The 'secrecy culture' over salary levels is helping to perpetuate the pay gap between men and women, according to research by the Equal Opportunities Commission. Nine out of ten women surveyed by the organisation said they would expect to be paid the same as a man with the same qualifications.
However, it was revealed that men earn on average �559 a month more than women before tax.
The commission believes greater openness over pay would help bring women's pay into line with their male peers.
Should there be more openness over salary levels? Is there a 'secrecy culture' over pay where you work? Would you ask your boss how much your colleagues earn?
The following comments reflect the balance of opinion we have received so far:
This debate is now closed. Read your comments below.
Your reaction:
Since our company has closed the entry to its final salary pension scheme, people joining the company now earn a higher salary to compensate. Therefore on paper, two people doing the same job may have vastly different salaries, but hopefully the total benefits package will be equal.
Adam, Oxford, UK
 |  It would certainly make poaching staff a walk in the park  |
It would certainly make poaching staff a walk in the park. We also need to know the value of benefits they get - salary without benefits is meaningless. Similarly, salary without knowing the hours everyone works is completely meaningless, so companies should publish the hours all their staff actually work. Then we might get an idea of who is doing what.
Steve, UK So women are poor negotiators, tough. Why must this yet again be remedied by law, I thought 'sisters were doing it for themselves', or is that just more marketing slop?
Gerry, Scotland
A sure fire way of injecting vast quantities of politics and back-stabbing into otherwise well functioning teams. I find it hard to believe that anyone's job is exactly the same as anyone else's - is there really a good basis for comparison? Your salary is between your employer and you - if you think you're worth more, stop whingeing, go to the jobs market and find out if it's true.
Phil, London
Business has been male dominated since business was invented, so it's hardly surprising that it suits men more. As women are becoming more and more like men, it's suiting them more too.
Steve, UK
The biggest point most people are missing is that why shouldn't two people doing the same job, get the same pay? It should have nothing to do with age, sex, or ability, as if you're doing the same, job, where does ability come into it? Apart from that, there are soma appalling attitudes being expressed on this forum, with some views dating back to Victorian days! Shame on you! This is 2004, wake up at the back!
Steve, UK
In nursing everyone knows what scale you are on and can therefore work out approximately what you are paid between the top and bottom of that scale depending how many years you have been at that level. Then you have to add working nights, weekends, Xmas day etc. Men, women, black, white, straight, gay, Jewish or Buddhist, everyone gets equal pay for the same job. Sounds fair to me!
Ursula, Wales
The overriding reasons given by the comments I've read so far for not being open about pay is that a) it makes life more difficult for managers because people paid less than their counter-parts (reasonably in my opinion) expect to know why and b) because we have a scrupulously fair working life in this country based on merit, contribution and hard work. What? The former is hardly acceptable and I'd love to live in the world described by the latter argument!
Kerry, West Yorks
Yes, pay should be open to scrutiny by all employees. Then we will be able to see who/which position is value for money, or not, as the case may be.
Sara Lynes, Abingdon, Oxon, England Having worked with my company for 16 months now, it is clearly obvious who earns more and who doesn't. Not only are temporary workers shunned but a lot of people also carry out a number of higher role tasks that they don't get paid for. There is no reason why men should get paid more then us, they are no better than us at our jobs (and I can vouch for that!). This is a day and age where equality is a major issue, maybe if more females were allowed to have managerial jobs then things would be re-thought.
Kim.C, Barnet, Herts
Let's face it. There will always be violations in women rights and pay is just one of them. Women can do the same work as men in one job or another - in some cases better; but we will always have less knowledge and rights on how to gain the knowledge and respect most women deserve.
PM, UK
One's salary has nothing to do with one's gender. If one is very valuable to the company one's salary will reflect that. If one is not so valuable and could easily be replaced then, of course, one will be paid less. Selling one's labour is just like selling anything else....it's only worth what one can get for it.
Kulu, Basingstoke, UK
Salaries are market driven, paid to new recruits at the going rate. The only way to keep up with market forces is to switch jobs regularly.
Les, Manchester
The comments about performance related pay are OK if it was applied fairly - but often it isn't. It is often decided by a manager and subject to no independent review. If you don't get on that well with your boss, for whatever reason, you are stuffed. If salaries were discussed more some bosses would not be able to get away with some of the tricks they pull. Also people would have less reason to look for another job. In my experience perceived or genuine differences in salary result in a lot of people changing jobs. Remember an employee actively seeing a new job is not the most productive worker in the team.
Glyn, Japan
| Maybe there should be some kind of scaling for professional qualifications |
It is all very well saying that anyone can be discriminated against, but this realisation does not change a thing. The truth is we get paid a salary to do a job, if we want more money we need to either show we are worth it or prove that our position has a higher market value. Publishing rates will never work, people have benefits that add on and in areas of the country one salary is good, where as in others it wouldn't cover even basic living expenses. Maybe there should be some kind of scaling for professional qualifications.
Vicky, Dorset A company paying fair wages should have nothing to hide.
