New proposals to reform local taxation have been unveiled by the Local Government Association in a bid to create a more accountable and transparent system.
The organisation which represents councils led by all parties, says that the present system of council tax is unfair as it is not related to people's incomes and voters are unable to see a clear connection between local taxes and local spending.
Suggested replacements for council tax include a local income tax as well as taxes covering tourism, congestion and house sales.
Meanwhile, thousands of people are expected to arrive in London this Saturday to take part in a council tax protest.
What do you think of the proposals? Will they create a more accountable and transparent system? Can a fair method of paying for local services be devised?
This debate is now closed. Read a selection of your comments below.
The following comments reflect the balance of opinion we have received so far:
 |  You can't please everyone  |
If pensioners get their way in paying less council tax, then working class middle England folks will be asked to pay even more. We already have much higher outgoings compared to the average pensioner (e.g. big mortgage debt, two car per family, dependant small children etc). So you can't please everyone.
Colin L, Hertfordshire Should education and social services be in the local authority budget at all? Surely this results in a postal code lottery depending on how much councils are able to raise. Surely we should have the same educational standards across the country as presumably dictated by parliament. The same should apply to social services. Would this not solve the funding crisis for council tax?
George McVitie, Houghton-le-Spring. Tyne and Wear
One of the biggest problems with councils is that for the best part of their existence they haven't been regulated. I'd like to see them remain a public organisation but they should be regulated and run like a private company, this is the only way we can ensure we get value for money.
Simon Rerrie, Birmingham, UK
| The current system simply allows the councils blame the government and the government to blame the councils |
To make an open and accountable system, we need to do away with local taxation altogether and have our councils funded centrally from the Treasury. The current system simply allows the councils blame the government and the government to blame the councils for the lack of funds and subsequent tax hikes. At the moment, nobody is directly accountable, and this is what needs to change.
Dan, Yateley, UK If local people pay for their local services they will take much more interest in who's being voted into town halls. Thus the political parties will be dumped in favour of ratepayers associations or the equivalent.Good move !!!
Bruce Fallowfield, Dundee, UK
Local income tax is not the answer, as many seem to think. It will increase admin costs massively to collate and collect it and will mean that everyone will have to complete a local income tax return as well as a national one. It will also cost industry a lot to change payroll software for PAYE, unless they decide we will just get hit with the bill once a year. The method of collection is not the real problem, the real problem is the amounts and how much is wasted.
David R, Plymouth UK
One effect of council tax must be addressed if no other. People who have owned a house in an area for generations which has become 'gentrified' suddenly find the house they bought for a few thousand is 'worth' hundreds of thousands and will be in the highest tax band. Assessing tax on the basis of property value is unfair in these cases and could lead to social 'cleansing' of whole areas, particularly in big cities. A local income tax based on ability to pay would be fairer, providing the sorts of tax avoidance dodges used by the very rich are built out of the system of assessment!
Nick, London, England
It's not just a matter of how the money is raised - council tax, poll tax, local income tax or whatever else they think up - the core problem is so much of our money is wasted. Our local council recently awarded its head an extra �20,000 a year and justified it by saying they had to compete against London wages - even though we are 60 miles from London and no local private firm would attempt to match London salaries! It's time local councils were run more like private companies where money is a scarce commodity and if you haven't got enough coming in you have to make hard decisions.
Chris Ransom, Colchester, UK
The whole point of this tax is for residents to pay for services - it is difficult to therefore link this to ability to pay. If I go to an accountant or dentist or buy goods from a shop, they don't ask me if I am "able to pay", they charge the going rate for the services/goods - the same should be the case with Local Services rather than this being another opportunity for the scrounging elements of our society to attempt to pass more of the burden onto those of us working hard and paying our taxes.
Alastair Hart, Aberdeen, Scotland
You pay larger council taxes for higher value properties because the services provided by government add to the value of your property. If you own property in a region then government services in that region actually put 'free money' into your pocket by increasing the value of your property for you at taxpayers' expense. It is interesting to listen to people arguing that those who have no property should be made to pay for services that they already essentially pay for in the form of an increased rent to a landlord in that region.
