On Sunday 31 January Sophie Raworth interviewed Leader of the House of Commons, Harriet Harman MP. Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used. SOPHIE RAWORTH: Well the economy is traditionally the battleground in any General Election, and it looks as if the next one will be no exception. In his latest podcast today, as I was saying, the Prime Minister outlines his plan for jobs, growth and opportunities for all, but a report last week confirmed that social and economic inequality has remained deep-seated under Labour with the richest 10% of the population a startling one hundred times better off than the poorest 10%. Among her many titles, Labour's Deputy Leader Harriet Harman is also Minister for Equality and she joins me now. Good morning. HARRIET HARMAN: Good morning. SOPHIE RAWORTH: And let's first of all start with the economy and the figures. I mean it's a pretty difficult battleground for you to fight this one on, isn't it, the election figures … I mean the economy figures? HARRIET HARMAN: Well, I don't think so. I think that we're on the right path with the economy, but we're not out of the woods yet. And I really shudder to think what would have happened if the government hadn't taken the action to blunt the impact of the economy, which was a global financial credit crisis, a financial services crisis. It was obviously going to have a massive impact on our economy. But what we did is we took action to protect businesses, to help people who became unemployed get back in. Now we've got to keep taking that action because we're not out of the woods yet. But pulling the plugs … SOPHIE RAWORTH: (over) But it's not fast enough. HARRIET HARMAN: … I mean really I do think that what George Osborne has said is just … I mean I really do shudder to think what would have happened if they'd have been in government. I mean 200,000 businesses have been able to defer paying their tax because we didn't want to put them out of business, perfectly good businesses because of a global financial credit problem. SOPHIE RAWORTH: But the recovery is weaker than a lot of people expected and, for all we know, we could be back into a recession in the next few months. HARRIET HARMAN: Well the Chancellor always said that he felt that we would start recovering, we would start going back into growth at the turn of the year, and that is the case. But I think the most important thing as we go back into recovery is that we don't take it for granted and we don't do anything which could actually put the economy back into recession. And I think the work on unemployment - and earlier this week Gordon Brown and Yvette Cooper unveiled this programme to ensure that young unemployed people, that after 6 months they're guaranteed work or training - we've got to keep that up because you see after the … in the Tory … in the recessions under the Tories unemployment carried on rising for three years after the 1990s recession. It carried on rising for five years after the 80s recession. And actually we've started to see unemployment coming down. So the issue is not the numbers. The issue … Well it is the numbers … SOPHIE RAWORTH: Absolutely. HARRIET HARMAN: … but the issue is also the impact on people's lives. Is your business surviving … SOPHIE RAWORTH: Okay. HARRIET HARMAN: … are you still in work? If you lose your job, can you get another job? And that's what we've got to focus on. SOPHIE RAWORTH: And talking of numbers as well, and we were just talking about it with George Osborne, I mean huge bonuses may be paid out - who knows. It's bonus season. We're going to find out quite soon what the banks are planning to do. Do you think there should be some sort of legislation? HARRIET HARMAN: Well there has been because we've said that 50% … You know if banks pay … Banks that the public purse owns, there won't be cash bonuses because that's part of the terms of the agreement of the ownership of the public purse. So that's publicly owned banks, no bonuses. Those banks who do want to pay bonuses, well then there's going to be a 50% tax rate on them. So if they pay them … SOPHIE RAWORTH: (over) That's a one off though? HARRIET HARMAN: Yes, but it basically says you shouldn't be paying bonuses now; and if you are, then you have to pay 50% tax on that. SOPHIE RAWORTH: So should that be extended? HARRIET HARMAN: Well we've also got a new regime whereby … SOPHIE RAWORTH: But should that be extended, that particular tax? HARRIET HARMAN: Well I think that that's happening at the moment, and obviously future tax decisions you know come with future budgets. But I also think that there's the question of making banks hold more capital reserves and also making sure that their budget re… their bonuses regime works against them taking risks, and that's the Financial