David
Salaries should remain private between the employer and employee. The employee should be rewarded accordingly for the level of work they carry out, their effort in carrying out the tasks involved, and the risks involved. On that basis, a good competent hard working employee should earn more for the same job title compared to an employee who is incompetent and a slacker in the workplace.
However if salaries are made public the incompetent employee will want to be earning the same as the competent worker, after all they both have the same job title ... Keep things quiet to stop rifts arising
Kevin Hendley, Reading, England
In every job I've ever had there has been some element of negotiation over pay, to the point where in my last position I was paid more than my boss. He was not pleased when he found out, and this made my life far more difficult. So no, we should not have more transparency over pay.
Anonymous, London England
Although not politically correct to say so, there's also genetics here. Males tend to be more aggressive, dominant, determined and competitive. This is true across most mammals (and all apes) and we are not as different as we like to think. This results in a much greater number of men in managerial roles and so is reflected in salaries. Of course there are those women that ARE aggressive and competitive, there are just much fewer of them. A changing culture and more encouragement to working women will alter the balance but it will take time.
Simon, UK
| Women tend to gravitate toward administrative and support positions |
The fallacy in the ubiquitous statement, "women expect to be paid the same as a man," is that there is generally no set pay scale among men in any given organisation. Men often do not make as much as other men in the same position with the same experience. Often, it is a question of being at the right place at the right time, or even just demanding more. Also, the comparison of how much men earn on average compared to women is meaningless unless the statistics are broken down by profession and experience, etc. The fact is, even in this day and age women tend to gravitate toward administrative and support positions more so than men. These tend to be lower paying jobs.
Eric, Detroit, USA Yes there should be more openness. It's not women who are the biggest category of losers when it comes to pay but temporary workers. If a company had to declare wage rates temporary workers would be able to negotiate a fairer deal.
John Ley, High Wycombe, England
Why just go with the discrimination of sex, what about age too, or which part of the country you live in? And the average wage, where I live? I don't know anyone who could aspire to IT!
Nick, Ossett, West Yorks, UK
I find this trend of equalisation ridiculous. Most salaries are negotiated between employer and employee. It is the employee's responsibility to know what he or she is worth and what a position's market rate is. If you think they are offering too little negotiate something. The downside is of course you don't get the job but it's a risk you have to be willing to pay. Employers by nature will try to pay the least amount to get the most qualified person. If I am paying someone it is my right to offer what I want.
Setijo, Manila, Philippines
Presumably the difference in average pay between men and women takes into account that women retire five years earlier than men, stay at home bringing up the kids, going to the gym and go shopping more than men and, on the whole live longer than men - another five years - in retirement as pensioners!
Martin, Northern England
| Jealousy and the lack of self-responsibility in this country is unbelievable! |
I remember a laughable pay review meeting, where I was told I should share all the large commission that I had earned (by getting in at 7am, leaving at 7pm, actively working my socks off to sell as much as possible) with my "team" merely because when I was away from my desk when I went to the toilet or to lunch they'd have to pick up my phone. Jealousy and the lack of self-responsibility in this country is unbelievable!
D, Henley, UK Salary secrecy is a fallacy. Human Resources departments typically have guidelines they must maintain within a company regarding salaries. They must also maintain any governmental guidelines about fair wages. So, that being said, the only secrecy is between fellow employees. In my opinion, it should remain that way. It is no one else's business what someone else earns and if they are unhappy with what they themselves earn, then they should speak to their supervisor about changing that or go work somewhere else.
Joe, Indianapolis, Indiana USA
Our company forbids us from discussing salary with one another. It's totally understandable when you consider that people doing the same job can have a variance of up to �10k in my experience - and usually it's the lesser paid who is the harder worker. I sit in the middle, so I don't care either way, but I can imagine the backstabbing, bitchiness and general instability it would cause in the workplace if we were free to divulge our salaries at will.
Andy, UK
Typically, the ones who are concerned about what others are being paid are those who feel they are being paid less. Am I the only one who sees the reason why?
Gillian, UK
| It is not the right of a worker to know another workers wages |
Where a person is employed in a position of public office/civil service i.e. the wages are paid by taxes, then salaries are rightly disclosable to the public. However, in private industry, the only people who need to know the salary levels are the managers and the individual employees. What they are paid is their own business and not the business of their colleagues. Perhaps wages should be the subject to independent but discreet scrutiny to ensure that fairness is maintained but it is not the right of a worker to know another workers wages as people are employed on the basis of various abilities and potential.
Mark H, UK The Equal Opportunities Commission is being disingenuous with its argument that men on average earn �559 a month than women before tax. This has absolutely nothing to do with equal pay for the same job, it is to do with the fact women tend to pre-dominate in part-time and low paid jobs, while at the other end high paid board members tend to be men so of course there is a difference in the average pay of men and women.
Stephen, St. Ives, England
A wise man once said "money is like love, nice to have, vulgar to discuss".
Gavin Ayling, Brighton, England
Whilst there are good reasons mentioned to make salaries public, there is one overriding reason to keep them private. Greed and jealousy. Most large corporations pay performance-related salary within clear bands for each grade. This means that it is possible for a large group of people within the same band to have different salaries, with the ones on the highest salaries adjudged to be worth the top amount.
