess but if it is as bad as i think at least the voters will understand that it will take more than one term to sort out.

Hi Nick,

Welcome back!

btw.....I wished I could afford to take a months holiday!......poor old Newsnights Paul Mason has been single handedly 'holding the fort' for all odf the BBC's bloggers.

I believe Alistair Daring should immediately announce a windfall tax on the cartel energy companies before they all disappear (off-shore) to either Ireland or Switzerland. He needs to set the agenda by getting this announcement in first in order to 'start the ball rolling' on the government's packagage of (long awaited) autumn initiatives to save the economy. The fear of them transferring investment away from the UK is a red herring. They'll still come back crawling to Treasure Island. The banks will have to be dealt with at a later date (if they survive!!!)

Unfortunatey.... I fear that we are just seeing the beginning of the NuLab blame game and the economy will just go into meltdown. By just admitting that they have presided over economic incompetance over the last decade is just not good enough. They must act decisively and act now!

60 years ago was 1948. So he is looking back to 5 years before he was born (and before his Civil Servants were born.) To him and his it is ancient history.

I wonder why he chose 1948 or was it just a random early date? Should we read anything into choosing the year the railways were nationalised and the NHS started?

As a solicitor we may perhaps assume he does not shoot of his mouth at random and thus chose the date of 1948 with care. But why?

My guess he chose to speak out to prevent him being removed in a reshuffle - it is more difficult to chop of the head that has put itself above the parapet and spoken the truth rather than an anonymous follower.

#9 Dross2

I did not think that the moderators would actually allow the term 'pissed off' to be included on the comments. I have been moderated out for much less, so well done for getting your comment through. Now we have to ask can we have a comprehensive list of acceptable terms. Mind you did not John Major use the term 'bastards'.

Unparliamentary language if you ask me. What term will Gordon use at conference. Any suggestions?

I agree, it's an extraordinary comment but when seen at a personal level set against the deep changes necessary in the British economy and political flak that's going around, it looks much more tame and not out of place for an unassuming character like Alistair Darling.

The fundamental problems with the British economy remain a lack of leadership, teamwork, and the long-long view. Nothing in David Cameron's comments suggest the Tories get this or are willing to do anything about it. Their pretence is paper thin and getting thinner.

Worrying about the mountain is a waste of time. With Gordon Brown's vision and with, arguably, the best man for the job of Chancellor in the role at just the right time, I think, we're extraordinarily fortunate. With grace, the mountain will come to us.

@15
Tankers with a doubleU

@16

WAKE UP!

It's a very sad day for Journalism and Politics alike when the person in charge of the economy is criticized for (for once) telling what appears to be his personal, truthful, honest opinion. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't...

Let's be clear, it is the media and journalists per se (some more culpable than others, granted) that started to talk us into the looming recession in the first place.

When the likes of this site incessantly "report" or opine on the doom and gloom that face us on a national and global basis, do those resposible for loading 'news' (which is no longer news, it is simply spinned content) take responsibility for every word, phrase, implied meaning in what they force feed the public in this saturated media age? Do they not see that incessant negativity and our daily dose of the breakfast cereal that is the 'credit crunch' contributes to country-wide negative morale, individual depression and ultimately, the sorts of things Ms. Smith (i.e. spiralling of crime) talked about in her 'leaked' memo? Does the media not see that, via its collective and self-asserting power, it is far more guility of scaremongering than any Politician could ever be?

I long for the return of the voice of reason to media and politics, when reality can be deciphered from farce and fiction.

I do however fear that the media will be the central cause of its own demise and will succeed in talking the country into absolute anarchy by failing to understand the full implications of the powers of persuasion it holds over the general public, much more power than any Politician like Darling or Brown could ever posses.

Good on Alistair Darling for being frank and asserting himself.

I would feel much better if Alistair Darling outlined a clear direction for mitigating issues in the economy - however grim the reality might be.

Instead we are going to get a plan conceived by Gordon on his own, scribbled on the back of a post card. This plan will have one single agenda - namely the survival of Mr G.Brown.

If government ministers continue to assert themselves and drive the direction of their departments, then the Conservatives might have an actual fight on their hands at the next election.

I expect, however, the government is going to continue to lurch from 'Gordon Brown re-launch' to 'Gordon Brown re-launch' until somebody has sunk him.

