Is this a new era for Venezuela and Colombia?

Is it possible for both countries to keep a peaceful relationship?

I hope so.

Sorry but I don'tknow what the moderstors want us to say, so I just express my hope for a peaceful relationship. One could have a good discussion were it not for heavy censorship.

Bully for them.

It will last until Hugo needs another distraction from his administration's dismal economic situation.

Why the question in the first place?
Are they supposed to be incapable or is it that outside influences and selfish vested interests will ruin the chances of a successful outcome?
Now let’s give the natives a chance and cut down on the cynicism.

Remember, children (for adult ideas are not permitted on the BBC blogs--we must be led by the hand by Big Brother), Mr Chavez was only playing a silly game, for attention.

Be cause he LOVES attention! And, allegedly, persecuting his critics &political opponents! !

LOLLYPOPS FOR EVERYONE!

(Please, Mr BBC Moderator! Don't delete my post, & put me in the cage with the rats!)

Everything is fair in love and war - add politics. Politicians blow hot and cold as the situation warrants. It is just a marriage of convenience. World is changing every tick. Nothing is everlasting. All the oaths exchanged at the marriage altar get a back seat when faced with the reality of life. And to think of politicians - chopping and changing in a jiffy. Whatever, a respite from aggressive postures from Chavez and Santos is a welcome step for both the countries as it ends in a relaxing smile that promotes good health and wellbeing for people on both sides.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Hugo Chavez is a destabilizing influence in Latin America and Colombia should remain wary. Due to his self-destructive antics and waning popularity at home, Chavez may still try to stir up trouble with Colombia to boost his enormous ego.

Chavez is his own worst enemy. His acid tongue has offended and alienated people throughout the region. In Latin America, even pro-Castro leftists speak disdainfully of Chavez.

This is a new era for South America!
This agreement is more about the United States in South America than Venezuela and Columbia. Washington has tried to oust Chavez, but Chavez has repeatedly won free elections and retained the loyalty of his military.
So the United States has turned toward external factors - surrounding Venezuela with its military presence. (Remember Honduras & the ousting the democratically elected government of President Zelaya, a Chavez ally.)
The Whitehouse secured seven military bases in eastern Colombia during 2009 thanks to the cooperation of Alvaro Uribe. In mid 2010 the Whitehouse made a deal with right-wing President Laura Chinchilla of Costa Rica to station 10,000 US combat troops and dozens of ships all of which was aimed at Venezuela. Together with the Fourth Fleet off shore, 20,000 troops in Haiti, and an airbase in Aruba, the Whitehouse has "encircled" Venezuela from the West and North. The Whitehouse’s militarization policy towards Latin America (Venezuela in particular) is blatant.
Most Asian & Latin American economies are breakinhg free; they do not want or need the IMF or the World Bank. In some countries, such as Brazil, Argentina, Chile and Peru, CHINA has replaced the US as principal trading partner. The Whitehouse struggle to assert imperial domination has fared no better than its diplomatic initiatives. The US-backed coups in Venezuela (2002) and Bolivia (2008) were defeated by the loyalty of the Venezuelan and Bolivian military.
As for Columbia, under Uribe there occurred border incursions by Colombian military forces - similar to cross border attacks by the US sponsored “contras” against the Sandinista government of Nicaragua during the 1980s. The new Colombia regime of President Santos was supposed to be another link in the encircling chain of South America; so, the United States must have seen red when Venezuela and Columbia signed their agreement.
Obama and now ex-President Uribe played a nice little game of accusing Venezuela of offering sanctuary for Colombian guerillas (FARC and ELN). I say this was a game because contrary to President Uribe and the State Department’s statements that the FARC is a declining as a result of their successful counter-insurgency campaigns, a recent detailed field study by a Colombian researcher La guerra demonstrates that in the last 2 years the guerrillas have consolidated their influence over 1/3 of the country, and that Bogota fully controls only half the country. After suffering major defeats in 2008, the FARC and ELN have steadily advanced throughout 2009-2010 inflicting over 1300 military casualties last year. The resurgence affects the position of the supposedly American ally – Santos. First it demonstrates that despite $6 billion in US military aid to Colombia, its counter-insurgency campaign has failed against FARC. The FARC’s offensive opens a second front in Colombia, weakening any effort to invade Venezuela. Thirdly, faced with a growing internal class war, the new President Santos is more likely to seek to lessen tensions with Venezuela.
The American policies in South America have failed. In fact, they have done the exact opposite; American policies have served to increase regional integration. Instead Latin America has moved toward a new regional political organization UNASUR (which EXCLUDES the United States).
Colombia’s new President Santos (of the rightist type) faces a difficult choice – continuing as a puppet of US military confrontation at the cost of billions in trade + isolation from the rest of Latin America - or normalize relations with Venezuela.
It appears Mr. Santos has made his choice.
Is it possible for both countries to keep a peaceful relationship? Yes because when you come right down to it, does Columbia seriously want to ally with the United States?
How does it affect the balance of power in the region?
It weakens the sway of the United States of America in South America.

absolutely not.

I'll wager that Chavez cuts ties with Colombia within 2 months...

What is the significance of this agreement? The sub-text says more than the HYS question?

Colombia and Venezuala have significant links with China for mining rights of gold, silver, platinum and gems?

Expect more ecological disasters within the next decade in both countries from this so-called government 'alliance'?

Chavez is a showman who enjoys the limelight and may break relations again. Most of his deeds are "grand" public statements.

BluesBerry, I'm afraid that you are obsessed with the US and your hatred of all things American skew your view of the situation in Latin America. American "imperial" interests in Latin America are a thing of the past now that the Cold War has ended. American influence in Latin America is now more a product of culture, mass Latin American migration to the US, and trade than military prowess. American integration with Latin America is likely to increase as Americans of Hispanic origin and heritage become the dominant ethnic group in the US.