The biggest personnel issues I have come across in my time as a manager has been employees finding out what others have been paid and wanting parity even though they have been judged to be worth their current salary.
Si W, Darlington, County Durham
| These rates are received by men and women alike |
The armed forces pay rates are published. These rates are received by men and women alike. Just knowing how long somebody has served in their particular rank will clearly show their rate of pay. This has not led to any problems to my knowledge.
Peter Farrow, Wiltshire In many jobs in the past it was easier to tell how much colleagues were paid because it was closely related to their job grade. In more recent years there has been a trend towards much wider salary bands in many jobs which allows more scope for performance related pay. One effect of this change has been to obscure earnings and as a result people are more uncertain about how they are doing relative to everyone else. Since this can lead to suspicion and ill feeling I think more openness would be beneficial.
Chris, Dorking, Surrey
The problem over having a more openness regarding pay means that it makes it more difficult to reward good workers with raises because others will complain that they are doing the same job but making less. There is something to be said for quality of work and bosses should be allowed, within a range, to determine what an employee gets paid, based on performance.
Jill, Springfield, PA, USA
I am strongly against the publishing of individual salaries. However, I do think that companies should publish the salary bands for the jobs or job grades. There needs to be more openness, but it should relate to the rate for the job rather than the individual.
Richard Roberts, Welwyn, Herts
Maintaining the culture of secrecy means that employers can get away with unfair and unprofessional pay structures, rewarding not by merit but by whatever other criteria they choose, including sexism, favouritism, personal grudges etc. While workers are content to go along with this they will continue to support their own disempowerment. The only way to achieve a fair system in this respect is to have openness and honesty between employees. This would force employers to redress any disparity between workers doing similar jobs.
Susie Hurley, Reading, Berkshire Where I work it has nothing to do with culture. My contract of employment expressly forbids me from discussing my salary with any other employee.
Andy, UK
I suspect that many people who wish to keep their pay a secret do so because they suspect that they are not worth it. In the cases of highly paid business executives, frankly they probably aren't. How can they possibly be working any harder, or have any more responsibility, than a doctor or nurse on a 36 hour shift?
Keith, Bristol
No because, in my experience, disclosure of anything even remotely related to pay can lead to disaster. I remember a badly-handled awards ceremony when certain team members were publicly given cheques to reward "good performance" with no indication of why they were chosen. Those who got nothing, but worked on the same team, asked why they were left out and the recriminations went on for months ...
Alastair Scott, London, UK
| If anyone wants clear salary transparency they should work in public services or the civil service |
It would not be appropriate for everyone to have to disclose their salary. I work in a professional services environment and we are all awarded differently depending on our experience, commitment and business development skills - even within the same grade and gender. We have a majority of partners who are male, but this is not because of any sexist approach, but as a matter of fact, women are less likely to work full-time for 40 years than men. If anyone wants clear salary transparency they should work in public services or the civil service.
Simon, England I strongly disagree. I think that your pay is strictly between your employer and you. I find it very annoying when people at work casually ask "so what pay you on then?". Don't be so nosey!
PS, London, UK
Every company should have their employees' salaries listed clearly and openly on the notice boards. Then we could deal with sexism, racism, ageism and favouritism in a meaningful manner and hit the bigots where it really hurts - in their pockets.
Patrick, Fleet, Hants
What has everyone got to hide? Are employers embarrassed about how much they are making out of their workforce?
Noel, Oxford
Men and women are just as equal as each other. We are in the 21st century now! The world needs to open its eyes and realise how stupid and outdated this sounds!
Amber, Taunton, Somerset
| This is a real intrusion into privacy |
You salary is a private contract between yourself and your employer. It should not be made publicly available. This is a real intrusion into privacy. It is up to the individual to negotiate this. This is all part of the employment world and the open market. Some people who do the same job as me get paid more money than I do. This is because they made a better deal. I am not bitter. I can go elsewhere. This is nanny politics and ultimately will lead to everybody being forced to be on the same "rations" by order of the state.
Nick, UK It's not only the difference between sexes that is a problem, it is also between workers doing the same job. New employees where I work have a different deal to myself and get less money and worse conditions. Management now are trying to lower our pay and conditions as well. This they can do by just changing the job title, make us redundant and employ us on new contracts. Is that fair? There is a wider issue here than just the difference between men and women.
Tudor Morgan, Kent
Absolutely, but it needs to work for both men and women, not just for women as is currently the case.
Nick, Poole, UK
I don't think business should be open about salaries. The more you know about other people's salaries the more likely it is to upset you. Recently, I found out I'm the lowest paid person in my department and it made my working life a misery.
Ben, Yeovil, Somerset
The main problem with difference in pay is not having women in managerial ranks. Although there have been quite a significant increase, it has never even come close to the volume of men in managerial ranks. The way we do business has been predominantly male-dominated for decades and for that to shift will take quite a bit of time.
Vijay Bysani, Newcastle, UK
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