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Last Updated: Friday, 17 September, 2004, 13:22 GMT 14:22 UK
Can binge drinking be linked to crime?
Woman in distress
A police chief is warning women about the dangers of binge drinking and potential sex attacks.

Lothian and Borders chief constable Paddy Tomkins said excessive drinking was a contributing factor to a rise in attacks in the Edinburgh area.

The force has reported a 14% increase in rapes and serious sexual assaults during the year up to August.

Do you agree with the police? Can binge drinking be linked to a rise in sex attacks? We asked for your views.


Three cheers for the chief constable for stating the bleeding obvious. Let's hope the politically correct army don't crucify him. The fact is if you make yourself vulnerable - and being blind drunk does that - then you are more likely to be attacked, that's how it is.
Tom Mcara, Glasgow

The message sent out here is appalling... this implication is that men commit rape just because they have the opportunity of a woman to drunk to stop them. Whilst binge drinking isn't a good idea, surely the actual problem is the men who do these things ? The chief constable has made no comments about how horrific it is that the number of men committing these crimes has gone up, or pointed out that binge drinking is a contributory factor in the men commiting these violent crimes. Women drinking hard is seen as unnatural in a way it isn't for men, and yet again there is the implication that women who are victims of crime would have been OK if they had just stuck to the gender stereotypes and behaved like nice girls should.
Susan, Glasgow, Scotland

I worked in various bars /clubs for almost eight years whilst a student.This is not an outdated view - this sadly is a reality. Binge drinking is a major problem throughout the UK due to the sheer volume of licensed premises allowed within our city centres and our whole approach as to alcohol as a nation .Key word here is 'potential' - women directly are not to blame - they are entitled to enjoy themselves just as much as the next person - this is simply down to commonsense - be aware - know when to stop.You are responsible for your own wellbeing. It is a sad but true fact that there are people in our society only to willing to take advantage of someone in a vulnerable state wether they be young, old or male or female.
Chris, Glasgow

Any woman who deliberately misinterprets the police's comments as being discriminatory does herself and her gender a grave disservice. The police are quite obviously (and rightly) trying to draw attention to the fact that any woman who renders herself incapable through drink makes herself far more vulnerable to the low-life predators who spend their Friday and Saturday nights on the look-out for such easy prey. These women make themselves targets. Grow up and deal with it. If you want the "right to get as drunk as men", then be prepared to put up with the same risks (in men's cases it's being beaten and robbed). Go on, be a devil, drink a bit less (and be able to remember what you did the night before).
Steve , Warrington, UK

I agree that we should be more responsible about our drinking habits, but there are many situations in which we become vulnerable to attack. The increasing incidence of drink spiking springs to mind. With regards to heavy drinking, I don't think that the argument about rape and the people who commit it in these circumstances is about a victim being able to say NO. At the end of the day, whether a potential victim is aware of the impending attack or not, no-one has the right to commit rape in ANY situation. Clearly, in other circumstances a woman may say NO but heavy drinking doesn't allow you to make this choice as your awareness is dulled. However, this doesn't get away from the fact that men are taking advantage of the condition these women are in. Rape isn't the only crime that can befall us when we are extremely drunk and to me it makes good sense that we don't leave ourselves completely vulnerable to ANY form of attack.
Viv, Fort William, Scotland

I have the perfect right to walk down the street with a wad of �50 sticking out of my back pocket and to do so without being mugged. However, if I did and I were robbed, part of the fault would be mine for being so stupid. Women who get incapably drunk have all the rights of those that choose to remain sober but will be at much greater risk. It's not sexist to point that out and to suggest they take greater care over their safety.
Bill, UK

I unfortunately think the police are right - as they are not trying to say that you shouldn�t go out and enjoy yourself at the weekends, but the sad truth is that getting drunk does lower your defences against these evil rapists and does make you an easier target. There�s no getting away from it. But guarding yourself against a spiked drink is almost impossible as you don�t have to be drunk for that to happen - so are women supposed to stay in and never venture into a pub again?
Mel, Aberdeen

There always seems to be some excuse for men to get away with rape. While I don't approve of binge drinking, rapists have no excuse for their behaviour and we should stop giving them one. I think the police should concentrate more on getting prosecutions for rapists. At the moment only 7% of reported rapes end in conviction which is frankly appalling. What's worse are the pathetic sentences handed down. One or two years is nothing. Rapists should get life sentences as they destroy people's lives. Forget binge drinking - bring in a stonger deterent!
Gillian, Edinburgh