Chavez did harbor FARC and it has also played host to ETA, much to the chagrin of Spain and France. Chavez was subject to a coup attempt, but there is no proof whatsoever that the US actively supported the plotters. While Chavez may set your heart aflutter, he has many enemies in Venezuela and coups are nothing new in that part of the world, with or without American intervention.

Chavez is in decline. His ties with Castro are too close for comfort for many Venezuelans and correlate with a serious erosion of civil liberties. Crime continues to be rampant and Venezuela's oil-dependent economy is in a precarious position. Venezuelans are a progressive people and displeased with Chavez's alliance with the despotic Iranian regime. Meanwhile, his Bolivarian Revolution has failed to capture the imagination of Latin Americans because the Chavez megalomania is a dominate feature of the movement. Chavez has been overshadowed by Brazil's Lula, who combines leftist policies with true statesmanship, diplomacy, and tact----attributes that Chavez lacks.

Given that Chavez has effectively silenced the opposition via imprisonment, stifling the media, and outright terror, any future election "wins" can no longer be considered democratic.

Chavez made a critical error he nationalised the countrys oil industry, this single act will im certain at some point lead to him being overthrown by a coup instigated by the usa, its not like they havent done it before In 1954, the democratically elected Guatemalan government of Colonel Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán was toppled by U.S.- backed forces lead by Colonel Carlos Castillo Armas[5] who invaded from Honduras. Assigned by the Eisenhower administration, this military opposition was armed, trained and organized by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency[6] (see Operation PBSUCCESS). The directors of United Fruit Company (UFCO) had lobbied to convince the Truman and Eisenhower administrations that Colonel Arbenz intended to align Guatemala with the Soviet Block,

Chavez is a Communist and Communists lie. Virtually every treaty America made with Communists has been broken and cheated on. Mr Chavez says he is not responsable for the Communist FARC gurrillas hiding in his jungle areas but who believes him. He has invited in both the Iranians and Cubans into his country for what end?

Obama should make a trade agreement with Colombia on farm products. Americans will avidly purchase their medicinal cannabis. They prefer a mellow, soothing smoke.

There is no such thing as an "era" between a democratically elected leader and a foreign installed tyranny.

It's good if two leaders can act in the interest of both nations. However, although Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia put aside their ideologies and did business prior to and during WWII look what happened.

Therefore, at this stage I would suggest incremental proofs of 'putting aside their differences in the interest of both nations' in order to put in place statutory agreements for co-operation. This encourages negotiation and manifestation. Might I suggest a 5 year plan?

DCHeretic wrote:

Chavez was subject to a coup attempt, but there is no proof whatsoever that the US actively supported the plotters.

______________________________________________________________________

If Nazis were as blatant as you they could also claim that there is absolute no proof that Germany invaded Poland.

ONE-SICK-PUPPY wrote:

Chavez is a Communist and Communists lie. Virtually every treaty America made with Communists has been broken and cheated on.

_____________________________________________________________________

Both communist and the capitalist lie about themselves but they are usually telling the truth about each other. Capitalism is man's tyranny against man, communism is the other way around.

Mr Chavez is a prime candidate for a regime change. Never trust that jumped up Marxist in a suit. Exile to his mates in Iran.

i don't see any problem with mr chevez as long as there is no war. why do some people in hys call for regime change? if the people in venezuela are happy with mr chevez then who are you to pass judgement. at least he helps the poor and workers instead of ignoreing them like they do in our countries. war never does any good except to enrich the money changers who profit from death and destruction.

You can't trust Chavez.

Uribe is one of the great heros of South America for standing up to tyrants like Chavez and Morales.

I hope the Venezuelans rise up against this tyrant, a military coup would be prefrable to Chavez

i applaud mr chevez because he has the courage to not allow foreign interests, esp international banks to buy up everything, take control of the government, and enslave the people with huge government debt that can never be paid off. thats what has happened to us and things will only get worse. don't beleve everything you see on tv or read in the news.

16. At 4:35pm on 11 Aug 2010, ONE-SICK-PUPPY wrote:

Chavez is a Communist and Communists lie. Virtually every treaty America made with Communists has been broken and cheated on. Mr Chavez says he is not responsable for the Communist FARC gurrillas hiding in his jungle areas but who believes him. He has invited in both the Iranians and Cubans into his country for what end?
- - - -- - - - -----------------------------------------
and the USA never lies? or exploits most of the world in it's pursuance of oil, more money/power wealth. Do you most Americans have any idea what their govt has been doing throughout the world since the second world war? Why do you think most people in the world do not trust USA?
Americans a force for good? Why do they oppose health care help for their own people - how Christain is this? I'm sure Jesus would have made people pay him! They seem good at the old testament stuff an eye for an eye but not on Jesus' teachings 'turn the other cheek' compassion. USA are not a country most would aspire to being like. American politics is full of corruption - money buys power. Interesting that the people of Cuba and Venezuela seem to by and large like and respect Castro and Chavez and reporters who have met them have been impressed with their sincerity.

What do you think really is the big lie? Advanced Capitalism has just been shown to be a shambles. The whole worlds financial markets nearly went inot meltdown. It may well still happen. What then? How do people pay for food etc Capitalism encourages greed indeed it appears to revere greed. Advanced Capitalist societies are producing the biggest income inequalities there has been for hundreds of years. It mostly benefits the already wealthy and always at the expense of the less wealthy. What has this to do with fairness?? Perhaps we need to look at how well Capitalism is working and how happy it is making everyone. We need an alternative to the free market - how about ....a FAIR market??

Neither Communism OR Capitalism (unchecked) appear to work very well after all.

Jackinusa., your working class hero chavez has spent heavily on weapons and has made bellicose threats to other countries. He is the regional dangerman.