Firstly, welcome back Nick! I hope you had an enjoyable holiday and are feeling suitably refreshed and ready to report on all the goings-on in the political world with renewed vigour. We missed you!

It strikes me that the main reason why Darling seems to be getting into trouble is that he told the truth. We all know that's totally unacceptable for any politician, let alone a cabinet minister.

What a shame that's the way things are. Wouldn't it be great if telling the truth were not only acceptable but the norm.

Please tell me if you think I'm being too cynical!

All Darling is doing is protecting his back. GB appointed Darling to be Chancellor and left him to deal with a barrage of criticism for decisons and actions that GB had undertaken. Frankly, Darling owes GB nothing - lets face it GB showed the way in terms of political loyalty (lol) so he cannot be surprised if his colleagues are not very loyal to him.

America to sign agreement when their troops are to leave Iraq. When will Gordon Brown tell us exactly what he proposes to do or will he wait until the party conference to make another announcement about troop withdrawals.

Oh, forgot he may wait until the conservative party conference to make any announcements as another spoiler!

The American signature will help McCain even more, I think that his victory will be guaranteed if he handles the hurricane Gustav as well as it looks that he is. He already assumes the mantle of President. If only Gordon could have another disaster to deal with.

Regarding Gordon's economic recovery plan no doubt it will be unfair, costly and badly thought out. The idea of helping homeowners cover their mortgages at taxpayers expense - well we have already taken on Northern Rock with no idea how long we'll have to support it. All those labour-voting geordies; how long will we be paying their mortgages for?

The same for the 10p fiasco - instead of making us go cap in hand and claim it back in tax credits he could simply have reverted to the previous tax bands - even Fern Brittan pointed that obvious solution out in one of Gordon's sofa visits.

Of course Gordon could help families and businesses out straightaway by simply reducing fuel duty, but that's probably far too simple and unbureaucratic to occur to him.

I cannot believe someone suggested Jack Straw take over as PM. There are surely more talented and better candidates for the job than that.

As for comments 15 and 9, the substance of what is said is more important than the language used.

Mind you I'm not so prim as to find the Chancellor's expression offensive. At least it shows he has something of the common populace about him.

I do however fear that the media will be the central cause of its own demise and will succeed in talking the country into absolute anarchy by failing to understand the full implications of the powers of persuasion it holds over the general public, much more power than any Politician like Darling or Brown could ever posses.

Charles your logic is flawed.

According to you (and others) Gordon is quite possibly the best chancellor the world has ever seen. He himself has stated that HE will steer the economy through these troubled waters. However, clearly running a troubled economy AND running a country still embroiled in several foreign conflicts is too much for ANY one person.

The economy is the most important problem to solve at this moment for the interests of this country. This leads to the obvious conclusion that GB should resign the office of Prime Minister in order to take up the reigns as chancellor again, and any other action should probably be considered treasonous!

Gordon Brown says he has "full confidence" in Mr. Darling.
Everyone assumes now that Mr. Darling will be gone by the end of the month in the forthcoming reshuffle and we will have lost a safe pair of eyebrows. He will be missed.

Finally somebody from the Cabinet has come out and admitted the blatent truth. The situation were in now IS worse than we have ever had it for the last 60 years.

The governments control of the economy has been awful. Banks let previous adverse clients buy mortgages with 90/95% of no liabillity knowing full well that they would not be able to pay it back, all the while the financial authorities let this go on during what we can now look back on and call a economic paradise!, why should the government borrow more money to bail out homeowners who cant control their own finances?

The government needs to start taking account for things and design a recovery package. So far every measure introduced is just a flop.

Gordon Brown is a master strategist to his DNA, and as he's growing into the role and leaning on mean and women of calibre, things can only improve. That's the difference between a winner and a loser. Indeed, this spirit of winning is what the Prime Minister wishes to see develop in the nation and its people.

The economy is piffle. It really isn't the mountain people assume it to be. It's essence and how to deal with it could be squeezed within the covers of a childrens book. Almost any fool could run it, and many do. What matters most and, perhaps, can't entirely be explained by logic, is insight, humanity, and faith.

By constraining the world by your own understanding you limit potential within your own life. Nick see the world through Machivelli but there's other ways, like the Tao, Zen, and Bushido. This is not an outside or other thing, it's a personal thing. Treason? You're treasonous to yourself. Why do it? Be happy.

It's a normal human response to want to be well thought of as you reach the end of your career.