I don�t believe the report is suggesting that women are being held responsible for men�s actions. Instead it is suggesting is that when women get that drunk they are making themselves more vulnerable and are easier victims to those men who are looking to take advantage of the situation. If you get so drunk that you can hardly stand or remember anything the next morning how do you expect to be able to fend off unwanted advances?
Donna, Glasgow, Scotland

Why do we have to find someone or something (police, government, binge drinking, the victim) to blame for a rise in sex attacks? Surely the blame for any assault lies with the perpetrator?
Pat, UK

Paddy Tomkins is right to a degree, we do have to make sure we are in a fit state to be in control of ourselves but it's not the victim of crime who is to blame. If he has noticed a 14% increase in this sort of crime in the past year has he increased his forces presence in the areas and at the times that these attacks take place? Isn't it better that he used his position to prevent these attacks than to try to explain why there has been an increase?
Bob, UK

Chief constable Paddy Tomkins has a point; we need to be vigilant when out drinking and excessive drinking can prevent us from doing so. Whether we are keeping a look out for our money and mobile phone in the pub, or trying to ensure we are not been followed on the walk home. Simple measures such as rape alarms, not stopping to light a cigarette, crossing the road repeatedly if you feel you�re been followed and basic self defence are all easier to manage if you are not excessively drunk. However, of the people I know who have been attacked it has happened when they have been sober.
Iona, Livingston, UK

Binge drinking makes people much more vulnerable to attacks of all types - sexual attacks, theft and acts of random violence. Both men and women lose their awareness and make themselves easy targets of crime as they "walk"/stagger home. When you're young the health effects of binge drinking just don't register.
Sarah , Edinburgh

To be fair, I don't think the police chief is suggesting women are to blame for men's actions, just that we can all take some responsibility for our situation. If my house were to be burgled, I would be the victim of another's actions, but I still make sure my house is locked and secure to try to avoid being robbed, just the same!
Cath P, London, UK

While I totally agree that women should be able to do what they want and wear what they want, I think we should take responsibility for our actions. While rape is totally inexcusable in any circumstances, and the blame is solely on the male in these cases, rapists will look for an easy target. A woman who is very drunk and barely able to coordinate her own movements is a much easier target than someone who is sober with their wits about them. I know if I am walking somewhere on my own at night I am constantly keeping an eye out for any dodgy characters. I would be less aware of my surroundings after several drinks. We don't let kids out on their own after dark (or at daytime sometimes) as they are vulnerable. This is accepted as commonsense in the society we live in. Not getting drunk to the point where you can't look after yourself, should also be common sense. By all means, let's go out girls and have have a few drinks and some fun, but look after ourselves!
Clare, UK

Is there any other crime other than those committed against women, were the victim is constantly blamed for the crimnal behaviour she experiences. Why is it acceptable in this day and age for the chief constable of Lothian and Borders to make these remarks? What he should be concentrating on is looking at how we stop men raping after all they are the ones who commit the crime. Rather than sending out messages which make excuses for the criminal behaviour that these men have decided to engage in perhaps Lothian and Broders should follow the lead of the Metropolitian Police (through Project Sapphire) and look at improving the service they provide to those who experience sex crimes
Heather Williams, Edinburgh

It is not the fault of the victim in any attack but unfortunately there are people that will prey on young women that have drunk to much. Sad though it is you have to ensure that you do not put yourself in a position that could lead to you being a victim. It will take many years to change the basic thoughts of some individuals as it did with drink driving.
R, Livingston, Scotland

Alcohol is a social lubricant which is why lots of people drink it, but worse, in excess it makes a lot of people do stupid things, and people do things they wouldn't normally do. It also makes people easy prey for criminals, including rapists. If anything should be taken from this report, it is that there are a lot of men out there who will rape given an opportunity. Everybody has the right to go out and enjoy themselves without becoming a victim at the end of the night. This isn't a case of two drunk people doing something they regret the next day, but of one person taking advantage of another's incapable state in a measured and calculated way. Always have trusted friends with you if you are going out to get ratted to keep an eye on each other!
Graham, Cambridge, UK

If I were to get paralytically drunk and wave my money around, I think I would have to blame myself if I got mugged, so why do women think they are a special case ? They can be seen at any nightspot, usually wearing almost nothing and drunk out of their tiny minds. I personally think it a sad reflection of our sick society that the weak and old are so vulnerable to parasites, but some women do invite trouble on themselves. Do not blame the drink, the problem is much deeper than that.
reilly, Southampton, England