14. At 3:32pm on 11 Aug 2010, DCHeretic wrote:

...American influence in Latin America is now more a product of culture, mass Latin American migration to the US, and trade than military prowess. American integration with Latin America is likely to increase as Americans of Hispanic origin and heritage become the dominant ethnic group in the US.
================================================================
I think your current affairs about USA is not very current.
The Republicans want to repeal the 14th amendment.
Follow this link : https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/


Chavez is in decline.
=====================================================
No, America is in decline. If you had read Paul Krugman's NYT piece, he says America is going backwards.eg. roads are unpaved and replaced with gravel because they can't afford to maintain them, street lights are switched off, school time is rationed, etc.

The times... they are a-changing.

12. At 2:36pm on 11 Aug 2010, corum-populo-2010 wrote:

What is the significance of this agreement? The sub-text says more than the HYS question?

Colombia and Venezuala have significant links with China for mining rights of gold, silver, platinum and gems?

Expect more ecological disasters within the next decade in both countries from this so-called government 'alliance'?

==================================================================

Like the one that just happened in the Gulf of Mexico involving BP?

krokodil, didn't i say that you shouldn't believe what you hear on the tv or read in the news papers? just be happy that for now there will be no war.

ref #25
jackinusa wrote:
i applaud mr chevez because he has the courage to not allow foreign interests, esp international banks to buy up everything, take control of the government, and enslave the people with huge government debt that can never be paid off. thats what has happened to us and things will only get worse. don't beleve everything you see on tv or read in the news.

_____________

Do you also applaud Hugo for taking other people property and goods without compensation?

In the U.S we call such a man a theif!

31. At 7:53pm on 11 Aug 2010, MagicKirin wrote:

ref #25
jackinusa wrote:
i applaud mr chevez because he has the courage to not allow foreign interests, esp international banks to buy up everything, take control of the government, and enslave the people with huge government debt that can never be paid off. thats what has happened to us and things will only get worse. don't beleve everything you see on tv or read in the news.

_____________

Do you also applaud Hugo for taking other people property and goods without compensation?

In the U.S we call such a man a theif!
=================================================

I'm sure the US knows that when you are big enough and strong enough, you can even change international laws to steal a country ...like Iraq.

mr magickirin, the federal reseve bank prints money worth only the paper it is printed on and loans the money to the u.s. government for interest. our government owes billions of dollars only on that interest every year. american taxpayers are forced to pay it. i call such an entity here in the u.s. a thief. but i guess corporate raiders and wall street plunderers with their hedge funds, put buys, and toxic derivitives that bankrupt whole nations are your hero's.

to jeff phua, the international bankers don't have to change any laws to steal a country. they just get it so far into debt that it can never be repaid and then forclose. but i guess you think the world would be better governed by a plutonomy?

Jeff Phua wrote:
31. At 7:53pm on 11 Aug 2010, MagicKirin wrote:

ref #25
jackinusa wrote:
i applaud mr chevez because he has the courage to not allow foreign interests, esp international banks to buy up everything, take control of the government, and enslave the people with huge government debt that can never be paid off. thats what has happened to us and things will only get worse. don't beleve everything you see on tv or read in the news.

_____________

Do you also applaud Hugo for taking other people property and goods without compensation?

In the U.S we call such a man a theif!
=================================================

I'm sure the US knows that when you are big enough and strong enough, you can even change international laws to steal a country ...like Iraq.

______________

First the U.S liberated Iraq and unlike Hugo the U.S is not stealing Iraq's resources, which we could use.

Explain to the Hilton Corporation why it is ok for them to spend millions developing and building a resort in Margarita Island and then Chavez takes it without compensation.

People of Venezuela overhtrow this criminal and this time get it done right. Bolivia you do the same with your bigot.

Jeff Phua @28:

Most of the Hispanics in the US are American citizens and any repeal of the 14th Amendment, which by the way is a political ploy that will never come to fruition, will not change the demographics of the US. The Census Bureau has predicted that by the middle of this century, people of Latin American origin will be the largest ethnic group. People of Latin American origin are already the largest minority group in the US, having overtaken African Americans several years ago.

As for the Paul Krugman article in the NYT, I did read it this morning. The global recession has been tough on nearly all countries, but it is far too soon to sweep the US to the dustbin of history. The austerity measures described by Krugman are by no means uniform throughout the US. It's no secret that some states were never well off to begin with. Nearly 90% of Americans have jobs and wages are increasing. The current American unemployment rate is essentially the status quo for Europe. Despite the tough times, I would not trade America's problems for those of any other nation.

As anyone can see i do not see any comments concerning the relationship between the two countries all your getting is americans crying that he nationalised this or that and stole it from the american owner whaaaa whaaaaaaa. like i said its the usa up to it old tricks of trying to dictate how a sovereign nation acts within its own borders.

Well it's good to see two leaders behaving like adults for the sake of their countries. Maybe now we can see the US and Cuba doing the same thing ?

th3_or4cl3, i,m american and i side with hugo chevez because i don't believe everything that spews from the news media as you obviouly do.
AND I'M SO SICK OF HEARING ALL THE ANTI AMERICAN RANT AND CRYING FROM ALL THE JEALOUS AMERICA HATERS, WHAAAA WHAAAAAAAAAA.

Sure it will last...until the next time Columbia does something to get Chavez' nose out of joint or he gets caught again supporting Columbian rebels and then they'll both rattle their sabers and talk tough until it blows over again.

Everyone should remember that Columbia has provided proff of Hugo hosting FARC terrorists.

The Calm before the Storm.

They have no choice but to appear to not hate each other. They have a powerful common enemy that threatens their culture and economies -- the USA.
Both leaders know how American Imperialism has totally dominated the region in the past, and will do what it takes to keep that threat at bay.

