Should there be a review into airline security?

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BA Chief says it's time to review security and 48 hours later we have an airline security alert . . . i'll let people not as hungover as me make the point i am clearly still to drunk to, but the message is there somewhere . . . . Happy Halloween :)

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Any measure that can avoid another lockerbie must taken. I was surprised to hear that cargo has not been checked for explosives. If a cargo plane falls out of the sky over a populated area it would horrendous.

Wasn't there a call for changes a few days ago along the lines of easing them somewhat? Bad timing then...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11632944

Personally, I'm not sure what the best approach is, but worryingly some of the scanners we have in place to detect suspect packages seem to have spectacularly failed.

All this when British Airways is fighting to cut back on airport security.

Security checks may not stop all terrorist threats but speed cameras don't stop all speeders nor do CCTV cameras stop all vandalism; we can't stop fighting criminal behaviour simply because we're not 100% successful.

Perhaps make it law for the companies who own the planes to check the contents of packages? Perhaps use some sort of bomb detection device which can detect explosive materials, which will be subjected to searches.

And don't you dare talk about wasting time looking for objects which will, 99.9% of the time, won't be there. It will be because of the checks that people won't bother putting bombs in it.

Now, the target of the recent bombs. Apparently it was meant to destroy the plane in flight. Was it meant to cause the plane wreckage to hit something? Seems a bit odd that anyone wanting to bomb a plane would address the package to a synagogue. Does this imply a sense of humour amongst the terrorists? From my perspective, it doesn't look subtle, a package from the Middle East addressed to a synagogue in America. Wouldn't that have caused it to be flagged for searches?

It sounds like pure idiocy on part of the sender, coupled with how it got as far as it did it makes the whole thing sound like a sitcom. Either that or it is a cover-up.

Yes.A thorough review. But this should extend to a review of the sources of the security threat. An open, frank, review, a wides ranging discussion as to where the threat comes from and who are the likely threats to security. Tough if it offends against the BBC's agenda of a multicultural society, tough if it offends the agenda of assorted bigots in the UK. We need a thorough discussion. We need a free and independent media to press for such an open and objective review.

The President of BA has objected to manditory American airline security measures and says he doesn't want to follow them. This evidently after having forgotten about the British shoe bomber, the attempt on the plane bound for Detroit before this latest attempt. By executive order, BA should be banned from flying to the US for 90 days with a warning that any future resistance to American security measures will make the ban permanent. If people do not want to comply with our rules, they should not be permitted to come here.

I'm just waiting for some islamophobic individual to come out with some stupid statement like 'no head-scarf's or vales at the terminals' or be even more ridiculous and tell us that all men with beards should be asked to shave before boarding a plane!!

Prejudice seems to be running the country these days...

3. At 12:32pm on 31 Oct 2010, Ariely wrote:

Al Qaida and similar organizations are a result of generations of the hate preaching and teaching by Arab countries.

...........

Have you ever been taught in an Arabic school?

Unless you have, I think it would be very naive to comment on their teaching subjects and methods really...

I don't believe you can have 100% security; however, if current security has failed then obviously it would need to be looked at.
The first alarm bells should have rang when packages addressed to synagogues in the US, were posted in Yemen.
A concern is how much our Government appears to be playing this up. Yes, the bombs could have exploded in the air over the UK, but it would have been a matter of chance, not planning. There is a lot of airspace between Yemen and the US, it would be extremely difficult to know exactly where these packages where at any given time, even with tracking information provided by some logistics companies.
This is a fairly indiscriminate attack and I would prefer our Government to treat it as such, rather than infer it was an attack on the UK.
It is the terrorists aim to create fear; the Government should not assist them.

I think it's a bit obvious we have a "terror scare" a few days after we have a minister saying how redundant airport security is and how we shouldn't be kowtowing to American pressure...


Don't make your social manipulation so blatant!!
Is it really going to fool anyone?

Three points

1] the purpose of terror attacks - to make governments impose severe restrictions on its citizens freedom, in the hope they will rebel and cause chaos.
2] "any man who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither" (Benjamin Franklin)
3] you are more likely to kill yourself with a kitchen knife than be involved in a terrorist attack, so, should we install more security in our kitchens, 24 CCTV in our whole house, watched by the government and leaked onto the internet?

Sense of proportions please

"
13. At 12:49pm on 31 Oct 2010, Rob wrote:

I think it's a bit obvious we have a "terror scare" a few days after we have a minister saying how redundant airport security is and how we shouldn't be kowtowing to American pressure...


Don't make your social manipulation so blatant!!
Is it really going to fool anyone?
"

I know yet another conspiracy theory to be put along side 9/11, JFK, Roswell and clones created to fight in the Vietnam war.

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First we are told these packages were addressed to synagogues in america, then we are told they were meant to detonate on a mail plane (odd) then we are told they were merely explosive materials but not actual bombs. Whos to say this isnt yet another false flag, in the attempt to get everyone to support Israel? 7/7, 9/11 and the madrid bombings were nothing to do with Al CIAda, or 'the database', whatever they are being called today, they had all the 'hallmarks' of MOSSAD, I'm guessing there wont be a real investigation into this latest rubbish, as it would explose the real people who planted these devices. I'm sure airport security WILL be increased, to help produce the equivalent of the USAs patriot act, over here!

It seems that what many commentators said is true. There is little point in the passenger screening. To get round it they use cargo planes. No surprise there then. If I were a terrorist I would choose to do the same. The screening measures in place DID find the devices. It would seem then that the security needs to be more thorough for all PACKAGES. Never mind my cuticle clippers and Clarins cream!

Oh come on people. #2 has it spot on. BA Chairman points out the blindingly obvious, also pointing out that US security checks are ridiculous and then 48 hours later, hey presto we get a security scare that involves UK and US. I can understand the right wing murdoch controlled media lapping it up and wheeling out the regular "security experts" (scaremongers in English) but is everyone so brainwashed now you cant see when you are clearly being lied to and mainpulated. This security scare is 100 % fake and its 100 % obvious it is.

