Do the cuts go far enough?

Two things fit together: welfare cuts will lead to outsourcing jobs done by council employees; and who will do these jobs? Watch out for illegal immigrants employed more cheaply than existing council workers. Illegal? Yes. Until they are caught and replaced by other illegals. Can't anyone see the direction of the austerity scam?

Yes, the cuts have gone far enough to earn Mr Osbourne a place in history as the most misguided Chancellor ever.

A generation of school leavers will be denied the chance of developing their economic potential. A tragic loss for them and a serious loss for the UK economy.

I expect we'll get posts saying "No. They do not hurt people I hate enough".

id like to thank the previous 2+ generations for screwing up alot of peoples chances for a high quality of life from everybody 25 and under THANK YOU!

your attitude of its not my problem,and thinking you should get easy money etc, you were warned you didnt care and now were screwed i hope we remember this and in 10-20 years i hope we stop your pensions and winter fuels allowence and give them to us and the new generations, bet you will care then

im 23 i have had 0 say on what has happend to this country for 20 years
the current situation was not cause by my generation you voted the gorverments in you let them take everything you watched and did nothing as they opend the gates to the world with open arms, you let them make it possible to literally work us to death.

look at the french tell them there retirement is not 60 but now 62 and all hell lets lose cheers for being a bunch of lazy, selfish well i cant put the next few words.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

The one big cut he missed was to cut the number of loopholes used by wealthy tax dodgers. Why on earth was that I wonder?

In some area in the UK the cuts do try to create a balance between the public and private sectors . unfortunately in Wales where 57% of the workforce are in the Publics sector ,the cute will not address the imbalance between the public and private sectors . Unless it is balanced more and more Real jobs will be lost. and less inward investment will occur.
Wales has too many Layers of government .. The question is does it need so many county councils ...To abolish or merge council would save Billions in Wales... That should be done sooner that later Else Wales WILL once again lag behind the rest of the UK .... THAT is unfair on the Welsh people

Re comment 1

Local councils are deliberately using outside contractors who employ illegal immigrants. They then hold up their hands in shock and horror when the contractor is found out. The law should be extended to cover councillors and council executives for aiding and abetting illegal employment.
Whilst we are on the subject of councils - how about councillors taking a 10% cut in expenses rates to help fairness.
Thought not

Civil war beckons

The Tories had a chance to correct the problem's caused by mad cap Labour policies. They've chosen the simple "solution" of firing people rather addressing the real reasons why we're in a mess. Shame on them.

Do the cuts go far enough? Oh yes, the effect should ensure what will amount to a civil war in most of our cities within the next couple of years.

Take to the Streets and strike, strike, strike. Bring the Tories down now!!!!!

2. At 12:51pm on 21 Oct 2010, stanblogger wrote:
Yes, the cuts have gone far enough to earn Mr Osbourne a place in history as the most misguided Chancellor ever.

=================

If it wasn't for the last chancellor there wouldn't need to be any cuts. So how misguided was that one?

Dr Llareggub wrote:

Two things fit together: welfare cuts will lead to outsourcing jobs done by council employees; and who will do these jobs? Watch out for illegal immigrants employed more cheaply than existing council workers. Illegal? Yes. Until they are caught and replaced by other illegals. Can't anyone see the direction of the austerity scam?
************************************************
If this country concentrated more adjusting a system that creates a tier of mega-rich and comfortably-off people who were still receiving benefits such as child allowance and state pensions, we would have to worry less about *illegals* and there would be more money for those at the bottom of society. These people are often provided with work, at appallingly low wages, by the very ones who are allowed to milk the state's welfare provisions. It is the government, the banks and businesses that are crippling the poor in the UK, not the immigrants - don't be fooled by the gutter press!

They go far enough for Osborne to claim to be the heir to Thatcher! His inane faith in the private sector to replace the jobs lost shows his lack of ability. The baying hounds who were egging him on yesterday may well howl a different tune when the next 'winter of discontent' happens with no Labour Government to blame. His regressive economics and his cuts will be praised to the skies by the usual crown on this thread- they're just like people who demand the death penalty for other people until it ism passed on one of their own. Perhaps when their businesses start to experience 15% interest rates and double figure inflation as they did under earlier Tory governments, they too will sing ma different tune. Osborne is a cliché but even a clichéd given substance can be dangerous.

Do the cuts go far enough? Well that depends. How many times would you stab someone before you are sure they`re dead.

I expected no differently. members of the public constantly took out loans which they couldn't pay back and now members of the public are complaining because they have to tighten their belts. I wouldn't mind but there is a generation gap becoming very apparent between the generation of guilty embezzeling public and the new blood who is now having to carry this burden. Fact is, even though the banks were irrisponsible for buying and selling high risk low return loans, who was it who took the loans out in the first place??? the public (notice how I didn't say 'us', well thats because it wasn't 'us' in my case... it was 'our parents') there is only one fair part to this new budget and thats increasing the retirement age. lazy adults who wanted it all now has to work an extra year to pay it off.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Gerry Adams says the cuts are unnacceptable hey? So it's the usual rubbish. What, does he expect special treatment for Northern Ireland becuase it has a violent past? Are they trying to hold the government in some kind of perverse ransom (more cash for us or we will incite instability)? This would be an opportunity for the NI political community to stand up and show that it is prepared to shoulder the same burdens as the rest of the nations from the union instead of always having a pathetic victim mentality. We all have to take the pain. Be mature and plan how best to deal with it like everyone else.

Apparantly he finds it arrogant that the Chancellor has made the cuts becuase he's not from NI? Well he isn't from the north of Engalnd either, or Scotland, or Wales. And where do you stop? Until we have decision on a street by street basis. I really thought the republicans had grown beyond this kind of petty tribalism, based on and accent. It could be a lot worse economically lads, you could be part of the Republic.

"
8. At 1:13pm on 21 Oct 2010, Bob wrote:

Whilst we are on the subject of councils - how about councillors taking a 10% cut in expenses rates to help fairness.
"

Nice idea, but you need to remember local councillors are even more corrupt than members of the house of commons and the house of lords.

"Fairness" - my backside!

What would be fair is that the Banks and Bankers are forced to pay much, much higher along with the grotesque Labour party.

When I see these individuals stripped of their assets, bank accounts and their overseas properties and yachts then I beleive fairness and recourse has been fairly served.

That is what is FAIR, Mr Osborne - not protecting your friends in high places and making the masses pay yet again for the greed and mistakes of the wealthy while these vile individuals continue unchalleged to earn huge bonuses, buy assets in falling markets, earn huge salaries and protected and enhanced gold-plated pensions.

What is happening is NOT fair, it is a continuation of corruption by the ruling elite.

"
10. At 1:16pm on 21 Oct 2010, Cobbett_Rides_Again wrote:

Do the cuts go far enough? Oh yes, the effect should ensure what will amount to a civil war in most of our cities within the next couple of years.
"

Well at least that would mean we'd be able to bring our Troops back from Afghanistan.