JackinUSA " applauds mr chevez because he has the courage to not allow foreign interests, esp international banks to buy up everything, take control of the government, and enslave the people with huge government debt that can never be paid off. thats what has happened to us and things will only get worse. don't beleve everything you see on tv or read in the news."

So you have been to Venezuela. You know the country well. You have enough direct experience that you can form an opinion without watching tv or reading the news.

Or do you just bear animus against "international bankers"?

Hmmm?

Your advice to Colombia's new President:

Have a great day darling and try no to perspire too much.

35. At 9:05pm on 11 Aug 2010, MagicKirin wrote:

Jeff Phua wrote:
31. At 7:53pm on 11 Aug 2010, MagicKirin wrote:

ref #25
jackinusa wrote:
i applaud mr chevez because he has the courage to not allow foreign interests, esp international banks to buy up everything, take control of the government, and enslave the people with huge government debt that can never be paid off. thats what has happened to us and things will only get worse. don't beleve everything you see on tv or read in the news.

_____________

Do you also applaud Hugo for taking other people property and goods without compensation?

In the U.S we call such a man a theif!
=================================================

I'm sure the US knows that when you are big enough and strong enough, you can even change international laws to steal a country ...like Iraq.

______________

First the U.S liberated Iraq and unlike Hugo the U.S is not stealing Iraq's resources, which we could use.

Explain to the Hilton Corporation why it is ok for them to spend millions developing and building a resort in Margarita Island and then Chavez takes it without compensation.

People of Venezuela overhtrow this criminal and this time get it done right. Bolivia you do the same with your bigot.
====================================================================

If you want to know more about a certain subject, like the Hilton Margarita, you need to dig a little deeper. If you read Spanish the link is : https://www.telesurtv.net/noticias/secciones/nota/59597-NN/mayoria-accionaria-de-hotel-margarita-hilton-pertenecia-al-estado-venezolano-desde-hace-14-anos/
If you only read English a shorter report is :https://www.etaiwannews.com/etn/news_content.php?id=1082111&lang=eng_news&cate_img=35.jpg&cate_rss=news_Business

Basically it says:
Tourism Minister Pedro Morejón today revealed:

-- The majority of shares in the Hotel Margarita Hilton have been in the hands of the Venezuelan government the past 14 years, since the banking crisis of 1995. (This would have been five years before Hugo Chavez was first elected.)

-- The Hilton chain had a contract to administer the hotel that expired yesterday (Oct. 13).

-- So the government acted yesterday to acquire the rest of the shares (100 percent.)

Don't believe everything you read in mainstream media. Same goes for the liberation of Iraq - it depends very much on the media you choose to believe in, without first cross-checking other sources out there. [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

34. At 8:38pm on 11 Aug 2010, jackinusa wrote:

to jeff phua, the international bankers don't have to change any laws to steal a country. they just get it so far into debt that it can never be repaid and then forclose. but i guess you think the world would be better governed by a plutonomy?
===================================================================

Thanks for the reminder that the US is already governed by a plutonomy. Obama is trying to reverse that and I don't know if he'll succeed. Hope he does.
As for the rest of the world, I guess they've learned that no bank is too big to fail.

36. At 9:23pm on 11 Aug 2010, DCHeretic wrote:

Jeff Phua @28:

Most of the Hispanics in the US are American citizens and any repeal of the 14th Amendment, which by the way is a political ploy that will never come to fruition, will not change the demographics of the US. The Census Bureau has predicted that by the middle of this century, people of Latin American origin will be the largest ethnic group. People of Latin American origin are already the largest minority group in the US, having overtaken African Americans several years ago.

As for the Paul Krugman article in the NYT, I did read it this morning. The global recession has been tough on nearly all countries, but it is far too soon to sweep the US to the dustbin of history. The austerity measures described by Krugman are by no means uniform throughout the US. It's no secret that some states were never well off to begin with. Nearly 90% of Americans have jobs and wages are increasing. The current American unemployment rate is essentially the status quo for Europe. Despite the tough times, I would not trade America's problems for those of any other nation.
=====================================================================
It still does not change the fact that America's influence is in decline.
You wrote, "The current American unemployment rate is essentially the status quo for Europe."
When you need to compare yourself with the worst, rather than the best, I guess it doesn't say very much.

Last week's topic "is UK TV licence value for money?". Answer: Yes, if you are a North or South American that pays zilch but not if you are a licence payer. Why on earth should anyone in the UK care about these two countries. There are more relevant issues that can be discussed. Off track topics like this only increase the moderation time taken on UK issues.

It's good news, I think. Here and without confrontation it is a lot of problems.

ref #46
If you want to know more about a certain subject, like the Hilton Margarita, you need to dig a little deeper. If you read Spanish the link is : [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
If you only read English a shorter report is :https://www.etaiwannews.com/etn/news_content.php?id=1082111&lang=eng_news&cate_img=35.jpg&cate_rss=news_Business

Basically it says:
Tourism Minister Pedro Morejón today revealed:

-- The majority of shares in the Hotel Margarita Hilton have been in the hands of the Venezuelan government the past 14 years, since the banking crisis of 1995. (This would have been five years before Hugo Chavez was first elected.)

-- The Hilton chain had a contract to administer the hotel that expired yesterday (Oct. 13).

-- So the government acted yesterday to acquire the rest of the shares (100 percent.)

Don't believe everything you read in mainstream media. Same goes for the liberation of Iraq - it depends very much on the media you choose to believe in, without first cross-checking other sources out there. [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
_______________

Don't believe everyting you read from a dictators propganda dept.

Here is one of mnay links you can google on the subject If you want to know more about a certain subject, like the Hilton Margarita, you need to dig a little deeper. If you read Spanish the link is : [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
If you only read English a shorter report is :https://www.etaiwannews.com/etn/news_content.php?id=1082111&lang=eng_news&cate_img=35.jpg&cate_rss=news_Business

Basically it says:
Tourism Minister Pedro Morejón today revealed:

-- The majority of shares in the Hotel Margarita Hilton have been in the hands of the Venezuelan government the past 14 years, since the banking crisis of 1995. (This would have been five years before Hugo Chavez was first elected.)

