Is Christianity 'under attack'?

There is a kind of institutional racism here.

People are allowed to attack and laugh at christianity, but not at other religions, especially islam.

Treat all religions, including islam, with the disdain and ridicule they deserve, rather than singling out christianity.

It seems so. We see a lot of these reports especially in the tabloids that seems like it is ok for any religion to preach and do or wear what they want but christians are singled out time and time again.

People need to realise that this is a majority christian nation. We have bank holidays to recognise easter and christmas and those people should be able to celebrate it the way they want, and wear any religious symbol of their choosing.

The main problem is that we don't want to risk offending "the muslims" they seem to get all the bad press these days and most of it probably undeserved but what everyone needs to remember is that these christian traditions are a bigger part of our culture than anything else and they need to be upheld and respected. No other country in the world does this. Most other countries go by the opinion that this is our culture and we are proud of it, if you don't like it then you know where the door is.

Having said that I think all religion is a bit... well I mean come on. I personally don't believe in God, just like I don't believe in father christmas and I believe these religious texts to be nothing more than work of fiction. But it certainly does not offend me that people want to celebrate their faith, so why should they not be allowed to in this (once again) majority christian nation.

I agree with The Bloke (1). You only have to look at this site to see there is no religion section and no church news, despite this being a 'christian country'. Compare that with most of the main news sites representing the UK.

All faiths are under 'attack' - it's called reason.

Christianity has long had a persecution complex about this, as if somehow it's being singled out. When you're the biggest and most visible icon of an out-dated superstition then you need to expect more arguments against your ancient dogma and rituals.

I feel discriminated against for being an atheist - I don't get my special events celebrated as a public holiday, I don't have unelected representation in the House of Lords like the Anglican Church does and no one is expected to give my opinions special treatment in case I get offended.

By all means, allow anyone from any religion the right to be outspoken about their faith. But they have to expect that if they do, those who disagree with their beliefs have every right to point, disagree and possibly laugh at their fantastical ideas.

Chritainity is not under attack.

More accurately, it's just that Christianity or religious faith in general is no longer an acceptable excuse or a reasonable justification to be bigoted or prejudicial to others.

This is why we need to live a purely secular society similar to what they have in France or the rest of Northern Europe. For this reason, we should abolish the so-called "conscience clause" that enables health workers from doing the job they were employed to do.

If a persons deeply-held beliefs (whatever they are) makes them unemployable then that is a problem for them (and them alone) and they may wish to re-examine their beliefs, revising or dropping those that are stupid, intolerant or unnecessary.

It is not a problem for society or anyone else anymore than it would be if someone voluntarily joined the army and then refused to fight because of their "pacifist convictions" - it would not be tolerated there and it should be tolerated in any other form of employment.

Either do the job you have been employed to do or make room for those who can.

There is a problem when you can laugh at Christianity and can be critical of Christianity, but you are labelled as racist if you are critical of other religions, namely Islam.

I mean, we have the case of the Christian couple banning a homosexual man from their B&B and they are labelled bigots, but a Muslim man would do the same, but this isn't mentioned. I bet people would not be quick to bring this to court if it was a Muslim hotel owner. What are we for Guy rights? Religious rights of all or religious rights of certain religions. The same could be said of womens rights. There is an outcry as the church will not allow women bishops, but Islam has a terrible record on womens rights and this isn't spoke about. Are we for womens rights or not?

The issue is we do not distribute values evenly..... we condemn Christians for their bigoted ways, but not Muslims. Are we really for guy rights, womens rights or not.

This causes tension as people see rules are not enforced evenly and this has led to Christians feeling victimised. Indeed, at the moment, they are.

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The west is under 'attack' from not just the extreme Islamist but from within by the militant secular atheists. The extreme Islamist sees the atheists both as an abomination but also paradoxically as an ally to their cause. The Christians themselves are partly to blame as many are more like social workers than religous teachers. If steps are not taken to reverse both the rise of extreme Islam and militant atheists the west will implode and the dark days return. The Truth as revealed through the Trinity will always be, fools who refuse to see or turn their back on it will only be in Darkness.

I am not religious, but I come from a Christian background, and I agree with "The Bloke's" point. It seems completely reasonable to joke, vilify, riddicule and otherwise undermine Christianity, like no other religion. Perhaps that is because Christians have become so good at taking it on the chin rather than blowing things up (either figuratively or actually). True religious tollerance needs to come from all - or we need more joke writers!

The BBC certainly seems to enjoy creating forums for people to attack Christianity. What's the current target - at least once a fortnight?

No, Christianity has a bit of a persecution complex & is annoyed because people don't like it/believe in it anymore. They're starting to run out of "members" & are naturally concerned, as any organisation that depends on it's number of followers & it's followers money would be. I think the human race is slowly "Growing out of" religion & for me that's probably a good thing, possibly we are as a race, moving away from old, superstitious ideas & ideals.
There's nothing in any religion that I need in order to be a good person I can do that by myself just fine. I find I just can't buy into ANY belief systems with so little proof, so many contradictions & that has contributed to so many deaths,(& that goes for all of them except, possibly buddhism. Thouigh I'm sure someone will correct me :) ) it just doesn't feel right to me.
That being said I'm a mostly a "live & let live atheist", you don't try & convert me & I won't try & convert you. The shame of it is when religious people assume all atheists hate them. This is simply not true & kinda hurtful. Certainly we may, rightly or wrongly, consider ourselves more "enlightened" & there may even be a bit of pity for those that feel they need a god to believe in but I think this is the same for both sides. I've lost count of the times religious friends or aquaintances have said "I'll pray for you" when they find out I'm an atheist. I could take this as condescending or I could say (as I did when the same people said "god bless you" when I got married) "this person believes they're doing something nice for me" & smile & accept it. I think the sooner ALL religions accept that some people just don't NEED a god & that this doesn't make us grow an extra head, or turn into homicidal maniacs, the better.

