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| Tuesday, 11 April, 2000, 14:29 GMT 15:29 UK Are cricket's old-timers the greatest? Wisden, cricket's ultimate almanac, has listed the top 100 players of the century - but the men at the top are old-timers. Aussie leg-spinner Shane Warne is the only one in the top 25 still playing. The knights lead the way - Sir Donald Bradman, Sir Garfield Sobers, Sir Jack Hobbs and Sir Vivian Richards. England's hero, Ian "Beefy" Botham, is down in 16th place, while Steve Waugh, captain of world champions Australia, is not even listed. So has Wisden got it wrong? Who is your all-time greatest? Your reaction You all know that Brian Lara is the greatest ever by miles, so why don't you acknowledge this? No-one else even compares so give him his recognition. It is surprising Shane Warne is listed above truly many greats in the game of cricket.
Anuvind Bhushan, India/USA This list will be a good topic for a never ending debate. Although I personally do not agree with some of the rankings, the names included are some of the greatest to grace the sport of cricket and to see their names included in a list of the "Greatest�." is an honour by itself. The list compiled sees fine. However, Wisden needs to review their criteria and recognise that it is quite difficult to compare players and measure greatness. Shane Warne is brilliant, but I do believe that, Sir Richard Hadlee, Imran Khan,Ian Botham and Sunil Gavaskar should have featured more prominently. Warne may be very good but Steve Waugh does the job when Australia needs it. Stuart Atkins of England says Warne has almost single-handedly resurrected the spin bowling. Well, only almost - how could he forget the contribution of his own countrymen who have surrendered abjectly to him on more occasions than one can keep track of. And, how about the man who has torn to shreds the resurrector of spin bowling on more occasions than even Warne can keep track of? Need I name him? Its hard to believe that Sachin's name has not been in, Bradman himself has termed as one of the best. I don't think the panel had better cricketers than Bradman and of course Shane Warne, he should not belong to the top elite. We can not compare the modern cricket achievements with pre commercialisation era. In early days, it was all about the ability and national pride. Right now, it is all about money. No Wasim Akram and Imran Khan. I think what Imran has contributed for Pakistan's cricket is not comparable. He has given to us the best pace bowlers of modern era. Wasim and Waqar. Wake up Wisden - You should have listed the players fairly!
To my opinion Sobers is the greatest ever and Bradman follows second to him. And come on, Warne and Richards in the top five?? They should be in Wisden's Top Five Cricketers Ever Played Against England!! Murphy S, Malaysia How can they forget players like Wasim Akram, Sunil Gavasker, Kapil Dev and Duleep Mendis and of course Sachin Tendulakar. The above players have made more contribution in the field of cricket and in bringing this game to such a stage as we enjoy now. Shane Warne is of course a good player, but can he be rated above those players? This is a vote about cricket ability. Shane Warne demonstrates unparalleled control and ability for a spin bowler. The spin bowler has not reached such heights since the days of uncovered wickets. If he continues to play out a normal cricket career, he will without doubt, be the world's greatest wicket taker Shane Warne does not deserve to be in the top five, Hobbs too does not. Hadlee changed the game for New Zealand single-handedly, Lille changed the nature of fast bowling, Akram has been dominant in One-dayers and tests for the last 15 years. An analogy - When you look at Muhammad Ali in the ring (and out of it for that matter) you say he is the greatest. Similarly, when one watches cricket players one says this guy is great. By this measurement the likes of Thomson, Lillee, Marshall, Khan, Gavaskar, Younis, Tendulker,Greenidge, DeSilva, are also great. Their performances a times defying belief. How can people be so myopic with such an abundance of greatness? I can't believe that the inclusion of Shane Warne has caused uproar- he has shown the world what the art of leg spin is about and I am sure he is also responsible for a whole new birth of budding leg spinners. I find it hard to believe that Sir Richard Hadlee was not included in the top five. He had a Test batting average of around 30 runs and his bowling figures speak for themselves. He was also the first man to get 400 Test wickets. A pretty good argument! I think Wisden has gone nuts. How can they omit Steve Waugh? I think Kapil Dev should be in the top five as he has taken 434 test wickets without an injury break. The new players play more and are expected to perform consistently...you cannot compare different eras.
Samir Singh, Singapore To exclude Courtney Walsh, Wasim Akram, Sir Richard Hadlee is beyond belief and to include Shane Warne, must be the biggest crime of the millennium. I feel sorry for the list of 100 players. How can the judges forget about the Sri Lankans. Are the Australians paying for the place of Shane Warne in first five?
Keith Crossland, Canada In my opinion Clive H. Lloyd is one of the most successful captains in the history of test cricket. I really do not understand why his name appeared at that bottom. And why did players like Pakistan's Javed Miandad not even appear. Ahem! Shane 'Tubby' Warne in the Top 5 cricketers of the century. Apart from anything else, this is a man involved in betting scandals and is not quite what I would call a good sportsman. I beg to differ! Shanie might be one hell of a cricketer but he isn't a gentleman. I feel that the only two that Wisden got right was Jack Hobbs and Bradman. Yes I am perplexed with the fact that Beefy was left out of the top ten. He is certainly one of the most charismatic cricketers of all time. There are many great players but in my opinion Wasim Akram is one of the greatest players. Warne's inclusion as the centuries top five cricketers is surprising. I expected Dennis Lillee or Truman to make the list. The other four choices are bang on target.
