What next for relations between Israel and the UK?

Hopefully we can sell them a couple of Aircraft carries.

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I think it's irrelevant seeing that Israel loves the USA more (for whatever reason).

The UK should prioritise better.

Any foreign government official coming to the UK on official business should not be subject to 'universal jurisdiction'. As for pro-Palistian groups in the UK using British courts for their own gains beggars belief that it can even be suggested. Palistine is not threatened with being 'wiped off the face of the earth' by its neighbours, Palistine is not subject to first strike missile attacks. Palistine has made its own bed and must lie on it, they just represent yet again the Muslim problem of always playing the victim rather than looking at the plank in their own eye.

Big deal.

Contrary to popular belief the UK government has never been terribly fond of the Israeli one. The best you can say is that they're more democratic and less thuggish than most of their neighbours.

Trade between Israel and the UK is minimal. We sell them very little military hardware and politically we'd have an easier life if this whole 'Israeli-Palestinians' issue was officially stamped 'nothing to do with the UK at all'

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Just issue them with diplomatic immunity.

I think the Israeli government has timed this for maximum effect to embarrass the UK.

However, I fail to see what we have in common with Israel and what benefits/ support we receive from them as 'friends' and so would just say 'ok, goodbye' to them. My perception of Israel is that they are extremely arrogant and think they are way more important than they actually are, probably as a result of having the US stood right behind them and never acknowledging they do anything wrong.

Why should we "amend" one of our laws just to please another country?

How embarrassing is Israel's decision to postpone a strategic dialogue with the UK? In what way should the UK react? Should the laws on universal jurisdiction be amended?
.........................................................................
Not at all.
Ignore them.
No.

Why would we want to have dialogue with Israel anyway? The history of Israel is a troubled and complex one but the unstinting support the west (and particularly the US) gives Israel does much to inflame international relations. We would do more for international peace by telling this pariah nation a few home truths and withrawing aid instead of indulging in "strategic dialogue".

2. At 1:27pm on 03 Nov 2010, SystemF wrote:
Israel should cut off all relations with the UK. Due to the left wing and Islamic groups in the UK, this country has become very hostile towards Israel.

Britain really needs to take a long hard look at itself. Allowing the axis of the left wing and Islamic groups to drive wedges between us and our allies in an age old 'divide and conquer' technique, which we're falling for.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Ahh System F, always nice to hear your views! ok so members of Irgun circa 1940's are high ranking members of the current Israeli government, and US government. And Irgun is the terrorist organisation responsible for the deaths of 91 british servicemen in the King David Hotel, so is that the close allie we are talking about? the ones that were formally using terrorism against our soldiers in British "Palestine"???

3. At 1:30pm on 03 Nov 2010, matt-stone wrote:
...citizens of Israel should remember who rescued them extermination by the Nazis. No, unfortunately there were no divine interventions !!


I do. My grandfather who liberated Belsen. Then two years later he suffered serious burns when the Israelis blew him up in the King David Hotel bombing. As a result I'm one Brit who's neither left wing nor pro-Muslim who doesn't like Israel either.

What I find quite amusing in a very black way is Israel's reaction whenever one of their soldiers is kidnapped. This is EXACTLY what the Stern gang used to do to British soldiers. The bluster as Israeli's try to explain how its different is sickening.

Incidentally I don't like the Palestinians either post #5
"Palistine has made its own bed and must lie on it, they just represent yet again the Muslim problem of always playing the victim rather than looking at the plank in their own eye

seems pretty fair.

Cant blame israel. if we are looking to ambush their people then of course they will react to it.

Hopefully the gov will address this and smooth things over with our eastern ally

Just what "strategic dialogue" can there be between Britain and Israel?
-Israeli Ministers can't enter Britain due to fears of getting arrested, and the British Government refuses to alter the "universality" law.
-Offenders who attack Israeli owned stores in Britain are commended by the judges they appear before in court.
-Week after week anti-Israel demonstrations led by Arab so-called Students
from abroad take place in Britain, and the government does nothing about it. The Deputy Israeli Ambassador was attacked by these thugs at Manchester University, yet the police were nowhere to be seen.
-Britain refuses to sell military materiel to Israel.
-Foreign Secretary Hague goes to Israel with the intention of meeting with members of 3 organisations which are opposed to peace with Israel.
Until these matters are cleared up, exactly what is there to have dialogue on?


-

Lol a small story....but worthy of hys. Oh its israel again! Why does one country need so many hys topics? The usual hys fanatics can have a weeks fun of thinly veiled (no pun intended) anti semitism and anti Americanism. As to the actual topic....does it affect a single uk citizen?

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Isn't the term "mischievous arrest warrants" just wonderful? It's like a criminal complaining to the police of the inconvenience of being arrested.

The Israelis should be made to understand that the UK is a land of law and that if they or their government commit crimes considered to be against it, they should be punished in the same manner as everybody else.

6. At 1:34pm on 03 Nov 2010, Peter_Sym wrote:

Big deal.

Contrary to popular belief the UK government has never been terribly fond of the Israeli one. The best you can say is that they're more democratic and less thuggish than most of their neighbours.