The cuts are all wrong and not radical enough at all.
Welfare should be cut to a single payment made to every legal adult which will ensure you don't starve. This will prevent the sort of perverse incentives to go and breed in order to increase your benefit income (after all the world doesn't need more babies and as a country we don't need more babies born into relative poverty).
Tax should be a single flat rate on all income (from whatever source) for everyone resident in the UK for more than 2 weeks (to avoid confusion you need to be away from the UK for a month to reset the counter). There is no need for any 'allowances' because the single welfare payment means no one is starving.

These two will be simple and cheap to implement and difficult to defraud. This will instantly dispose of all these tax evading peers.

All other taxes and charges (BBC licence fee, car tax, council tax, council carpark and sports centre charges, NHS prescription and carpark charges) to be scrapped.

We need also to put in place caps on excesses - no person in any group of companies is to be paid more than 10x the amount of the lowest paid in the group of companies.... thus a bank boss will not take home ridiculous amounts of money while exploiting child labour in offshore call centres).

No one in any tax payer funded position to be paid more than 5x the national average income (thus it becomes reasonable to try and improve everyones standard of living).

Government spending to be exclusively in the UK on UK produced products and services, nothing, nothing at all ever to be bought abroad again using tax payers money. That means we will have to remember how we managed to produce fighter and bomber aircraft that were the best in the world, how we built the best fighting ships and top quality tanks... we did it once and it certainly is possible again. We are the ONLY country of any economic size where the government spends more on imported goods than it does on domestic goods.

Do the cut's go far enough?
Well they will go far enough to put many out of work permanently.
They will be the start of the hiving off of the NHS to the private sector, chunk by juicy chunk.
Anything else that our Lords and Masters decide in their millionaire wisdom will be passed on to the lowest common denominator.
Still a passive society will do as they are told...even those who believe MP's of all party's when they tell you that the medicine is for the good of us all.
Anyway keep working hard for the time being until you who feel safe can also be sacrificed on that great.....capitalism.

Since 2008, National Debt has increased sharply because of:

Economics Recession (lower tax receipts, higher spending on unemployment benefits), Financial bailout of Northern Rock, RBS and other banks.

The way out of this is to fund businesses to produce more and create jobs. How do we pay for this, get the money back from the banks, charge them the more realistic 3% interest on their loans and get them to fund the businesses as they should have since day one of their bailout, and that includes each and every bank, yes including Barclay's as they are getting loans at a reduced rate of 0.5% interest funded by the taxpayer.

Open up the ship yards, rail works, steel plants and start manufacturing as we once did, and let those dinosaur economic disasters we call banks fail, they do not make money at present the cost is £1.2 trillion and rising with another expected bailout soon.

We are all in this together, so get the banks to pay for their disaster. A £1.2 trillion input into industry would have meant more jobs than workforce. Make goods for cost or even below, it is still cheaper than paying millions to be unemployed.

4. At 1:08pm on 21 Oct 2010, scotty1694 wrote:
id like to thank the previous 2+ generations for screwing up alot of peoples chances for a high quality of life from everybody 25 and under THANK YOU!

your attitude of its not my problem,and thinking you should get easy money etc, you were warned you didnt care and now were screwed i hope we remember this and in 10-20 years i hope we stop your pensions and winter fuels allowence and give them to us and the new generations, bet you will care then

im 23 i have had 0 say on what has happend to this country for 20 years
the current situation was not cause by my generation you voted the gorverments in you let them take everything you watched and did nothing as they opend the gates to the world with open arms, you let them make it possible to literally work us to death.

look at the french tell them there retirement is not 60 but now 62 and all hell lets lose cheers for being a bunch of lazy, selfish well i cant put the next few words.
........................................................................
I'm 38 and have been living with nightmare governments since birth. If you think we all lay down and allowed this to happen without a fight you are mistaken.

Perhaps you know nothing of the Poll Tax demonstrations or similar demonstrations and strikes that have occurred trying to stop our government from taking revenge on the poorest of our society.

As for opening the gates to the world with open arms, we are reaping what we have sown. We have invaded almost every part of the world at some point, the open flood gates are acts of guilt. We may not agree with it but we cannot deny it.

It depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you`re trying to divide the country, wreck the economy and create civil unrest, oh yes, it`s definately gone far enough. If on the other hand you`re tryin to consolidate your power base and create an oligarchy, then i`m sure there are lots of other options open to them.

"
13. At 1:18pm on 21 Oct 2010, Bibi (Labour Babe) wrote:
"

As, always, a load of rubbish.

Do the cuts go far enough?
The cuts go too far and against the wrong segments.
Why is Mr. Osborne not defining what he means by "fair". In my opinion, fair means just and just would mean that those who caused the economic damage would pay to repair the economic damage that they caused.
I hear that Mr. Osborne is going to introduce a bank levy. I wonder what that will look like and how "fair" and comprehensive it will be. A better question is why is he re-inventing the wheel.
The EU has already developed the FTT (Financial Tranaction Tax) and the preferred FAT (Fiancial Acitivty Tax). Will the UK implement a different tax; that should work well (NOT) because a devisive application will without a doubt weaken the entire effort and thereby increase the chances of tax evasion.
I just can't understand why the average everyday person is being made to pay for the damage that the huge investment banks - too big to fail - caused. I can't understand why FTT and FAT are not getting any puplicity while austerity is constantly being sold.
FTT and FAT will be discussed at the G20 coming soon.
Could it be that the Uk is so resentful about the EU that it has made up its mind to close its mind?

Seems about right to me. The only bit I really don't get is the 30% increase to Overseas Aid. Why ?
Apart from that, there was little choice to do anything else as unfortunately that's what you get when you have a bunch of Champagne Socialists in for so many years throwing buckets of money at anything that moves.
Although if people want to protest, I'd suggest looking at MP's pensions as a blatantly unfair situation. Private pensions trashed, public pensions trashed, MP's pensions boosted with extra funds and different rules to every other person in the UK. Plainly wrong.

The Acid Test...

Will the changes rebalance the economy to enable the poorest to layers to take part fully in society and thus stimulate the economy?

Are we or when will we be paying a living wage (the minimum wage is well below this)?

Are the poorest relatively better off, suffering less pain?

If the answers are NO or NEVER, then we haven't done the right things yet.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Has there ever been a tougher time outside war time to be a teenager in the UK ? I went to university and although I have struggled to find highly paid work sometimes I did not have a debt mountain weighing me down.
I am 38 and i apologise on behalf of my short-sighted selfish generation.