Damian, UK Graeme Pollock should have been higher. His career was ended at the age of 26 well before his peak, yet he still had the second best ever test batting average and he didn't play against any weak teams only Australia and England in the 1960's. No Graeme Pollock, amazing! He kept the game alive in SA throughout isolation. Where is the one and only Wasim Akram, he is much better that Shane Warne will ever be. This list should not be taken (too) seriously. Lists are there to be discussed and argued over. Most of the cricketers mentioned, played before I was born. We are in a different era (covered wickets, one day internationals, etc)....However, if I was asked to name my top five cricketers of all time, it wouldn't have strayed far from the Wisden list. Well done with the compiling of this list but I feel the attributes of Shane Warne are somewhat of a sticking point considering he is still playing. My own favourite would have been Abdul Qadir. The man did more for the art of spin than Warne could ever achieve in a lifetime. I can't belive all this negative comment about Warne's inclusion in the top 5. He is by far the greatest cricketer of the modern generation - both in terms of his records and his impact upon the game. He has been the spearhead that has seen Australia become the no.1 side in the world - who can forget that spell in the World Cup semi-final. My major gripe with the 5 is the lack of a pace bowler - surely Hadlee, Lillee or Marshall should have been in instead of Hobbs?
Adrian Cockett, UK Of all modern bowlers Hadlee was by far the best (look at his record) and I'd put him ahead of Warne though Warne has almost single-handedly resurrected the spin bowler. Who are the 100 "experts" who participated in this exercise? I would love to know. Do they reflect the modern-day realities of the game's following? Or were they mostly White experts from England, Australia and New Zealand? If the experts were not truly representative of the game, then India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka should launch a parallel top 100 poll. Then maybe a Sri Lankan such as Aravinda de Silva will figure in it.
However, Curtly Ambrose's ability to terrorise whole teams, take bursts of wickets whilst conceding only two runs per over, for an out and out quicky remember, must surely put him near the top. But Garfield Sobers could do just about everything so he should really be first. Craig, Wales Without doubt the greatest player of all time is Sir Garfield Sobers, batting, bowling, fielding, captain, brill. As the comments suggest, there is a great deal of debate. The most contentious entry is Shane Warne. The other four are without doubt right. Everyone so far seems to have queried Warne's inclusion. I don't agree with this. His contribution to the game is significantly greater than his 366 wickets to date. He has changed the whole mood of the game. My query is Sir Jack Hobbs. He should not have been included simply because he was a pioneer. He is not a league above others like Bradman, Sobers and Richards were in their day. I look on in disbelief that Ian Botham was only at number 16. If a similar poll were to be done in 50 years time, he will probably be in the top three. What a rating without the great Wasim Akram's name not falling amongst the top 25 greats! I was shocked to one of the all time greats with almost 800 international wickets to his credit is not amongst the elite band. And not to forget the natural leadership of this cricketing legend. Wisden you could have made a better rating had you included the great deceptive and skilful pace man. Sad he was isolated for so long...one MJ Procter would surely have graced this band of elite men...
Sujay Kumar, USA What happened to all time greats such as Sir Richard Hadlee, Clive Lloyd and Allen Border. Wisden's list I am afraid is not an ideal one. Perhaps the most controversial inclusion is of Shane Warne's in top 5. Can't agree to rank him higher than many greater cricketers of the recent past, e.g. Imran Khan, the man who made such a huge impact on his country's cricketing fortunes. Through his performance and leadership, during the course of a decade, he transformed his team-mates into world-beaters. Wasim Akram is easily the one of the best fast bowlers of all time....Wisden have no idea what they are talking about. But if they did have a criteria (like oldies first - which is what their list really looks like) then what is Shane Warne doing there? Perhaps the next survey in a hundred years time, a Sri Lankan may get one candidate in the list but probably somewhere between 90 and 99. Shane over Ambrose and Walsh wake up people! This gives me the chance to express my disbelief that Geoff Boycott could have been left out of the top 100. If we had a GB equivalent today we would not suffer quite so many embarassing batting collapses and he's a Yorkshireman.
D Beers, NZ Wisden has got it wrong, how could you not include Steve Waugh in the top 100. How many times did he dig Australia out of trouble during the 1990's and also why isn't Alan Border in the top 10? Why are Muthiah Muralithran and Aravinda De Siva's name in not there. In fact there are no Sri Lankan cricketers name on the first 100. Sri Lanka were the previous World Cup holders. I would say that the top 100 players surely should be dominated by Indian batsman, past and present. This would reflect the very nature of those that set the threshold of championship cricketers
Guru Sahajpal, USA Beefy should have been higher - the way he battered the Aussies in '81 is legendary. Agree with the position of Viv - another great entertainer I am a Sunil Gavaskar fan and so am biased. The mark of greatness is what the player achieves against the greatest challenges. Contrast Gavaskar's achievements against the West Indies fast bowlers of the 70's and 80's and examine Viv Richards' domestic performance against the same bowlers - Gavaskar's record is infinitely superior. On the same theme it would be interesting to look at Warne's record against India/Sri Lanka - those countries who can play spin - with his averages against the West Indies and England - those who can't. As highly as I rate Shane Warne's ability I am flummoxed that he figured so prominently in the list whereas the tenacious, match-winning Steve Waugh is nowhere to be seen. An impossible task to choose the five best cricketers. But no pace bowlers? Surely one of the West Indian greats from the past two decades should have made the top five list. Wisden has got it right. Not only were they great cricketers, they are great sportsmen and gentlemen. How they could omit Sir Richard Hadlee and include Shane Warne is beyond me! The men at the top were not old timers when they played. Looking at it from and English perspective, unlike many of today's cricketers they would have played outside constantly as children, learning great ball skills. They would not have their potential stifled by political correctness, video games or the lack of interest by teachers. Without doubt, my cricketing hero was Ian Botham. I'm not sure England's cricket has been the same since! | See also: 05 Apr 00 | Cricket Top Talking Point stories now: Links to more Talking Point stories are at the foot of the page. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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