Both men are speaking at the formal opening ceremony of the four-yearly Trade and Development conference in Sao Paulo.

President Lula has made it clear he wants to get consensus from the developing world to stand firm in demands for rich countries to open up their markets and cut agricultural subsidies.

Should developing countries demand fairer trade rules? Are wealthy nations guilty of unfair competition?

This debate is now closed. Read your comments below.

The following comments reflect the balance of opinion we have received so far.

Developing countries should band together and put forward their demands Wambui, Nairobi, Kenya

There have always been double standards regarding trade rules between developing and developed countries. I think developing countries should band together and put forward their demands but as to seeing their demands realised, I am very doubtful. You'll never know until you try.
Wambui, Nairobi, Kenya

Definitely. Developing countries-emerging markets-are at enough of a disadvantage, in terms of trade, without the developed world putting tariffs on their exports.
Peter Bolton, US

In fairness to the "developed world", the developing world has to make some strides before the can be taken seriously. How many times have countries developed trade relationships with third world countries, only for these governments to be overthrown or worse become dictator state and suppress their people. Fair is fair, but some of the blame has to be put on the under-developed countries, it's a 2 way street.
Mike Daly, Miami, FL

It's interesting to see that free trade is being discussed. I understand David Livingstone explored rivers in Africa as possible routes for free trade with Africans in the 1860s- his agenda was to usurp slavery by giving Africans another, more powerful, means of income! Just how much progress have we made in 150 years? Should we have fairer trade rules?- Of course! That, and Africans getting rid of tin-pot dictators, is the only hope for the continent to progress.
Joe Mandebvu, Australia

It is fair to conclude that the fair trade has not been there. Once the fair trade is there it is fair to stop the aid that has compensated for the fair trade.
Mikko Toivonen, Helsinki, Finland

The demand by the developing countries for fairer trade will remain uncertain till the very same day that, the world scores higher credits in good-will, honest diplomacy and honest International trade. Indeed, the rich nations' commitment to these elements will be a key to fair economic adjustment to developing countries.
Khalid Stambuli, Balaka /Malawi

Can anyone seriously believe that any government will deliberately hurt its own citizens to assist their competitors in poor countries? Mark, USA

Isn't it a shame that in countries like the US, government by the people, of the people, and for the people, act in the best interest of their own people to the detriment of people from other countries. Can anyone seriously believe that any government will deliberately hurt its own citizens in any meaningful way to assist their competitors in poor countries? For any change in policy which helps people in less developed nations to be adopted by the developed world, it will have to help people in more developed nations as well.
Mark, USA

Is this a rhetorical question? Fair trade is only fair. The developed nations preach free trade to developing nations but heavily subsidize theirs. It is time this changed and time the developing nations stand up against this practice.
Ibro, Washington DC, USA

The corruption of the mostly Latin American countries is a prime cause in promoting poverty. By letting their presidents, and officials, steal, from their people, without having any trial, to punish them after they leave office, and finding safe haven ,in neighbouring countries, they promote the continuing misery of developing nations.
Jose Nigrin, Guatemala, Guatemala

He who holds the money makes the rules. Dangling money in front of 3rd world countries who wish to maintain their independence is an affront to humanity and will produce such hate that the terrorist threat will become worse until the US and other industrial nations choose to HELP their unfortunate neighbours and not abuse them for their own ends.
David Brooks, Vancouver, Canada

If western economies believe that free trade is so good then we should start to practice what we preach rather than enforcing trade liberalisation on developing economies whilst ruthlessly protecting our own economies with tariffs and duties. A mass default of third world debt repayments would bring the world economy to its knees, we should not back the developing world into a corner where that would be their only recourse.
Rick, Bury, Greater Manchester

The question should be "how can Africans get fairer trade rules with the wealthy nations? Will they ever get it anyway?
Hesbon Okwayo, Nairobi, Kenya

Yes, the farmers in the developed world are subsidized to the max and this needs to change. Most developing countries can only trade in agricultural goods and we must open our markets to them.
Richard Payne, Lake Woth, FL USA

The hypocrisy of the developed countries is terrible. They subsidize their agriculture and ask developing countries not to do same. Take air travel, telecommunication and shipping, they are charged 3-10 times the average. They are poor and you still make them pay more. Developed nations should be ashamed of themselves.
Henry Onyirimba, Port Harcourt Nigeria