If these bombs were designed to be lown up when the planes were in the air, why attach them to mobile phones? An altimeter makes far more sense.

Secondly the conclusions drawn are based on what exactly? Were they arrived at exclusively by the intelligence agencies or were they "sexed up" by Downing Street and the Oval office. The similarities with Iraq in 2003 and now are striking...

I just saw a bit of the politics show today where they were discussing the fact that terrorists should be given a fair trial like anyone else. I found myself agreeing after thinking back to people being found innocent years later. I then realised that not everyone is detained and gets a fair trial eg. people with mental health issues who are have a stigma attached and detained on a doctors word. Does this mean terrorists have more rights than someone with a mental health problem? Then again after watching 'four lions' maybe they can be both terrorists and mental.

What really puzzles me is that when this story broke on Friday, we were told that the printer cartridges did not contain explosives.

Now we are told that they did contain explosives.

In the absence of a good explanation for why the story changed, it is very hard to know what to make of all this.

I'm not usually one for conspiracy theories, but this does seem a bit strange.

The Home Secretary has said the bombs were 'viable' but were they actually primed and capable of exploding? It seems odd that the perpetrators would send parcel bombs from the Yemen (of all places) addressed to synagogues in the US. This would surely have made the packages very suspicious and subject to close examination. It has also been reported the woman arrested in Sana'a left her phone number with the cargo company; very careless! The would be terrorists were either inept or perhaps we have yet to hear the real story.

I personally feel like our security in the West are always playing cat and mouse, the only way to tighten security is eliminate the option to carry out attacks in the style previously done but then there is always some other way it can happen. It'll never be fully eradicated unless air travel was completely stopped, which clearly won't happen and isn't stable in today's world

I travel sometimes twice a year to the U.K, and find the security checks in the U.K very thorough with one exeption, I carry on my person over 50ml of liquid in the form of silicone.
I refer to my prothesis breasts after having a double masectomy.
Pretty handy for a woman terrorist to have on her!
I only realized this on my last trip, after being "frisked" and made to take my shoes off, security overlooked this.
Perhaps they'll want cancer sufferers to take their bra's off too!!

Should there be a review into air freight security?
NO, this fiasco has all the marks OF A FALSE FLAG OPERATION.
When it comes to dealing with real terrorism, can you imagine what the terrorists think when they watch such a western display of God knows what?
Yemen Government states: "No UPS Cargo Plane Left Their Shores on Friday."
A confused Yemen Government was shocked to hear about the “alleged” cargo plane plots. The Government is absolutely certain that no UPS cargo plane took off on th Friday in question to any British or American airport.
The Yememi Government will pursue an independent investigations to uncover the truth.
The authorities of Dubai and Britain claim two packages (transported by UPS and FedEx) had been sent from Yemen.
Mohammed al-Shaibah, Air Cargo Director for Yemenia Airways said to Yemen Post, "No UPS cargo plane left Yemeni lands over the land 48 hours. These accusations are false and baseless."
He added, "No UPS or DHL cargo packages heading to Chicago through Yemen took place in the last 48 hours as well."
"All packages are checked very carefully in Yemen, and there is no evidence to prove that this package came through Yemen."
CNN reported the suspicious package, which contained a "manipulated" toner cartridge, tested NEGATIVE for explosive material. The suspicious package led to heightened inspection of arriving cargo flights in Newark, New Jersey, and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and a UPS truck in New York. Any level of security that can detect two little packages amonst all that cargo should be plenty enough secure for the US and UK.
YEMEN CLAIMS NO UPS CARGO PLANE LEFT THEIR SHORES ON FRIDAY
The lawyer representing a Yemeni woman arrested over suspicions she was involved maintains categorically that his client is being set up. The woman, identified by her lawyer as 22-year-old Hanan al Samawi, is a fifth-year computer science student. Abdul Rahman Barman confirmed that al Samawi's phone number appeared on the packages, but he said he believes the telephone number was used by some other entity to implicate his client.
Also, al-Qaida has NEVER left obvious traces on its operations. How dumb to you have to be to insert your own telephone number?
Several US officials identified the terrorist group's top explosives expert in Yemen as the most likely bombmaker. Surely they are not rferring to 22-year-old Hanan al Samawi; so, who are they referring to?
I sincerely hope the truth emerges soon.

I dont trust the american government or the british government. These packages were probably organised by our allies saudi arabia in order to keep authoritarian laws and rules as beneficial prominent in the public mind.

Wouldn't a simple solution be a global embargo on such nations as Yemen...no airlines touch them with a barge pole until they root out these religious psychopaths.

Complete isolation - that will make them stop and think!

Whilst we don't know all the facts about these incidents, it strikes me as very strange that someone would go to all the trouble of sending a printer(a bulky and heavy piece of kit)halfway around the world by air, let's face it, most countries are awash with them so I would have been immediately suspicious, even more so coming from Yemen. Freight companies do transport printers around the world but normally in bulk, not one-off's so somebody should have at least queried the oddity of it.
Another question should trigger some questions, electronic goods are forbidden to carry batteries with them for obvious reasons so where was the battery for the modified phone circuit board? No mention of one being present so what other mechanism was used or is that a secret? If there wasn't one, was this a dry run?
All that apart, checking every parcel either has to be done except for trusted companies or we accept that sooner or later something will get through. Frightening thought!

BBC instead of having a debate that assumes the terrorist scare is a fact, howabout something like:

"Given recent comments by the BA Chairman do you believe the current terrorist scare is genuine?"

We seem to be whipped into a frenzy by another terrorist plot. We allow small bands of criminals to have a disproportionate influence on our lives and we read all sorts of political messages in their actions and our reactions. The fact is that terrorism has a relatively small impact. Take the worst case, the abominable 9/11 for instance, more people die from road traffic accidents in the world every single day, even more people, mostly old, die from falling downstairs in their homes; and many many more, mostly children, die every day from not having access to clean water. And that is not caused by a few deranged minds but the result of thought-out policies or apathies condoned by the vast majority of well-meaning people.
So leave anti-terrorism to the police and turn our minds to more important matters.