Services Agency. So there's a whole load of things being done on that. But one thing that would be, as I say would really set the economy back and would give us the age of austerity that the Tories are promising would be to pull the plugs on the economy now. I mean it's still fragile, and that means we still need the government action that's being taken. SOPHIE RAWORTH: Let's talk about this conference that you're going to this week in Spain. I mean this is a European summit on women in power, and it's going to be the biggest meeting of EU women I think in the history of the EU, isn't it? One of the goals is that you're urging national governments to 'guarantee a balanced presence of women and men in all areas of responsibility.' I mean would that apply to parliament, to government for example? HARRIET HARMAN: Well it's basically rec… This is ministers, women who are ministers across Europe. There's something like 25 ministers who are women coming together in Spain from 15 countries, and basically this is a new dimension in international relations. I mean it used to be that politics was a men only business and it used to be international relations was just men ministers meeting each other whether they're leaders or finance ministers. And now in every continent in the world and in most countries, there's a fantastic new generation of women leaders coming through and they want to back up … SOPHIE RAWORTH: (over) But you look at the cabinet and there are, what, 3 women in the cabinet out of 22? HARRIET HARMAN: Yeah and if you look at the House of Commons, out of 600 … SOPHIE RAWORTH: (over) Hardly any, yeah. HARRIET HARMAN: If you look at the House of Commons, 646 MPs … SOPHIE RAWORTH: 126 women. HARRIET HARMAN: … only 126 women. So we're still in the minority, but what we're doing … SOPHIE RAWORTH: (over) But that's very disappointing for you, isn't it … HARRIET HARMAN: Well … SOPHIE RAWORTH: … after so many years in power? HARRIET HARMAN: Well I think that you know I was one of 3% women when I first got in. Now I'm one of 20%. Yes, we're not equal, but we're making progress. And the point about this meeting that we're having in Spain is that we're working together. And this is important not just for women in Europe, but for example you know who's going to really help the woman in a village in Northern Nigeria? Who's going to help her get healthcare and education for her children? It's basically the woman who represents her in the state legislature and we've got to … SOPHIE RAWORTH: (over) Okay, we're running out of time, but I do need to ask you obviously about Tony Blair and the Chilcott Inquiry on Friday. Do you think it was unfortunate that he didn't express any regret? HARRIET HARMAN: Well I'm sure that for every single one of our armed service forces who died in the Iraq War, I'm sure that Tony Blair when Prime Minister would have expressed personally his sympathy and condolence to the family. I'm sure that must have been the case. SOPHIE RAWORTH: But do you not know think that was … He was asked twice at the end of it, and we had families in tears in the inquiry room itself. Do you not think that that was his opportunity? Should he not have done that? HARRIET HARMAN: Well I'm sure that he'd already expressed his condolences, heartfelt condolences to each and every one of those families. But obviously it's right that after a war which was so divisive in this country that you have an occasion where those who are responsible are able to give a full account of what happened in the process leading up to the war and what the planning was for after the war, so I think this is a very, very important process. SOPHIE RAWORTH: It is divisive and it must also be very damaging for the Labour party in the run up to an election to have all this raked over in front of an inquiry? HARRIET HARMAN: Well it was divisive, but I think that that makes it more, not less necessary, that there is a public accounting for what happened. I think we couldn't do that when the troops were still in Iraq, but as soon as they came out, the inquiries got underway. And I think it's a very difficult process because it was and still is a divisive issue, but it's necessary to be completely out in the open and that's what's actually happening with the Chilcott Inquiry. SOPHIE RAWORTH: But damaging as well? There we're going to have Gordon Brown giving evidence as well before an election. HARRIET HARMAN: Well I think you know the results of the inquiry and what people think about it will be what it is, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be doing it. I think it's right that we actually do it. SOPHIE RAWORTH: Harriet Harman, we'll have to leave it there. Thank you very much. INTERVIEW ENDS
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