Darling can read the polls as well as anyone, and being a Scottish MP also looks at the Scottish polls. The poll of polls for Scots Westminster voting intention in August shows

SNP 38% : Lab 27% : Con 19% : Lib-Dem 13%

Edinburgh South West may well be a 4-way marginal at the next election. Certainly he cannot assume that he will still be an MP after the GE.

What is this talking the economy down buiness that the Chancellor is being blamed of doing?

The current crisis stems from the banks not being able to lend money like they were a year ago because they're all in danger of going bust.

It doesn't matter what Darlling says about it, the banks have ruined their balance sheets and no matter how cheery any politician or economist is about this mess, false smiles and feigned confidence will not make the banks solvent again.

No point blaming the media for reporting the news either. That's their job. If the banking system wasn't based on lies and deceiving the public then we wouldn't be in this mess.

#25 Brenmar

So come on then name these other people. If you are going to disagree with me then who are the alternatives. It is not good enough just to say there are more talented and better candidates.

I think you will find that Jack Straw will be the next leader of the labour party. He has been after the job for years, they will however have to drag him kicking and screaming to the post, just like the Speaker.

Talking about the Speaker I wonder how much worse his performance will be when parliament resumes. Another reason why this parliament must go?

Funny that no one seems to credit AD with any political ambition. That maybe this was a calculate attack on 'rose tinted' colleagues to give him greater creditability post Brown...

@30

Charles if the economy is piffle and "any fool" could run it, what does that say about our current PM, who was just that fool for 10 years, and has run it so badly we are in the worst financial crisis since the war?

I've missed your in(s)ane ramblings

I think Alastair knows he will be got rid of at the next reshuffle. Gordon Brown has to have a scapegoat to save his miserable neck, and it's probably going to to be Alastair.

Alastair's gone public because he's probably sick to death of being Gordon's puppet and being blamed for all and sundry.

Miliband might also have been offered the job to keep him sweet. I think the saying goes...keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

#16

I fear Charles has forgotten to remove his rose-tinted sunglasses when he came back from his holidays. There again, he may still be on holiday. if so I'd love to know where he is because it is evidently much better there.

#34

Of course AD has political ambitions. Trouble is so do most of the rest, for example watch out for Ben Bradshaw, it will be interesting to see what happens to some of the lower ranking ministers in the relaunch.

When we talk about events dear boy, then another headline from the past which will no doubt soon to be used will be 'the night of the long knives'. One minute they are there the next they are gone. Kick out the jam brothers and sisters, now where did that one come from.

Alan Johnson has also been very quiet! Interesting, very interesting.

The more one learns about Alastair Darling the more one warms to the man.

I have remarked previously that after a very wobbly start he seems to have restored some political direction to The Treasury. Such sensitivity has been missing for about eleven years.

Now we hear the man has a croft in the Outer Hebrides and he tells it how it is. What else can one expect from a man with that background? He treats us as intelligent people and I can respect that courtesy.

The question we need to ask ourselves now is do we need the big beasts of the jungle in politics? You know, all the ego and self-promotion of Blair, Brown, Cameron, Harman and the like. They do not bring honesty and integrity to the situation, so why do we have to humour them?

No, let us have political leaders like Darling who know one end of a sheep from the other, who are candid and respectful to the intelligence of the electorate.

And where is Gordon Brown while his chancellor says he's inherited one helluva mess and his home secretary says there's nothing she can do about rising crime an his foreign office secretary writes a public condemnation of NuLabour's perfaormance?

Gordon Brown is hiding in his bunker trying to pull some rabbits out of hats when he knows full well the coffers have been bled dry.

The very idea that Gordon Brown has some kind of long term vision which will suddenly be revealed and lift us all out of the mess he created is utterly risible. We wait and wait for keynote speeches without content or direction; the same triate old NuLabour politburo speak about new deals and sure start and targets being met.

They've sold us moonshine for eleven years and now the hangover has truly begun. Darling clealry wants out and is fed up with the plotting behind the scenes by Ed Balls and Yvette Cooper to get rid of him so he's done what every man about to be sacked would do and said 'it's not my fault'.

The wider issue is that Darling has brought into sharp relief the fact that Gordon Brown is a dead man walking; one faction giving him a month, another till the end of the party conference, another unitl next year. It's one stay of execution after another. This is not a way to run the country.