If BA doesn't want to take responsibility for airline security, then how about the TSA taking over part of Heathrow, like they do in Canada and Bermuda? We call it "pre-border clearance".

On the one hand, you are considered to be in US territory once you pass security, passport control, and immigration. On the other end you don't have to pass through security again.

On the other hand, that part of the airport can only be used for US bound flights, and you must arrive 3 to 4 hours early to clear security. Don't even think about what it takes to make a connecting flight.

Your call, BA

And, really!? We never screened cargo?!?

Only a week or so ago we were discussing the relaxation of airport security and then this happens straight after? This is too close together for it to be a coincidence.

To back this up we also had reports from East Midlands police saying there was nothing in the toner cartridges that imitated a bomb (these being the men that have seen them face to face) and the American Government said no you're wrong.

Based on how flimsy this story is already i would like to ask the British and American governments why are they putting their nations populations into a state of fear again? The last time this happened they invaded Afghanistan and later Iraq and due to the fear the public had thanks to government propaganda such as this the public went along with it....until of course we discovered for ourselves that Saddam Hussain had no such thing as a WMD. Is this latest 'event' designed at getting the masses to hide behind those at the top and invade...oh i don't know? Iran for example?

We'll see....

Wow!. What brilliant timing for the alert. And... it was targeting US citizens, Jews and Gays, as well.


Is it me, or is this just a little too convenient?

Dave

It would be helpful if the Home Secretary's promised 'Security Review' also included explicit recognition of the ideology that is driving it. Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is quite explicit in its inspiration - Islam.

Unfortunately, most politicians are not sufficiently robust to confront this glaring reality.

They will just pursue the usual approach of co-opting the inevitable 'community leaders' into the Security Review. That will lead to the usual obfuscations of 'Islam is a Religion of Peace' and that 'these incidents are the actions of a 'tiny minority' of extremists'.

Until, of course, an aeroplane plummets to the ground over a major city.

Martin Broughton - surprisingly absent from the news today

This is a highly technical subject. If the Home Secretary can convince other senior Ministers (and of course the PM), that on advice from the Agencies involved such an inquiry should be set up, then there should be one. But it would be of no use at all if it were to be held in public.
It's impossible for us members of the public to say if more international co-operation is required since we don't know the extent to which it's taking place already. I would imagine that there is quite a bit, and that the Government can work out for itself which countries can be brought on side, and which can't. It's likely to have been going on for years, anyway

Yes. There is little point in a massive security test for a holiday flight to Palma. All flights should be profiled along with their passengers. We could learn a great deal from the Israeli's and El Al. Human Rights and security are not the same bedfellows. Security must come first every time. The threats to this country are already in this country and we should take full account of it irrespective of Human Rights.

17. At 1:00pm on 31 Oct 2010, carnut1980 wrote:
Whos to say this isnt yet another false flag, in the attempt to get everyone to support Israel? 7/7, 9/11 and the madrid bombings were nothing to do with Al CIAda, or 'the database', whatever they are being called today, they had all the 'hallmarks' of MOSSAD.
-----------------
So what you're saying is that everything happening in the world is connected to Israel.
You would probably also say that if Israel didn't exist there would be world peace. So what about Taliban in Pakistan/Afghanistan, Philippines Muslem terrorists, Iraq, Muslem attacks in India, need I go on.
Learn the truth and then you won't talk a load of nonsense.

Oh dear, UPS planes do not fly to Yemen. Tell Dave and Barry another amendment to the story is required.

Just note that that a person who sends a parcel via UPS or Fedex (or any other postal service) cannot know how the parcel will travel - by which flight, time of departure etc., and even the route - unless this person has a collaborator inside the carrier company.

Here we go again. The bombs failed, but the automatic incident overrection mechanism is working very reliably.

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Europeans and that includes Brits even though some of them may not like it should consider the following. Despite the fact that in some few cases passengers like the one headed for Detroit do manage to board airplanes with potentially lethal devices, many we've never heard about have been caught and stopped. That other means are also being used to attack us should not result in abandoning what we've been doing so far but to increase the scope and intensity of vigilance.

But to those Europeans who don't care if America is attacked again, who may even want to see that, and are unaware or indifferent to the fact that their own nations are also high on the list of terrorist targets, they should consider that a successful attack on the US will likely result in a ban on some or even all foreign flights to the US. If it's severe enough it might be permanent or at least until the American public is convinced there will be a system in place that will work. There might even be a ban on cargo shipments. As the American econonmy is still by far the largest single national economy in the world and the largest importing economy, it is the drive wheel that drives all of the other economies directly or indirectly, whether you like it or not. A ban on shipments to the US or new rules that slow it down substantially could damage many other economies, in fact all of them. That is not beyond the realm of possibility in the aftermath of a major successful attack. In fact it might only be the tip of the iceberg in the aftermath. The truth is that most American don't really care what happens to the rest of the world anymore. Our own security and wellbeing is the only thing that matters to us. The rest is just chatter on news broadcasts like BBC's to most of us. We will protect ourselves at any and all costs just as we have in the past.

"Should there be a review into airline security"? is the HYS question.

Checking passengers has been the focus of security by security companies employed by airlines and airport authorities at the cheapest bid.

However, these third party 'security' companies employ people who are not security checked - airside or otherwise. Has anyone spotted the weakest link?

BTW I don't believe in conspiracy theories, or coincidence. Nor do I trust those who proclaim that everyone over-reacts to terroism either.

The Yemeni government has been 'unable' to locate Anwar al-Awlaki in their country even after three years of them supposedly 'looking'.

How much confidence can actually be placed in their claims that they are seeking to eliminate Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula?

It does not bode well for security checks at Yemeni airports. One wonders whether they are committed to actually doing anything other than facillitating the bombs on their journey.

I need to ask a question. Aren't this Government getting rid of the Police, Armed Forces and Security personnel numbers? Hello this is a wake up call.
Terrorists never sleep and as was said on the BBC news channel today we can stop 99 attacks out of 100 BUT it only takes 1 to cause a complete mess.
All parcels, boxes etc, going onto any aircraft, must be scanned using x-ray, and be sniffed for explosives etc. Next all persons working airside must be UK citizens and be positively vetted, just like the Armed Forces and the Police. Vetting should be done every 5 years.
GOD just thought of a problem with all of that NO ONE TO DO IT AS THEY HAVE ALL LOST THEIR JOBS!