-- The Hilton chain had a contract to administer the hotel that expired yesterday (Oct. 13).

-- So the government acted yesterday to acquire the rest of the shares (100 percent.)
____________

Don't believes everything you hear from the dictator's propganda dept.

Here is one of many articles you can read on the truth of Hugo' theft

https://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=cng.641f6a1ace6620056b73f6b56e7b6cd8.b31

You and Chavistas like Sean Penn and Danny Glover will support any theft, human rights violation or terrorism support by Chavez because he called GWB the devil.

Chavez needs to be very very careful, as the US still has their claws in them, and with the US's shameful and illegal coup attempt they will surely be back causing trouble. The US is surely pointing there snipers and colombia needs the good US ties in order for it to keep peddling the Cocaine into the US. US backs non elected governments and challenges democracy in SOuth America and as long as it does that it is a terrorist in that continent!

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

46. At 07:18am on 12 Aug 2010, Jeff Phua wrote:
35. At 9:05pm on 11 Aug 2010, MagicKirin wrote:

Jeff Phua wrote:
31. At 7:53pm on 11 Aug 2010, MagicKirin wrote:

ref #25
jackinusa wrote:
i applaud mr chevez because he has the courage to not allow foreign interests, esp international banks to buy up everything, take control of the government, and enslave the people with huge government debt that can never be paid off. thats what has happened to us and things will only get worse. don't beleve everything you see on tv or read in the news.

_____________

Do you also applaud Hugo for taking other people property and goods without compensation?

In the U.S we call such a man a theif!
=================================================

I'm sure the US knows that when you are big enough and strong enough, you can even change international laws to steal a country ...like Iraq.

______________

First the U.S liberated Iraq and unlike Hugo the U.S is not stealing Iraq's resources, which we could use.

Explain to the Hilton Corporation why it is ok for them to spend millions developing and building a resort in Margarita Island and then Chavez takes it without compensation.

People of Venezuela overhtrow this criminal and this time get it done right. Bolivia you do the same with your bigot.
====================================================================

Are you joking, are you really saying that the US has not received numerouus re-construction contractts in Iraq and to be paid silly amounts in Iraqi Oil? Are you seriously saying that the £40billion reconstrucion money which is unaccoutnable for, just disappeared? teh iraqis are running round in fur coats or something? The US Is a theif and is challenging democracy in many parts of the world and supporting apartheid in others! Wht the US did to chavez in the illegal Coup proves they just want their puppets in their for favourable rates in oil in exchange for US arms, and stoke arguments between south american nations and chavez is right! he liberated teh wealth in to the hands of the people and not the elite western sponsored theives!

think scarface said it best, "never like colombian" the country is run by crooks and drug dealers, and supported by a murdering and torturing bully, hell bent on being hell bent!

ref #55
Are you joking, are you really saying that the US has not received numerouus re-construction contractts in Iraq and to be paid silly amounts in Iraqi Oil? Are you seriously saying that the £40billion reconstrucion money which is unaccoutnable for, just disappeared? teh iraqis are running round in fur coats or something? The US Is a theif and is challenging democracy in many parts of the world and supporting apartheid in others! Wht the US did to chavez in the illegal Coup proves they just want their puppets in their for favourable rates in oil in exchange for US arms, and stoke arguments between south american nations and chavez is right! he liberated teh wealth in to the hands of the people and not the elite western sponsored theives!
_____________

First the U.S did not sponsor the coup and it would have been better if we had given more support to the heroic soilders who were trying to rid their country of a madman.

You are still not explain the justification for Hugo's theft of other's property

Second how come China is getting so many deals in Iraq if the U.S was doing it for the money

Venezuela and Columbia need to bury the hatchet, turn the page and move on to regional security. Hugo Chavez loves the limelight and too much emphasis should not be placed on his flamboyant leadership style. Cultivating good ties with him would give a boost to trade and security in the region. Bygones should certainly be bygones.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

All the nice things are being said now along with the related photo-ops but just wait, as usual Chavez will lose his bearings claim the U.S. and Columbia are in cahoots resulting in the dainty house of cards falling apart.

Now why in the world would America launch a coup against Chavez, when Obama and Chavez are ideological buddies like two Commie peas in a pod? Like when they first met and Chavez hands Obama this rabid Anti-American book and Obama holds it up for the cameras with this big cheesy grin on his face. Chavez is Obama's role model as he steals the wealth of Capitalists, Redistributes the accumulated wealth of others to the so-called masses, and shuts down and arrests whatever media outlets oppose him. No Obama has only envy adulation for Mr. Chavez and has no reason to launch any coups against his ideological buddy.
No, as long as Obama remains in the White House Mr Chavez, Castro, Ahmedenajad, Kim Il Jung, nor any other international dictators will have to worry about any US inspired coups.

56. At 10:51am on 12 Aug 2010, MagicKirin wrote:

ref #55
Are you joking, are you really saying that the US has not received numerouus re-construction contractts in Iraq and to be paid silly amounts in Iraqi Oil? Are you seriously saying that the £40billion reconstrucion money which is unaccoutnable for, just disappeared? teh iraqis are running round in fur coats or something? The US Is a theif and is challenging democracy in many parts of the world and supporting apartheid in others! Wht the US did to chavez in the illegal Coup proves they just want their puppets in their for favourable rates in oil in exchange for US arms, and stoke arguments between south american nations and chavez is right! he liberated teh wealth in to the hands of the people and not the elite western sponsored theives!
_____________

First the U.S did not sponsor the coup and it would have been better if we had given more support to the heroic soilders who were trying to rid their country of a madman.
=====================================================================
Yes, it did.