The bickering behind closed doors of milliband, Brown, Cooper, Balls, Flint, Darling, Smith et al is plain for all to see.

NuLabour will be out of power for twenty years after the longest act of hubris ever seen in the UK. Everything was fools gold. And they know it.

No amount of PR executives can extracate any political party from this self dug grave. All of those bickering cabinet ministers will see their parliamentary careers disappear for a generation.

Diddums.

I just saw this as a bit of classic New Labour expectation management. Talk for a while about pestilence, the moon turning to blood, etc. and then when unemployment is 'only' 2.5 million breathe a sigh of relief and claim the credit for the difference.

Re: 30.

Charles.

If the essence of running the economy could be squeezed between the covers of a children's book, and any fool could run the economy, perhaps you could explain to me why this country is in such a dreadful financial state. This cannot be blamed on any other party. These particular fools have been in power for far too long.

Darling's trying to save his own reputation at any cost: the usual Labour party behaviour. Weasels!

It goes to show that their tax and squander policies have failed and they can't do anything about anything. They're rotten to the core. Who would've thought that it could get worse? Will there be a Britain left by 2010?

Was it me, or did you say "pi55ed off" on Today this morning?

Can't believe you got away with it!

My first thought when hearing about this article was that Darling was throwing his hat into the ring as post-Brown safe-pair-of-hands for Labour's upcoming election defeat.

maybe it's because I've been out of the country but I seem to remember it been pretty clear who was going to be PM after Blair at the last election. Most of the country also seemed enthusiastic to see GB take over, or at least see the back of Blair.
Sure sounds like he's making a bit of a hash of it but, lets not pretend we all said so before hand.

The use of the expression 'pissed' off is utterly disgraceful. It is worse than the phrase 'sexed up.' Please can you start this new term with a bit of decorum and during your interview on tonight's 10 o'clock news express your concern at the use of such language in any interview. There are far better words to use about this government - recognising they are useless springs to mind.

Welcome back by the way - nothing like a quiet start back and this is going to be nothing like a quiet start back for you!

#9 – Dross2
Should he be using language such as “p****d off” in a public interview?

Why not? The many members of the public feel the same. He is obviously trying to reconnect with real people.

The current crisis stems from the banks not being able to lend money like they were a year ago because they're all in danger of going bust.

And why were they lending like that? Because if they didn't they'd lose market share and their directors would be out on their ear. But where was the regulator or the government in all this? Why didn't anybody from the treasury say something?

If we're all smoking and eating pies there's no end of government busy-bodies telling us to lay off the bad habits.

But nobody in government, even with the evidence fresh in their minds of the 1980's housing boom, thought it worth mentioning that things were getting a little out of control. It's almost as if they engineered a housing boom knowing the feel-good factor coupled with the massive amounts of government borrowing would keep GDP rising and allow Gordon Brown to keep on bragging about umpty quarters of continual growth.

The blame for this recession lies firmly with this government. They borrowed hundreds of billions to pump-prime the economy and kept schtum while the great British public likewise gorged on feel-good borrowed 'wealth'. The government may too have been caught out by the banks' sudden financial embarrassment hoping that such lending could go on indefinitely but that still says nothing good about their motives.

Darling deserves a lot more credit than I'd previously given him. Whether he knew it or not at the time, a stretch in No 11 was always going to be a poisoned chalice - his stock has risen after this interview, which would be helpful for Labour in a post-Brown opposition.

How nice it is to be off holiday and back to the daily grind ... I'm sure you'd agree Nick !

One question is worrying me. Doesnt the location of Alistair Darling's interview give cause for concern ?
If this is, as he says, the worst economic crisis this country has faced for 60 years, then why is the Chancellor of the Exchequer on an away-from-it all holiday in the Hebrides? Why hasn't he cancelled his holiday and come back to London to chair a whole series of emergency crisis meetings at the Treasury to decide what is to be done as a matter of the utmost urgency ? .. or is his mate Gordon doing all that for him and we're just not being told about it ? Seems to me that somebody in government ought to be doing something !
... and if anyone wants to know how out of touch our PM really is, just take a look at that picture of him sitting on a beach in Suffolk ...WEARING A HARRIS TWEED SPORTS JACKET ! Get out of the 40s Gordon before you drag us all back there.

re: 45

Nah I doubt it, he's doing a Blair and getting out before he's lynched!