For decades Isarel has been profiling the passengers and using armoured bomb resistant containers - and to my knowledge they have not has an airliner hijacked or downed recently. In the rest of the world the passengers baggage and anything they have on them is minutely scrutinised - and we have had hijackings and bombings and various incidents that were nearly disastrous.

And who is in the main that has caused these incidents in the rest of the world - at the risk of having my post pulled by the moderators I think most realistic thinking people would know that it is radicals adhering to a certain non-Christian faith - these same people in the UK would immediately protest to the Race Relations Board then call a lawyer and a newspaper if we were to impose passenger profiling.

Working in the Middle East I see the way security checks are carries out here, they range from the farcical to the extreme, and no-one of any religion or nationality dares complain. We simply give too much time and credence in the UK and Europe listening to a vocal minority.

Just don't allow flights or people into or out of Britain from Islamic countries . This is where 99.9% of terrorist plots originate and there is no point in allowing them free access to our country's transport systems. Until Al Queda and it's supporters in extreme Islam are dealt with by their own countries, then all trade relations, and transport routes should be severed and travel to or from these countries should be strictly controlled.

While we are all now suitably outraged at this, and the bit of inconvenience that may be caused by having to take our belts and shoes off as we go through airport security in order to enjoy our jollies in Fuerteventura, can I just remind people that a bomb actually DID go off yesterday; in the town of Balad Ruz, just north of Baghdad. 25 people were ACTUALLY killed (yes, they permanently stopped breathing) while they were drinking tea and playing dominoes. According to the BBC's Jim Muir, violent deaths are occurring there on a daily basis. Unlikely, then, that anyone will be swapping Fuerteventura with ANY destination in Iraq for next summer's holiday destination. Some would argue that the invasion of Iraq was illegal. Some would argue that it was immoral. Does anyone argue that it has been a 'success'?
As we stew in our own juices about these explosive devices, there are those who are asking just why it is that SOME people in other countries just hate 'the West and Westerners' enough to want to cause death and injury to us? Maybe they could start (although by no means finish) by asking Andrew Holmes, Michael Wagnon, Jeremy Morlock, and Adam Winfield. Who are they? Four members of the US Stryker infantry brigade whose 'extra-curricular activities' have been found out, and now face charges for murdering Afghan civilians for "sport" (Morlock has confessed to 'waxing' civilians, in his own words - maybe he was 'waterboarded' by the CIA into it - in a video of his interrogation released by the prosecuting authorities), cutting their fingers off for "trophies" and (all for the family album, no doubt) then being photographed with the results of their 'handiwork'. And we wonder why some people in some parts of the world just CAN'T appreciate that we are in their country to 'liberate' them! The ingratitude! Interestingly, these incidents somehow never seem to make quite the same kind of 'full-on', 24/7 media coverage as a man who couldn't even make his underpants explode, and a couple of cack-handed attempts to blow up cargo planes with devices sent from YEMEN to addresses of synagogues in Chicago. They may as well have written 'Handle With Care: May Contain Explosives' on the parcels!
I do not condone attempts to kill anyone. However, people can't seem to understand why the West's 'stock' is not high in certain parts of the world. I can't do better than quote Field Marshall Frederick Roberts when he said "I feel sure I am right when I say that the less the Afghans see of us, the less they will dislike us." Some would perhaps say that this sentiment holds as true to today, as when Field Marshall Roberts said it....back in 1880.

I would suggest that once it has been established where the bombs are coming from, ie Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia, etc, we should threaten retaliation - make it quite clear that we will go in and bomb whoever is deploying weapons of mass destruction. It's time to show these murderous despicable apologies for human beings that we will not tolerate this type of inhuman activity against civilians. We should also threaten, and carry out the threat, to remove from our country any foreigners who do not have our welfare at heart. Wake up Britain, stop pussyfooting and deal with these situations.

Security should be in constant review when we are on severe terrorist footing...they used cargo planes because the airline security was enough of a deterrent?

There will always be cracks...these bombs are just the sight above the surface..what happened to the rest of the explosives?We must assume they go to the destination?

Fedex do boasts they carry lots of parcels to everywhere in the world and have a shadow airline network..

So what is the target? exploding airliner over New York,Dubai, or London?

Looking at parcels coming from a specific country? That's profiling, that is! Stop it immediately! Stop and body-search a WASP thousand priests and nuns for balance immediately!

When an eminent law lord comments on the abuses of human rights involved in stopping and searching people in terms of 'far too many instances being inspired by attempts to restore 'balance' of correctness' [I wonder what kind of correctness he was talking about??] then we've got troubles.

You can see who we should be searching, and from where; I can see it; even a law lord can see it from his ivory tower. Can the quisling BBC? Can it [expletive deleted]?

Yet another silly question from the multicultural mediocrity workshop known as HYS.

All this when British Airways is fighting to cut back on airport security.

-------------
While I hate to agree with Willie

However, His comments were correct in as much as the current security measures would make no difference.

What really amazes me is that these terrorists and Muslim countries, kill far more of their own than they do of us 'Infidels' when the powers that be in these Muslim states start getting the message that we are not the Great Satan, that we are not the Infidel, that we are not the Crusaders, then perhaps peace and sanity will start to reign.

My other worry is just how far will these idiotic extremists go before the USA will let rip with nuclear weapons, believe me the Americans will do it, just ask Japan!

In the past when ever we have been at war we have prohibited the free flow of enemy aliens, and we have interned all enemy nationals who were resident in the UK. What will it take to get this to happen again, a nuclear attack on the UK?

Designed to go off in flight... so why didn't they?

Design failure or incompetance? Please tell me why. The truth please if you may!

With the US elections in 3 days, ain't this just so timely, y'all?

Of there are 500,000 people in the air at any one time (source HSBC ads on air bridges), how many parcels are in the air?