I don't think that Mr Tomkins is blaming women, in fact he states that noone deserves to be a vicitm of an assualt or can be held liable for it. But we have to be realistic about these things. At the end of the day there are people out there who will take advantage of someone who is drunk - be that male or female. We all have to try and keep ourselves safe - whether that means telling people where we are going, getting a taxi home or not drinking so much that we are unable to protect ourselves or be aware of what is happening. In the same way that someone walking home alone at 4am or a lone person hitch-hiking does not deserve anything to happen to them it is a sad fact that these activities highten the risks. Yes, it would be a ideal world where you could go where you want, do what you want and behave however you want - but that is exactly that - ideal. Real life just isn't like that, and no amount of shouting about rights is going to change that fact. People who are willing to rape do not support women's rights to do as they wish. They are just looking out for potential targets. Mr Tompkins is just giving the benefit of his experience - perhaps instead of shouting him down we should listen. He isn't saying stay at home, he isn't saying cover up. He is just saying keep yourself safe and look after yourself - don't get so drunk that you are incapable of both and instead place your safety in the hands of someone to which it might mean nothing.
Veronica, Falkirk, Scotland

Drink has always been used as a way of reducing a woman's defences to male advances. The difference is now women are willing to get themselves into such a condition that they have no defences left. It is not an excuse for men to take advantage of a woman and rape can never be defensible but if you are too drunk to speak how can you say no?
Jenni, Ipswich

It is nothing short of disgraceful that the chief constable of Lothian and Borders Police should in any way attempt to place the blame for any rape at the victim's door. The only person responsible for a rape is the person who commits the offence. If Mr Tomkins wishes to know just how off beam his comments are, then I suggest he watches the BBC documentary from the 80s of Thames Valley Police that highlighted just how offensive, insensitive and downright hurtful police officers' dealings with victims of rape were at that time. Maybe then he will reflect in just how similar a vein his comments appear to be, and how little distance he personally as a police officer appears to have travelled in values and approach over the intervening period.
Gordon M, Edinburgh

I think that this concentrates on the victim rather than the perpetrator and weakens the argument that men are responsible for whether they attack people or not. The question of how much Scottish women, and men, drink is a different, admittedly concerning, issue. It's funny because when I saw the headline I expected the article to be about men's behaviour being linked to their binge drinking.
Tim Street, Glasgow, Scotland

The police are not saying that women are asking for it. They're trying to warn them about the kind of men who take advantage of a drunk woman. Anything can happen to you when you're so drunk you can hardly walk/speak/remember anything. This isn't just commonsense regarding sex attacks - you could get beaten up, robbed, run over or anything when you're that drunk.
Cate, Glasgow

Why shouldn't woment be granted the same rights as men when it comes to drinking? If a woman chooses to get extremely drunk then that is her choice but because she may be drunk and incapable that does not take away her right to say NO and mean NO nor does it give ANY man a right to rape or indecently assault.Unfortunately the 'old school' opinion is still at large within British society, that women are NOT equals.
Reighanne, Edinburgh

Yes binge drinking is linked to crime such as violence and rape. The reason that rape increases is that when people are drunk they can give the impression that they want to do something when they don't. Rape is not always black and white, it's not always a stranger with a knife. I would bet the majority of the increase is simply misunderstandings by two drunk people with regrets in the morning, or predators preying on drunk women. In either case, people guard their valuables when they go out to avoid thefts so women should apply this principle to going for a night out. We all have a responsibility to do what we can not to make ourselves easy targets.
Huw Morgan, Cardiff UK

It has nothing to do with the victim being somehow responsible. But if you are blind drunk and it is dark outside then you are easier to attack, be that for the contents of your wallet, or for sexual motives. You can do some things to protect yourself, and one is not getting so wasted that you are barely conscious.
Ian MacLaren, Glasgow

In short... probably not. I think it's dangerous and irresponsible of the police to put one cause (which, by the way, is in the public's hands alone to control) behind the recent increase. I for one would rather have them exhaust the alternative possibilities such as tracking the increase in spiking reports, late night travel problems and targetting pubs and conducting drug searches. I can't speak for every male in the country but when I'm out having a few too many beers, by the end of the night I'm rarely in a condition to assault someone! What should be looked into are gangs of cars cruising the streets looking for stragglers and out of the way superclubs where taxis are as easy to find as gold dust. No-one wants to see more assaults but I'd prefer to see it dealt with in a more pro-active manner than the "well you shouldn't have drunk so much" proposal. It's insensitive to the victims and offensive to those who are just out for a good time with friends. I'd like to see one newspaper report someday where all men aren't being demonised as rapists, stalkers and paedophiles just waiting for a opportunity to strike!
Andy, Wigan, Lancs