I think a lot of religious groups believe their faith is under "attack". The truth is the very same laws designed to prevent preduduce are the ones that perpetuate it, as society has to tiptoe around cultures and beliefs.

Christianity is not under attack, it's being undermined by an increasing diversity of faith meaning it is arguably no longer the number one faith in the UK.

We live in an age of increased life choice and increased education, people are no longer under the yoke of helfire preached on a weekly basis at the pulpit...and christianity too has moved on. Ultimately education teaches us science as well as faith, and people can make the choice.....and increasing numbers make the secular choice.

Christains should waer their faith with pride, but it is a pride best place at home and in church between a person and his god.

It is in fact the fault of the Christian church in Britain that Christianity is treated with contempt by other religions and indeed by British governments. How can the Christian church which supported the great Christian crusades preach one true God yet kow tow to a political dogma claiming to be religious. When we get back to treating Islam as the political threat to freedom and peace that it is, then maybe Christianity will regain some respect.

Carey is right. White Christians are being marginalised, thanks to the bankrupt, miserable, PC-obsessed country Labour created. Look at all the funny vicars on TV. Now imagine a funny Iman. Why aren't you laughing?

Yes it is. If we have children who cannot have a nativity play at Christmas in case others are offended, yet other faiths can be practised openly and festivals celebrated, that is not a level playing field.

This is not about whether anyone should have religious faith. It is defending those who do.

It isn't nice is it? Having persecuted non christians for hundreds of years they are now getting a taste of their own medicine. At least the 'attack' on christians is verbal or legal and they are not being subjected to the punishments they handed out to heretics and infidels in past times. When they stop trying to direct and influence what non christians do and think then there would be no need for those without religion to fight back.

//6. At 11:48am on 01 Dec 2010, popalan wrote:
There is a problem when you can laugh at Christianity and can be critical of Christianity, but you are labelled as racist if you are critical of other religions, namely Islam.

I mean, we have the case of the Christian couple banning a homosexual man from their B&B and they are labelled bigots, but a Muslim man would do the same, but this isn't mentioned. I bet people would not be quick to bring this to court if it was a Muslim hotel owner. What are we for Guy rights? Religious rights of all or religious rights of certain religions. The same could be said of womens rights. There is an outcry as the church will not allow women bishops, but Islam has a terrible record on womens rights and this isn't spoke about. Are we for womens rights or not?

The issue is we do not distribute values evenly..... we condemn Christians for their bigoted ways, but not Muslims. Are we really for guy rights, womens rights or not.//

That's right. Christianity can be criticised, but not islam, in the UK.

I'm really not standing up for christianity here. I just don't see why it can be attacked and its bigotry ridiculed, in a way which would be regarded as 'racist' if applied to islam or other minority religions.

It's not just christianity, either. Anything associated with 'white' Britain or England can be attacked.

But the very real bigotry and other problems in minority cultures are off-limits.

The BBC, for example, will show a programme about bullying in the Army, and claim it's alright because it's fiction. It would NEVER do that about, say, a mosque or a sikh or hindu temple.

Thoroughly agree with The Bloke, #1. Now if only we had that recommend button on here again........

1. At 11:21am on 01 Dec 2010, The Bloke wrote:

People are allowed to attack and laugh at christianity, but not at other religions, especially islam.

Treat all religions, including islam, with the disdain and ridicule they deserve, rather than singling out christianity.

Agree. I feel that Christians are far too 'nice'. If they threatened to kill non-believers like they used to and actually carried out their threats too, as many other religions currently do, then non-believers would be far less likely to ridicule them! It wouldn't change my views of religion, but I certainly wouldn't write about them publicly...

Organizing 'Not Ashamed Days' is a waste of time. Wearing our 'faith with pride' should not be about moaning and groaning about the way we are treated; it should be about demonstrating God's love for the world in the way we put others before ourselves, in the way we treat others as we would like to be treated, in the way we make lives better, more hopeful, in the way we show people they are not alone. We are called to be in the world, not of the world ... salt and light ... making a difference.

Christianity has been 'under attack' since it first began. Christians will always be strangers in a strange land ... Get over it and get on with it!

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No, they are not "under attack". Ask a Jew who lived on Continental Europe in the 1940's what being "under attack" means.

To be honest, if the best they can come up with is a couple of people who decided to ignore their work's "no jewellery" rule (and to reiterate, wearing a cross or crucifix is NOT ordered by the bible, or anyone, anymore than going in to work wearing a Monk's robe is) or an adoption agency that wanted to enact discriminatory and prejudiced viewpoints into their selection process, then they really are not going to get a lot of sympathy. Poor babies.

Most people don't really follow religion, and those that do are split along three or four. Therefore it is not only unfair to impose one as the "dominant" religion, but you will also run the risk of increasing hostility from those who simply want to get on with their lives.

Keep it to yourselves, enjoy it, but don't insist that your beliefs will take any sort of precedent.

No religion should be protected against ridicule, especially the so called "Religion of Peace" and the "Evangelical Right". These out dated superstitions should be shown for what they are. Absolute nonsense with no verifiable evidence. Religion has too much say and too much sway. On the radio this morning I heard about a woman in Pakistan, Christian, being sentenced to death because she insulted the Islamic faith. Also there was a woman executed in a Theocratic Country, Iran. It is women who suffer under these so called laws. I for one abhor Religion for its cruelty, is use and abuse of its followers, Irish priests come to mind. When challenged it falls back on its usual hand wringing claiming that it will change but it never does. All religions are an anathema to the Modern World. They should all be rooted out and exposed for the Conman of Civilization that they are. They promise you heaven if you do as they demand, but I have not heard of anyone confirming this to be true by coming back. If you want to know what there is after you die, I think I can be sure it is Sweet Oblivion.

I agree with Natman #4, atheists are the most discriminated against group.

But in spite of special position that religion has in schools, public life, BBC programming and Parliament, it is nevertheless losing ground. This reflects the, at best irrelevant, but often malignant role that religion has in modern urban life.

