By Betsan Powys BBC Wales Political Editor

The finance minister says there is an extra �74m to spend

So here we are again. The opposition parties won't go for it and until they do, next year's budget is in limbo. Pretty much like last year then.

Why does it matter? The simple maths means the minority Welsh Assembly Government needs support from the opposition parties to get the budget through.

By joining forces and putting forward their own 'wish list' - not that they accept that sort of language of course - the smaller parties make the most of their fire power.

And to be clear 'they' include the two independent members, John Marek and Trish Law, AMs for Wrexham and Blaenau Gwent.

What they want in the budget will be part of the negotiations too. Their votes are needed so they want their voices heard.

'Good natured'

Those negotiations got under way last week. In an attempt to make things run more smoothly this year Finance Minister Sue Essex met with the opposition parties to hear where they wanted the money to go.

She thought it went rather well. Nick Bourne, leader of the Welsh Conservatives, said the talks had been "perfectly good natured".

But this new approach has not worked. How could it, asks the opposition? If the assembly government is saying that there is only an extra �74m to spend.

The 'only' makes sense when you consider the overall amount the assembly government has to spend is over �14bn and it has already been allocated before even showing the draft budget to the opposition.

The opposition is asking how could the government genuinely say it is taking their views on board?

'Genuine'

What are they unhappy with? They want more money for the poorest farmers who are part of the Tir Mynydd scheme or proof that Europe has deemed it an inefficient use of resources.

The list goes on... money returned to schools equivalent to efficiency savings made last year; an increase in the budget for the ambulance service, higher education and community radio.

What they won't say is how much this will cost. Why show their hand, they say, when they're about to embark on what could be many weeks of talking and bargaining.

One little footnote for those whose money is on a rainbow coalition taking over after next May's elections - as the three opposition party leaders walked in to their joint press conference - not a sight you see here every day - Lib Dem leader Mike German was told the cameramen had missed the moment.

Could they walk in again please? "Shall we fake a walk in for you?" he offered helpfully. "Hey it's a genuine walk in!" came Nick Bourne's response. Were they practising for next May? They wouldn't be drawn.