Booted out in 1997, slunk back in in 2010, same agenda. The Tories were going to dismantle the Welfare State even if there had not been a financial crisis,paradoxically the credit crunch makes it easier for them to progress its destruction more deeply and rapidly.
Having fixed Parliamentary procedures to ensure they remain in power for the next 5 years(even if the coalition of the right destructs), Cameron and Osborne can pursue their unmandated agenda, with the willing complicity of the Orange Book Lib-Dems.

@ No.1 - Dr Llareggub - did you also spot the 20% cut in the UK Border Agency?

This is "backdoor immigration" and I've a suspicion Nick Clegg will get his way with an 'immigration anmesty'.

Try justifying immigration now against soon to be increasing unemployment.

The UK is screwed up so very badly and for many reasons other than just financial.

Did the cuts go far enough?

That will be a good question for those long nights we spend around a single candle, huddled under the blankets in our tents (both kindly donated by the Indian and Pakistani governments) sharing the last of our cold baked beans out of what used to known as the Ark Royal and waiting for the latest food parcel to arrive from China.

Could be worse though - I could be spending 20 years in the navy throwing paper airplanes off the flight deck of one of the new carriers - because thats the only thing they are ever going to be able to fly.

Well done condems - I'm sorry I ever voted for that spineless bunch of politicians in the Liberal Democrats.

Learn from History - ask yourself what would have happened to the USA if Roosevelt had adopted the same attitude as Cameron and company.

If a council funded contractor is found to use illegal imigrants then the councilor responsible for placing the contract should lose his job.

As for the topic - No they should have cut the amount of Coincil/Scottish Government/European Government/Westminster Government parasites that we have to pay for. Why should we have all these third raters and their support staff hanging on to us and consuming all our resources and doing nothing.

We should have cancelled the new Forth Road bridge as the contstruction will not employ any local or British workers and it will only pander to the east coast gravy train and their horrible parliament.

Last week the pub was full of Irish workers that are building wind farms, supposedly the new growth market and savior of construction jobs. Why are they not British? Surely there are unemployed building workers that can pour concrete?

I can predict that a lot of posters will come on here and criticise Mr Osbourne, but fail to see the reason we are in ths mess is because of the last 12 year of total economic mis-management...and for labour to come out and criticise is total hypocrisy...they shold actually appear before some enquiry to explain how come the country is in such a bad place..you cannot have a country employed purely by the state, and labour have never learnt this..yes it is tough but I understand the reasons behind, the main one being it is necesary to clean up the mess left..

"
26. At 1:29pm on 21 Oct 2010, corncobuk wrote:

It depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you`re trying to divide the country, wreck the economy and create civil unrest, oh yes, it`s definately gone far enough
"

The economy was already wrecked, it would appear the Tories want it to stay wrecked.

The problem it appears with many of the early posters is that suddenly many will lose their freebies from the gravy train paid for by the rest of us. I'm self employed, no one looks after me apart from me, I can't lose my job I haven't got one in the eyes of many council employees, I just get less work coming in. well done Osborne I say, yes things will be tough, but some of us have already been through something similar and know that we can ride it out.

For those of you who thought you had cushy jobs, big salaries, pointless jollies and expense accounts all paid for by the rest of us then it looks like you're about to get your comeuppance. Many of you deeply affected many peoples' lives with a sweep of a pen and a shrug of your shoulders, well, now you're getting some of your own medicine, not very pleasant is it?

Welcome to the real world, if some of you employ the same attitude you adopted when employed by the government out here, well, you're going to get chewed up pretty badly.

They certainly don't hit the top earners enough.
There is a big difference between having to give up some food or heating and having to give up buying a new porche.
How is it fair for the poorest to pay up, while the top earners are avoiding tax or defrauding the tax man?
Why are tax dodgers not demonised and chased to the same extent as benefit cheats? After all, the cost us all 15 times the amount benefit cheats do, AND they have the money to pay up.

Seems to have done a decent job.

The new bank levy is interesting but they should also be broken up in my view.

I think Labour are struggling to find an answer - the claims that it affects the poorer part of society more is, as always, measured in percentage terms. 0.3% of your income on £10k a year is only £30 - how much less can you realistically expect to pay towards this crisis?

And also that is across the board, including benefits and since we all know that we need to do something about the welfare state, if you take that out of the equation it looks a pretty good job.

Essentially it takes away the incentives not to work or to move up in life and invests in the infrastructure of the country with roads etc and science.

Sounds ok to me.

Lol, just heard Cameron on BBC news saying that we have a moral responsibility to give billions in aid. Don`t we also have a moral responsibility to the poor here too? Pity i don`t have sky+, i would have rewound it just to make sure i was hearing right.

Three additional measure I would like to have seen:
1) A 50% reduction in out EU contribution - we're all taking a hit so they can as well, it might just make them get their house in order, particularly if all the EU Member states Govt's did the same. If they complain, just tell them that at the moment they are an expense we cannot justify, particularly given what they ........... I was going to say earn, but I don't believe they do enough to justify saying they earn it.
2) Re: the 25% cut in money to councils - agree with No.8, Bob. Councilors have seen their pay increase out of all proportion in the Labour years, I would also make them take a pay cut first before either cutting services or raising council tax to accommodate the Gov't cut.
3) Re: Post 7 and the layers of Gov't not just in Wales but other parts of the UK. All of it should be reviewed and anything unjustified should be scrapped - Yes it would mean job losses, but in it's place the money saved can be used to finance local business start ups/initiatives (so local people can be employed by local private businesses rather than local Gov't businesses), actually making things so we can become somewhat self sufficient and a net export nation, rather than buy everything in from abroad.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

At 1:08pm on 21 Oct 2010, scotty1694 wrote:

Scotty, you say you are 23, that means you can vote, which also means you didn't do enough to keep the Tory's out this time, nor did you do anything about Labour last time. Pot, kettle, black springs to mind.

Welcome to the game of life. Do not pass go.

4. At 1:08pm on 21 Oct 2010, scotty1694 wrote:
id like to thank the previous 2+ generations for screwing up alot of peoples chances for a high quality of life from everybody 25 and under THANK YOU!

The last 2 generations? That's alot of people you accuse! Perhaps you'd like to vent your misspelled, gramatically incorrect bile at the last 2 governments instead, because not everybody voted for those parties.

4. At 1:08pm on 21 Oct 2010, scotty1694 wrote:
id like to thank the previous 2+ generations for screwing up alot of peoples chances for a high quality of life from everybody 25 and under THANK YOU!

your attitude of its not my problem,and thinking you should get easy money etc, you were warned you didnt care and now were screwed i hope we remember this and in 10-20 years i hope we stop your pensions and winter fuels allowence and give them to us and the new generations, bet you will care then

im 23 i have had 0 say on what has happend to this country for 20 years
the current situation was not cause by my generation you voted the gorverments in you let them take everything you watched and did nothing as they opend the gates to the world with open arms, you let them make it possible to literally work us to death.

look at the french tell them there retirement is not 60 but now 62 and all hell lets lose cheers for being a bunch of lazy, selfish well i cant put the next few words
===========================
You're not wholly wrong but you are on a number of things. Firstly, you had a vote Secondly, I'm not sure how much input you expected to have when aged 3. Thirdly, do you really think it's only your generation that's lost out? We've be taxed to death, had our pension pots stripped (partly to give the young birthday presents and to pay for university education for anyobody functionally literate). Fourthly, are you actually saying that pension ages should never change so that when everyone's living to 100 we should work for 40 years and have pensions for 40 years? If you can, try to work out the economics of that.