Christianity is only under attack if those proffessing their Christian faith are not given the same rights to show their faith than others, so, if Muslims can wear veils, Jews scull caps, Sikhs Kara's and Jedi Knights can carry lightsabres and christians are denied the opportunity to wear a cross then yes their relgion is under attack, however if other faiths can wear the outer manifestations of their faith then they should also be allowed to do so.

Having said that I think an 'Not ashamed' day is a good idea but I think it should be universal and provide an opportunity for the English to tell the Scots and Welsh they are Not Ashamed, Gay's to tell hetrosexuals they are Not Ashamed, the Asuylum seekers to tell bigots they are Not Ashamed etc. etc. etc.

All that being said ofc, you gotta love the way the Beeb stokes up a good religious "debate" (bunfight!). This one'll go boobies up pretty quick.

Cake will be awarded to......
-the first person to bring up the spaghetti monster
_the first person to tell us we're all going to hell
-The first bible quote
-The first quran quote
-The first Harry potter quote

I would do a Cake for the first Ayn Rand quote, but we'll assume ghosts already won that one! So what bun d'ya fancy ghosts? I got victoria sponge, chocolate fudge or pineapple upside down.

No cake will be awarded for Godwins ;)

non practicing christian, but thats my free choice, I dont attend church nor is the fact that I dont attend because I am ashamed. As for a non ashamed day, lets see christians from all churches will march down each community road in a walking day, in a not ashamed stance, each pronouncing which church they attend and how many children follow in the faith, My how important we all are, come and join us, dont be ashamed, you should all attend church like us, we are going to heaven, if you dont attend and pay your dues you cant go, so just in case, come in to our house. The whole thing is based on fear and control.

Is Christianity 'under attack'?

I do hope so. Along with all the other superstitions.

We're a grown up species now, we don't need god or any other kind of fairy.

Also, anyone who thinks you're not allowed to mock the muslims obviously missed Frankie Boyles Tramadol Nights, Iranian loose women sketch. I like my humour edgy, but, man......

I feel that science is under attack.

By religious dogma, introduction of ANY faith schools, homoeopathic medicine, spiritual healing & other fraudulent institutions.

These are based on BLIND faith, as oppose to ration & scientific inquiry.

I would not say that Christianity is under attack specifically - but it is at least more open to criticism, but I do strongly disagree that we as a nation should respect all religious groups.

Many religions advocate child genital mutilation, arranged marriages, enforcement to wear specific clothing, homophobic & sexist viewpoints & openly interference with the education of children via faith schools.

I will not & do not respect these groups.

Christianity is under attack but it is the PC crowd who are causing the problems. All religions want dominance, think they are right and sound as crazy as each other. Athiests and agnostics think all religions are as daft as one another and attack religions on how dangerous, violent and evil they are.

To stop descrimination the concept of free thought must be allowed to say all religions are nuts. But this is where the PC crowd filter offensive comments to make everyone equal. Unfortunately (as it always does) some are more equal than others and the other religions fighting for dominance have made themselves dangerous to attack, while christianity still can be.

Put simply all religions should be equally abusable and the only way to ensure that is to remove the daft PC limitations and rules which end up causing inequality

As a Christian I feel that I am being persecuted from all sides...Other religions especially Islam is permitted to say what they think of Christian Traditions and the way of life and the way Laws are made in this Country, they especially attack this Country's Laws and Lawmaking and state that their ultimate course is to turn Britain into an Islamic Country with their own Koran Laws in particular...but any Christian that goes out of his/her way to place an attack on the Islamic way of life, the Koran and Mohammed in particular...well Danish cartoons spring to mind...prejudice seems to flow only one way and as a Christian I am somewhat disgusted that this is allowed to go on...I have no problems with their Mosques being built and note that in some Islamic Countries that Christian Churches and Bibles are not permitted...I have no problem with their openness at certain festivals...but not to diminish the Christian way of life...if they do not wish to accept Jesus as the Christ...then that is up to them...just as I do not accept Mohammed as a Prophet pertaining to my Faith and Christian Beliefs, but have no problem that they do...
But its not just Islam that is doing this...the rise in Paganism is also there and is as much to blame for the allowed attack on Christian values and this is seen throughout Britain in the positions they take...we see Christian Values being eroded through local by-laws, through adverts on Television, in Newspapers and many Magazines even films, TV Programmes & films erode Christian values on a daily basis...in short the Christian Value of the Family as a whole is being attacked and families persecuted from various directions...at one time I thought when I heard others state this that they are a little mad...now I know the truths they spoke of...

I thinking having a 'not ashamed day' could well be a very nice and positive thing for Christians if couched thusly.

That said, I think if Christians consider their faith under attack they would serve it best by taking the high road and turning the other cheek.

@AuntieLeft


"The extreme Islamist sees the atheists both as an abomination but also paradoxically as an ally to their cause."


Complete and utter rubbish based on absolutely nothing whatsoever.

You obviously are not aware of what is meant by the term "Kufr" and the contempt that is demonstrated to non-believers by Muslims and Christians (and other faiths).

As an atheist, I simply say "a plague on both your houses" and isn't it high time that you all abandoned the evidence-free, man-made myths of illiterate, superstitious goat-herders living in isolated parts of the middle-east during the Late Bronze Age / Dark Ages?

It's under attack across all of the middle east and Asian sub continent. By 2050 under current trends it will have been eradicated from many muslim majority countries such as Pakistan, Iraq, etc and likely to be a minority belief in much of Western Europe.

We have to face facts (no matter what PC politics says), and accept that unless we are more active in defending the belief system that led to our current 'social liberalism', then it will disappear, to be replaced by good old fashioned 7th century fundamentalism, of a kind which will have social / political consequences that none can foresee, but which probably won't be 'liberal'.

It's about time we put Christianity back at the top of UK faiths.
We are a Christian country. Let’s have it back please.

