By Paula Dear BBC News website

The group said they often felt adults lectured them about crime

It is difficult to know exactly how many under-16s become victims of crime in Britain.

The collection of data for the age group is patchy, as is the level of reporting by youngsters themselves.

Some campaigners say more coherent data is needed - but others say society is over-reacting to the low-level crime and anti-social behaviour children experience "as part of growing up".

BBC News visited Claremont High School, in Kenton, north London - one place where crime is currently at the forefront of pupils' minds.

Its 13- to 14-year-olds are taking part in a regular two-day Citizenship and Crime conference at the school, run by the Howard League for Penal Reform.

It tackles a myriad of issues from whether the children think it is more serious to "jack" [steal] a car than a chocolate bar, to what it is like in prison.

We didn't think we should get the police involved - it would have just been a big hassle Sonal, 14 Hidden victims of crime?

Another more grim focus for the school is that last month one of their A-level students, Jeshma Raithatha, was raped and murdered.

The children say they felt shocked about the murder, but believe they live in an area that is "not particularly rough", where "big" crimes generally do not happen.

Nevertheless five of the seven interviewed by BBC News say they have been direct or indirect victims of at least one crime.

As the conversation progresses it transpires the other two have been victims too - a house robbery and theft of trainers were not initially mentioned.

'Hoodies'

"I was walking home from school with my friend when some people from another school, about 10 of them, surrounded us.

"They searched my friend for his phone and took the food that I was eating," 14-year-old Wasim recalls.

"They were all wearing hoodies and it was quite intimidating. I thought maybe they would attack us but I just pushed them away.

"Some police came about half an hour later, but it was hard to catch them because there are so many alleyways to go down."

When his classmate Syed's family came back from a night out, their house had been robbed, he says.

The school hosts regular sessions on citizenship and crime

His mum stores valuables in a safety deposit box that was not discovered during the raid, so little was taken.

"The police dusted for fingerprints in the house, but nothing else happened," says Syed.

The children are generally of the view that the police are not effective in keeping them safe or in solving crime.

"Sometimes they are good," says Jahrina, 13, "but my dad never even bothered calling the police when our house got robbed."

"They can be okay, but if you are younger or in a group they are not as nice to you," says Wasim.

'Jacked for chicken'

Sonal's only experience of crime, she says, was having her mobile phone stolen while she was in a PE class.

"I put it in the valuables box but when I went to collect it, it was gone. The teachers are supposed to keep it with them," she adds, to a wave of laughter from the rest of the group.

"We didn't think we should get the police involved. Nothing would have been done about it anyway, it would have just been a big hassle," says Sonal.

Sujan was also the victim of a theft at school, when a video game went missing from his bag.

They'll jack the Asian kids - they think black people will stick up for themselves more Syed, 14

"I told the teacher when I noticed later in the day, but she said there was no evidence to blame it on anyone."

"One of our friends gets jacked [robbed] all the time," chimes in Jahrina.

"I saw some boys trying to take his phone, but I didn't help him," admits her friend Natasha.

There is much hilarity when Syed pipes up that his brother was "jacked for chicken" outside a fast food restaurant.

"He called the police. They drove him home," he says.

"When people jack you they just jack you for anything you've got."

'Bad service'

Colour makes a difference to your chances of being victimised, Syed says.

"Sometimes they won't approach black people, they'll jack the Asian kids instead. I think they think black people will stick up for themselves more."

Another member of the group, Chand, says he had an experience with the police that left him feeling less than confident.

He and a friend were accosted by a group of boys, and his friend had his mobile phone stolen.

"My friend went home and called the police. They asked us to come in and help identify the people. But they weren't there when we arrived so we had to go back home.

"I thought it was bad service. They said they would call back but they never did."

Jeshma Raithatha's murder was shocking but rare, said the children

As a group they seem to accept this level of crime as part of their lives, and most think it is probably more prevalent in their generation that it was for their parents.

They have "more stuff worth jacking" they say, such as games consoles, "bling" [jewellery], brand-named trainers and mobile phones.

Although some of them also know people their age who have perpetrated crimes, they think youngsters get a bad press.

"People in shops follow you around, and they have rules like only two schoolchildren in the shop at a time," says Natasha.

They would rather adults talked to them than lectured them about crime, adds Jahrina.

Agreeing, Natasha says: "Talks like this are better than banning hoodies or something like that. It's people's attitudes that count."