No, he hasn't gone far enough. NOTHING should have been ring fenced. Are we really saying that the biggest employer in the UK (the NHS) hasn't got the scope to save money?

Scotty 1694, comment 4.

Whilst I appreciate your ire, I can't help thinking that our future isn't going to be very bright if it's going to be run by a generation that appear unable to employ basic grammar or spelling?

May I suggest that before you start calling the rest of us lazy, that you indulge in some remedial education?

Oh and by the way, at 23 like many of my generation I was already self employed, had learned a trade and since leaving school at 18 had always been in work and have been ever since. This didn't happen by accident.

6 Million unemployed by next April with no hope of getting a job this century? I'd say they've gone too far, there is no integration in the slashing of defence and the rest of the slashing that's gone on. They should teach the meaning of the word Integration at Eton.

As far as future growth is concerned you just have to look at real earnings.
CPI inflation is 3.1%,RPI 4.6%.
Are your wages going up by this amount ??

Is productivity increasing ?

The Chancellor's and PM's stall was set out for a more sound national economy. That would imply a stronger Pound.
How is the Pound doing ?
With Euro ??

Oh dear...1:1.12570

For those bleating on about the fault of the banks, the government is to impose a levy on those with liabilies of over £20 billion, taking effect from 1 January 2011. This is expected to raise an additional £2.5 billion in annual tax revenue from 2012...

Businesses however will see a decrease in corporate tax from 28% now to 24% by 2014...

//3. At 1:07pm on 21 Oct 2010, Eddy from Waring wrote:
I expect we'll get posts saying "No. They do not hurt people I hate enough".
//

Hate's a very strong word.

But if you replace it with dislike or resent, then you're right. He's increased overseas aid, hasn't scapped the Eqalities and Human Rights Commission. As far as I can see, we're still giving money to asylum seekers, and I bet we won't see many senior public sector staff take pay cuts.

He's increased overseas aid whilst cutting defence and the police.

Most importantly, I wonder if there are sufficient disincentives in the system to teenage girls and their feral male friends, to cut the numbers of teenage pregnancies? I hope so.

As I remember there was a bit of paper handed over by a labour treasurey person saying

'sorry there is no money left'

face with that from the last government what where the conservatives supposed to do.
It is sometimes a hard life but the legacy left from labour says it all.

Are the cuts in the right places maybe a better question answer no!
Can we afford trident will it be ever used in anger No!
why do we still support a military presence in the Falklands less than 2500 islanders with over 1000 servicemen stationed there. Is there Oil?
Should we still finance opera to such a level or is it because it is the entertainment of the elite?
Why do we subsidies private rail companies to pay dividends to share holders and large saleries when we could take it back into public ownership and please dont say BR was less efficient than the private operators.
Instead this government seem to be set on causing civil unrest- i remember objecting to the unfair poll tax and when the unrest starts can the government rely on the police to baton charge protestors when they propose to cut police jobs and will we have any servicemen free to drive the Green godess fire engines now-assuming we still have them.

"we're all in this together". Funny, as i don't see how any of these cuts stand to affect Mr Osborne or anyone else in his Cabinet. As usual, it'll be the bottom tiers thas feel the squeeze. Maybe it's time we pulled together and demand that politicians, the people pulling all the strings, take a pay cut to the £30k mark - then maybe we can see if Mr Osborne et al still think the current state of play is "fair". The only way we'll ever end up with a "fair" societly is if we have people in government who are a little more exposed to the consequences of their decisions. As it is now, they're just sitting in a tree dropping rocks in a lake, watching the waves but not getting wet.
I've had no salary increase for 2 years, and now up go VAT and rail fares. I'm 30 years old and hoping to a) get on the property ladder AT SOME POINT, and b) start a family soon. Things were bad enough before, but now all I can see is that next year i'll be earning the same amount of money but paying more of it out to live, so I'll be saving even less. So i guess i'll have to push back my plans, and pray that the better off (bankers, politicans, you know who you are) don't mess things up for the rest of us....again.

This is the perfect moment for labour to shine. They can state without hesitation what they would have cut, how deep that cut would be and why. Then we could see various news outlets hammer both parties because nothing either side chooses will be taken with a smile.

But labour wont do this because there are no good choices to fix this problem. Nobody can please everyone or even most people while we are in recession. There is less money coming in and there is no money to prop up our country until the recession reverses itself.

Since this country is currently running on loans (minus money) to support itself, we are using a lifeline we cannot guarantee. I disagree with the choice of cuts in the MOD (camerons interference and his fault) I cannot yet blame anyone for these cuts beyond labour.

9. At 1:14pm on 21 Oct 2010, Kuradi Vitukari wrote:
The Tories had a chance to correct the problem's caused by mad cap Labour policies. They've chosen the simple "solution" of firing people rather addressing the real reasons why we're in a mess. Shame on them.

======================
One of the mad cap policies was to increase the number of people on the state payroll by 20%. Has anyone seen a 20% increase in standards from the State? Labour was up to its usual tricks of increasing the number of state jobs and benefit recipients so to increase its core constituency. State employment is a ratchet. The next Labour govt will increase it again. If it's not reduced when the Tories come in, we'll eventually end up with 50% - 60% of the workforce being employed by the state. And I've no doubt that there are a lot of HYSers who would think that a good thing.

I think the following should be considered:

1. People who damage property and/or people are liable for the full cost of repair, replacement, medical care etc. "I was drunk" or "I can't pay, I'm unemployed" are no excuse. The money would come direct from bank accounts, benefits or a loan that would have to be paid back in full.

2. Make parents responsible for paying for the damage caused by their children.

3. Fines should replace most prison sentences and prisoners should pay the costs for their imprisonment.

4. Millionaires should go without any pay rises, as they can live off the interest. In fact, many could easily take pay cuts.

5. Gambling winners should be taxed. If the people who won £113 million in the Euro lotteries were taxed 50%, this would have raised £56.5 million and the people would still be grossly overpaid for choosing a few numbers.