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Whilst I am not a religious person I recognise that this is a Christian country and I have no problem with that.

What I do have a problem with is the PC loonies kowtowing to people from other religions who have come here knowing full well this is a Christian country and then want us to change in case we offend the incomers! Insanity! So even though I am not religious I will be fully supporting this cause.

Cant wait to see if the change of government will be reflected in the number of councils/public bodies sending Christmas cards this year!

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Faith alone, unsupported by objective evidence, must eventually whither as it has no real foundation.

It really is time religions put up or shut up and treating Christianity as a special case has no particular merit.

How can one take seriously people who talk like this?

“The Truth as revealed through the Trinity will always be, fools who refuse to see or turn their back on it will only be in Darkness.”

Such people really are a danger to rational progress and the sooner they are ignored, or ‘airbrushed’ as the BBC describes it, the better.

1. At 11:21am on 01 Dec 2010, The Bloke wrote:

There is a kind of institutional racism here.

People are allowed to attack and laugh at christianity, but not at other religions, especially islam.

Treat all religions, including islam, with the disdain and ridicule they deserve, rather than singling out christianity.

================================================
Agreed, however it's mostly because Christinity is the most prominent religion in this country, and so it's the most open to attack in any case.

But the other problem is that the whole thing is protected by politically correct garbage. If we were to mock Jews as much as Christians for instance, we'd soon be accused of "antisemitism". Mock Muslims and it's "hate speech"! This PC nonsense needs to be got rid of before ANY progress can be made here.

Christianity isn't under attack, it just can't compete with TV.

Christianity has always been "under attack". The bible tells us this.

Today, in the western world, the biggest threat comes from the right wing media who want everyone to worship the God of selfish consumerism, Fashion.

To suggest Christians are "under attack" or persecuted in this country is an insult to all those people in countries such as Burma and China who genuinely are persecuted for their beliefs. It's time Christians realised that they no longer have the right to dictate what others can and can't believe in. If people want to go to church/mosque or whatever then that's entirely up to them but don't try and force your beliefs on everybody else. The sooner we live in a secular society where religion plays no part in education, law making and any other aspect of public life, the better.

All religions, without exception, should be subject to the same level of analysis, criticism and, where appropriate, ridicule and humiliation.

Only Islam and Muslims have sought special "protected status" for themselves.

The Qur'an is claimed to be the "unerrant words of Allah" that apply "for all time and in all places". Plus, of course, it is "above criticism".

The Islamic Prophet Muhammad is claimed to be the "Perfect Man", whose lifestyle should be emulated by Muslims. Despite the many unsavoury aspects of Muhammad's life (as recorded in numerous Islamic historical records), these are "air-brushed" out. Plus, of course, Prophet Muhammad is "above criticism".

Anyone who makes even a minor criticism is immediately attacked as either "racist" or "Islamophobic".

These, of course, ignore the fact that there is no "race" called either "Islam" or "Muslim". In addition, a "phobia" is a "fear or hatred". In view of Islam's historical track record, Islamophobia is a somewhat logical conclusion.

Then there's the hyper-sensitivity to any perceived "offence" and the (often violent) reactions that result therefrom.

"Well-meaning political correctness" in respect of any ideology or religion other than Islam appears to comprise attacking it.

In respect of Islam, "well-meaning political correctnes" appears to mean endless concessions and appeasement.

Yes, Christianity is under attack; however, I say; bring it on!
A Christianity not under attack is a Christianity being ignored, forgotten or already beaten. The fact they need to attack shows they understand that many remain unconvinced by the new orthodoxies.

I am an active Christian, but I have refused to sign this petition or join in in any way - we are called to be Salt to the world, not Sugar!

All religions are under attack from reason.

And for those who say you're not allowed to criticise Islam - Islam, Christianity and Judaism are the most worst things ever to happen to humanity and are responsible for more deaths than Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot combined.

I agree with Natman #4, atheists are the most discriminated against group.

However, in spite of the advantageous position that organised religion has in many areas of public life, it is steadily losing ground.

At one time political leaders in the UK found that it was useful to have alliances with religious leaders, who could help suppress discontent among the masses by their assurances of "the sure and certain hope" of better things after death. This phrase illustrates the lack of logic in religious teaching. Why is something that is supposed to be sure and certain only a hope?

Religion cannot compete with reason. As soon as people start thinking for themselves, instead of accepting the conventional wisdom without question, they realise that reason is a much more reliable guide to living a good life than faith.

Unfortunately, in many other parts of the world, this transformation is yet to happen.

I despise all religions equally but the Christians are right that they seem to have less protection from ridicule than others. When critisising religion in public I also feel "safer" criticising Christianity than other reigions (probably because of the grey overlap between religions and race - not because I dislike Christianity any more).

Christians should acknowledge, though, that it is the CofE (not Islamic nor Hindu nor Sikh) laws that stop me shopping at 9am on a Sunday in the UK. If it's OK to criticise laws and ideas imposed by Labour or Tories based on their dogma, why should I not be allowed to criticise that which is imposed on me by the "native" religious dogma?

Perhaps if the christian fraternity behaved in a christian way people wouldn't be turning their backs on the religion.

Yes, it's under attack. And quite rightly too.

If christians get upset when people laugh at their beliefs, they shouldn't have such funny beliefs.

39. At 12:28pm on 01 Dec 2010, pzero wrote:
ps Rubbish Girl

Can I have a bit of pineapple uside down to warm me up in the frozen north?

--------------------------------
Aw, go on then. Cake in the post to "pzero, the north" might be a bit squished by the time it gets there!
Always makes me feel all fuzzy to warm the cockles of a fellow poster. :)

25. At 12:10pm on 01 Dec 2010, suespeaking wrote:
Christianity is only under attack if those proffessing their Christian faith are not given the same rights to show their faith than others, so, if Muslims can wear veils, Jews scull caps, Sikhs Kara's and Jedi Knights can carry lightsabres and christians are denied the opportunity to wear a cross then yes their relgion is under attack, however if other faiths can wear the outer manifestations of their faith then they should also be allowed to do so.