You are still not explain the justification for Hugo's theft of other's property
==================================================================
It's already been explained in #46
The contract expired. So the Venezuelan Government took it back. What's so difficult to understand? The trick that questionable media uses is to put damaging words in quotation marks like "acquisition by force" and then quote it out of context. If you had cared to do a little background check, you wouldn't be so quick to accuse.


Second how come China is getting so many deals in Iraq if the U.S was doing it for the money
=============================================================
This is a no-brainer. US sold the rights to anyone who was interested.

There are always two sides to the same story. If you choose to believe only one side, neither Sean Penn, Danny Glover nor Mother Theresa can make you think otherwise.

And could you care to explain what happened to the billions of dollars meant for Iraqi reconstruction that were unaccounted for?

Once again Hugo Chavez supporters seem to love him because he hates the United States.

It doesn't matter that he throws his political opponents in jail, seizes property without compensation, shuts down opposition newspapers, tries to amend the Constitution to make him permanent President. And lets not forget that he's a lousy leader as demonstrated by a ruined economy (despite high oil prices) and can't even provide basic electricity.

It just doesn't matter - who cares about Democracy, freedom of speech, property rights etc. What counts is he's got a loud mouth an rants about the USA.

The new president of Colombia will follow the same path as Uribe,there will be no betterment in the relations between these 2 "brother"-countries,since the dream of S.Bolivar of "Gran Colombia".The main issues are the political philosophies that are oposite:Chavez's socialism,that shares some common values with the
Marxist/Leninist/Guevarist guerillas,and Uribe's/Santos's neo-liberalist views,that bring them close to the AUC(Right-wing paramilitaries),as if the conflict within Colombia would always remind us of the broader picture of Latin America.Now that the US is getting more involved with the use of 7 airbases,we know that they will be able to patrol all over South America daily (They have a huge base in Paraguay,bases in Curacao/Bonaire from the Dutch next to Venezuela...) and we do not doubt that they will fight undercover the guerillas,so I
hope that the Russians will help Venezuela to defend itself in case of
problems,so we could see something like Cold War 2!!!...

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

62. At 6:17pm on 12 Aug 2010, cynic555 wrote:

Once again Hugo Chavez supporters seem to love him because he hates the United States.
======================================================================
It is precisely this simplistic view that led us to two stupid wars.
"You are either with us or you are with the terrorists". Remember?
No middle ground.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

ref #61
It's already been explained in #46
The contract expired. So the Venezuelan Government took it back. What's so difficult to understand? The trick that questionable media uses is to put damaging words in quotation marks like "acquisition by force" and then quote it out of context. If you had cared to do a little background check, you wouldn't be so quick to accuse.

________________

Your link is not true. Hilton entered into no such agreement. You do not build and invest in a resort and than expect to give it to someone else for nothing.

The link i provided ref #51 is a outside source not a progandist.

ref #65
Jeff Phua wrote:
62. At 6:17pm on 12 Aug 2010, cynic555 wrote:

Once again Hugo Chavez supporters seem to love him because he hates the United States.
======================================================================
It is precisely this simplistic view that led us to two stupid wars.
"You are either with us or you are with the terrorists". Remember?
No middle ground.

__________

Explain why Glover, Penn Sheehans and Joe Kennedy excuse his many human rights violations and his proven support of the FARC terrorists?

Hugo's buddies in FARC just bombed a radio station in Columbia, so it appears the honeymoon is over.

67. At 9:00pm on 12 Aug 2010, MagicKirin wrote:

ref #61
It's already been explained in #46
The contract expired. So the Venezuelan Government took it back. What's so difficult to understand? The trick that questionable media uses is to put damaging words in quotation marks like "acquisition by force" and then quote it out of context. If you had cared to do a little background check, you wouldn't be so quick to accuse.

________________

Your link is not true. Hilton entered into no such agreement. You do not build and invest in a resort and than expect to give it to someone else for nothing.

The link i provided ref #51 is a outside source not a progandist.
==================================================================

Your link is also not true.
No company is stupid enough to build and invest in a resort in a foreign land without first going into an agreement. And when the contract expires, you negotiate a new one.
Still cannot understand?

You still have not explained why the Taiwan News is a propaganda department of Venezuela.

You still have not explained why the billions of dollars meant for Iraq reconstruction fund were unaccounted for.

Waiting for your explanation.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

No reason Why Not.
Having survived a US Sponsored Coup, Chavez naturally has No Trust for Anyone under US Dominance. So long as Santos remains his own Man they should be okay. Many Colombians live in Venezuela and vice versa.

Chavez cut-out the US Middleman from Venezuela/S America Oil Trade and US wants back In, he also signed to supply Iran with Petrol (imagine sitting on Iran's Oil and forced to buy Petrol).
Venezuela also has plans to buy S American Debt from IMF & WB to give them some chance for Economic Recovery, something US is definitely against.

With Haiti under US control and Honduras fallen to US sponsored Coup(no other nation recognises new Honduran Govt),Venezuela and all of S America have reason to stay Vigilant. Earlier this year S America and Caribbean formed an Org specifically excluding Canada and US.

Chavez problem was with Uribe Selling-Out to US. So much that US Aid was tied to Body-Count of Dead Peasants because Corps wanted their land for Mega Plantations. Colombia's Military and Right-Wing Death Squads were caught dressing Peasant Corpses in Military Fatigues to boost US Aid.

Fact is Uribe ran the most Corrupt Govt in S America. Most of Military brass were forced to Resign past year or so, the country is crawling with 'US Private Contractors'(XE aka Blackwater), and while Coca Acreage went Down under Uribe, Cocaine Production went UP at the same time. Figure that one out.

Wait for the possible increase in anti-Washington DC speel that could come from it...