Most of the consumers of the future are in developing nations Vish, Wellington, New Zealand

It is interesting that "rich" countries are demanding political reforms and environmental controls on the part of developing nations. Are they forgetting that most of the development of the "rich" nations was during a time of no care about the environment (either their own or of the poor nations that were "looted" for the benefit of the rich nations) under feudal / semi-democratic systems! It must be clear to the "rich" club that most of the consumers of the future are in developing nations and in the long-run the rich need the poor to spend in order to survive!!
Vish, Wellington, New Zealand

Before forgiving debts and removing Trade barriers, we should cleanse all Swiss accounts belonging to corrupt leaders. Repay what is due to the natives of the countries by way of education and skills. Then strive to provide justice for all. The removal of trade barriers under current conditions will fuel child labour and forced labour (slavery) in many developing countries.
Hamad Sheikh, Chicago USA

Having once lived and worked as a development worker in a remote village in a sub-Saharan African country for more than two years, I have seen the negative effects of First World trade policies. USA grain price supports (together with the highly mechanized US agri-process) allows US producers to dump grain on the World market at a price level that labor-intensive subsistence farmers cannot begin to compete with. Combined with poor infrastructure, local shortages from poor growing years invariably turn into crises and what arrives? US AID surplus grain food aid, which is then ultimately weaponized by corrupt local officials who then dump it on the market for their own gain, undercutting the few local suppliers that had "First World" aspirations to bank grain. Thus the cycle is closed - the poor are unable to get out of this vicious cycle of poverty, the donor countries get fatigued about the bootstrapless masses, and war lords roam secure. The US is not alone in this, for European price supports are even more stupendous for other commodities.
Bernd, Baltimore, MD, USA

The sad reality is that poor countries will never get this "fairer" trading regime they have always asked for UE, UK/Nigeria

The sad reality is that poor countries will never get this "fairer" trading regime they have always asked for. And the reason is a very simple one: No Western leader would even contemplate removing these subsidies, which, if nothing else, are a very explosive political issue. Poor countries should therefore begin to examine other possibilities. In the case of Africa, for example, its rulers would do well to begin to put in place the basic State institutions and infrastructure without which no sustainable economic activity can take place. And also consider diversifying from primary produce to other exports. They do not even have to look too far for a good example: Mauritius. It can indeed be done, but only if the likes of Mbeki and Obasanjo would stop making a nuisance of us all (never mind themselves) before the G-8.
UE, UK/Nigeria

I have spent most of my life in Brazil and I followed the efforts to open Brazilian economy to foreign capital since 1980s. Nowadays I guess we have a quite open economy here. Supermarkets, stores, industries, bank, phone and health services and a lot of other services are provided by overseas companies in Brazil. A fairer deal on global trade should consider that too. This information is also helpful to understand why people here have a feeling of betrayal when their products are overtaxed in the same countries that are earning their money here, exploring natural resources, by the way. Once again it seems that no reciprocal relationship is being applied.
Newton, Brazil

This is a fiendishly complex subject, and there are no simple answers. Take food grains or cotton, for example. The massive production and export subsidies received by US & EU producers not only helps keep farmers in business in the US & the EU they are also a direct transfer of resources from the rich to the poorer countries. It's true that the rich country subsidies depress commodity prices to the detriment of poor country farmers, but these low prices are a real benefit to the growing urban masses in many poor countries. And simply removing the subsidies would not in any case lead to greater exports of such commodities from poor countries as few have the ability to produce and export such goods anyway.
Charles, Rome, Italy

I can't feed my family on the warm glow of knowing I'm doing right by Brazil Jeremy, Regina, Canada

They can demand it all they want, but the developing world doesn't set the agenda, or tell us what to do. If my government is going to cause my own people to have a lowered quality of life (not to mention profoundly alter the makeup of the Canadian prairie economy) by providing less support to agriculture, the third world is going to have to give me a much better reason than simple moral indignation. I can't feed my family on the warm glow of knowing I'm doing right by Brazil.
Jeremy, Regina, Canada

They should not have to demand fairer trade, they should have been granted it a long time ago. Let's see how the USA or Japan would cope if they were subject to the restrictions and impositions that shackle developing nations.
Oregan, Brit in Germany