Don't play the tiny violin of "poor me", you are allowed to wear a cross in the street, in a shop, in your house, in fact in most places, same as other people choosing a particular dress-code or range of jewellery. What you are alluding to is the right to wear jewellery that is not demanded of in your religion as a method of "boasting" about your religious beliefs to others when an office dress-code forbids it. Don't like it, take it off or get another job. Don't try and pretend that no such persecution has occured as severe as that inflicted on poor little you.

Evangelists of any religion are the problem, and that includes atheists. Anybody who is prepared to go to war or kill another human being over religion or agressively seeks to convert non-believers is pouring petrol onto an already overstoked fire.

Worryingly we now have an active atheist campaign which is led not by non-believers but by anti-believers. This makes them no different from the most fanatical followers of any religion. Anyone who believes that bringing up children in the faith of their parents is child abuse, as one leading atheist stated recently, is hardly going to improve understanding between people of different faiths.

Christianity makes an easy target for atheists. It is still viewed as part of the establishment (the Church of England denomination is still the established church in England) and finds it difficult to defend itself without being accused of being politically incorrect. Some of the attacks made against christianity would, more than likely, provoke a more agressive response from some other religions I could mention.

There are still issues worthy of having arguements over but religion isn't one of them. Let the believers believe and let the atheists non-believe; then we can all get on with our lives.

It does appear strange that the BBC usually only put a person's religion in an article if they are muslim (Mr xxx xxxxx, a muslim), whereas anyone else just has their name used without mentioning their religion. This is just one example of how 3rd world religions are being forced down our throats.
Religion should be kept quietly to yourself without it being thrust down our necks either by word or by uniform, arab women being covered in sheets certainly shouldn't be shown on TV.
No-one has seems to have the courage to ask muslim worshippers why they appear to dislike all other religions but will not go and live in a country that practices that particular faith.

It always amuses me that atheists are so "holier-than-thou".

It would be a great advancement for society if all religion was "air-brushed" out. Unfortunately the majority of humanity does not yet seem ready to take this next "evolutionary" (so to speak) step.

Christianity under attack?
IE The number of atheists has grown dramatically over the past decades and Christians no longer have a monopoly on the faith (or lack of) of this country. Atheists then decide to question some of parts of Christianity, and suddenly we are "attacking" it...

Muslims in this country account for 4% of the population. Christians vastly outnumber them. The reason it seems like Christianity is under attack is because they can't attack Islam without resorting to strawman arguments or lies. Any legitimate argument against Islam can also be rallied by atheists against Christianity. And because there are so many more Christians, it seems like the secular side of the nation is attacking them instead of religion in general.

Religions of all kinds are a plague on our species. The sooner the human race grows up and realises we don't need magical sky daddies, cosmic Jewish zombies, or desert goat herders as role models then the world will become a better place.

@Rufus Mcdufus

"Agree. I feel that Christians are far too 'nice'. If they threatened to kill non-believers like they used to and actually carried out their threats too, as many other religions currently do, then non-believers would be far less likely to ridicule them! It wouldn't change my views of religion, but I certainly wouldn't write about them publicly..."


So you think that violence and the threat of violence is something that Christians should aspire to.

Do you want to like in some pre-enlightenment theocracy that does not tolerate any kind of individual or personal freedom?

I believe that there are such countries located in the Middle-East and Asia - make yourself at home.

Why do people have to parade their faith? Why can't they just quietly get on with it? Or is it subtle evangelism?

Post 14 - "Carey is right. White Christians are being marginalised, thanks to the bankrupt, miserable, PC-obsessed country Labour created. Look at all the funny vicars on TV. Now imagine a funny Iman. Why aren't you laughing?"

I'm laughing at such a daft post!

I had Christianity rammed down my throat from a young age. As a school kid, I was made to sing hymns and pray and worship a Christian god. We are constantly told that we owe our culture and society to Christianity. I may not like it but I accept that Christianity has played a big part in shaping both me and the society I live in. As such, it is perfectly reasonable to satirise vicars, nuns and whatever Christian practice you may choose. A joke about a muslim cleric would fall flat on its face - the vast majority of people just wouldn't understand it!

"We have to face facts (no matter what PC politics says), and accept that unless we are more active in defending the belief system that led to our current 'social liberalism', then it will disappear, to be replaced by good old fashioned 7th century fundamentalism, of a kind which will have social / political consequences that none can foresee, but which probably won't be 'liberal'. “

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Religion has done nothing for the UK.

The quality of life has improved here due to the development of science & the power gained on the global stage due to the industrial evolution.

I really do hope the UK abolishes its state religion, as it’s completely undemocratic.

I also hope all child mutilation is banned.

Women who wish to escape oppressive religions are given assistance.

Religions that preach homophobic or sexist tenants are banned from speaking in public on the “hate speech” laws.

All religions in the UK lose there tax free status.

Faith schools are banned.

Let's give people to chance to make up there own minds before indoctrinating them into a specific religion shall we?

If you could reason with a religious person there would be no religion.

All religion should be ridiculed equally, that means being able to take the micky out of Muslims without the fear of being beheaded or prosecuted by the pc police

As to Christians, a cure has been found
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WEmPLjlJ4c

"Is Christianity under attack"? is the HYS question.

This story is based on a planned demonstration headed by Lord Carey outside the House of Lords. Seems fair enough - why not - everyone else has the right to demonstrate.

Don't do religion myself, but do pray from time to time for the safety of my children, in the hope of a higher being, and occassionally say "Thank you God" when something terrible has been averted.

The difficulty with ALL religions are those who behave badly, or in an extreme or fundamental way, under the guise and opt-out clauses they use?

So, I suppose what I'm trying to say is that as a simple human with a vague spirituality - I resent humans who run formalised religions operating today, who are more concerned with their own power and dictats, rather than examining their own arrogance.