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

ref #72
lordBanners wrote:
No reason Why Not.
Having survived a US Sponsored Coup, Chavez naturally has No Trust for Anyone under US Dominance. So long as Santos remains his own Man they should be okay. Many Colombians live in Venezuela and vice versa.
(it was not U.S sponsored, the U.S did not object strenously to it, nor should we. Why did a recent coup in a former Russia satelite get so litte protest)

Chavez cut-out the US Middleman from Venezuela/S America Oil Trade and US wants back In, he also signed to supply Iran with Petrol (imagine sitting on Iran's Oil and forced to buy Petrol).
Venezuela also has plans to buy S American Debt from IMF & WB to give them some chance for Economic Recovery, something US is definitely against.
(So again a company makes an investment indevelopment and time and than Hugo does not compensate them fairly, it's called theft. I trust the integrity of most private oil company then a man who stole the last 2 elections like Chavez)

With Haiti under US control and Honduras fallen to US sponsored Coup(no other nation recognises new Honduran Govt),Venezuela and all of S America have reason to stay Vigilant. Earlier this year S America and Caribbean formed an Org specifically excluding Canada and US.

(First several Latin American recognize the Houdoran govt, second the President was depsoed internally fro trying to become President for life like Chavez did. Btw he was funded by Chavez who does the intefering in other countries like Columbia, Hondures and Mexico, finally the bogus coalition is 5 countries ll run by autocrats who run police states)
Chavez problem was with Uribe Selling-Out to US. So much that US Aid was tied to Body-Count of Dead Peasants because Corps wanted their land for Mega Plantations. Colombia's Military and Right-Wing Death Squads were caught dressing Peasant Corpses in Military Fatigues to boost US Aid.

Fact is Uribe ran the most Corrupt Govt in S America. Most of Military brass were forced to Resign past year or so, the country is crawling with 'US Private Contractors'(XE aka Blackwater), and while Coca Acreage went Down under Uribe, Cocaine Production went UP at the same time. Figure that one out.

Uribe is the greatest leader in that region, far more honorable than Chaves, Morales and Corea who send out dignity battalions and rewrite the counstitution to bePresident for life. He would be a great U.N sec General. He is also trust to be an honest mediator in the Israeli Turkish dispute)

Could Santos and Chaves negotiate the FARC rebels out of Colombia?

ref #70
Your link is also not true.
No company is stupid enough to build and invest in a resort in a foreign land without first going into an agreement. And when the contract expires, you negotiate a new one.
Still cannot understand?
___________

You don't understand business, there are so many hotel groups with investment and properties all over the world. there is no such agreement that any would make that says we will build and develop a hotel and than 10 years later give it to the local goverment without being paid compensation.

That is what the Venezuela theif did. He has also claimed the Hilton corp did not show him enough respect.

Well Hugo you are a war criminal

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

It's probably not a new era, as Chavez remains a jumped-up tinpot agitator, the latest in a long and sorry line of Hispanic caudillos.

It is easy to dismiss Chavez because of his image as a foaming-at-the mouth buffoon. But remember that comical-looking leaders (Hitler, Mussolini) can turn out to be vicious and evil. I think he will hang on to power as long as possible, especially as long as the US continues to prop up its South American puppets, and he will remain a source of regional instability.

A new era for South America will come when the US withdraws (as it may be forced to do so through economic decline and the ongoing mass Hispanic immigration that is leading to sensitive vote-banks in the US) and when the ugly caudillos like Chavez step back into the shadows of their own fears and fantasies. Otherwise, the Chavez-Colombia spat can be interpreted as a sort of local reverberation of the controversies that had dislocated Soth America for generations.

77. At 12:45pm on 13 Aug 2010, MagicKirin wrote:

ref #70
Your link is also not true.
No company is stupid enough to build and invest in a resort in a foreign land without first going into an agreement. And when the contract expires, you negotiate a new one.
Still cannot understand?
___________

You don't understand business, there are so many hotel groups with investment and properties all over the world. there is no such agreement that any would make that says we will build and develop a hotel and than 10 years later give it to the local goverment without being paid compensation.

That is what the Venezuela theif did. He has also claimed the Hilton corp did not show him enough respect.

Well Hugo you are a war criminal
====================================================================
I am a business man. Before making a deal with a foreign government, I have to first understand their law. If I can make enough profit after building the resort, after signing a 20 year contract, I will go for it.
What happens after 20 years depends on a new contract. If the new contract is not favorable to me, I pull out. There are also costs involved in pulling out that you may not know. Costs like restoring the site to it's original condition that can be prohibitive.

As far as I, and many are concerned, this is a commercial deal and funny people are making political hay out of it. If Hilton feels hard done by, why has it not gone to an international trade arbitration court like the WTO?

Why are you so angry with Chavez? You keep calling him a thief just because of one Breitbart report. "Acquisition by force" does not mean "steal". It can also mean that illegal occupants do not want to leave after a contract expires and they don't want to negotiate a new contract.

And Hugo is a war criminal? Why? Because it called GWB the devil and claimed that the Hilton Corp did not show him enough respect.

You are good at connecting dots.. I can't.

ref #80
I am a business man. Before making a deal with a foreign government, I have to first understand their law. If I can make enough profit after building the resort, after signing a 20 year contract, I will go for it.
What happens after 20 years depends on a new contract. If the new contract is not favorable to me, I pull out. There are also costs involved in pulling out that you may not know. Costs like restoring the site to it's original condition that can be prohibitive.

As far as I, and many are concerned, this is a commercial deal and funny people are making political hay out of it. If Hilton feels hard done by, why has it not gone to an international trade arbitration court like the WTO?

Why are you so angry with Chavez? You keep calling him a thief just because of one Breitbart report. "Acquisition by force" does not mean "steal". It can also mean that illegal occupants do not want to leave after a contract expires and they don't want to negotiate a new contract.