How can the developing countries get out of debt if they cannot sell their goods on the world market? What's the use of producing things if you have no way to sell them? At least they want to earn their money, maybe even use some of their goods to pay off some of the debt they owe developed countries. So I say yes, give them a fair chance. Open up the market for them, China should not focus on trading with the US and Japan only, there is a whole world out there.
Simba Mujuru, Detriot- USA

How much money do the US and EU spend on agricultural subsidies every year? How many "Western" farmers benefit from that? This small lobby is powerful in a very disproportionate way to the percentage of population they represent. National security concerns aside (eg food dependence), I don't understand why governments grant such huge subsidies to the farming lobby. Everyone looses from them - Western consumers and poor farmers in lesser developed nations.
V, Seville, Spain

Blindly freeing up trade restrictions simply rewards corrupt regimes Colin, San Francisco, USA

Blindly freeing up trade restrictions simply rewards corrupt regimes. That said lowering trade barriers, and debt forgiveness, should be used to create greater political accountability in these nations.
Colin, San Francisco, USA

The key words are "fairer" and "demand". Most people are in favour of "fairer" trade rules. Just try getting agreement on their definition. As for "demand", talk is cheap and action dear. If you have not the power to force compliance, to "demand" something isn't particularly bright. Look for a replay of Cancun.
Dave Fremantle, Vancouver, Canada

Developing countries must demand fair trade rules and yes, the wealthy nations, USA, in particular, is guilty of unfair competition. We need to share the world resources, equally.
Marcelle , Eureka, USA

Of course developing countries should demand whatever they can get. Is that not the purpose of any negotiations? At the same time whether agriculture is key just depends on whatever else developed countries offer or take away. It makes no sense to look at the issue as stand-alone. In my opinion all countries should try to get whatever is the best deal for them in global trade negotiations. If developed countries can get away with not opening agriculture but still getting developing countries to open markets then of course they are going to do so.
Jim, Houston, USA

Give these people the chance to build a better life in their own countries Mick, Amsterdam

Anyone in the wealthy nations who does not agree on fairer trade for developing countries should also not complain about the people from developing countries who come here in search of a better life. Because for one thing, removal of protectionist barriers could give these people the chance to build a better life in their own countries.
Mick, Amsterdam, The Netherlands

If the developing countries of the world do not speak up for fair trading rights who will defend them? They need to join hands to demonstrate to the dominant economies of the Europe Union and the United States that they are able to compete. Their trade will further aid in the growth of economies throughout the world.
Will Chaple, Atlanta, Ga USA

The question is - how long is the developing world going to sit by and allow their countries to be plundered by the developed world. We'll see how 'developed' some of the world remains when the developing countries start increasing tariffs on the latest consumer goods from Europe, the USA or the far east to match the kinds of tariffs applied to goods exported by them.
Danie, St Georges, Grenada

This is not a zero-sum game - free trade will ultimately benefit us all. Graeme Phillips, Berlin, Germany

Protectionist economic policies ultimately damage first world industry as well as third world industry. Trade barriers encourage the companies being protected to be uncompetitive and the lack of competition ends up causing prices to be pushed up. Agricultural subsidies are also bad, as the government could instead direct the money to improving infrastructure, rather than propping up insolvent farmers. This is not a zero-sum game - free trade will ultimately benefit us all.
Graeme Phillips, Berlin, Germany (normally UK)

Of course developing nations should demand fair trade. But should the developed nations open themselves completely to cheap products from these nations? I think the larger concern here is the difficulty developed nations will have maintain their standard of living.
Charles , Montreal, Canada

Being from a developed country of "more wealth" I can say that this Country is up to it's eyeballs in debt because of aid to developing countries over the years among other expenses. We have people living here that need help. There are hundreds of thousands of hungry people right here. There needs to be an economic advantage in trade, or there would not be any point. We have already seen what the North American Free Trade Agreement is doing to many jobs. I am not so sure that this is a good idea.
Margaret, Portland USA

To Margaret of Portland, USA: Your country is not "up to its eyeballs in debt" because of "aid to developing countries". Lay the blame where it belongs - at your country's massive arms expenditure of more than $400 billion annually. Of the aid it does give to the poor countries, in 1997 alone, half was related to military assistance and trade.
Ellen, London, UK