Paul, Beds, UK
| Local income tax as far as I can see is just another bite out of the working population |
I have worked in three councils and now work in the private sector. If the councils I worked for had to compete in the private sector they would be bankrupt in less than 12 months, the amount of wastage that goes on in local government is obscene, not to mention the people that are taken on and then proceed to sit there for most of the day reading the paper. Local income tax as far as I can see is just another bite out of the working population, drastically reduce benefits, reduce taxation and get more people working instead of sitting around sponging off the state, which is why our taxes are so high presently!
Simon P, Exeter
It's the part of the council tax set aside for police funding that annoys me at the moment. Here in North Wales, our police force is famously incompetent. Also, why should people with bigger houses pay more council tax? They don't receive any additional services.
Doug, Wrexham, Wales
Why doesn't the UK have a system like Australia where it is a legal requirement to participate in the democratic process (i.e. vote), otherwise you get fined? This way, those who cannot be bothered to vote now would be forced to vote for the best possible deal for all citizens.
Gary, Sydney, Australia
| SUGGEST A DEBATE This topic was suggested by Roddy Fraser, London: Are the new proposals for changes to council tax going to work and are they fair? |
At the moment the bulk of the money a council spends comes from central government. If local government is to be allowed to raise extra tax money, will we see a reduction in the levels of taxation at central government? I suspect not. Hiking the council tax was another wheeze from Gordon Brown to deflect the fact that he is wasting money hand over fist. Rather than putting up income tax, they give less to the councils, who as a result have to hike up their taxes.
Tony, UK, Rochdale
The size of the house does not relate to the ability to pay. The existing tax is just as unfair as poll tax was. I'll remember that when I vote.
Robert Hawtin, Woodbridge, Suffolk
It is a grave pity that so much money seems to be required to operate the council system rather than the demonstratable effect of it. Perhaps it is time to look at the whole council system and not just how it bleeds us.
Graham, UK
If you feel that strongly that you get poor value for money, run for office and do something about it! Personally, I'm perfectly happy that the services I receive represent reasonable value for the money I pay. Oh - by the way - local Income Tax is the fairest means of paying for local services.
John, England
Any change needs to get away from the assumption that 'All Large houses are owned by rich people' and be based on Ability to Pay.
Simon Bradshaw, Southampton, UK
I was a Local Councillor at time of the Poll Tax which on the face of it seemed a fairer system. But like all things these days and then no account was made for ability to pay so it was replaced with Council Tax yet another system that falls to identify ability to pay. We in the South have been hit the hardest mainly due to this governments hatred of the south and this idea we are all on big incomes which we are not. Quite frankly for all its worth I feel local government has become a complete waste of time and maybe to save money we should get rid of them they don't represent the voters anymore.
Marty Marsh, Farnborough Hants The more different taxes we have (income, vat, stamp, petrol, local...) the more it costs to collect them. Why not have one tax, that would reduce the overheads and hence save the country money.
Caron, England
A quick solution would be to adjust the way that houses are banded. In expensive boroughs in central London, practically every property is in the top band, making no distinction between multi million pound houses and 1 bedroom flats. In the cheaper areas of the country there is most likely a bias the other way, where above average houses are in the bottom band. The levels of the bands should be set locally, so that in each authority area the average house price will be in band d, and the values for the other bands set as a percentage of that figure.
James Metcalfe, High Wycombe, Bucks
I am puzzled that so many people do not understand that they can protest, and protest effectively. This is done at the ballot box (you know, that place the majority of the population can't be bothered going to once a year). Unfortunately for many, it is easy to complain about the government or the council, but it is a much more difficult decision to make a positive decision and vote for the best options on offer.
Philip, UK
It is only fair that all members of the population over the age of 18 should make a contribution to local authority services to reflect the benefits they obtain. One system would be a local income tax whereby those who earn pay according to their level of pay. A mistake made with the old Poll Tax was the combining together of married couples so that each was responsible for the others Poll Tax even if only one of them was in paid employment.