Trade between Israel and the UK is minimal. We sell them very little military hardware and politically we'd have an easier life if this whole 'Israeli-Palestinians' issue was officially stamped 'nothing to do with the UK at all'

Israel is a remarkable success story for British exporters.

https://www.ukti.gov.uk/export/countries/asiapacific/neareast/israel.html

Should we care? No. Israel is a small outpost of the US. It is really a failed state as it could not survive economically without the support of the US.

When Israel decides to be honest about the nuclear warheads it has produced then we should look to see if it can be trusted on other issues.

It also needs to sort out the movement towards creating a racist state.

Then lets scrap this law saying military officials from isreal can be arrested in our country, because the "offenses" made are not involved with Britain in anway. War crimes are up to the UN to take action on. Not us.

6. At 1:34pm on 03 Nov 2010, Peter_Sym wrote:
Big deal.

Contrary to popular belief the UK government has never been terribly fond of the Israeli one. The best you can say is that they're more democratic and less thuggish than most of their neighbours.

Trade between Israel and the UK is minimal. We sell them very little military hardware and politically we'd have an easier life if this whole 'Israeli-Palestinians' issue was officially stamped 'nothing to do with the UK at all'

---------------
Totally agree.

I entirely agree with the UK position here. Israel does herself no favours in the long term by antagonising Palestinians and other nations in the Middle East. If she can't behave then perhaps her friends have an obligation to show their disapproval.

"an Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman denied that the latest development was a deliberate "ambush" to humiliate Mr Hague."

Sounds exactly like a deliberate ambush. And this wouldn't be the first time that they've treid to embarass a visiting dignitary. Israel needs to grow up, and learn to respect their friends. Hague should call off all dialogue with Israel full stop, until they issue a full apology.

* UK SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY RELATION WITH ISRAEL .ALL CRIMINALS SHOULD BE ARRESTED AND TRIED .NO BODY IS ABOVE THE LAW.

IRGUN LEGACY HAS TO BE CRUSHED .

It is ludicrous for Britain to fall out with Israel, they are the only thing keeping the mad mullahs of Iran from infecting the whole of the Middle East with Jihaditis. We may very well need them to neutralise Iran and it's nuclear weapon aims before very long. Britain has allowed it's tolerance of Islamic extremism at home to give rise to direct and unrestricted antagonism to Israel's right to security and peace.

The law should remain in place to discourage war criminals from acting with impunity. The uk should not be pressured into changing the law because it is an inconvenience to the israeli regime.

10. At 1:39pm on 03 Nov 2010, JohnSheridan wrote:
Why should we "amend" one of our laws just to please another country?


What do you mean, our laws are made by another country!

Can't we just totally ignore the very minor civil war/ territrial dispute in Israel? It's impossible to solve it, so why give it the acres of coverage currently devoted to it?

Why can't the media focus on other wars and territorial disputes, rather than continally harping on about Israel/ the Palestinians? It's a nothing war with very small numbers of casualties.

Personally, I suspect its prominence is due to the affiliations that reporters and much of the left had in their student days. It's seen as black and white in the way that "difficult" conflicts between tribal groups in Africa *(for instance) are not.

What next for relations between Israel and the UK?

Lets just call it a day.

A brief google search of recent Israli-British relations will show that those relations have been in the toilet for some time.

There has been a stream of anti-British rhetoric coming from Tel Aviv in recent years, hell, they even had a go at when the government of the day dared to question their cloning of British passports for an assassination mission.


The relationship is dead. Time to walk away.

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20. At 1:49pm on 03 Nov 2010, Magi Tatcher wrote:
"

Israel is a remarkable success story for British exporters.

https://www.ukti.gov.uk/export/countries/asiapacific/neareast/israel.html "

£2 billion maybe rising to £3bn by 2015? Peanuts. We could (and DO) make more selling a handful of Eurofighters to Saudi. A British company recently signed a £1.1bn deal to help develop a new port for the Kuwaitis. israeli trade is a drop in the ocean in comparision (although they do grow a nice orange)

It's an indication that we must be doing something right. Israel was very happy to pursue war crimes charges against Germans following the second world war, now it's only fair that they should answer charges if there are cases to be brought against them.

Israel is built on stolen land and we helped in that theft. Now they expect the Palestinians to make peace on the strength of a promise that they may not steal too much more?

So because we in the UK were soft enough to allow a friendly nation's enemy to manipulate our courts to issue what amounts to a political arrest warrant for a "crime" not committed against a UK national or on UK soil, that friendly nation is a bit miffed with us. I must be missing something here because I can understand that friendly nation's point. Ah but the country is called "Israel" and so the chattering classes will automatically condem them no matter what. Taking the longer term view we need Israel on board together with the US (and dare I say the French ?) when we need to devote our efforts in assisting Iran solve its problems.

So what!

The simple fact is that the Islamic population in the UK is growing and in 20 years or so may well be the majority. It is not surprising that relations with Israel have started to deterioate. Politicians look to represent the majority of the population and often say what they think the majority of the population want to hear.