I fervently hope so.

I see that even some other Christians are saying that this is a well-financed campaign by a certain section of believers. Poor ickle Christians, 'under attack' only because they will not just SHUT UP and practice their deluded faith quietly, instead of half-running the country, having their propaganda on the radio and tv, and making assumptions for the rest of us. They are ridiculous, hence attract ridicule. And yes, of course, all religions are absurd and just a reflection of the delusion that hoping you won't really die = some religious 'truth'- stop hiding under the 'why don't you attack Islam' argument.

14. At 11:59am on 01 Dec 2010, Edwin Schrodinger wrote:

Carey is right. White Christians are being marginalised, thanks to the bankrupt, miserable, PC-obsessed country Labour created. Look at all the funny vicars on TV. Now imagine a funny Iman. Why aren't you laughing?

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Your argumnent does not stack up. I've heard Jimmy Carr saying he remembers how to pronounce Abu Qatada by saying it to the tune "Have a banana".

Nobody censored him nor complained. You've twisted the truth about TV regulation to defend your viewpoint. No doubt you've been horrified when Carr criticises Christianity...you've remembered it the way it suits you.

And that seems to be the problem with the religious and religion generally: the skewing of reality to fit a dogmatic stance.

The point made above about 'Look at all the funny vicars on TV. Now imagine a funny Imam. Why aren't you laughing?' .... is actually very pertinent.

A total belief by all Muslims in the literalistic nature of the Quran (and to a large extent the hadiths - the life of their prophet), means that they have no humour about their religion, anyone can be denounced (by religious proclamation e.g. Fatwa) and once in place the 'fatwa' can't be removed. Salman Rushdie still lives in fear, and so would any western politician who said anything against the religion of 'submission'.

It's this fear of the consequences, that is behind why we can have criticism of Christianity (often fairly), but total public silence on the grave issues surrounding many other belief & cultural systems. I include other religions such as the Sikhs (remember the attacks on a play for suggesting the 'temples' had some issues?) and Hindu's who still fairly openly practise the apartheid 'caste' system in the UK as well as in India (just look at the marraige adverts) .... 'untouchables' are still just that in many areas.

If you dont come in to our house
terrible things may happen to you
so better come in.
no thanks
my head is my church
my church is god
and I dont worship false idols
just in case.
blessings to you all

by the way millions of men will today believe that because
their ring finger is longer than the index finger has more risk of
prostate cancer.
thats a nice thought implant isnt it?

I wouldn't say that Christianity is under attack by any stretch of the imagination, but if I were to criticise or crack a joke about Christianity or Christians, it would cause far less offence or raise fewer eyebrows than if I were to criticise or crack a similar joke about any of the other major world religions (except possibly scientology but nobody really takes that one seriously anyway). It's only my opinion, and feel free to disagree with me, but from my experiences, Christianity seems to be far more fair game for ridicule than other religions are. Not that I would wish to make fun of Christians any more than Jews, Muslims, Hindus or Sikhs, but I would almost certainly get away with making a joke about Christians. I wouldn't get off so lightly if I made fun of another faith.

Christianity isn't under attack.
Suffering from a world of terminal reason-itis, its simply grumpily dying of old age. What will be will be.

i dont have many problems with christianity as the UK is a christian country.
i may not belive it religon but i do enjoy christmas etc for my own reasons. seeing the family exchanging presents, the food. its just good FUN!

but more and more were told christmas etc offends other religons.
nobody is forcing them to stay here!
but in reality i dont even think most musilms etc are that botherd they have there days we have ours.
its just a bunch of jobsworths who think they are helping but in reality they are creating more prejudice and hate, because indigenous british people them view it as an attack on them (can you blame us?)

I'm sure there's a bit in the bible where Jesus advocates avoiding unnecessary controversy. That is what the majority of Christians do every day.

I am a believer, and I am not some feckless, unthinking, needy drone / zombie as a great many of the people I meet day to day seem to think Christians are. They say patronizing things like,

"Each to their own, but I don't feel I need that in my life. It's nice that some people derive comfort from it."

Those same people drone tirelessly on about their material wealth, but I don't patronize their worship of their deity.

I believe that there IS something beyond, "everything", and I call that thing God.

"31. At 12:16pm on 01 Dec 2010, in_the_uk wrote:
Christianity is under attack but it is the PC crowd who are causing the problems. All religions want dominance, think they are right and sound as crazy as each other. Athiests and agnostics think all religions are as daft as one another and attack religions on how dangerous, violent and evil they are.

To stop descrimination the concept of free thought must be allowed to say all religions are nuts. But this is where the PC crowd filter offensive comments to make everyone equal. Unfortunately (as it always does) some are more equal than others and the other religions fighting for dominance have made themselves dangerous to attack, while christianity still can be.

Put simply all religions should be equally abusable and the only way to ensure that is to remove the daft PC limitations and rules which end up causing inequality"

I have to agree with you here.

There is a reason why a vast majority of our greatest minds (research scientists/PhD students) are atheists.

I think we are evolving as a species and no longer swallow the MAN IN THE SKY schtick that's been used since the dawn of time to supress the peasants. We look at evidence and reason now. This is why many religions feel under attack. As a society I believe it is time to be intolerant of the intolerant and for all it's professing to have Love as its core, I see a lot of bigotry, hipocracy, homophobia and sexism in the implimentation of Christianity.

Lord Carey will launch "Not Ashamed Day"

-------------------------------------------

How frequently will Lord Carey being arranging his NADs (Not Ashamed Days)?

A mixture of Christian paranoia and people waking up to the fact religion is simply superstitious nonsense.

Christianity is always put down in one way or another and the beliefs and values marginalised. Then the athiests etc. howl when bad things happen.

Christian core values of treating people with love and respect are generally beneficial. You could even argue that the laws of this country or are 'made up' by people. So if I decided to reject all faith and laws then did something nasty to you how would you like that?

