Campaigners question the need for a big growth in house building

Neil Sinden, the CPRE's director of policy, and Pierre Williams, spokesman for the House Builders' Federation, give opposing views on whether the country needs a large house building programme.

Neil Sinden, Campaign to Protect Rural England

We have carried out a survey of the figures produced by the 15 leading house builders in this country.

Using their own figures, we can reveal there is enough land with planning permission around the country to accommodate something like 280,000 homes across the country and that the house builders land banks have increased since 1997 by something like 18%.

The suggestion that our problems of housing supply are to do with lack of land are way off the mark.

We see no reason why the house builders cannot be bringing this land forward at a faster rate for development. Neil Sinden CPRE

We see no reason why the house builders cannot be bringing this land forward at a faster rate for development.

We need to see action take at all levels to persuade the house builders to bring forward that land in order to meet some of the housing problems that we face.

Significant decline

There are two important points in this argument. It is not just about the issue of land, there is also a fundamental issue about the type of housing that is being built.

The house builders will often claim we are seeing the lowest house building levels since the 1920s in this country, which is true.

What they omit to say is the reason for that significant decline in the level of house building is almost entirely due to the significant drop in the amount of social housing for rent being built.

What we are pointing out is that contrary to the house builders' claims, the amount of land they have available with outline planning permission - which means in principle it is acceptable that that land is developed - has increased by 18% over the past five years when the house builders have been complaining that land has become in shorter supply.

Pierre Williams, House Builders Federation

The research is based on CPRE's interpretation, but for the sake of argument let's accept it.

It is rather surreal isn't it, that after 40 to 50 years of ceaseless campaigning we are concreting over the countryside, suddenly the CPRE seems to be changing its tune and saying: "Well actually yes, there is a housing shortage, but it is not our fault, it is actually the fault of the house builders."

Let us have a look at those facts then for a start. The survey looks at whether or not they have got detailed or outline planning consent.

Well, if it has got outline planning consent, you cannot build on it, you need detailed planning consent.

There is no indication of what proportion has detailed planning consent.

I would imagine it is virtually none at all because, as soon as it does get that detailed planning consent, it gets developed.

Household growth

The point is that we live in an age when planning permission is enormously difficult to achieve Pierre Williams House Builders Federation

Furthermore, they are saying the survey is of the 15 largest house builders.

Well, it is hardly surprising their land banks have gone up because there has been a whole load of consolidation in the industry, so naturally, the biggest 15 have got bigger. Consequently, the amount of land they have got has also increased.

Household growth is running at 230,000 a year, so you are constantly talking about a resource - despite the fact you cannot build on all that resource immediately because it does not have the necessary planning permission - but a resource that constitutes a little over a year, maybe a year-and-a-half's actual housing 's need.

Now can you imagine in any other industry, perhaps the oil industry, if they said: "Well, there's no problem because we've got enough reserve, there are enough oil reserves for the next year and a half, or food, or whatever."

The point is we live in an age when planning permission is enormously difficult to achieve, with complicated sites; big plans that take 20 years to actually achieve.

It needs detailed planning consent before it can go ahead.