They went far enough that today for the first time lots of people where I live took a leaflet from the Socialist Party people who hang around the bus station. It included details of the TUC rally on Saturday which there's no reason for you having to be a Socialist Party member in order to attend - let's all go and show the Condems we don't think their cuts are fair!

https://www.tuc.org.uk/events/detail.cfm?event=3226&regional=7

22. At 1:28pm on 21 Oct 2010, anotherfakename wrote:
The cuts are all wrong and not radical enough at all.
Welfare should be cut to a single payment made to every legal adult which will ensure you don't starve. This will prevent the sort of perverse incentives to go and breed in order to increase your benefit income (after all the world doesn't need more babies and as a country we don't need more babies born into relative poverty).
Tax should be a single flat rate on all income (from whatever source) for everyone resident in the UK for more than 2 weeks (to avoid confusion you need to be away from the UK for a month to reset the counter). There is no need for any 'allowances' because the single welfare payment means no one is starving.

-----------------------------------------

Nice to see some brain usage but this is impractical, increasing the base point means that prices increase with the base point, your single payment however reasonable an idea will enforce price rises and not provide for those who would otherwise starve. The minimum wage in itself was a Labour attempt to get wages at a level and has inspired similar price increases since "everyone can afford it".

Good thought, no practicality in reality.

No they did not go far enough in some areas and too far in others. International aid should have been cut to zero, and more should have been spent on defence of our country. This is especially critical for the internal defence as socialites appear to be still intent on completely bankrupting the country. For far too long we have lived in a false economy, there are far too many "workers" in the public sector who do nothing to improve the wealth and health of the country. The NHS has far too many administrators and could save a fortune by centralising common support functions. The same goes for the civil service and other public bodies.

"12. At 1:18pm on 21 Oct 2010, sweetAnybody wrote:
2. At 12:51pm on 21 Oct 2010, stanblogger wrote:
Yes, the cuts have gone far enough to earn Mr Osbourne a place in history as the most misguided Chancellor ever.

=================

If it wasn't for the last chancellor there wouldn't need to be any cuts. So how misguided was that one?

"

Interesting fact.

Gordon Brown was PERSONALLY responsible for the global financial crisis.

He personally exported the US bad debt, he stole Christmas when I was 6, he ran away with my high-school sweetheart when I was 16 and nicked my big wheel when I was 4.

Learding iz funn.

Just been listening to Germany's record economic progress on the news - selling manufactured goods to the Far East - making big profits, paying more taxes, and employing more people in full time well paid work.
Despite this, and it may be news to the boys in the 'UK foreign news blackout zone' we inhabit, they are drastically cutting defence and going to cooperate with the French. Nothing our government does is new, is it? We just don't hear about where their ideas come from.
Anyway there is a clue in the German achievement somewhere for all the cuts fixated sheep. To get out of a depression as well as cutting you need to sell things to foreigners. As our industry is historically to blame for this crisis, with under investment, an insistence on government aid for training, investment, location, taxes(which many of them don't pay we are told),and a total reliance on cheaper and cheaper wages and chronic price confusion techniques to rip off the customer, I would suggest that they are largely to blame for this crisis. The government's only suggestion for them is more tax relief, more training cash, more foreigners and a cheaper pound(which equals another wage cut).
If you are in a society which wants to force poor people back to work, then you should be forcing the rich people to provide some worthwhile jobs that will help pay the country's way. Now where is there a big chunk of cash going spare to buy something Dave says we don't want, whose price will treble, and we cannot use for 10 years, during which time it will cost a fortune to maintain, and become obsolete, I wonder? Perhaps, if the government thought about it.........

4. At 1:08pm on 21 Oct 2010, scotty1694 wrote:
id like to thank the previous 2+ generations for screwing up alot of peoples chances for a high quality of life from everybody 25
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As far as I can remember it was those people who were killed in their millions fighting nazism, who went without pay during long strikes, got apparently beaten to a pulp by politicised thug police in the miners' strike, likewise in Grosvenor Square to get the Viet Nam war stopped, same to get the Poll Tax lifted etc. etc. all to protect a decent way of life.

It would appear that it's only because those generations are now too old to want their heads kicking in any more that things have begun to slide. Your generation has hardly picked up the baton, has it? The spoilt middle class young of today seem to want a continuance of their parents' pretending to be Father Christmas to give them everything they want before they even realise they want it. You've only to look at all the abandoned drinks cans on the green spaces near the unis in summer, only left there because mummy didn't come and clear up after them.

"28. At 1:30pm on 21 Oct 2010, BluesBerry wrote:
Do the cuts go far enough?
I just can't understand why the average everyday person is being made to pay for the damage that the huge investment banks - too big to fail - caused. I can't understand why FTT and FAT are not getting any publicity while austerity is constantly being sold. FTT and FAT will be discussed at the G20 coming soon. "
Like a lot of people you blame the Banks for the Deficit.
The Damage that the investment banks caused was not the source of the deficit, the Deficit was already there, AT THE VERY HEIGHT OF THE BOOM (2006) when Gordon Browns government would have been receiving the maximum tax revenue's available it was borrowing like it was already in a recession.
The Banking Crisis merely revealed the folly of the government spending when everyone in the world re-awoke to RISK in lending. and those with the money (Saudi Arabia and china a great pair to be indebted too) decided even the biggest government had be a little to free and easy with the national credit card and demanded higher fee's for the money we wanted to borrow. If the banks caused the deficit, then it must be already paid off because the banks are back in profit, the holdings the Government took in the mortgage lenders which it still retains is making a good return, any distressed asset lending for other banks has been repaid.
The downturn caused in part by the tighten credit environment (see Saudi Arabia and china) has caused private sector to shrink (no-one wants to lend because as a country nationally and individually we've already borrowed too much). With the shrinkage in the private sector the tax revenues dropped off quite quickly but the GOVT spending didn't and in many places couldn't and don't forget we were already borrowing far more than we earn't so that’s where the deficit came from and that's why it has ballooned so rapidly.
By the way PUBLIC SECTOR people think hey we pay tax too, problem is that the private sector has to earn everything the public sector spends first. Public sector taxes are the movement of amounts between the income column the expenditure column (the pay) and then back again - no money is made - so when the government cut's back it can't cut anywhere other than the public sector.

I know it befits an obsequious BBC to play fast and loose but please tell me who says we need cuts at all? The excuses for a leader, deputy leader and chancellor do not qualify as anything other than idiots driven by dogma, and, as Professor Greg Philo has already very clearly researched and documented, there are alternatives.

So why an item on "do the cuts go far enough"? Why not an item asking "are cuts necessary and will they work?" or is that too much to ask.

I am by no means alone in believing the media (shame on you BBC for taking a populist stance) is hoodwinking and scaremongering. Can we please have some neutrality from the BBC?

These are necessary cuts - but they are most definitely fair cuts - which could be their downfall.

Cuts in the welfare sector are set to find a total of £ 18 billions of savings, but the fat cats will still receive obscene salary, bonus and pension figures whatever !

Unemployment will continue to rise, due to the terminal destruction of our Industrial Strength and Innovation, hence we will still not pay our way !