It's all 'made up' so I can do what I like right?

I just get the feeling some degenerate people don't like things that tell them what to do!

"36. At 12:23pm on 01 Dec 2010, Hugh Haddow wrote:
It's about time we put Christianity back at the top of UK faiths.
We are a Christian country. Let’s have it back please."

No.

If you want to be a practicing Christian, then feel free. Nobody's going to stop you.

However what you want is your life, beliefs and morals forced on the rest of society, and that is something we will not accept.

How would you like it if the UK suddenly declared itself to be a Hindu country and threatened you with arrest if you ate beef? That's how we would feel. Keep it to yourself.

Anyone care to actually provide an example – with evidence – of an incident in the UK where Christians have been specifically and actively persecuted in the last, oh I don’t know, year or so?

‘Specifically’ means that this persecution must be explicitly to do with Christianity – designed to exclude or threaten only Christians. It doesn’t count if a secular law or company policy happens to come into conflict with some tenet of an individual’s faith. Nobody - including the religious, if they thought about it - would want a faith-based legal system (can you imagine the sectarian violence that would result?)

‘Actively’ means that the persecution has to be directed at Christians themselves. It doesn’t count if you’re just passively aware of activities or speech that disagree with your faith. To equate offence with persecution makes a mockery of the word.

So, I’m talking about a specific situation where someone genuinely felt that they would have to conceal their Christianity to avoid a threat or gain access to something from which they would otherwise be excluded.

Anyone? At all?

The UK is nominally a Christian country, it's why we have an Established Church. In practice it is essentially an secular society, which is why other faiths are free to build mosques, synagogues and temples etc and are free to worship and follow the precepts of their faith. The friction points are those areas where cultural traditions and faith are intertwined and are seen to conflict with contemporary cultural mores. In most cases most people(of whatever faith) can arrive at some accomodation.
It's only the literalists and fundamentalists who have a problem, however they tend to shout the loudest.

People are perfectly entitled to 'believe' in any religion or any God they want (and lets face it there are hundreds of versions to choose from) BUT... Seeing as there is absolutely no proof that any of them are right, it's best if people keep it to themselves. The truth is that if ANY version of religion had it right it would be statistically provable and completely impossible to deny that those particular 'believers' get 'their' prayers answered more than anyone else does. If there IS any God, then it's perfectly obvious it doesn't make any difference to him/her what religion you believe in.

Let me quote from “The Outlook for Homo Sapiens” by H.G. Wells:
“Most of our systems of belief rest on rotten foundations, and generally these foundations are made sacred to preserve them from attack. They become dogmas in a sort of holy of holies. It is shockingly uncivil to say ‘But that is nonsense’. The defenders of all dogmatic religions fly into rage and indignation when one touches on the absurdity of their foundations …They will not listen to you until you accept this nonsense … Anything not in their language flows off their minds like water off a duck’s back.”

GEE. GOSH. What a naive question. Considering the hundreds, nay thousands of years that Christianity imposed itself on countries and cultures, creating wars, terror and death among Muslims, Jews and you-name-them, I'd say that resistance to Christians might be plausible. If religions could simply mind their own business and practice the so-called tolerance they preach, we'd all be better off. Wearing something around your neck is sort of like a bumper sticker on your car. What you do is more important than what you wear or say.

Its not just Christianity...
We can have a 'Black police officers' group, not a white one
We can have 'community groups' of Asians, Muslims etc.... try a white Christian group
We can insult 'honkies'
Its virtually impossible to be 'descriminated against' if you are white, middle class and educated... but everyone else is a minority and obviously the subject of much wrong that must be put right
If a coloured kid is bullied at school its reported to the council, if a white kid - with glasses, ginger hair or whatever other genetic difference - is bullied then its just tough luck and a source of amusement for the teachers....


The list goes on and on. Personally I have no problem with the majority of people - whatever colour, race or creed, but I do object to seeing people with placards saying 'stuff your democracy and Islam will rule the world....' being allowed to parade like that while others can't do the opposite....

My comment was removed for further considerstion. I criticised Dawkins, the religion of peace, spoke of Christians being massacred. Said that Marx's Das Kapital is hard to understand without some knowledge of Christianity and Judaism and compared persecution of Christians
today with the Inquisition, where I pointed out that ....oops .. that must have been the problem, as I criticised the religion of peace again. Sorry.

To the BBC Don't hold a discussion on religion if you are so determined to censor it.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

"59. At 12:43pm on 01 Dec 2010, ChaosMagick wrote:

@Rufus Mcdufus

"Agree. I feel that Christians are far too 'nice'. If they threatened to kill non-believers like they used to and actually carried out their threats too, as many other religions currently do, then non-believers would be far less likely to ridicule them! It wouldn't change my views of religion, but I certainly wouldn't write about them publicly..."

-------------------
So you think that violence and the threat of violence is something that Christians should aspire to.

Do you want to like in some pre-enlightenment theocracy that does not tolerate any kind of individual or personal freedom?

I believe that there are such countries located in the Middle-East and Asia - make yourself at home.

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I think it's about time Vicars started teaching their congregations about irony.

Or, failing that, taking a joke :)

This country may notionally be a Christian one but I believe it would be a better place with a complete separation of church and state.

I resent having someone else's superstitions foisted upon me as if they were some immutable truth which one is not allowed to criticise or question.

I resent politicians using their unfounded religious beliefs to justify making unpopular and wrong-headed decisions.

I resent having a head of state that seeks to justify its position on the grounds of divine right from a non-existent mystical being.

By all means, pray to whatever deity you choose in private, but I will not be part of it.

All religions should be under attack - they are all bad for mankind. The trouble is, as others here have already noted, that a combination of fear and political correctness is protecting the non-european religions from criticism. There are plenty of us that regard Islam as an intrinsically evil religion, but we are not allowed to express the opinion - will this posting ever see the light of day? I doubt it!