Malcolm Haynes, Stockport, England
| No matter how bad the current system is the previous way of allowing local councils to raise money was far worse |
One of the main reasons that central government took over most local government funding 13 years ago is that councils couldn't be relied upon to raise and spend money wisely. Any harebrained scheme could be funded by just jacking up the (then) rates. Core services were even less efficient than they are now as more money was always available to pay for more staff to do less work. Any move back to those ways of working should be resisted. No matter how bad the current system is (and I have no love for it at all) the previous way of allowing local councils to raise money was far worse.
John R Smith, UK I have worked for several councils and I am still amazed at the ignorance of so many people about what they do. Schools, social services, leisure, environment, road safety, planning, control of building works, footpaths, streetlights, crime reduction, parks, economic development, environmental protection - it's not just emptying bins as so many people seem to think.
Yes, the system for funding local government is unfair and needs improving, but all these services are absolutely essential if the quality of life of our local communities is to be improved. If you think you can do better, stand for election to your council, or at least bother to vote. When over 60% of the electorate don't vote at council elections, I find it difficult to see how they have any right to complain.
Paul, England
The police have cut patrols and instead have their cameras funded by the fines, but still my taxes go up. The fire brigade gets stations cut, there are fewer parks and the libraries are open less hours. This happens every year, and still my council tax goes up. The roads are becoming increasingly poorly maintained but still both car tax and council tax rise every year. I don't want a "Big Conversation". I just want someone to explain to me exactly where all this money is going and why every year I pay more for less services.
Katie, Coventry, UK
The Local Government Association is the wrong organisation to suggest reforms. After all, it is merely looking at how money should be raised rather than questioning the expenditure. Until we determine what we are prepared to pay for and what should be provided, this problem will not be solved.
Chris Klein, Chandlers Ford, England
In Harrow, over the last 2 years, they have increased the council tax by a very high percentage. This has recently caused the people of Harrow to start getting together and fight the council and DEMAND to know where they are spending the FORTUNE they have made from us. There are many who have cancelled their direct debits and threaten to stop shopping in Harrow if they continue to do this.
Bhavin Shah, Harrow, Middlesex
| Councillors waste money on junkets they call 'fact finding missions' |
As I live in the town reputed to have the highest Band D council tax in the country, this is a subject very close to my heart (or wage packet!). Councillors waste money on junkets they call 'fact finding missions', university courses (�55k for 2) and endless consultants then say they are 'doing a difficult job with limited resources'. Perhaps when these sorts of issues are addressed council tax can be reduced and spent on the services taxpayers actually require.
Mike, Newark Council tax has been rising constantly without significant improvement in services. It's time to get rid of the inept regimes controlling the councils.
Ahmed Syed, Coventry
As a former local authority employee (7 years/ 3 councils) I am still staggered by the waste and inefficiency in local government. Councils should start going back to what they are statutorily obliged to do rather than the myriad of other activities - particularly 'regeneration' that are better carried out by the private sector.
Jason Adderley, Halesowen, West Midlands
One thing is certain, councils will find new ways to collect money but will not give up the revenues they already get. Forget replacing taxes. It is just another way of getting more and more of your money.
Stan Cooper, UK
I work in a supplier to local government, and the lack of co-ordination between departments and the amount of money that is wasted is truly mind-blowing. And these are the 'good' councils. If councils were businesses the vast majority would be long-since bankrupt. Instead central government keeps pouring in our money, and administering the occasional slap on the wrist. No amount of tinkering with the way local government is funded will sort out the funding crisis. Only root and branch reform of the whole of central and local government will stop us having to pay ever growing proportions of our hard earned money to the bureaucrats and politicians.
Steve, Gtr Manchester
| Let's think how we want our communities to grow |
If local council tax revenues become directly related to the income levels of its community members we shall see a massive quality divide between areas. Councils with a higher proportion of lower income residents will find it difficult to improve the services for its constituents, and provide adequate facilities for those who need them. House prices will rise in wealthier areas, forcing visible divisions between have and have nots. Yes there needs to be a reform, but let's not just jump at the first idea suggested just because we are frustrated with the current rules. Let's think how we want our communities to grow.