Just read up through the other posts and, for the fist time, I find myself agreeing with the egregious MA II - nice one, mate. The last thing we need or want is to dig such a deep appeasement hole that we have to ask the Yank vultures to come back to strip the last couple of bites off the GB carcase.

I believe that we need more security! I believe that every package sender should be background checked, tattooed, and strip searched...especially young ladies sending gifts!

When the story broke the printers did not have explosives in them, according to an expert, then they did have explosives in them, according to an expert. Save us from experts.

How did the "experts" in the British police get it so wrong? A printer toner cartridge has wires coming out of it connected to a mobile phone and a battery - did that not ring any alarm bells anywhere? Wake up and see the IED.

The items were carried out of Yemen to Doha on a commercial passenger aircraft, there are no courier flights in or out of Yemen - why would anyone send used printers or used toners cartridges by airfreight to the USA when the cost would exceed to new cost in the USA? No-one thought it in the least odd?

HEADS MUST ROLL.

Would all the feeble minded creatures who think terror theats are engineered for shadowy purposes kindly provide some facts to back up your foolish opinions. Or just keep your delusional ideas to yourselves and your psychiatric nurses. Thank you.

"
10. At 12:43pm on 31 Oct 2010, Joe wrote:

I'm just waiting for some islamophobic individual to come out with some stupid statement like 'no head-scarf's or vales at the terminals' or be even more ridiculous and tell us that all men with beards should be asked to shave before boarding a plane!!

Prejudice seems to be running the country these days..
"

No what's running the county is people ignorant to the facts. The threat is from Islamic terrorists, this is a fact not fiction. No one is saying all Muslims are Islamic terrorists but remarks like yours are the type of remarks which stir up trouble because it ignores the facts.

I don't recall BA saying relax security? Talk about people reacting emotionally without thinking. All they said was that there's inconsistency worldwide and that some measures are just ridiculous. I travel regularly in the US and I can say there is hardly a consistent process here. Besides, taking my shoes off wouldn't have done anything to stop this latest attempt.

Ignore MAII. He's always ranting and raving. Why should European airports kow tow to us? They've had years more experience in dealing with terrorism. It's time for us ALL to sit around the table and come up with a realistic, workable process that can be applied across all western airports. Will have to be a living process to stay one step ahead as well.

I despair.
Maybe I’m just getting too old, as I am cynical as can be on what I am being told by any expert!


Day One. Substance hidden in machinery found to be one that could help make explosives.

Via a botch up in communication, our friends in America scream 'bomb'.
Oh dear can't be seen to be so inept, send for the ministry of porkies.

Yes there were bombs...Our experts at the depot are agency workers and grossly incompetent and we have taken great pleasure in sacking them.

George, (1984) eat your heart out, nothing ever changes.

No. Airline security is working as it should. The bombs were discovered before they blew up. I'd still rather have fewer obtrusive checks on passengers, and pay fewer airport taxes as a result, but the system as it is, works. This incident is proof.

What I do not want is any more inconvenience caused by tightening checks further than they need to be. Airlines exist primarily as fast transportation. Make checks any slower and you risk defeating the point of air transport.

At 2:03pm on 31 Oct 2010, Maureen Gobener wrote:
"I would suggest that once it has been established where the bombs are coming from, ie Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia, etc, we should threaten retaliation - make it quite clear that we will go in and bomb whoever is deploying weapons of mass destruction. It's time to show these murderous despicable apologies for human beings that we will not tolerate this type of inhuman activity against civilians. We should also threaten, and carry out the threat, to remove from our country any foreigners who do not have our welfare at heart. Wake up Britain, stop pussyfooting and deal with these situations."
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Well, Maureen. How many civilians should we ask the Stryker infantry brigade to 'wax' in order to fully satisfy this demand? (see comment 50, above). Your wishes, it seems, are already being fulfilled, even though you may not be hearing about it every day on the mainstream media. I may be way off base, but your approach may, just may, lead to the best recruiting drive for AQ since October 2001.
What about these for suggestions? (a) We get out of Afghanistan now without one more British life being lost, and let the Afghans sort out their own problems, (b) use the billions we would save by so doing to better protect our own borders from potential future threats,(c) use the current 'fear factor' in flying as an opportunity to actually reduce the amount of air traffic which, according to some, just may be contributing to an impending global environmental 'situation', and (d) from now on, just fight the urge to try to interfere in the affairs of other countries and concentrate on the numerous problems WE actually have in abundance!

It is difficult to distil any common thread from the comments above but most are reassuringly rational and there is a healthy amount of cynicism falling, for the most part, short of conspiracy theories. I am not much of a conspiracy theorist myself but the timing of this story was a convenient counter to BA and BAAs entirely reasonable comments about how unstructured and futile (my words) current security is. I have no doubt that our governments want us to live in (a certain amount) of fear so that they can operate all sorts of worrying policies at home and abroad. I have no doubt either that there are at large a small number of inexplicable haters who wish the rest of us harm but equally I have no doubt that the scale and probable efficacy of their efforts is considerably overstated. Anyone who allows their daily lives to be governed by ancient religious writings (of any flavour) is demonstrably irrational. Personally, I would like the planet to be visited by super-intelligent aliens to show us how impossibly primitive and insignificant we all are. The benefit of an alien appearance would be that all organised religion would collapse overnight and we could begin to apply our miniscule brains to the greater significance of the universe.

Can anyone in Yemen help me fix my printer?

One minute we're talking seriously about how the security industry exaggerate the danger levels to keep themselves in a job, and power over the general public.
For once it looked like we might just have the government talking sense about the threat level or security system.
At last it seemed as if we were going to tell the USA gov't were they could stick their outrageous security demands, demands they don't impose on their own citizens of course, just on the citizenry of their "allies" (aka poodles).

And then we get "viable" devices on planes, one of which was conveniently (for the yanks) routed via the UK.

Sensible talk over, security levels not only not going to be reduced, they're going to be raised and the USA gov't is back in the driving seat, demanding more checks on travellers, more information about innocent people, threatening another ME nation.