Gordon the Bringer of Doom
Wants more of our tax to consume,
But the badger's turned tail
(His eyebrows turned pale!)
Labour are toast, I presume

Mind you I'm not so prim as to find the Chancellor's expression offensive. At least it shows he has something of the common populace about him.

In an honest world he'd be using far more appropriate language to describe the situation we've been placed in by his incompetent government. But I s'pose respect is due to his small effort to 'feel our pain'.

The one thing that concerns me though is that this government still cannot admit its mistakes. So Darling recognises that the voters are upset. He's right. They are. But the majority of them are upset not because Gordon Brown has borrowed to the hilt and now that we're entering a recession he can borrow no more without the civilised world shrieking in horror at our deficit. They're upset because the value of their house has gone down. So they feel poorer. Or can't remortgage and 'release the equity' to spend on a few treats like a new car/foreign holiday/52" plasma TV.

And my great fear is that it is this second group of upset people that Labour will choose to appease. Watch for 100bn of 'investment in infrastructure' (previously known for the last hundred years as 'budget deficit) for the next couple of years.

Labour's answer to the problems of excess borrowing and squandering will be- more borrowing and squandering. You know it. The markets know it. That's why the pound is in a nose dive. Because to cut the repayments on the massive borrowing they'll cut interest rates.

#44 Mr Medzy


Come on if you are going to mention the fact that the term 'pissed off' was used on air then refer to some of the earlier blogs.

go to #9 and #15. Try to be original!

Are we testing the moderators, no I think that they are actually becoming more tolerant, and have listened to earlier comments. Good for them.

"Charles_E_Hardwidge wrote:
......With Gordon Brown's vision and with, arguably, the best man for the job of Chancellor in the role at just the right time, I think, we're extraordinarily fortunate. With grace, the mountain will come to us......"

And the best bit in a leter post:

"....any fool can run the economy...."

I think the above statement sums up New Labour, their supporters and the government of the last 11 years.

No other words are necessary.

#33

Hilary Benn, John Denham and Alan Johnson are three of the current cabinet who come to mind. Straw is a ditherer and lacks charisma. Straw by name and Straw by nature. Outside the cabinet there are lot of suitable people: Mr Blobby, Bart Simpson and Martin Clunes' spaniel Alice come to mind.

If the essence of running the economy could be squeezed between the covers of a children's book, and any fool could run the economy, perhaps you could explain to me why this country is in such a dreadful financial state. This cannot be blamed on any other party. These particular fools have been in power for far too long.

What's the issue here?
Normal, non-rude-word postings don't get through.
Should I include a few ruder phrases?

Perhaps Charles E could explain why Gordon Brown's "vision" has dropped the country into such a financial mess.

Under the Blair and Brown regime, conditions could have been put in place to avoid the wild over-lending by financial institutions, that let house prices get out of control. In fact, they did nothing. Well, that's not quite true - they brought in higher Stamp Duty rates.

The FSA, Brown's creation, could have been forced to be more aware of the structures on which the banks depended and not just ignore warning signs that Northern Roick (which of course happens to be in a Labour stonghold) was too far away from London to worry about. Wonder if they would have rushed in to save a Chelsea fund?

PFI/PPP deals could have been much more competently managed. But that requires some people in Government to have just a little clue about what it actually means to manage money, rather than assuming they'll have it because they can dip into our pockets.

We have the worst Balance of Trade situation for decades, despite having an innovative and well managed manufacturing sector.

When exactly has Brown injected major Research and Development funding to help UK companies develop new energy-generating technologies?

Blair was a politician in the Bill Clinton mould - bright, communicative, telegenic, but shallow. He was also the coward who could not sack Brown. He reverted to his personal accumulative instincts as soon as he handed over to Brown. Of course, he still empathises with the "poor people".

Brown has shown typically "Old Left" assumptions since he abandonned the "Prudence" (which was actually following Ken Clarke's budget plan) years ago. Like so many people, he seems to think that SPENDING money on an increasing scale is the same as actually DELIVERING something.

It was insulting for him to tell families not to throw away so much of their shopping - eat up the left-overs...

In principle, a sensible view for anyone.

BUT, when families have "income problems", they tighten their belts. Brown simply assumed that there was a never-ending supply of taxes, so there appears to have been no decision to stop wastage within public services. In other words - Brown doesn't need to live within a budget. He chose to borrow huge sums that the next generations will have to pay back. And retain enormous future costs for public service final-salary pensions. (And of course PPP repayments.)