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15. At 1:45pm on 03 Nov 2010, in_the_uk wrote:
Cant blame israel. if we are looking to ambush their people then of course they will react to it.

Hopefully the gov will address this and smooth things over with our eastern ally

----

'Ally'?

Allies support each other, the whole concept is based on quid pro quo.

The only relationship which exists between the UK and Israel is the bit where we pay, via the EU, to rebuild bits of Gaza which they've bombed flat (when the Israelis deign to let the materials through).

All we get in return is verbal abuse and incidents like this latest stub.

As I said, time to walk away and leave them to get on with it.

"5. At 1:33pm on 03 Nov 2010, Mike Hall wrote:
Any foreign government official coming to the UK on official business should not be subject to 'universal jurisdiction'. As for pro-Palistian groups in the UK using British courts for their own gains beggars belief that it can even be suggested. Palistine is not threatened with being 'wiped off the face of the earth' by its neighbours, Palistine is not subject to first strike missile attacks. Palistine has made its own bed and must lie on it, they just represent yet again the Muslim problem of always playing the victim rather than looking at the plank in their own eye."

Yes it is! Palestine is being occupied by a foreign power. Support of israels actions, morally, is more difficult then even suporting suicide bombers attacking them.

If "strategic dialogue" means "Israel buying weapons from BAE Systems" then I suspect the Government will change the law pretty sharpish.
I just thought I'd try to get this remark in before the usual descent into the ill-informed bigotry that is every HYS debate featuring Israel (yeah: why do we have so many anyway? Israel gets more of a look-in on HYS than the debate on British Summer Time!)

*2/

YOUR COMMENTS AMOUNTS TO ATTACK ON MEDIA/ EXPRESSION OF VIEWS .

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26. At 1:55pm on 03 Nov 2010, abraham wrote:
* UK SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY RELATION WITH ISRAEL .ALL CRIMINALS SHOULD BE ARRESTED AND TRIED .NO BODY IS ABOVE THE LAW.

IRGUN LEGACY HAS TO BE CRUSHED .



Methinks your real name is unlikely to be 'abraham'....

Typical that we cannot keep our only friends in the middle east because of some deluded misguided left wing terrorist apologists and our stupid legal and political system that protects terrorists, gives prisoners votes and allows murderers to hide behind, and use, "human rights" laws.

Withdraw from all of these loony left human rights and international criminal law treaties now.

We should not allow extremist Muslims in this country to affect our relations with others.

These court warrants are a joke. We've given Islamic groups all the tools they need to cause us problems. I don't know why we do this to ourselves.

Israeli groups should reply in kind and put in court applications every time an Arab/'palestinian' visits.

26. At 1:55pm on 03 Nov 2010, abraham wrote:

* UK SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY RELATION WITH ISRAEL .ALL CRIMINALS SHOULD BE ARRESTED AND TRIED .NO BODY IS ABOVE THE LAW.

IRGUN LEGACY HAS TO BE CRUSHED .

-------------------

And I was thinking you would support israel with all your heart.

All countries should remember that we are a sovereign state and we pass our own laws (except where it is convenient for our government to pass the buck to Brussels). Officials and residents of all countries are reminded that you do not have to come here but if you do then respect our laws including all those that forbid murder of civilians and conspiracy to make war. In particular Israel and the Palestinians should take note.

The law is stupid as it is encouraging the judges to make their decisions based on political views instead of the law.
Politicizing judiciary is a bad thing.

"The principle of universal jurisdiction says that some alleged crimes are so serious they can be tried anywhere, however the current UK government has promised to amend the laws."

In other words Britain has promised immunity for Israeli diplomats and military figures that have committed internationally recognised war crimes. This government should be tried for abetting terrorism.

"
26. At 1:55pm on 03 Nov 2010, abraham wrote:

* UK SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY RELATION WITH ISRAEL .ALL CRIMINALS SHOULD BE ARRESTED AND TRIED .NO BODY IS ABOVE THE LAW.

IRGUN LEGACY HAS TO BE CRUSHED
"

We should have nothing to do with the whole of the middle east. Roll on the day when oil is obsolete and we can then let the backward countries of the middle east do whatever they want in the sand.

Israel had no qualms about pursuing Nazi War criminals wherever they tried to hide. Neither I nor most other people have any complaint about that.

If Israelis are themselves accused of war crimes, then those charges should be heard. Perhaps it's time they learned that they are not above the law, either.

Is firing Katyushka rockets at civilian targets a war crime? Will we be seeing Palestinians on trial too?

I don't see this as so much of a problem. Separate our need to deal with the small minority of Muslims who are totally off their heads, our need to slavishly follow the USA in their attitude that the Israelis can never ever ever ever do anything wrong is just nonsense.
Both sides in this problem are wrong. Its a pity that international pressure has never been bought to bear evenly between the two - if it had many of the current problems could be avoided.

Is this not against Israels claim they have done nothing wrong?

If they believe they are 100% in the right, and that they havent commited x crime against y or z, like they continuously claim they havent, then why should they care about being took to court?