Keir, London What's in your wallet? Nothing much thanks to council tax. I noticed one of the comments was about wheelie bins, we've not even got those. Maybe we should privatise the councils, see how long they last!
Hugh, Portsmouth, UK
My council tax keeps increasing every year with reasons such as 24.3% extra for the police force. Yet the local police station has shut down now????
Adrian Hall, Sutton-in-Ashfield, Notts
I dread the arrival of my council tax bill. I can't afford it. Waltham Forest is one of the worst boroughs according to a report. As a civil servant my salary is already low and council tax will rise by more than my salary increase. They need to pay more attention to the income of a household and not assume that we can pay any amount they ask for.
Evrod Samuel
The expression 'linked to ability to pay' strikes fear into my heart - and I wonder if this government is as hell-bent as it seems to get the employed to give up and quit their jobs! Surely by giving discounts to those on benefits/living alone, etc, council tax is already linked to ability to pay? The harder I work to improve life and plug the gaps (you know, endowment shortfalls, pension black holes - that sort of personal finance!), the more the government chases me with its hands out.
Lucy, Midlands, UK
I still prefer the old poll tax - at least it taxed people individually rather than the house they live in. As this is now deeply unpopular then a local income tax has to be the way forward.
Vera Peebles, Newcastle
Changing the way that local government is funded is simply moving the problem from one group of people to another. The REAL solution is reducing the wasteful nature of local Government. The most expensive services provided by local government are education, social services and highways. Schools should be funded directly by the DFEE, Social Services should be brought under the NHS and the Highways Agency should take over the highways remit. This would mean that county councils could be completely abolished.
Carl, Cambridge, UK
Endless trips to 'evaluate Hungarian transport solutions' at first class or business, all courtesy air travel. Ridiculous allowances paid to people who have themselves decided that they are so important that they must lead their local community. The fact that so few members of the public vote just shows how little value they place in their local councils. Councils are nothing but a self glorification role for some individuals whose own self importance knows no bounds. And no doubt people will respond by saying how little I understand what an important role it is and how valuable councillors are. Well before you ask you're right. I don't understand and I never will!
Mike R, Gloucester
Would these proposals mean the scrapping of the councillors' gravy train (sorry - attendance allowances)? I doubt it very much. All our council seems to be doing is allowing houses to be built on greenbelt or a few square yards of brown sites, charging a fortune in tax, and providing no extra services, so I suspect that a new tax will just mean a 25% increase in councillors' allowances and recruiting more thought police.
Alan, Rochdale
My council tax went up by 28% last year (a vast increase compared to inflation), and we're not getting any better or different services. In other words it was just another stealth tax, and now some bright spark wants to plonk yet another tax on us? Anything that involves "income tax" to cover tourism, congestion, and house sales, will automatically destroy tourism, more congestion taxes will destroy businesses as has already happened in Central London, and yet more tax on house sales will take away any profit that people may hope to make, and stop even more people from getting on the housing ladder (myself included). I can actually see a situation, not too far in the future, where anyone working will not have any actual money, just vouchers doled out by the government.
Sue Hudson, London, UK
Wow, wait till your council tax band is re-evaluated in 2005. That's right 2005. Whereas Wales and Scotland may dodge the recent increases in property values during their present rebanding exercise, those of us in England will have bandings based on the value of our properties in 2005. What a gang of mugs this government takes us for.
Gary, Aughton, UK
We had a vote in Somerset to reform the council tax yesterday. The Tories and the Labour Party managed to get it defeated. They won't be getting my vote in the future.
Bob, UK
I think they should tackle the immoral wasting of our ever increasing contributions before any other reforms are made. I pay �94 per month to have my poxy little wheelie bin emptied. I can take ten times that much to a commercial waste depot for �15! Tell me this isn't a rip off.