How convenient!
You could almost believe an agency of the USA gov't had organised the whole scenario, even if, like me, you would normally be a sceptical listener to conspiracy theories.............

As someone that has worked in the Air Cargo operations at Heathrow for the last 20 years this threat does not surprise me. The current security is terrible and i am surprised it has taken so long for these groups to catch onto the gaping holes in it.
If large quanties of drugs are able to cross our borders without being detected a small package containing an explosive devices is always going to get through.
When you decide to pay peanuts to the security workers that cover these areas, then why are you surprised when you realise you have employed monkeys.
These issues have been constantly raised with the last 2 governments and still nothing changes.

Ironically a couple of days ago there was a HYS about reducing security!

This just goes to show that there are some nasty and educated people out there who wish to harm the US & UK.

In the short term, obviously lets increase security.

However, in the long term, lets consider why a qualified Doctor would feel so negatively about the UK & US, as to plan something like this. Could it be our foreign policy? Could it be that these extremists see how Israel literally gets away with murder, and shuvs millions of Palestinians out of there own homes into refugee camps, and bombs all its neighbours, and we all but stand idly by and ignore it! Could this be a factor? Not to mention invading Iraq on the ebasis of a false premise, making it worse than it was before?

These Al Quaeda operatives are evil, but there are other issues in the Middle East which are not much better.

This woman will probably be executed, and planned something awful, so she must feel pretty strongly about something.

There is a reason for these hate crimes, and please lets not try and pretend otherwise. We need to see more fairness and balance in Middle East policy. The fairer it is, the harder Al Quaeda will find it to get recruits, but I suspect these attempts are along term problem.

If you kick sand on someone on the beach you are likely to get a reaction.

I think that the likely behaviour of the Yemeni government in this matter and where their loyalties actually lie can be ascertained from their Constitution.


Article (1) The Republic of Yemen is an Arab, ISLAMIC and independent sovereign state whose integrity is inviolable, and no part of which may be ceded. The people of Yemen are part of the Arab and ISLAMIC nation.

Article (2) ISLAM is the religion of the state, and Arabic is its official language.

Article (3) ISLAMIC SHARI'AH is the source of ALL legislation.


One wonders what would take priority for the Yemeni government in all matters and when preventing bombers. Loyalty to the Islamic Nation (the Ummah) or loyalty to protect the nations that might be the bombers' targets?



Article (44) A Yemeni national may not be extradited to a foreign authority.


No doubt Anwar al-Awlaki would use this one.

11. At 12:47pm on 31 Oct 2010, Joe wrote:
Have you ever been taught in an Arabic school?
Unless you have, I think it would be very naive to comment on their teaching subjects and methods really...
----
Mr- following 2 examples.
1:Arab language class obligatory text book AL-SCHAICHAN(the 2 wise old men) referring to habit's suppose were Prophet Mohamed words:
I have been instructed by Allah
TO DECLARE WAR AND FIGHT ALL MANKIND UNTIL THEY SAY NO GOD EXEPT ALLAH AND MUHAMMAD IS HIS PROPHET.
(Sahih al buchary anf muslim)

2: Youtube Type on search: Muslim Kindergarden Graduation ceremony
DEATH indoctrination of 5 years old boys.
You will see msked,in uniforms,with swords and Quaran Kindergarden boys saing:
What is your path? Jihad.
What is your most lofty aspiration?
DEATH FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH.

Although security states they have standardized procedures, most people don't follow them. There is also the problem of someone who is very thorough in checking baggage and another who just goes through the motions. If you ever watch security personnel at the airport you'll notice a lot of lazy people talking to their fellow employees, collecting a paycheck. This common lazy gene, not to go the extra mile is found in every career, but in security it's unacceptable. Security companies also make concessions to the travelling public like allowing anything and everything on a plane. Should the flying public be allowed to bring whatever they want onto a plane? Then there's the issue of intelligence. Someone who knows that Yemen is not in Western Europe and knows that there are possible working terror cells coming out of that country. The head of Mossad was interviewed in America and asked what is the key to airline security? He said aghast, "In Israel we don't have this problem, we hire intelligent people." He was spot on. In America, This is The biggest problem. As a nation, We treat our best security personnel like lowly paid government slaves not the esteemed intelligent network, security personnel that they should be. Britain, Israel and Russia have always been 20 steps ahead of us that's why they run circles around our "redundant systems. Much of Washington is run on the gang mentality. If you don't fit the convential stereotype, you're out or you're forced out. They only want to hear what they want to hear. They're not curious. Other countries cultivate their staff and value their workforce. They mix it up so they get an accurate reading of the nation's temperament. Reading and sensing these subtle changes is very useful in establishing a security direction. These are the subtle signs Americans can't detect because its an intuitive approach.

One can have a safer world or a more convenient world and as my life is worth more to me than my convenience (or let's be honest your convenience too) my vote is for a safer one…

28. At 1:18pm on 31 Oct 2010, W Fletcher wrote:
Wouldn't a simple solution be a global embargo on such nations as Yemen...no airlines touch them with a barge pole until they root out these religious psychopaths.

Complete isolation - that will make them stop and think!


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I completely agree. The civilised world might make a few decisions regarding the most serious terrorist sources and simply ban all flights to and from these countries. It is possible, just as they banned flights in response to the threat from volcanic ash. Just decide - on the basis of well infomred intelligence reports - who to single out and isolate them.

I wonder if this means that air freight will not be able to use the air lines toilet an hour before landing?

9/11 and 7/7 have made the UK almost a police state, pleas ebring back the days when you can walk down the street with out a wallet or id and not get filmed by the 100's of CTV cameras that are everywere.

I wish my printer had a mobile phone in it then it could call the makers eveytime the print head wiper blade sticks (been fixed 10 times so far in 17months).

Where there's a will, there's a way!
Remove the 'will' and things will improve world wide.
How does one remove the 'will', by getting out of Afghanistan for a start.

Airport security is very significant. Terror groups easily run explosives on passenger and cargo jets. Underground sex slave cartels use passenger and cargo holds to move indentured prostitutes to new locations.