Surely being 'arrested' and cleared, or having the courts throw out the claims by the palestinians would be good for Israel?

Im surprised the Israeli PR folks havent caught on to how favourable this could be for them.

This hissy fit by Israel will now have the Pro-Palestine folks elated, they can now claim that Israel knows it has done wrong, thus Israeli politicians/military brass fear arrest.

Either way, Im indifferent to the matter; if they want to go as far as cutting all ties with us, so be it. its their choice.

Israel has already defacto amended the laws on International Jurisdiction by unilaterally and repeatedly flouting of International Law.
e.g Israel’s deadly raid on the Gaza aid flotilla, state sponsored murder in Dubai, ignoring all of the 100+ UN resolutions concerning Israel since 1948.
Have they chosen today to announce the postponement ‘strategic dialogue’ as a deliberate "ambush" to humiliate Mr Hague? You bet!
They have a track record for this.
They announced a plan to build a further 1500 new settlements on Palestinian Land in East Jerusalem the day Jo Biden arrived for peace talks earlier this year! What does that tell you?
Israel’s flouting of International Law is nothing new either - its occupation of the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights is a flagrant violation of UN Resolution 242, the construction of the Separation Wall in the West Bank is a breach of International Court of Justice rulings, the Israeli settlements in the West Bank breach UN Resolution 446, while the Israeli-only roads which cut through Palestinian land in the West Bank flout Resolution 465. And these are only a few of the international treaties, resolutions and obligations that Israel violates on a daily basis.

Israel has been accused of War Crimes by the UN’s Goldstone Inquiry into Operation Cast in Gaza which resulted in the deaths of 1,400 Palestinians. Of course they refute the enquiry.
Israel has been treating the Palestinian people like dirt since 1948, and getting away with it. It hasn’t treated its neighbours much better.
The UK has stood idly by, giving tacit support.
Without Peace in the region, the whole situation threatens not only the region, but World peace itself. Only yesterday, Lebanon's Prime Minister Saad Hariri said ‘the Middle East is heading for disaster’ unless comprehensive peace is achieved. This is a moderate man. He cant control Hezbolah.
There was recently a story in Haaretz, a major Israeli newspaper that Mossad has leaked intelligence suggesting a fresh attack on Lebanon. Watch this space….
There is no end to Israel’s aggression.
Israel doesn’t want peace, because if it did, it would have behaved very differently for the past 62 years.
The days of sympathy for Israel due to the tragic reasons which led the Western world to allow it to form in the first place, at the expense of the Palestinians (i.e the Holocaust) are history now.
People are gradually learning about the behaviour of this State, and there is a lot that Israel would rather we didn’t know or discuss! Sadly, sometimes the BBC assists this.
The UK gains nothing from being an ally of Israel, but loses a lot. I welcome the postponement of these talks. It’s a shame the UK didn’t initiate it!
By the way, check out GIYUS, and see how many of their operatives you can spot in this forum. It happens every time!

27. At 1:57pm on 03 Nov 2010, kaybraes wrote:
It is ludicrous for Britain to fall out with Israel, they are the only thing keeping the mad mullahs of Iran from infecting the whole of the Middle East with Jihaditis.

------

Even if it were true, which I dispute, what's it got to do with Britain.

Israel does exactly what they want regardless of the wishes of its allies. Thats absolutely indisputable.

Israel will continue their struggle with the Iranian regime with or without British support and they'll nuke them when they feel like it.

Britain is absolutely irrelevant to every aspect of Israeli policy, so why pretend we have any kind of 'relationship'.

Israel has announced it is postponing "strategic dialogue" with the UK over defence and security issues, as the UK's Foreign Secretary begins an official visit to Israel and the occupied territories.
The UK Foreign Secretary should immediately end his visit.
Israel would have nothing to fear if it had not committed illegal acts (for which ample evidence exists) against pro-Palestinians and Palestinians, including children in Gaza and the West Bank.
The principle of universal jurisdiction says that some alleged crimes are so heinous they can be tried anywhere; however the current UK government has promised to amend the laws.
Why?
Would the Uk Government do this for Russia? How about the United States of America? What makes Israelis crime so untouchable?
Regardless of what an Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman said, this was a deliberate "ambush" to humiliate Mr Hague, and with him all of Britain.
The UK should
- bring Mr. Hague home,
- end its attempt for strategic dialogue with Israel until Israel makes the initiation
- The laws on universal jurisdiction should not be amended.
Crime has been smoothed over for Israel for too long; it does this country no good to get away with atrocity.

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27. At 1:57pm on 03 Nov 2010, kaybraes wrote:

It is ludicrous for Britain to fall out with Israel, they are the only thing keeping the mad mullahs of Iran from infecting the whole of the Middle East with Jihaditis. We may very well need them to neutralise Iran and it's nuclear weapon aims before very long. Britain has allowed it's tolerance of Islamic extremism at home to give rise to direct and unrestricted antagonism to Israel's right to security and peace.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Hmm, now there was me thinking it was Israel asking NATO/the international community to 'stop Iran'.