Times got tougher. Did Brown tell the QANGOs that they should all make a 2-3 percent cut in COST? No evidence of that. But that sort of approach happens all the time in a business. (OK - let's exclude the financial services area. Those guys are simply greed-on-legs. Wasn't always as bad as we are now experiencing - and in the past, failure wasn't marked by huge bonuses.)

Brown - and his side-kick Ed Balls - have a wonderfully detached of real life. Economists practise an art - NOT a science (which is why the Stern Report was such a wonderful example of how NOT to consider whether Global Warming could be "fixed" by devestating - and impractical - impacts on global economies!).

Things are in a financial mess. Let's not make it politically worse.

If Brown had any sense, he'd be working with - not against - Russia. Like it or not, the UK failed to develop gas storage capabilities over the last decade. So we flog off resources to Europe, then pay extreme prices to buy it back when it's really needed. There is a European dependency that won't go away because the smirking Miliband kid talks the talk - but has no resources to back the walk.

In Kosovo, the West preferred "self-determination" over "territorial integrity". Borders have never been written in stone.

If they were, Nice would not be a part of France (nor Alsace...). Texas, New Mexico, Utah, California etc would still be a part of Mexico. Tibet would be totally independent. Taiwan would be a province of China. When did the "indisputable lines" get drawn? (Let's not even talk about Africa, whose component nations were determined by arbitrary lines drawn on a map by colonial powers - a little like much of the Middle East, in fact!)

Just get in a few people who will stop Governments spending money they don't have and make them limit their borrowings.

Not nice to think that my kids and their children will be paying off totally unnecessary debts racked up by a government with an understanding of the price of anything (which we pay for), but the value of none.

A certain zen-obsessed blogger is trolling again. Don't take the bait fellow bloggers!

Charles.

Please explain to me the difference between "a fool" and "a wise fool".

My dictionary - and I'm afraid it's Cassells, and not The Concise Oxford, says the definition of a fool is a person without common sense, a jester, and a buffoon. There is no definition of a "wise fool", so which of these "fools" is Gordon Brown, please, and which one is Alastair?

I think it's Brown who's more at risk of losing his job than Darling.

When your chancellor openly comes out and clearly implies that the person who's been in charge of the money for the last 10 years had/has no idea what he's doing, is now in complete denial of reality, and that he managed to ruin the economy even worse than labour did in the 1970's you know the game's up.

In a way I feel sorry for Darling; being blamed for Brown's incompetence by the media, and then not being allowed to do anything about the current problems because Brown's in total denial and won't let him.

I don't think Brown's going to last more than a couple of weeks; labour MPs will kick him out during the conference, if they don't then they know they'll face total permanent oblivion; to willfully allow your leader to continue during a recession when the leader is in total denial of all reality would be permanent electoral suicide; labour would just become a weird footnote of history, and schoolchildren in the future will wonder with complete bemusement how such a complete incompetent with no understanding of reality was allowed to run things for 11 years without the ruling party saying "hang on; this is dangerous, he needs to go."

I'm glad the emperor's new clothes have finally been seen for what they are, and I hope the BBC think hard about why they didn't criticise Brown for all these years when they knew he was ruining the economy/country.

You have to wonder whether the "pissed off" comment was meant to be on the record or not. It's up there with John Major's "bastards" comment in terms of crassness. It's got the ring of complete desperation. Politicans shouldn't swear. Not for ethical reasons so much as the point of being a politican is you're meant to be in control and people who swear are clearly not in control. As with Major's "bastards" comment this is a vivid admission that things are not going to plan. Yes, the whole interview shows this but the emotive language underlies real panic. Darling's comments on not understanding the scale of the credit crunch are interesting but surely the purpose of politicians is to exhibit foresight? You can't imagine David Cameron stepping into this man-trap. He has indeed shown too much of himself. In terms of policy I think Darling has made too many mistakes to justify his position.

I saw that interview Nick and was shocked by what looked like a man in fear.
What had they done to him?
I have more admiration for him now than before for he is clearly a man who knows the true facts and is trying to warn us all not to be complacent.
I am not surprised that no one wants GB's job. Unfortunately the country is now adrift with no one in control.
It would now be the honourable thing for this government to resign and apologise to the people of the country for letting them down so badly.
I do not envy the Tories.
What they will have to do will be to face the harsh reality that this lot don't have the guts to do.
At least they still have experienced members in their ranks who have done it before.