And Hugo is a war criminal? Why? Because it called GWB the devil and claimed that the Hilton Corp did not show him enough respect.

You are good at connecting dots.. I can't.
________________

Since Hilton does work all over the world, I am inclined to think they know the laws of the countries they do business in.

Since Hugo changes the law to suit his needs Hilton has cleans hands.

I use this example because when I bring up oil, his supporters say it is national interest and that is more important than fair commerce.

You can't claim that for a resort on Magarita island.

As far as why I hate Chavez.

Maybe bvecuase he supports terrorism in his region against other democracies around the world and inteferes in several countries internal affairs in this hemisphere.

He is also a dictator.
Enough reasons?

81. At 7:19pm on 13 Aug 2010, MagicKirin wrote:

ref #80
I am a business man. Before making a deal with a foreign government, I have to first understand their law. If I can make enough profit after building the resort, after signing a 20 year contract, I will go for it.
What happens after 20 years depends on a new contract. If the new contract is not favorable to me, I pull out. There are also costs involved in pulling out that you may not know. Costs like restoring the site to it's original condition that can be prohibitive.

As far as I, and many are concerned, this is a commercial deal and funny people are making political hay out of it. If Hilton feels hard done by, why has it not gone to an international trade arbitration court like the WTO?

Why are you so angry with Chavez? You keep calling him a thief just because of one Breitbart report. "Acquisition by force" does not mean "steal". It can also mean that illegal occupants do not want to leave after a contract expires and they don't want to negotiate a new contract.

And Hugo is a war criminal? Why? Because it called GWB the devil and claimed that the Hilton Corp did not show him enough respect.

You are good at connecting dots.. I can't.
________________

Since Hilton does work all over the world, I am inclined to think they know the laws of the countries they do business in.

Since Hugo changes the law to suit his needs Hilton has cleans hands.

I use this example because when I bring up oil, his supporters say it is national interest and that is more important than fair commerce.

You can't claim that for a resort on Magarita island.

As far as why I hate Chavez.

Maybe bvecuase he supports terrorism in his region against other democracies around the world and inteferes in several countries internal affairs in this hemisphere.

He is also a dictator.
Enough reasons?

========================================================================

You bring up this example because the other example (when you bring up oil) doesn't hold water. Now you admit that this example doesn't hold water either. Good.

Every country do deals for national interest. Only a fool will think that they do it because of fair commerce. It's a dog eat dog world out there, don't you know? Commerce is just willing buyer and willing seller. Profit is never split 50/50.

As to why you hate Chavez, you now call him a dictator and a supporter of terrorism. At least we are getting somewhere, because you have stopped calling him a thief.

But the real reason is because you are letting off steam. The US economy is not doing very well. Billions of dollars that the US holds meant for the reconstruction cannot be accounted for. Congress cannot pass laws because of the party of "no". And you choose to believe some bad stories about a "dictator" who has been democratically elected who does deals for "national interest", as you stated.

C'mon. Things cannot be so bad that you have to get angry with people like Sean Penn and Dennis Glover who do not share your views.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

81. At 7:19pm on 13 Aug 2010, MagicKirin wrote:

ref #80
I am a business man. Before making a deal with a foreign government, I have to first understand their law. If I can make enough profit after building the resort, after signing a 20 year contract, I will go for it.
What happens after 20 years depends on a new contract. If the new contract is not favorable to me, I pull out. There are also costs involved in pulling out that you may not know. Costs like restoring the site to it's original condition that can be prohibitive.

As far as I, and many are concerned, this is a commercial deal and funny people are making political hay out of it. If Hilton feels hard done by, why has it not gone to an international trade arbitration court like the WTO?

Why are you so angry with Chavez? You keep calling him a thief just because of one Breitbart report. "Acquisition by force" does not mean "steal". It can also mean that illegal occupants do not want to leave after a contract expires and they don't want to negotiate a new contract.

And Hugo is a war criminal? Why? Because it called GWB the devil and claimed that the Hilton Corp did not show him enough respect.

You are good at connecting dots.. I can't.
________________

Since Hilton does work all over the world, I am inclined to think they know the laws of the countries they do business in.

================================================================
Of course, they do. But you don't.
Did you see the word "steal" in the Breitbart report? I didn't.
Did you read any statement from Hilton Corp? I didn't.
Do you trust the Breitbart report? I don't.
Everything is insinuation. Nothing is factual. It is meant for fools to connect the dots.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Colombia could export medicinal cannabis and coca to America for better revenue. States like California prefer the plants. Colombia suffers from poverty. Congress needs to relax their prohibitions on trade.

MagicKirin wrote:


And Hugo is a war criminal? Why? Because it called GWB the devil and claimed that the Hilton Corp did not show him enough respect.

He is also a dictator. Enough reasons?

_____________________________________________________________________

Racist dogmatist think the terms Dictator and War Criminal mean to oppose their racist dogma. Apparently you don't even need a war to become a war criminal. Hugo Chavez beat your thugs many times in elections and referendums, even your brutal media like CNN wouldn't dare call tainted.

Apparently beating a capitalist thug in an elections in a war crime. Most popular leaders in South America are "War Criminals" according to the racist thugs. Bet Brazil's Lula is also a "War Criminal" in your book.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

ref #87
Apparently you don't even need a war to become a war criminal. Hugo Chavez beat your thugs many times in elections and referendums, even your brutal media like CNN wouldn't dare call tainted.

(The thugs are from Hugo party, they beat up uo oppenenets and shyut down opposition stations who dare to criticize and not run his 10 propanda speeches)

Apparently beating a capitalist thug in an elections in a war crime. Most popular leaders in South America are "War Criminals" according to the racist thugs. Bet Brazil's Lula is also a "War Criminal" in your book.
(But Lulu has given cover to the world leading terrorist nation Iran)