71. At 2:46pm on 31 Oct 2010, Andy_Pandy1968 wrote:

However, in the long term, lets consider why a qualified Doctor would feel so negatively about the UK & US, as to plan something like this. Could it be our foreign policy? Could it be that these extremists see how Israel literally gets away with murder, and shuvs millions of Palestinians out of there own homes into refugee camps, and bombs all its neighbours, and we all but stand idly by and ignore it! Could this be a factor? Not to mention invading Iraq on the ebasis of a false premise, making it worse than it was before?

These Al Quaeda operatives are evil, but there are other issues in the Middle East which are not much better.

This woman will probably be executed, and planned something awful, so she must feel pretty strongly about something.

There is a reason for these hate crimes, and please lets not try and pretend otherwise. We need to see more fairness and balance in Middle East policy. The fairer it is, the harder Al Quaeda will find it to get recruits, but I suspect these attempts are along term problem.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, let's consider why someone 'educated' might be motivated to undertake such acts.

I see that you have kindly listed the usual so-called 'justifications' about 'the poor Palestinians' and 'Western foreign policy'. However, I note that you have omitted one.

Is it possible, just possible, that learning the Qur'an, Sunnah and Hadiths from an early age might have had an influence?

They extol killing 'infidels' (especially Jews) as a 'good thing to do'. The bombs in synagogues in Chicago would have achieved both.

Another win-win for the 'Religion of Peace'.

Another bomber? This hardly news. We're Americans and we're tough.

There should be a review into the US democratic party. I am certain it will be discovered that Obama had a Yemeni paid to place these fake explosives on the jets. Too much does not add up. It has to be a set up. Obama is panicking as he knows his time is doomed. He wants to take Americans concentration off the Nov 2 elections. Why would there be no timers, or electricity in the devices? It is because Obama wanted to be the hero and have his people find the bombs so he could go on national tv and use the term "terrorist" instead of "criminal", as he hopes this will sway the Americans who know he is siding with the Muslim terrorists.

Oh for goodness sake.

Country going to the dogs, massive cuts being imposed on the poor, mid terms coming up in America and her in the UK govt being battered from pillar to post.

Chairman of BA points out the bleedin' obvious and then what happens....

A terrorist scare , right on cue and as predictable as the sun coming up.

So people are put back in fear, back in their boxes, the irrational hatred of different cultures is stirred up again and soceity cowers under a rock and begs the government to remove more of its freedoms (not that theres many left to remove)

Men and women in their tens of thousands have given their lives so that you all could be free and you are being conned into giving away what they fought for without even a whimper.

This terrorist altert is completely fake. It is designed to

1- Divert attention away from what the govts on both sides of the adlantic are doing to the economy

2- Whip up hatred against minorities - best way to keep a people divided and easier to control

3- Nullify the comments that Willie Walsh made (and sane people like him) and not only keep draconian security measures in force, but bring more in.

When will this madness stop. The real terrorists are in no.10 and the Whitehouse.

77. At 3:09pm on 31 Oct 2010, icewombat wrote:

9/11 and 7/7 have made the UK almost a police state, pleas ebring back the days when you can walk down the street with out a wallet or id and not get filmed by the 100's of CTV cameras that are everywere.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you wish to avoid being 'bothered' by CCTV, just move to a Muslim-majority area of the UK. The cameras will soon be removed in case they 'offend' anyone.

Oh give it a break.

An "attempt" four days before the US mid-term elections, (where it will help Obama) and two days after the BA CEO said that "security" was ridiculous in the UK if the same thing didn't happen in the US?

First the parcels were on cargo flights - and when that wasn't enough, have now been put on "passenger" flights to make it more scary and warrant "increased" measures to make people terrorised. The Yemeni's had said that NO UPS flight left Yemen in the previous 48 hours - now it is a "Woman" and student, both of which are not liked by radical Islamists, who is being "presumed guilty". And will in all probability be shot before any independent reporter can speak to her. (That is an old trick from popular fiction too)

All it needs now is a "message from beyond the grave" from Katz's web site purporting to be from Bin Laden himself, found on an "Islamist" web site, (unknown to either the CIA of FBI who might be interested). But which is not unknown to the Mossad of course. (It is Halloween, so even the dead can be made to wake up singing....)

A quote from Shapiro, an Obama Aide
*"Buried in a Financial Times article about Obama’s “growing credibility crisis” and fears on behalf of Democrats that they could lose not only the White House but also the Senate to Republicans, Robert Shapiro makes it clear that Obama is relying on an October surprise in the form of a terror attack to rescue his presidency.

“The bottom line here is that Americans don’t believe in President Obama’s leadership,” said Shapiro, adding, “He has to find some way between now and November of demonstrating that he is a leader who can command confidence and, short of a 9/11 event or an Oklahoma City bombing, I can’t think of how he could do that....”"*

Fills the headlines though, and takes the attention away from all those economies that are tanking. They should give someone a "treat" for the "trick" they are playing.

Is it just me or does anyone else find this a little strange?
A day or two after criticism of airport security and just before Obama's mid term (forecast to be a real downer for him) something happens to kick-start the panic machine media.
Maybe I just see conspiracies everywhere, but it makes you think this could all have been deliberately engineered to save Obama's neck and to keep the general public in their state of uncertainty.

#83 George
"There should be a review into the US democratic party. I am certain it will be discovered that Obama had a Yemeni paid to place these fake explosives on the jets. Too much does not add up. It has to be a set up. Obama is panicking as he knows his time is doomed. He wants to take Americans concentration off the Nov 2 elections. Why would there be no timers, or electricity in the devices? It is because Obama wanted to be the hero and have his people find the bombs so he could go on national tv and use the term "terrorist" instead of "criminal", as he hopes this will sway the Americans who know he is siding with the Muslim terrorists".

George, your comments are so outrageous that I shouldn't be responding to it. And that's as far as I will go.

It is difficult to formulate a reasoned response, as each time I check the news, the story about this alleged terrorist attempt has changed significantly.

However, the question "Should there be a review into airline security?" should always be answered with "Yes" - because it ought to be under review constantly, as bomb-detection technology improves.