Paul Sealey, Cannock, England
It may make things easier for central and local government to have these changes. However will the man in the street see any reduction in central government tax in the light of the obvious increases in local government taxes and changes in responsibility?
Robert Macindoe, Swansea, Wales
| No system will ever be entirely fair |
Before looking at how councils are financed we should take a step back and look at what the council should actually be doing. It's all very well saying money can be raised from this source or that source but the underlying question is whether the money should be raised at all. If local taxes are raised then central taxes should be reduced or the result is simply that we all end up paying even more. No system will ever be entirely fair but with one body after another trying to take a slice of my salary I wonder when we will reach the point where there is simply no point in going out to work at all.
John B, UK The fairest tax for local services is that everyone pays the same amount, as each person has the same ability to use the services regardless of the size of the house etc. This principle applies to all major services, phone, electricity and gas. Why should some people pay less for the same services as others?
Caron, England
The amount of waste in local government is staggering. I'd like to see this tackled before I'm asked to contribute yet more of my ever-diminishing salary to a bottomless pit.
Dean, UK
There certainly is a need for an urgent revision of the banding for council tax. The top amount is too low. However there is no correlation between the value of a house and the ability of someone to pay based on that valuation. A local tax based on personal circumstances is a much fairer system.
Jill, Edinburgh, UK
I have never understood why people on unemployment benefit etc make no contribution to council tax. My current council tax is now approximately 10% of my monthly salary. I am not suggesting for one minute that 10% of their benefit is used for council tax but I am sick and tired of my council tax bills going up year after year and having to subsidise others. People's ability to pay is never taken into consideration and I seem to be in the position that I earn too much to be able to claim any top-ups but not enough to be able to pay these bills comfortably.
Debbie, Gateshead, Tyne and Wear
Scrap ALL final salary schemes in local councils immediately. Concentrate on what people NEED not the nice to haves. This will save millions. Ability to pay needs to be taken into account. I'm in the same position as Debbie from Gateshead where I earn too much to claim any top-ups but where I get hit for every rise going. How can anyone raise a tax or bill above inflation when we are getting at or below inflation pay rises?
Kev, UK
Two issues come to my mind here. The first is an overhaul of the council tax system in England that will be determined by Scottish MPs who should have no say in the lives of their English constituents, and secondly to moot the idea of regional income tax is another step along the road to splitting up England into so called 'regions' to comply with the EU's directive. Don't believe me? Then check out the EU's website and see the map of Europe. No such thing as England there. It is a fait accompli. Maybe a long drawn out one, but a fait accompli nonetheless.
G. Williams, Sussex, England
The payment of local tax though the existing system is a good idea but only if council tax was abandoned totally. This would cut the bureaucracy and cost of local tax collection. High earners live in expensive houses, so this would also avoid the need to assess houses for banding.
Dave Lloyd, Walsall, England No it will not make thing fairer. The new measures will be aimed at extracting as much money as they can from "middle income" earners while heavily discounting the amount paid by work-shy layabouts. Each year I get a pay rise and each year my disposable income goes down in various taxes. This is not a fair system.
Mike, UK
I live in a rented multi-occ house and my landlord pays the council tax. With local income tax I'll be whacked for a fortune to live in a dump. No it's not fair!!
Tom G, Slough UK
Surely the starting point for this debate has to be "what should we pay for locally and what should we pay for regionally (or nationally)?" Answers to these questions would then determine the best method of raising the required funds.
Ian Harvey, Maidenhead, UK
My council tax last year amounted to over a 1/4 of my mortgage and for what? To be told that our public services are to be reduced and bin collections will be changing to once a fortnight instead of once a week. I object to having to pay towards our local Mayor's Bentley along with various trips abroad by local councillors to view twinning proposals, very unfair. Would they support the running of my car and pay for my family to take a couple of trips abroad a year? I very much doubt it!
Lorraine, Northwich, UK
It's a tax so will never be fair. Why not scrap the inefficient local and county councils? This will save money and the services can't be much worse than they are now.
Keith, UK
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