Suppose we must read different papers!

Israel is simply the middle east brach of the great world terrorist the USA and for however long the USA condones their actions and suports them they will do what they like when they like with no fear of reprisal or sanction from the US controlled UN, learn to live with it!

10. At 1:39pm on 03 Nov 2010, JohnSheridan wrote:
Why should we "amend" one of our laws ?

So why are the British public always complaining about laws being passed onto the UK from EU Headquarters in Brussels?
Do I need to remind you - Prisoners getting the vote, etc.

The Israelis believe they are the Master Race and a law unto themselves. That explains why the land grab in the West Bank. They ignore all UN Resolutions(with the connivance of their American friends) and commit international crimes and do not expect to be taken to court for them,....note, the recent murder of a Palestinian in a hotel in an UAE country... and what did Britain do about the forged British Passport used by the Iraelis??...absolutely nothing. I mean, what can we do?... they probably have more nuclear warheads than us. Besides Uncle Sam is watching us closely, any false move and we get it in the....???

2. At 1:27pm on 03 Nov 2010, SystemF wrote:
The BBC's website can't go a day without criticising Israel and neither can the likes of the Guardian
------------------------

You really have got a problem, I haven't seen all this anti Israeli rhetoric you seem to have detected. On the contrary, Israel was treated with kid gloves after the War as Europe and US seemed to feel they needed to feel guilty after the Holocaust. It was crazy to allow Israel to posess nuclear weapons,being in the geographical position they are, we make a fuss about Iran doing the same
Many Israelis were not born in that country, they have emigrated there and yet they take land from others who have lived there for centuries. We would object if any other nation took land and made the inhabitants homeless. These displaced people are seeking international justice. What's wrong with that, are the Israeli's trying to threaten the legal system. What have they got to hide, if what they are doing is right let's see what international law has to say about it. If it was the other way round you could bet they would have evoked world support many years ago. Settling any such problem is far better done through law rather than war

"23. At 1:51pm on 03 Nov 2010, PompeyOops wrote:
6. At 1:34pm on 03 Nov 2010, Peter_Sym wrote:
Big deal.

Contrary to popular belief the UK government has never been terribly fond of the Israeli one. The best you can say is that they're more democratic and less thuggish than most of their neighbours.

Trade between Israel and the UK is minimal. We sell them very little military hardware and politically we'd have an easier life if this whole 'Israeli-Palestinians' issue was officially stamped 'nothing to do with the UK at all'

---------------
Totally agree."

I'm sorry but that simply isn't true. The UK government nearly went to war along with israel during the suez canal crisis. The UK government also supplies israel with much of its military hardware.

As for suggesting israel is less thuggish than its neighbours, i really don't understand how you came to that conclusion.

How many countries bordering israel are currently occupying someone? NONE.

Israel has been brutally occupying palestine since its inception. It constantly attacks its neghbours without reasonable provocation and it even low flys aircraft over gaza to create sonic booms to cause women to mis carry their babies in an attempt to stop the arabs from out breeding the israelies.

Israel breaks international law with inpunity and has no regard for human rights. It is also still knocking down peoples homes in a soverieng country to allow its own ethnically pure citizens to live there.

As I understand it, any foreign government official coming to the UK on official business is not subject to 'universal jurisdiction' as they have diplomatic immunity.

For example, when the Pope visited, it was made clear to activists that he had been accorded immunity.

As an example that falls outside this, when Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni arranged to visit the UK and the arrest warrant was issued, she was visiting in a private capacity and therefore was not covered by immunity.

I do find it astonishing that the HMG solution to this situation is to ignore the alleged cause and simply remove the threat of accountability. Surely the correct way to deal with this is to promptly hold a trial to establish guilt or innocence? Supporter of Israel or not, there certainly appears to be a case for Israeli ministers, ex-ministers and senior military personnel to answer and we should be requiring them to do so.

- Mike

The truth often hurts.

Israel has, for decades, pursued war criminals, leaving no stone unturned.

Now the shoe is on the other foot and many Israelis are alleged to have committed war crimes and Israel is running scared.

The truth will always out. You can run but you can't hide. If those Israelis have nothing to fear then why are they running scared?

But let's not forget that this is all political theatre. Our very own Foreign Secretary is a member of Conservative Friends of Israel. The former Foreign Secretary under Labour was a member of Labour Friends of Israel.

Like the American government, the British government ultimately answers to its masters in Tel Aviv.

It's only when you know wrong has been done would you consider changing the law to allow alleged war criminals to escape justice in the UK. Tel Aviv has spoken and David Cameron has his orders.

Fine, if Israel wany to have a little tantrum let them, its not going to make any difference to us. The simple fact is that middle eastern countries are all as bad as each other, can't go five minutes without someone getting killed, we don't need friends like that. That goes for the palestinians as well, you've made your bed, now lie in it and stop playing the victim all the time, its unbecoming.

37. At 2:08pm on 03 Nov 2010, Taxesshouldbelower wrote:
The simple fact is that the Islamic population in the UK is growing and in 20 years or so may well be the majority.