The Rich will still get richer whilst the poor will become poorer !

Then we must not forget that our day to day living costs are bound to increase - Gas / Electricity / Rates / Fuel / Road Tax / Food etc., then it will come home to roost for certain !

Beware more is yet to come mark my words !!!

Only time will tell, but there is no denying that something had to be done. The State has become too big and is employing far too many people, paid for in borrowed money. Doing nothing is not an option, otherwise the value of sterling would tumble to crisis levels and, as occurred during a previous Labour Govt, the IMF would take over the running of the UK economy (Harold Wilson & Denis Healey, I recall). If, like Germany, we still manufactured goods that were in demand round the globe, we would not be in such a serious mess. But with only the financial services industry left to fall back on, and we all know what happened there,we are in deep trouble while, once again, Germany is experiencing 3% growth. Our political classes have much to answer for.

Given the appaling financial mess we're in (caused by Labour, or by the banks, or by ... no matter, we are where we are), the Government had 2 choices.

1. Cut less deeply and more gradually. Thus the national debt rises faster, interest payments are greater, debt rises faster, interest payments increase, etc. Also it risks not reassuring the people who we need to lend us money, thus forcing up interest rates (to attract those loans), thus increasing interest payments, etc., etc.

2. Do what they've done. There's a danger the cuts will push us back into recession, producing job losses, higher benefit payments and reduced tax income, all making the debt grow not shrink.

Damned if they do and damned if they don't. Except that neither forecast is more than an educated guess. We elected the Government (yes we did), thus giving them the mandate to do what they thought best. That's what they've done. End of.

It seems every group is moaning about the coming pain they face; no doubt justified (and I feel very sorry for the poorer people). That suggests the Government got it at least roughly right, in sharing out the pain amongst everyone.

Oh, "why haven't the rich been higher taxed? They can afford the pain." Well firstly there are relatively few of them, so even punitive taxation will bring in comparatively little extra revenue, and secondly they can afford to employ the best minds in the business to find ways of avoiding (perfectly legal, unlike evasion) tax.

"Close the tax loopholes the rich exploit in order to avoid paying." Every time Governments try that they open more new ones than old ones they close!!!! The tax system is far too complicated (hence the loopholes) as it is!

Osborne's entire plan depends on growth within the private sector. The private sector relies entirely on customers for its income. For Osborne's plan to succeed, the private sector will have to earn £billons more from customers. So who is going to be spending all this extra money?
The single biggest customer of the private sector is the government, it is drastically reducing spending. A half million redundant public sector employees will be spending less. Wage freezes and higher pension contributions will mean all those retained in the public sector will have less to spend. Private sector employees are already suffering wage cuts/freezes. Now many will be losing child benefits, working tax credits, and if they are tenants they face a large hike in rents. Nearly all private sector employees will be spending less. Customers will disappear, businesses will go bankrupt, and 100,000's of private sector jobs will be lost. Loss of tax revenue and rises in benefit payments will mean further cuts in spending. More cuts, more job losses. More job losses, more cuts. More cuts...........

Possibly they do to achieve a reduction in the deficit but I think many of them have gone in the wrong directions....

Overseas aid increased?

Expats still to get the winter fuel allowance?

I'm confused.

How can it be right for a single parent working and earning £44,001 to lose child benefits, while a two parent family with both parents earning £43,999 each with a total family income of £87,998 still get child benefits? This is the clearest proof that this ConDem coalition only wants to attack those that are the most vulnerable thus least able to fight back.

We can play the blame game, spout figures and percentages, but it`s not a question of any of these things but more a question of impact. What has the impact been on society as a result of this spending review? Has it impacted on the rich to the extent it has the middle and lower classes? If not why not?....after all we are all in this together...are we not? All people are asking for is justice and fairness, not preferential treatment, or decisions made on the back of political dogma, regardless of political leanings. I think this spending review has far to go to meet those criteria.

"58. At 1:59pm on 21 Oct 2010, Steve Edwards wrote:
9. At 1:14pm on 21 Oct 2010, Kuradi Vitukari wrote:
The Tories had a chance to correct the problem's caused by mad cap Labour policies. They've chosen the simple "solution" of firing people rather addressing the real reasons why we're in a mess. Shame on them.

======================
One of the mad cap policies was to increase the number of people on the state payroll by 20%. Has anyone seen a 20% increase in standards from the State? Labour was up to its usual tricks of increasing the number of state jobs and benefit recipients so to increase its core constituency. State employment is a ratchet. The next Labour govt will increase it again. If it's not reduced when the Tories come in, we'll eventually end up with 50% - 60% of the workforce being employed by the state. And I've no doubt that there are a lot of HYSers who would think that a good thing."

Care to share the source for any of those random percentages you are chucking about?, or let me guess - you made them up entirely on you're own based of anecdotal evidence.

How about you go away, do some research across the board on all public sector areas - then come back & let us know if a "20% increased workforce" (if that figure is even correct) - is worthwhile.

For all you know (very little I bet) - the increased workforce of you're 20% made up figure could have increased productivity by .. (hang on, lets make up random figures ....) 40%.

Effectively saving the government money, for all you know some of these extra jobs could have increased the country's income & encouraged growth.

The point I'm attempting to make is that unless you have all of the data, or have researched all of the variables (which i doubt you would even have access too) - you're comments are based purely off speculation & sound more like you are regurgitating the political bias of certain newspapers.

Strip Philip green of his Knighthood - make him pay his fair share of tax.

Legislate to stop making tax avoidance so easy.

Reduce drastically the number of MP's and their pension packages.

Scrap Trident and withdraw from Afghanistan.

Pick on those who can afford it, not the most vulnerable.

Huge levy on banks.

If not - lets take to the streets like the French, and make it happen!

No, the cuts haven't gone far enough: I can stll afford to eat.

Honestly, when did the BBC get taken over by the Murdoch empire? There was a time when you were respected for your impartiality. Now you just seem to be a propaganda mouthpiece for the government.

51. At 1:50pm on 21 Oct 2010, SSnotbanned wrote:

As far as future growth is concerned you just have to look at real earnings.
CPI inflation is 3.1%,RPI 4.6%.
Are your wages going up by this amount ??

Is productivity increasing ?

The Chancellor's and PM's stall was set out for a more sound national economy. That would imply a stronger Pound.
How is the Pound doing ?
With Euro ??

Oh dear...1:1.12570

------------------------

But thankfully for us (unlike greece and the others) we have control over our own currency. Thankfully we dont have to worry about all the other EU countries debating if they should ban us from the group. Thankfully the pound is ours and in our control.

I see that three peers have been suspended from the House of Lord over their expenses claims.

All expenses which were claimed under generous rules and which rules were then bent or broken should be repaid by MPs and peers alike with 1400% interest. It might not be much, but it would make me feel a lot better about the cuts.

