By Robin Brant BBC News

Ed Balls said governing for Labour was becoming "more difficult"

Tony Blair is still at the Labour helm and the last thing he thinks he needs is a compass.

Remember "better when we're bolder" and "no reverse gear"? They were hardly the words of a man who is likely to seek help steering his party in the right direction.

But the climate has changed. May's local election battering, served up in the weeks after the scandal of released foreign prisoners and John Prescott's adultery, has led to talk of renewal and change.

The prime minister has now conceded he will stand down before the next general election and leave ample time for his successor to prepare for the poll.

The Labour activists who met at Saturday's Compass conference in London want that to be soon.

The organisation, sitting on the left of the Labour Party, is barely a few years old but it has become a home for those who disagree with key aspects of Tony Blair's agenda.

Change and renewal

It was Compass which lent its name to moves to despatch a letter to the prime minister last month, calling on him to lay out a timetable for his departure.

The letter was never written, let alone sent, but the message was clear. Hence, change and renewal.

Downing Street says it supports the words of two ministers sent to speak at the conference, who acknowledged how tough things have got.

Treasury minister Ed Balls, one-time aide to Gordon Brown and still very close to the chancellor, told the audience that it was getting "more difficult" to govern.

Labour Party chairman Hazel Blears warned against complacency, saying David Cameron was proving to be "attractive" to many voters.

Both were aggressive in their attack on the Tories though.

Taken seriously

Others in the hall were urging more radical renewal and change. Substantially more radical.

Abolition of the monarchy, the destruction of nuclear weapons, even the end of the 11 plus - all were put forward by activists from the floor.

Compass is one of numerous groups around Labour seeking to get their oar in as anticipation of movement at the top heightens.

There are signs that it is gaining influence.