----

If everybody else in the country stops breeding and dies maybe.

Perhaps Israeli groups ought to arrest any British politicians that voted for the Iraq war, as well as any soldiers that took part. Hague voted for the Iraq war, didn't he?

I believe he should be in an Israeli jail then, awaiting his sentence.

After all, travelling thousands of miles away to invade a country that never attacked us is quite a crime in most people's book.

--------------

mab981 wrote:

It's an indication that we must be doing something right. Israel was very happy to pursue war crimes charges against Germans following the second world war, now it's only fair that they should answer charges if there are cases to be brought against

This may be a good thing in the long term. It seems the Republicans are on the up in the US and if they win in 2012, there are going to be a lot of countries who have to re-think their relationship with the US, fearing a repeat of Bush's catastophic tenure. Israel will be even more assured that thier actions will not be critisised in any way by the US and my feeling is that the UK should be at the forefront of highlighting and challenging the excesses of this rough state.

32. At 2:04pm on 03 Nov 2010, abraham wrote:

"*13/
WELL SAID .IRGUN LEGACY IS THE CRUX OF THE PROBLEM ,IT HAS TO BE CRUSHED . TO CRUSH THIS LEGACY ,WORLD SHOULD BOYCOTT ISRAEL /ITS GOODS AND SERVICES."

What Irgun legacy? The Irgun ceased to exist over sixty years ago. The universal jurisdiction law is just one that is manipulated by cynical people with nothing better to do than to waste time, money and resources by taking advantage of the legal system. The likelihood of a successful prosecution is, in any case, extremely slim, so all it succeeds in doing is damaging our own credibility. How are our ministers supposed to work with foreign counterparts of any nation if anybody who tries to visit risks getting arrested as soon as they step off the plane?

*/ 27,

VERY FOUNDATION OF ISRAEL IS BASED ON IRGUN'S POLICY AND ITS LEGACY.

DO YOU WANT - IRGUN'S TERROR POLICY TO CONTINUE?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

After the US, Israel is probably the biggest threat to world peace. The looser our ties with both of those countries, the better for the UK.

HYS - "How embarrassing is Israel's decision to postpone a strategic dialogue with the UK?":

Not surprising really is it? - I am POSITIVE that in the same circumstances - the UK - and any other realistic Nation/State would do the same.

IN MY OPINION:
Our previous Government pandered FAR too much to the pressure from those 'interested' immigrants, civil-rights and PC-'pinkies', allowed into the UK under Labours 'open-door' policy. And this is the result - long-time Allies losing faith in the UK - just as those 'interested-parties' planned...

I agree with Israel and expect our Government to remedy this attack from those 'interested' fifth-columnists...

35. At 2:05pm on 03 Nov 2010, SPEEDTHRILLS wrote:
So because we in the UK were soft enough to allow a friendly nation's enemy to manipulate our courts to issue what amounts to a political arrest warrant for a "crime" not committed against a UK national or on UK soil, that friendly nation is a bit miffed with us. I must be missing something here because I can understand that friendly nation's point. Ah but the country is called "Israel" and so the chattering classes will automatically condem them no matter what. Taking the longer term view we need Israel on board together with the US (and dare I say the French ?) when we need to devote our efforts in assisting Iran solve its problems.

-------------

This would be the same friendly nation that stole other friendly nations citizens identities to commit an extra judical excution in another country. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm nice friends.

The principle of "universal jurisdiction" is a trumped-up legal concept used for propaganda purposes by various political groups to attack their enemies. It has nothing to do with the ICC and its legitimate prosecution of international crimes.

I cant be the only Englishman that is about fed up with foriegn nationals telling us what laws we should impliment in this country If Isreal is in fear of being taken to court over her actions towards the Palestinians or any other people they have a greivence against then dont do the things you do Just because america does it doesnt mean you can
This is England , We are Englishmen these are our English laws Dont tell us to change them because YOU object
With Isreals history of persecution over the last 100 years I have no sympathy with the way Isreal is persecuting another human race. Isreal of all people should know better.

44. At 2:16pm on 03 Nov 2010, Peter_Sym wrote:
26. At 1:55pm on 03 Nov 2010, abraham wrote:
* UK SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY RELATION WITH ISRAEL .ALL CRIMINALS SHOULD BE ARRESTED AND TRIED .NO BODY IS ABOVE THE LAW.

IRGUN LEGACY HAS TO BE CRUSHED .



Methinks your real name is unlikely to be 'abraham'....

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Uncharcteristic slip up there Peter.

Of course it depends how you translate the Arabic and 'Ibrahim' is far more common but there are Muslims who spell their name Abraham, and why not, as I'm sure you know Christianity, Judaism and Islam used to be collectively called the 'Abrahamic' religons.

45. At 2:18pm on 03 Nov 2010, Graham wrote:
Typical that we cannot keep our only friends in the middle east because of some deluded misguided left wing terrorist apologists and our stupid legal and political system that protects terrorists, gives prisoners votes and allows murderers to hide behind, and use, "human rights" laws.

Withdraw from all of these loony left human rights and international criminal law treaties now.