Seems to me that Darling is pretty p.o. with GB, but he was only half-way to true transparancy - he refused to accept that WA is 'unlikeable' and time after time kept coming back to: every country in the world is suffering like us...

He's ready for the push and is preparing the ground, he feels betrayed, I think, by circumstance.

Welcome back Nick, I'm looking forward to lots of political fireworks over the coming months, both here and in the US...

Please explain to me the difference between "a fool" and "a wise fool".

I feel sorry the tories. When they get in they'll be forced to cut back public spending to affordable levels in an attempt to repair Gordon's mess. I can't imagine all the NHS bureaucrats, diversity awareness officers, council jobsworths and other non-jobs created by Labour being very happy about being put on the dole.

Who would blame them for wanting to protect their gold-plated pensions by bring Labour straight back into power in 2014.

Charles E states:

"There's fools, and fools. As one learns things and develops sensitivities, this builds up into a big thing people give awards or offer jobs for, but it's all meaningless. The fool clings to its illusory importance but the wise fool does not."

Once the fools abandon the "illusory importance" what do you suggest they do?

Make a fortune like T Blair, based on the fact that people voted for him? Does that make him such an expert that Financial institutions would welcome him with open arms? For dragging the UK into an awful economic situation? For strutting around while soldiers do things they should probably not have been asked to do? For taking holidays at the expense of others, which most people would like to do?

Slink away to a crofter's existence, as I hope Brown will do, so he can celebrate the courage that he wrote about but never showed?

Write crap on a website?

Could you illustrate who justifies your description of "wise fools"?

"I've sat at dinner tables with down and out herion addicts who have more sense than some captains of industry, and with someome who later became a cabinet minister more by luck than judgement. Who is the bigger fool? The addict, the minister or, indeed, myself?"

You don't get it Charles.

Becoming a Minister is always a bit of luck. It depends on the Leader of a party who happens to be PM and his or her's personal likes/dislikes or political expediencies. There is no career guidance for achieving Ministerial status. At least, there wasn't until recently.

Now it seems that having a real job, depending on real people paying earned (after-tax discretionary) money to support you doesn't work. Being a policy wonk, no exposure to real business life, bright but untested, seems to fit the bill. Just look at this mob. Balls, the Miliband duo, Cooper etc. It's a bit hard to believe they would even have made it in a major consultancy. That shouldn't be too hard, but intellectual arrogance doesn't get you through, unless you have some tough decision making capabilities.

Heroin leads to addiction and eventually tolerance. Don't you think that is the problem with politicians? (Don't care which party they come from.)

There are probably not too many heroin guys in government or senior positions, but quite possibly a few cocaine users - either now or previously.

A bit like dependence on Zen as the solution to life.

Being clever, able or attractive in any way, does not equip anyone to run the country.

Forget the "female", "ethnic", "religious" quotas. Just get a quota for people who have had to make their way in a "real" economy, based on a population's spend of after-tax expenditure.

Good people there, from all sorts of backgrounds. And, if they learnt anything, it should be that you can't spend money that you don't have without a cast-iron proof that it makes sense.

I feel sorry the tories. When they get in they'll be forced to cut back public spending to affordable levels in an attempt to repair Gordon's mess. I can't imagine all the NHS bureaucrats, diversity awareness officers, council jobsworths and other non-jobs created by Labour being very happy about being put on the dole.

Gawd blimey Charles. Where is all this coming from?

I only asked what the difference was between a "fool" and a "wise fool" - I didn't expect War and Peace.

The only Suzuki I know of make motor cycles!

As the chancellors job is such a poisoned chalice perhaps in a reshuffle the post should be given to Milliband. It will be fun watching that one.

I do hope Labour go to the polls earlier rather than later (I am Labour by the way). If this drags on the morale of Labour Party activists will continue to sink.

We can't get rid of Gordon, Gordon isn't going to go - not without an appalling internal row. and even if we get rid of Gordon there is no-one else who looks likely to do the job better.

If Gordon's rescue package is at all successful Labour should go to the country ASAP - possibly in Spring 2009 with the European elections.

Hanging on to the last minute, looking like you are afraid of the opposition and scared to face the electorate will only make things even worse - it didn't do John Major or Jim Callaghan much good.