And, before anyone leaps to the defence that the religion is not evil, it's the application of it - that's rubbish. The religion is mythology and no more good or evil than the fictitious religions in The Lord of the Rings. A religion is defined by the behaviour of its followers.

#76 BaldLea.
First good giggle I've had today. Cheers ;)

3. At 11:41am on 01 Dec 2010, thewiz wrote:
"I agree with The Bloke (1). You only have to look at this site to see there is no religion section and no church news, despite this being a 'christian country'. Compare that with most of the main news sites representing the UK"


You didn't look very far...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/

"54. At 12:39pm on 01 Dec 2010, Worcester Man wrote:
Evangelists of any religion are the problem, and that includes atheists. Anybody who is prepared to go to war or kill another human being over religion or agressively seeks to convert non-believers is pouring petrol onto an already overstoked fire.

Worryingly we now have an active atheist campaign which is led not by non-believers but by anti-believers. This makes them no different from the most fanatical followers of any religion. Anyone who believes that bringing up children in the faith of their parents is child abuse, as one leading atheist stated recently, is hardly going to improve understanding between people of different faiths.

Christianity makes an easy target for atheists. It is still viewed as part of the establishment (the Church of England denomination is still the established church in England) and finds it difficult to defend itself without being accused of being politically incorrect. Some of the attacks made against christianity would, more than likely, provoke a more agressive response from some other religions I could mention.

There are still issues worthy of having arguements over but religion isn't one of them. Let the believers believe and let the atheists non-believe; then we can all get on with our lives."

That’s all good and well.

But religions have perks that they should not in a secular society.

Tax free status?

Religious brainwashing in schools?

On your first point you could not be more wrong, atheism is not a belief - the agreement that religion is detrimental to society which is as you call they "anti-religious" people has no violence associated with them specifically.

Atheists do not kill abuse & indoctrinate like religious groups do.

Oh & in response to the inevitable Hitler/Stalin argument all uneducated religious people attempt to use as a rebuttal.

Hitler was not an atheist, he was a roman catholic.

Stalin was an atheist, but his lust for power had nothing to do with religion - it was not a war against religion – it was a personal desire for power.

If you want to blame Atheism for Stalin, by that logic we can attribute every single murder done in the UK by a Christians to Christianity - but we don't, because that would be stupid. Or you could blame the Catholic Church for Hitler.

Or we could use actual examples like the Crusades?, burning of witches?, burning of heretics?, suicide bombings from the world of Islam?

These are terrible acts done in the NAME of religion.

I'm not religous in any way.

It seems to me that Christianity is under attack as much from within as from anywhere else. All this in fighting about the role of women within the church, defections from one tribe to the other and changes in stance which make little or no serious difference (use of condoms) all serve to display a divided and fragmented organisation which has lost it's way and leadership. I suggest the various christian tribes get their own house in order before they try to lay the blame on someone elses doorstep.

Oh dear, the idea that "Christmas is being banned" is a daft urban myth that gets debunked every year.

Listen, Lord Carey: no-one has banned Christmas. If you want to celebrate it, no-one is stopping you.

Now stop whingeing about something that hasn't happened.

It appears that it is OK to bash christians without fear or reprisals. I must admit some people do bring it on themselves with their pious holier-than-thou attitude & their condesention of those who believe differently. I enjoy a lively debate about my faith & welcome having my view challenged, but there are many of faith that can't handle a challenge to their beliefs.

Quite honestly I don't understand why we can't all just live together as PEOPLE. Too much positive discrimination has been offered to certain sections of society which, in itself, drives divisions. Regardless of faith we are all people & should be subject to the same law of the land.

Is Christianity 'under attack'?

I suppose it depends on what a christian perceives as an 'attack'.

I am a christian and personally I couldn't care less what atheists or others think of my belief in God, therefore I do not see my beliefs as being under attack.

Just out of curiosity however, if we are allowed to make fun of a people based on their religion, why should we not also be allowed to make fun of people based on their sexual orientation or the colour of their skin etc?, fair is fair.

Events like the Danish cartoons or the threat by an American pastor to burn the Koran on the last anniversary of 9/11, shows that perceived attacks on some religions do have serious consequences in the real world.

Mr Max you replied to me saying
"Don't play the tiny violin of "poor me", you are allowed to wear a cross in the street, in a shop, in your house, in fact in most places, same as other people choosing a particular dress-code or range of jewellery. What you are alluding to is the right to wear jewellery that is not demanded of in your religion as a method of "boasting" about your religious beliefs to others when an office dress-code forbids it. Don't like it, take it off or get another job. Don't try and pretend that no such persecution has occured as severe as that inflicted on poor little you.
I did not play the tiny violin of "poor me" but alluded to everyones right to be treated equally. My office dress code does not forbid anyone from expressing their religion and we have a very diverse and intergrated team so please do not take my comments out of context.

It's intersting that whenever there's a HYS about Christianity the aethists feel that it's 'open season' ridcule, treat with disdain the very notion of people having a belief. Surely they should be treated with respect just like you would want to be treated with respect. Christians are labelled bigots and yet Iv'e read more bigotry from aethists on this board than from anywhere else. Aethists talk as if they had a number of conclusive defining facts that proves there's no such thing as deity or as far as Christianity is concerned Jesus Christ. There are no conclusive facts, the theory of evolution often used or abused I can live with it and still have beliefs your non belief is acually your belief. Secularism although pronounced by yourself as the new 'religion' still hasn't shifted 71% in a recent poll in the UK that people do feel this a god but sure form he takes. Whilst this country may drift into non-belief along with the god of materialsm, pride and greed those who don't follow that path should still be respected just as I said earlier aethist's should. Now that would be grown up thinking wouldn't it.

56. At 12:42pm on 01 Dec 2010, oglidewell wrote:

It always amuses me that atheists are so "holier-than-thou".

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Thats probably because they dont have blood on their hands. They are not the supporters of an evil organisation which promotes hate and suffering. And that is against all religions not just christianity