I don't think it's just down to drink. I think there is a worrying trend in society in general about lack of respect. This is clearly demonstrated on any night out, no-one gives a hoot about anyone else these days. Dress sense, promiscuous culture and dropping social values are to blame. Once you throw drink into the equation you get a nice combination of violence and out of control people. It's not just the young either half the 20-30 yr olds I come across can't string a sentence together and see women as objects.
K, Highlands

As far as I can see all the article is saying is that if you render yourself more vulnerable you're more likely to be attacked, and that perhaps that's not such a great idea? While it would be great to live in a world where nothing bad ever happened that's not the case and it's just common sense to practice a bit of passive self defence. If I were blind drunk one night and ended up being mugged I would definitely consider it largely my own fault, go figure.
Tom O, Cambridge, UK

It is clear what the chief constable is saying. If a woman binge drinks and gets drunk she is more vulnerable to a sex attack as the few sick men who target woman for rape will see her as a relatively easy target. This is no fault whatsoever of the women but they must be aware of the increased risk at those times.
Chris, Lincoln

No, I do not agree with the police, the reason that this type of crime is on the increase is that the sick individuals who commit these acts know that the chances of getting away with it are very high indeed. We live in the club culture; more young people are out for a longer duration at the weekends with clubs sometime being open until 4 or 5 in the morning. This is obviously going to increase crime rates, be that sexual crimes, muggings or general street violence. The police's solution is to blame the pubs and clubs rather than get more bobbies out on the street at these particular times of the week. The police force really need to have a word with themselves.
Rob, Edinburgh

To Rob from Edinburgh: Do you not think that one of the possible reasons rapists reckon they can get away with their crimes is that it is harder for the police to get reliable information from a victim who was drunk? The quote from the police is: "Not just moderate, social drinking, but by women who can't remember events at all." Even if the offender is traced, this must dramatically affect the chances of a conviction.
JG, Huddersfield UK

I fail to see how this can be interpreted as a feminist issue. It's an article about statistics. If, as a woman, you go out and get trolleyed, you are more likely to be a victim of rape. The police don't appear to be saying they won't investigate instances of rape in which the victim was wasted and they don't seem to be saying "women, don't go out and drink". If, as an independent woman, having weighed up the pros of several bowls of loud-mouth soup against the cons of an increased chance of sexual assault one decides one still wants to get paralytic, surely that's still one's democratic inalienable right.
Sam, Oxford, England

In my opinion, drinking is one factor for the rise in crimes. It can't be solely blamed for everything bad that happens on the street, I would say it's the people perception which has to be changed. Rape and sexual assaults can happen even if the guy is not drunk. If a guy is drunk and he sees a girl in a mini-skirt, isn't that a invitation from the girl's side to arouse a guy????
Ash, Dundee, UK

Absolutely. Whenever I'm out in town at the weekend I see people staggering around as early as 9pm and these people go on to stay out clubbing till 3am. It is no wonder there are so many attacks when half the time the people on both sides aren't even aware what's going on. If an excessively drunk person walks into a bar/club, they should be refused service by default.
James Stansfield, Edinburgh, Scotland

Whilst I do not condone binge drinking, I can say from experience (I did some binge drinking as a young adult many years ago) that the male binge drinker is far too out of control to be able to get an erection, let alone have sex, consensual or otherwise! Have the police never heard of "brewer's droop"?
Jonathen W, England

I find it truly depressing that this kind of outdated view is still being aired in 2004. Why are women to be held responsible for a man's actions? It is a criminal act perpetrated by the man. We don't blame victims of muggings so why is it considered acceptable to blame the victims of sexual assualts? Perhaps Mr Tompkins would prefer it if women stayed at home and dressed demurely to avoid any future problems.
Sharon Gardner, Edinburgh, Scotland

Stick to the point Sharon. Binge drinking by both sexes is a contributing factor and in truth there are many more attention seekers, of both sexes, out on our streets which will also contribute.
George H, Wishaw, Scotland

So crime is rising. Well it can't be the fault of the police or government so let's blame binge drinking.
David Smith, Barking UK




SEE ALSO:
Binge drinking link to rapes rise
17 Sep 04  |  Scotland



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