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Would that be like Germany in the 30's & 40's. No silly "human rights" laws to worry about at that time. Silly man, think before you rant.

Based on the way Israel behaves and treats others, the further away from the UK they move the better.

I do not want to be associated with them and their politics.

Israel needs to stop being part of the problem and start to become part of the solution. Their rhetoric (history) no longer carries any weight. They treat all non-Israeli laws and citizens with contempt. Remind me again how many UN resolutions have been ognored by them?

What are we bothering with Israel for anyway, they could not give a monkeys for anyone else, and they are more trouble than they are worth to the UK - It is time to cut them loose.

46. At 2:19pm on 03 Nov 2010, Sykes wrote:
We should not allow extremist Muslims in this country to affect our relations with others.

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This has got nothing to do with extreemist muslims in the UK.

UK/Israeli relations broke down years ago, the idea that we have any kind of influence with the Israeli government is just a bad joke, yet another example of successive British governments trying to pretend that we are still some kind of world power.

They only thing they want from Britain is the money they recieve from us, via the EU and quite frankly they don't even need that.

It's long overdue that countries should stand upto Israel.Israel thinks it can do as it likes and nobody should give a damn or criticise it.We hardly trade at all with Israel, so why should we worry about relations breaking down with Israel.The only reason that our politicians worry about Israel is because the jewish politicians and jewish business people put a lot of money into both conservative and labour party coffers so that either partys do not criticise when Israel breaks and ignores UN resolutions in case the money stops being put into party coffers.Its about time we let go of Israel.Israel can go it alone with only the USA to support it.

38. At 2:09pm on 03 Nov 2010, SystemF wrote:

....Perhaps your grandfather was the one who replied "we don't take orders from Jews" when the multiple phone warnings about the bombs in the Hotel were made.

The Brits of course used a section of the hotel as their military HQ from where they carried out their anti-Jewish activities.

I used to support Israel, given the above comment which clearly supports Israelis murdering British Servicemen We've obviously picked the wrong people to have as friends, if thats Israels attitude then not only should we be arresting any Israeli officials in Britan, we should break off diplomatic relations and give military aid to palestinians and Iran.

60. At 2:46pm on 03 Nov 2010, ralphinrishon wrote:
10. At 1:39pm on 03 Nov 2010, JohnSheridan wrote:
Why should we "amend" one of our laws ?

So why are the British public always complaining about laws being passed onto the UK from EU Headquarters in Brussels?
Do I need to remind you - Prisoners getting the vote, etc
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For crying out load, we have ex prisoner sitting in the house of lords.

62. At 2:47pm on 03 Nov 2010, Lucy Clake wrote:

"You really have got a problem, I haven't seen all this anti Israeli rhetoric you seem to have detected. On the contrary, Israel was treated with kid gloves after the War as Europe and US seemed to feel they needed to feel guilty after the Holocaust. It was crazy to allow Israel to posess nuclear weapons,being in the geographical position they are, we make a fuss about Iran doing the same
Many Israelis were not born in that country, they have emigrated there and yet they take land from others who have lived there for centuries. We would object if any other nation took land and made the inhabitants homeless. These displaced people are seeking international justice. What's wrong with that, are the Israeli's trying to threaten the legal system. What have they got to hide, if what they are doing is right let's see what international law has to say about it. If it was the other way round you could bet they would have evoked world support many years ago. Settling any such problem is far better done through law rather than war"

In fact, the vast majority of Jewish Israels were indeed born in Israel. As of 2006, 68% of Israeli Jews were Israeli-born, most of these second or third generation. You've said they took land from people that had lived there for centuries when in fact even Arabs have immigrated into the area in the early 20th century, just like Jews did. The Arab immigration rate into Palestine was much higher than that of Jewish immigration. As for your final point: "Settling any such problem is far better done through law rather than war." I agree with that in principle but it's rather a shame that Arab leaders did not feel the same way. If they hadn't attacked Israel back in 1948, and if Arab leaders hadn't called for attacks on Jews in Palestine prior to Israel's founding, we wouldn't have had all the subsequent years of bloodshed.

War criminals are not welcome here. I like it this way. Perhaps Isreal should send someone else.

I hope we cease all dialogue. I find it incredible that a people who have suffered such intimidation and violence at the hands of Hitler should adopts such an uncompromising policy towards the indigenous arab population that they have displaced.

65. At 2:59pm on 03 Nov 2010, Wu Shu wrote:

"Like the American government, the British government ultimately answers to its masters in Tel Aviv.

It's only when you know wrong has been done would you consider changing the law to allow alleged war criminals to escape justice in the UK. Tel Aviv has spoken and David Cameron has his orders."

The Knesset (Israeli parliament, you know, where all the laws are made) is in Jerusalem, so the British government, according to you, anyway, ultimately answers to its masters in Jerusalem.

Would you have a problem if supporters of Israel abused and manipulated our legal system to get Palestinian or Arab visitors arrested for even the remotest or tenuous links to an alleged war crime that didn't take place on British soil or involve Britain in any way whatsoever? I think you would be the first to complain if that were the case.