Wasn't there a line in Macbeth which said somelike ' Better if it were done , it were best done quickly' Even if there wasn't it sounds like good advice.

Go on the front foot Gordon. Show you are the master, not the victim of events (sic) and go out fighting.

A bit like dependence on Zen as the solution to life.

re: 72, RedDelph

I think a more appropriate quote for Zanu-Labour's mindset would be

I am bent to know by worst means the worst. For mine own good all causes shall give way, I am in blood stepped in so far that, should I wade no more, returning were as tedious as go o'er.

Macbeth III.iv

All Ministers (and the Government) should follow the convention of collective responsibility. If Darling doesn't believe Gordon Brown's policies are right or most appropriate then he should resign his post. Whilst there is no actual open admission of this point of view, it is perfectly clear that there is a source of disagreement on the issue.



Darling has openly admitted there is no money left in the kitty for x,y or z which means no fancy vote winning plans such as tax cuts or extra financial help. Similarly, imposing a windfall tax, notwithstanding your view on energy profits, is being heavily resisted by the Government for the simple reason that they can't afford to upgrade the current system and the large companies have told the Government that improvements will have to come from the public purse (of which there isn't any money to pay for) and Labour doesn't want to lose business supporters. The Olympic success means more headaches as funding must increase there - and money can't be quietly cut from the Olympic budget to pay for everything else.

I don't think anyone will challenge Brown - no-one wants the job at the moment. Like John Major in 1992, if Brown wins the next election it will be his greatest defeat.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

From what I can see this a shrewd move by Darling that wrong foots Brown, i.e. if he is now sacked how much more credible, will that make Darling having spoken his mind whilst in office, rather than as a mere backbencher with sour grapes?

What concerns me more is how unfazed the mass media and Joe Public seem to be.

We are facing a financial tzunami the like of which we have not seen since the 1930s.

This is not something that will simply pick up within the next two or three years, this will take decades.

This whole economy is built on straw and will unravel faster than Usain Bolt can run the 100m.

That's the trouble with a consumer-based service economy funded purely by borrowing, what happens when the music stops?

In the months to come we can look forward to mass unemployment with the closure of restaurants, gyms, shops, banks etc. The country will look like a scene from a Clint Eastwood western - bereft of life.

Oh and don't think that things will look any better under the Tories - it is abundantly clear that George Osborne hasn't the foggiest idea what to do.

Will the last one out please turn out the lights...

I am so glad to have you back Nick.. How was your holiday.. it's been a boring summer , not politically charged but rather gloomy and uncertain like the economy. Brown is organizing a comeback, Cameron is desperate to keep playing a statesman, Blair has faded from the news inches, Russia is Uberaggressive.. but America is making history in its own way.
So coming aback to my beloved british politics, i read the interview on the guardian and i can say this is the first time i've ever heard/read anything about darling since i've been following politics...10 years now. He came across as a rather clever man. A bit hesistant on taking the blame for the credit crunch but getting short of pointing fingers in any direction. I like the fact that he is rather new nor old labour. More of a blairite than a brownite, and in fact refusing to label his political ideology. IF brown were too remove him, this will definitely spell and end to his faltering term.
Once more it is really good to have you back Nick, any prediction on the next government direction, do you think situation would have been different with a blair government or would the looming recession be made worse if it were blair rather than brown?

#70 shellingout

LOL - and Yamaha make decent pianos

Welcome back Nick,
You have been sadly missed.
During your absence, I am afraid, that some of the lunatics took over the asylum, whilst the dear old regulars fled in despair. How good it is to see some familiar names blogging away like mad once again, even those with whom I metaphorically crossed swords are a welcome delight. Gradually, many of us gave up writing and a mean spirit. almost a virus crept onto our screens, preaching pure nonsense and dismissing other points of view out of hand. Like an albatross this mean bird snapped away, lodging itself on one's shoulder and refusing to budge.
Even though it's raining, as far as I'm concerned the sun has got its hat on, hip hip hooray, Nick's back!

Brown should go before he destroys the country and the infrastructure. He is determined to run the country with only a handful of civil servants; he has laid siege and is determined to starve them into leaving their posts. A pathetic 2% pay rise supposedly capped at the inflation rate, which strangely is at 5%, will help him achieve his aim. Prudent?? He’s the biggest con-artist ever.