' 12. At 1:18pm on 21 Oct 2010, sweetAnybody wrote:
2. At 12:51pm on 21 Oct 2010, stanblogger wrote:
Yes, the cuts have gone far enough to earn Mr Osbourne a place in history as the most misguided Chancellor ever.

=================

If it wasn't for the last chancellor there wouldn't need to be any cuts. So how misguided was that one?'


What about the bankers? This right wing Daily Telegraph propaganda is baseless. Practically the whole world is in recession and thinking of cut back measures, how can you honestly say Gordon Brown was responsible for the equivalent situations in America, Japan, Germany or even France. This is a pitiful argument and is obvious political nonsense. The big Con continues.

And yes, these cuts are unnecessary. It is time for the bankers, big business and tax evaders to cough up their share. It is a disgrace.

"42. At 1:41pm on 21 Oct 2010, corncobuk wrote:
Lol, just heard Cameron on BBC news saying that we have a moral responsibility to give billions in aid. Don`t we also have a moral responsibility to the poor here too? Pity i don`t have sky+, i would have rewound it just to make sure i was hearing right."


I think my morals are not his morals then. When we cannot afford to properly care for people with cancer, the elderly, we send money which can be misappropriated by corrupt officials?

I never thought I would see the day when a Liberal Democrat leader would pat a Tory chancellor on the back, in front of a baying pack of Tory MPs, after that chancellor inflicted the biggest and most savage cuts on the British people I've ever seen in my life! What a complete and utter traitor.

The cuts have gone too far for the poor and not far enough for the rich.

24. At 1:28pm on 21 Oct 2010, chrisk50 wrote:

Open up the ship yards, rail works, steel plants and start manufacturing as we once did, and let those dinosaur economic disasters we call banks fail, they do not make money at present the cost is £1.2 trillion and rising with another expected bailout soon.

Lol, you really need to look at the facts before making comments like that.
Banks and other financial institutions are the biggest single private industry in the UK, they pay more in income and corporate tax than anyone else, and are the only reason the UK is the 5th biggest economy in the world.
You want to tax the hell out of them, let em burn, make em pay...etc. What do you think will happen? They will all leave and the UK would very quickly turn into a third world country.
And what do you expect to be produced by the ship yards, rail works, steel plants you talk about? Do you honestly think we could produce that sort of material and remain competitive with the rest of the world, eastern europe being one example. Even at minimum wage levels we simply cannot compete on manufacturing goods with those produced abroad, the only optin being to scrap or at least lower the minimum wage...do you want that?

I agree that George Osborne and the Government should reduce expenditure and should recoup monies owed to us.

But the three Lords/Baronesses found guilty of corruption - stealing from the British public by criminal fraud - are all coloured ex-Indian sub-continent foreigners.

I think this might be a case of racism; it seems highly unlikely to me that the only criminals amongst the lords & ladies are coloured foreigners who claimed that 'they knew no better' (this may well be the case if they had been criminally (?) advised to buy/rent flats a long way from London in order to maximise their income. If this is the case - who advised them?).

Has the racism dimension been investigated? ... because the corollory - that British are innocent and foreigners are guilty - could be used malignly by 'the common British racist in the street' as a damning indictment against all immigrants.

If these corrupt individuals are truly guilty of extracting hundreds of thousands of pounds from us then there is only one place for them - prison followed by expulsion from the UK.
If they ever again show their face in the corridors of power I trust that all true British lords and ladies will show their distain for these thieves in the usual way - forever shunned. The same rule must apply to any and every corrupt politician, and not just those that steal from the public purse.

'58. At 1:59pm on 21 Oct 2010, Steve Edwards wrote:
9. At 1:14pm on 21 Oct 2010, Kuradi Vitukari wrote:
The Tories had a chance to correct the problem's caused by mad cap Labour policies. They've chosen the simple "solution" of firing people rather addressing the real reasons why we're in a mess. Shame on them.

======================
One of the mad cap policies was to increase the number of people on the state payroll by 20%. Has anyone seen a 20% increase in standards from the State? Labour was up to its usual tricks of increasing the number of state jobs and benefit recipients so to increase its core constituency. State employment is a ratchet. The next Labour govt will increase it again. If it's not reduced when the Tories come in, we'll eventually end up with 50% - 60% of the workforce being employed by the state. And I've no doubt that there are a lot of HYSers who would think that a good thing.'

Where else was the work coming from? The private sector collapsed in the wake of the CC then subsequent recession. Augmenting this the private sector has been employing illegal immigrants for years now at the expense of British workers in their greedy effort to maximise profit margins. Profit over society.

As I keep saying; typical tory trick. We, the ordinary working people of the UK will, once again bear the burden of what the tories friends have done to us.
Why do we put up with it? Because the UK establishment has made just about every protest we could make illegal. They will continue to screw us until we get rid of them and their whole corrupt system.
Osborne and his drinking partner Cameron should be well pleased - thatcher is alive and well and still in No. 10.

Not before time. This country could no go on any more depending on public sector jobs and the benefits culture.
Our industrial base has dwindled to almost nothing. Wealth is built in manufacturing things . Of course the public sector is important, but at the moment it's the case of the tail wagging the dog.
The hysteria being hyped by Labour and the unions is predictable. You had your go guys and look where we've ended up.

@ Ian, post #45;

"Scotty, you say you are 23, that means you can vote, which also means you didn't do enough to keep the Tory's out this time, nor did you do anything about Labour last time. Pot, kettle, black springs to mind.

Welcome to the game of life. Do not pass go."

Ian; with respect, you appear to be suffering from a fundamental misunderstanding of how the political system in this country works.

"Scotty", whoever he is, may well have voted against the Tories this time round, and/or against Labour the last time. The problem with the "First Past The Post" system is that, unless whoever he voted for happened to be the party that actually won, his vote was completely irrelevant and he may as well have stayed at home on polling day - it mattered nothing, and it counted for nothing.

Trying to blame any one individual for "not doing enough" to keep either of the parties out of power - unless you know for a fact that the person definitely voted for them and supports their views - is both stupid and ignorant, sir.

Welcome to the Game of Politics. Kindly do not pass "Go", do not collect £200... and, if you would be so kind, don't bother to vote in the next election. We could do with having one where only people who have the basic intelligence necessary to understand the system are allowed a say - people like myself have had just about enough of dim-wits being allowed to affect the way this country is run.

More moaning, think I'm going to get a pro tory t-shirt to wear at these so-called riots & btw i'm from a working class family too, but I've got pride & self-respect & have made a success of myself...you cant be bothered to work but you can be bothered to riot when the easy life is jeopardised...sums it all up really...lazy & worthless...should be made to compulsory community work!

.
So, the 79% cut in the Universities Teaching Grant still stands.

Is this the 'Zero Cut In The Education Budget'?

Are we being lied to ... or is university teaching not considered to be part of education?
.