What I want to see is sensible and effective security checks, not the 'joke-shop' security currently practised in passenger travel, which serves no useful purpose. One airport I always feel safe flying from is in Greece, where ALL bags (hold & cabin) go through X-ray at check-in and there's a sniffer dog on hand (a lovely Alsatian called Max the last two times I've been there) watching everybody. Just wish they'd fix the loos...

If extremist philosophies are being taught to young children then why aren't we exporting a quality education to every child in the Muslim world? Most parents want the best education for their child. If an education is backed by a consortium of other countries, its free and the best available, wouldn't this be cheaper than sending in the military? Children are being fed extremist ideology because they want to be educated. We should be in the education business and deploy massive educational teams that can build schools, set up and train and manage teachers.

I would like to see the US ban ALL airlines who fly to or from countries where there is activity/intention to harm American citizens. Enough is enough! I have travelled the world for ten years and have always flown that particular countries airlines and have been respectful of each individual customs and courtesies. Mid Eastern countries are encouraging, by facilitating, individuals to harm the US and it's citizens. STOP THEM BY NOT ALLOWING THEM TO FLY TO THE UNITED STATES! WAKE UP AMERICA! You don't need ANY revenue these countries have to offer! Cut them off and protect yourselves!

My bull*@~+ detector has just gone into overdrive.

Someone suggests limiting the heavily imposed (and financed)security checks and suddenly the people who are very well paid to police it have an almost immediate attack to deal with.

a little convenient perhaps.

Hmm. Now, if I was of a cynical frame of mind, I would say that this simply keeps the "terror alert" pot boiling. The gospel according to Bush is that we (the Great Unwashed) must be made to feel insecure about everything. That way enormous amounts of money can be moved into private sector vested interests. Another way to look at this is to assume - not unreasonably - that the "bombs" were intended for the synagogues that they were addressed to....?
This would, for me anyway line up with the hatred and bitter resentment that Arabs feel towards jews generally, and Israelis specifically, following the horrifying treatment of the people of Palestine by Israel.
I can see no other explanation. Yemen is soon to become - if it isn't already - a member of the Gulf Consultative Committee. This may be seen as a positive step by Yemen towards acceptance as a full member of the Gulf trading nations, of whom the USA and many other nations are trading partners.
This begs the question - why do it, or allow others to do it from Yemeni soil?
It just doesn't add up.

A few weeks back weren't the Dynamic Duo and the other clowns in number 10 considering relaxing airport security? You couldn't make it up.

yes they should bring in sniffer dogs to sniff out the security guards that are sitting in there canteens playing cards and smoking fags instead of getting on with there jobs as security guards.

90. At 3:57pm on 31 Oct 2010, clamdip lobster claws wrote:

If extremist philosophies are being taught to young children then why aren't we exporting a quality education to every child in the Muslim world? Most parents want the best education for their child. If an education is backed by a consortium of other countries, its free and the best available, wouldn't this be cheaper than sending in the military? Children are being fed extremist ideology because they want to be educated. We should be in the education business and deploy massive educational teams that can build schools, set up and train and manage teachers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good idea.

Unfortunately, most parents in the Muslim world would view the Qur'an, Sunnah and Hadiths as the "best education" for their child.

The so-called 'extremist philosophies' are built-in as part of this main-stream teaching. Any attempt to change this situation would undoubtedly be viewed by the Muslim world as 'waging war on Islam and Muslims' and would initiate synthetc 'outrage' on the streets of Pakistan et al.

For those who wonder why the 3rd bomb was not found: this happened because the 3rd bomb should be found on DHL airplane that landed in US, but DHL officials in the airport insisted on presence of two DHL representatives during the inspection of the cargo - and naturally, the bomb could not be easily discovered in these very unfavorable circumstances.

Well,what can I say but that the west is losing badly this war against terrorism.To start with,no one in the west seems to even believe there is such a war.Why,I even read posts here suggesting a conspiracy,and I cant help but conclude that fighting the west must be the easiest venture any enemy of freedom can embark upon.An actual attack is blamed on someone else and warnings calling for vigilance is usually scoffed at and ridiculed by people inconvenienced by being asked to pull off their belts and shoes.Well,watch out Balmoral,Ive always wanted to take over the Royal yacht and am mobilizing my small band of Boys Brigade.I swear the blitzkrieg will be childs play in comparison.

Security and particularly airline security should be under constant review. Once it is predictable it is vulnerable. The first and most important decision should be to divert where possible all air traffic away from major centres of habitation. The number of times I have flown Longhaul into Heathrow and passed over recognisable central London landmarks. The devastation that could be caused by a large airliner suffering an explosion from unknowingly carried explosives and crashing to the ground would be catastrophic.

71. At 2:46pm on 31 Oct 2010, Andy_Pandy1968 wrote:
Ironically a couple of days ago there was a HYS about reducing security!

This just goes to show that there are some nasty and educated people out there who wish to harm the US & UK.

In the short term, obviously lets increase security.

However, in the long term, lets consider why a qualified Doctor would feel so negatively about the UK & US, as to plan something like this. Could it be our foreign policy? Could it be that these extremists see how Israel literally gets away with murder, and shuvs millions of Palestinians out of there own homes into refugee camps, and bombs all its neighbours, and we all but stand idly by and ignore it! Could this be a factor? Not to mention invading Iraq on the ebasis of a false premise, making it worse than it was before?

These Al Quaeda operatives are evil, but there are other issues in the Middle East which are not much better.

This woman will probably be executed, and planned something awful, so she must feel pretty strongly about something.

There is a reason for these hate crimes, and please lets not try and pretend otherwise. We need to see more fairness and balance in Middle East policy. The fairer it is, the harder Al Quaeda will find it to get recruits, but I suspect these attempts are along term problem.

If you kick sand on someone on the beach you are likely to get a reaction.
-------------------------

So what foreign policies do countries like Russia, China, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Somalia and just about every other country in the world have with the Middle East? I ask because these countries are also being attacked by Islamic extremists. They even kill each other, which is one of the reasons why were are in Afghanistan and were in Iraq in the first place.