Jews/Israelis quite rightly pursued WW2 war criminals for 60 odd years. If no war crimes have been committed in Israel then those persons accused of them should come freely to the UK and stand trial in order to give evidence of their innocence. Nobody is above the law. Trying to bully our puppet politicians into changing the law just reeks of guilt and fear. Otherwise they will be looking over their shoulders for the next 60 years. There is no statute of limitations on the kind of crimes against humanity which have been committed in Israel, Gaza and Lebanon.
As for strategic dialogue Britain should just end it. We can't afford to associate ourselves with the sort of people who will fire white phosphorus at schools and hospitals, murder unarmed peace activists, or put a million cluster bombs onto Lebanese farmland because they'd just got a kicking from the locals.

Perhaps the Israelis should consider employing negotiators who do not have outstanding allegations of war crimes or human rights violations against them. Then they need not fear them being brought to answer any such allegations when they travel overseas about their business.

I don't see that it will make much difference whether our Government talks bilaterally to the Israeli one or not. If they don't like what we say they'll ignore it anyway, so what's the point? Both sides might as well save the money on air fares, accommodation and conference costs.
The circumstances in which the decision seems to have been made don't seem to have much to do with winning new friends and influencing people in Britain, either.
We've more important things to occupy our time.

The holocaust, Cambodia, Rwanda, etc are war crimes, protecting your country from rockets fired from a country were the residents democratically elected a terrorist government is not a war crime. The Palestinians would get sympathy from the west, other than British and Irish deluded leftist troublemakers, if they got rid of HAMAS. They, by voting for HAMAS, should also face war crimes.

42. At 2:11pm on 03 Nov 2010, abraham wrote:
*2/

YOUR COMMENTS AMOUNTS TO ATTACK ON MEDIA/ EXPRESSION OF VIEWS .
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Having read comment #2

What you are saying and evidently unhappy with is that any form of critique of those who are openly hostile toward the Jewish peoples (Islam and the Left-wing) is not in itself freedom of expression, but an attack on freedom of expression and the media.

That’s some insidious thinking you have going on and to my mind symptomatic of the "witch hunt" mentality that seeks to have any form of criticism of the left-wing or Islam portrayed as xenophobia or racism.

I find your comment to be utterly offensive in this case....

Last time I checked the news, Israel had not crashed airplanes into our buildings or blown up our trains.

Here we go again. Everyone expected to bow before Israel. The world knows they used excessive force against the Palestinians and have done so for the past 60 years. They have never kept a single UN resolution, and now they expect that we should ignore the possibility of their government officials and ministers committing war crimes.

Of course, they take after their paymasters, the USA in this respect. They will prosecute anyone who offends them, but the world must opt say anything against them.

Haige should have jumped on the first plane back after the announcement was made and told the Israelites to get lost.

But we won't. We'll doff our caps, touch our forelocks and grovel at the feet of this terrorist nation.

By the way, I am not necessarily pro Palestinian. They are as much to blame for the present situation. But they aren't occupying Israel and treating them badly.

75. At 3:16pm on 03 Nov 2010, PompeyOops wrote:
35. At 2:05pm on 03 Nov 2010, SPEEDTHRILLS wrote:
So because we in the UK were soft enough to allow a friendly nation's enemy to manipulate our courts to issue what amounts to a political arrest warrant for a "crime" not committed against a UK national or on UK soil, that friendly nation is a bit miffed with us. I must be missing something here because I can understand that friendly nation's point. Ah but the country is called "Israel" and so the chattering classes will automatically condem them no matter what. Taking the longer term view we need Israel on board together with the US (and dare I say the French ?) when we need to devote our efforts in assisting Iran solve its problems.

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This would be the same friendly nation that stole other friendly nations citizens identities to commit an extra judical excution in another country. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm nice friends.

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I wish we would adopt Israels policies - the last good thing we did was the SAS getting the IRA in Gibraltar.

Well IF the Israelis were not breaking international law there would not be any issues! Blaming us for having a decent justice system is a bit surreal - if folk engage in criminal activity that contravenes international law and UK law - Are we supposed to provide them with immunity just because they demand it? I guess we could change our legal system to incorporate such a concept - but I think the consequences might prove untenable!

Israel has seemed intransigent for years over the disputed areas of its settlements in the West Bank - several of which have been declared as illegal. That said, one can understand their very serious concerns about the hostility from the Palestinians and other Arab states sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. Peaceful co-existence is the only solution and Palestine should concentrate on rebuilding its shattered infrastructure rather than continue fighting over the disputed boundaries.

I wish this country would just ignore Israel.
Then I'll wish for every other country to ignore Israel.

Personally, I think the rest-of-the-world should wall off the entire country of Israel to stop anyone getting in or out. At least for the time they have their own country divided by walls. Disconnect internet and communications and create a real isolated country.


When a muslim commits an act of terrorism, the western world screams "Why aren't you muslims denouncing such acts???". Yet, when a western nation becomes a rogue state run by an apartheid government, no-one does a thing about it!!