Oh what a shame and a pity
Got to move from the City
Life in the ghetto ain't easy
Sometimes we have to go to bed hungry
Mother have and Father have
But blessed is the child that has own
Mama have to mind the hungry baby
Roy Cousins At The Controls
They can't get no work to do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T7iNRdPqKI

Re post 16 KeithD

I am 55, started delivering papers and milk (illegaly) at age 11. I have worked all my life. I have never and I mean never been in debt, had a credit card or even paid things up. I have saved for what I wanted and needed and banked the rest. I have never claimed any benefit other than child benefit, have rarely been ill and yet I am having to work till I'm 66, and any hope of a better life from my savings are rapidly going down the Swanee.

Don't blame everyone over 25 for your problems. Young women leaving school to get pregnant and live off benefits in council houses, people who won't work regardless of age (I do not include redundant workers in this) and banks giving easy credit and mortgages to people of whatever age, even though they patently couldn't afford to pay the money back, try blaming them. Have a look at the Bank of England interest rate and compare it with what banks are charging for loans.

I and many like me did not cause this situation.

"66. At 2:05pm on 21 Oct 2010, ThisWorld wrote:
"28. At 1:30pm on 21 Oct 2010, BluesBerry wrote:
Do the cuts go far enough?
I just can't understand why the average everyday person is being made to pay for the damage that the huge investment banks - too big to fail - caused. I can't understand why FTT and FAT are not getting any publicity while austerity is constantly being sold. FTT and FAT will be discussed at the G20 coming soon. "
Like a lot of people you blame the Banks for the Deficit.
The Damage that the investment banks caused was not the source of the deficit, the Deficit was already there, AT THE VERY HEIGHT OF THE BOOM (2006) when Gordon Browns government would have been receiving the maximum tax revenue's available it was borrowing like it was already in a recession.
The Banking Crisis merely revealed the folly of the government spending when everyone in the world re-awoke to RISK in lending. and those with the money (Saudi Arabia and china a great pair to be indebted too) decided even the biggest government had be a little to free and easy with the national credit card and demanded higher fee's for the money we wanted to borrow. If the banks caused the deficit, then it must be already paid off because the banks are back in profit, the holdings the Government took in the mortgage lenders which it still retains is making a good return, any distressed asset lending for other banks has been repaid.
The downturn caused in part by the tighten credit environment (see Saudi Arabia and china) has caused private sector to shrink (no-one wants to lend because as a country nationally and individually we've already borrowed too much). With the shrinkage in the private sector the tax revenues dropped off quite quickly but the GOVT spending didn't and in many places couldn't and don't forget we were already borrowing far more than we earn't so that’s where the deficit came from and that's why it has ballooned so rapidly.
By the way PUBLIC SECTOR people think hey we pay tax too, problem is that the private sector has to earn everything the public sector spends first. Public sector taxes are the movement of amounts between the income column the expenditure column (the pay) and then back again - no money is made - so when the government cut's back it can't cut anywhere other than the public sector."

If you honestly think that banks & financial institutions have no blame to hold in the state of the UK you are severely mistaken.

All major western nations are in debt, this is as result of the fractional reserve banking system & how money is created out of debt & the addition of interest.

Japan = Massively in debt
American = Massively in debt
UK = Massively in debt.

The problem is money, an artificially created method of assigning value to items.

Money can't be eaten.
Money is not a natural resource.
Money does not power you're lights.
Money does not pump water to you're taps.

The sooner people realise how stupid it is to cling onto such a false & corrupt value system the better.

I can't believe in the UK people are going to die over this.

Riots.
Poverty/Crime.

'37. At 1:39pm on 21 Oct 2010, footiefan wrote:
I can predict that a lot of posters will come on here and criticise Mr Osbourne, but fail to see the reason we are in ths mess is because of the last 12 year of total economic mis-management...and for labour to come out and criticise is total hypocrisy...they shold actually appear before some enquiry to explain how come the country is in such a bad place..you cannot have a country employed purely by the state, and labour have never learnt this..yes it is tough but I understand the reasons behind, the main one being it is necesary to clean up the mess left..'

Ignore what is happening in the rest of the world and believe the hype you read. If the state does not employ people who else would? The private sector are in no fit state to employ anyone at this time and nor will they be anytime soon. It is fine and acceptable to try to shift people from benefits to employment but where are the jobs coming from? Look at what is happening in the US, Germany and France we are not immune from this situation. Yours is a delusional argument.

Cuts will cause people to tighten their budget belts as they fear losing their jobs or a double dip.

private sector built on people spending

people dont spend, less private sector jobs

less private sector jobs for unemployed public sector

more benefits

less UK revenue

double dip

please explain George how this will not occur?

Are the public sector workers that are going to end up on benefits after loosing their jobs and possible their homes going to be labeled as scroungers along with all the other unfortunates already claiming benefit?

The concerted effort lasting since the Government first gained power virges on discrimination, after the way they have tried to brainwash the public into believing benefit claimants are all scroungers, I wonder how many people actually do believe this myth.

As a disabled person I actually feel brow beaten and made to feel like a scrounger, the price of being able to claim disability living allowance is extreemly high.To be struck down with a life changing disease or accident is not something planned for what is after all a measly hand out compared to an average salary.

I woulldn't mind taking a slight cut in benefit if it got the country out of the Mire, but sadly knowing politicians it's all hot air and they will only waste any supposed savings on something else they have yet to dream up.

"77. At 2:17pm on 21 Oct 2010, RadialSymmetry wrote:
No, the cuts haven't gone far enough: I can stll afford to eat.

Honestly, when did the BBC get taken over by the Murdoch empire? There was a time when you were respected for your impartiality. Now you just seem to be a propaganda mouthpiece for the government."

Thank you.

I gives me faith somebody else is awake out here.

I note with interest that these cuts were urged and welcomed by the bosses of Next, Asda and M&S. This seems like turkeys voting for Christmas. Retail sales are already falling and will now continue to plummet as consumer confidence withers away. Moreover, I suspect that those who are negatively affected by the cuts, especially public sector workers, will protest by taking their business away from Next, Asda and M&S and quite right too.

81. At 2:23pm on 21 Oct 2010, ruffled_feathers wrote:

"42. At 1:41pm on 21 Oct 2010, corncobuk wrote:
Lol, just heard Cameron on BBC news saying that we have a moral responsibility to give billions in aid. Don`t we also have a moral responsibility to the poor here too? Pity i don`t have sky+, i would have rewound it just to make sure i was hearing right."


I think my morals are not his morals then. When we cannot afford to properly care for people with cancer, the elderly, we send money which can be misappropriated by corrupt officials?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

You need a conscience and a sense of justice and morality to do the right thing ruffled_feathers. Sadly, those the pull the strings ( both political and economic )lack all three of these noble qualities in copious amounts.