Insurance giant Norwich Union has announced plans to cut 2,350 jobs in the UK in order to create new ones in India. Norwich Union is part of insurance group Aviva, which already has offices in Bangalore, where about 1,000 staff process general insurance claims.
Norwich Union's decision reflects a growing trend among UK firms such as British Telecom to move customer support and call centre jobs to Asia to cut costs.
Is Norwich Union right to move operations to Asia?
This debate is now closed. Read a selection of your comments below.
The following comments reflect the balance of views we have received:
As a procurement specialist obtaining services, a wise buyer will use all avenues available to procure the right goods, service or product at the right price and the right quality. If procuring these services from India provides a lower cost base whilst maintaining or improving service levels it can hardly be argued not to continue down this route. Every country has a competitive advantage. People should stop complaining about fairness, UK job losses etc and think macro long term.
Benny, UK
Many of the contributors have mentioned that workers in India are being paid less than their British counterparts, as if this was somehow slave labour. Please bear in mind that the cost of living in India is much cheaper than "rip-off" Britain, and call workers in India are actually paid well for the economy they live in. You are talking about a country where last year my father paid �130 for two-made-to-measure suits.
P Fatania, England
 |  It's inevitable for enterprises to make more profits by means of cutting costs and improving quality of staff  |
Globalisation is on its way all over the World. It's inevitable for enterprises to make more profits by means of cutting costs and improving quality of staff. Taiwan already has many competitions in local markets from foreign companies including the insurance business and electronic manufacturing. We are glad to face this competition.
S, Taiwan, Taipei All the fuss isn't about a drop in standards or not wanting to communicate with the people in India, it is about British jobs being lost. The increase in the population through birth rates and immigration must be leading to more jobs being needed. Instead they are lost to other countries.
Zoe, England
Keep British jobs in Britain. Gordon Brown should hit these firms hard as it is going to affect the economy badly to lose jobs here. It's a disgrace how these companies can both exploit third world labour markets and treat loyal British workers and customers in this shameful profit maximisation exercise.
Malcolm Shone, UK
My wife's family live in a small village in China. There are no young people in the village because they've all gone to work in factories in the south. They work for pitiful wages in slave-like conditions. The companies kick them out when they're 25 - if they make it that far.
Geoff Cockayne, UK
Despite the trumpet blowing about how marvellously trained the Indian operators are, I cannot see how an effective customer dialogue can be established with someone on a different continent. For anything other than very basic transactions I think customers will vote with their feet and drift towards those companies who maintain UK operations.
Chris Leonard, UK
As a trade unionist it's no surprise to me that firms move jobs where workers are cheapest. The only real answer is for workers to link up internationally to set minimum wages and conditions, so we can't be played off against each other.
Ben Drake, York, UK
Thankfully, I no longer need to work in call-centres. When I did, my 'rudeness' (as in, not always telling people what they wanted to hear) was a product of the verbal abuse of the idiotic majority with whom I had to speak. I reckon in 10 years Asians will be fed up with it too. So where next?
Mark S, England
After witnessing the painful transition from a manufacturing to a service economy in the UK over the last 20 years, we are now starting to see the loss of those service sector jobs. Leaders of large companies who are doing this argue that that they need to do this to remain competitive in a global market place and to offer value to customers, but it's hard to imagine that bills will steadily decrease. Of course the real winners are company shareholders, who will see their already healthy dividends increase.
Rag, Czech Republic
What I find hard to understand is that no one is talking about the long term effects of moving operations outside the UK. These jobs are there to support us - the UK customers. By moving jobs out of the UK then all we are doing is moving the wealth out of the country. In the end we will have huge unemployment and a failing economy. If this trend continues then there may be no consumers to "support".
Andy K, UK
I shall be trying to avoid doing business with companies that are taking this sort of action.
Gordon Walkley, UK
| My experience with Indian customer service people is that they are unfailingly friendly and usually sharp |
The option is not Indians or Brits - it's Indians or some automated helpline. Give me Indians any day. My experience with Indian customer service people is that they are unfailingly friendly and usually sharp.
Steve, USA
No, absolutely not. Not only are you putting more people out of work here, you are paying Indian workers less than a quarter in wages for exactly the same job. It's greed pure and simple. Insurance premiums never seem to go down even if you never make a claim. I heard that Barclays are considering cutting jobs and transferring them to India and if they go ahead with it, I shall be taking my account elsewhere. The same goes for any other companies I deal with. If we all did thee same and took our business elsewhere, the profits be hit hard, and it would serve them right!
Jo Edwards, England
I don't understand why this is causing such a commotion. This sort of job outsourcing has been going on for many years both in the hi-tech software industry and in the product development industry (Nike, Reebok, Lee to name a few). Countless number of Indian engineers were hired to update the current systems for the Y2K switch. The process is now repeated for the customer service industry to cut costs and increase profits. This is how globalization and capitalism works. The people who gripe about the Indian representatives unable to speak English are obviously living in denial.
Vijay, India/USA
| Simply take your business elsewhere |
It may be a globalised world, but it is the greed of global organisations that is driving jobs out of the UK market place. They are not benefactors of India they are just looking to maximise their profits. This can only be beaten by people power. Simply take your business elsewhere.
Graham Ridler, Hong Kong To compound the irony of this latest decision, my employer EDF Energy (A French owned company) Today released a statement affirming the fact that they would be keeping its call centres in the UK as (To paraphrase one of our senior managers) "We believe that the interests of our customers are best served by staying in the community we serve". This awareness of the importance of supporting the communities our customers live and work in should be a lesson to all the companies currently exporting jobs abroad. After all, if all the jobs are exported abroad, who will have money to buy your products?
Chris Mitchell, UK
Globalisation and the loss of jobs is the price we pay for capitalism. The bottom line in this system is money and profit. If it is profitable for a company to up sticks they will. Multi-nationals do it because they can. The most important people are the shareholders and how much profit can be made for them. Employees are at the back of the queue after the customers. Capitalism is a pyramid system where the majority slave away for the few that own the companies. It creates huge inequalities and problems like all ideologies.
Sarah, England
| Redundancy has not been offered as an option. In short, take it or leave |
I think I speak on behalf of the majority of staff who are employed by Norwich Union, that this is an absolute betrayal. Having worked for NU for the past 7 years in the motor claims dept, we are now being forced to transfer to another part of the business, which we feel our skills and expertise will go to waste. If we are not willing to accept, what they consider to be suitable alternative roles, redundancy has not been offered as an option. In short, take it or leave.
Sue, England George Bush may not be the most popular person with some of the UK public but at least he wouldn't let American jobs be exported in the same way that Tony Blair has. When will we outlaw corporate greed?
Dave, UK
To Dave, UK. I'm afraid you are misinformed buddy - America leads the way in this trend. The difference? They don't advertise it. GE is one huge player doing this, and so is Oracle Corp.
Paul, Australia,
In response to Dave. Contrary to what you may think, jobs in the US are also moving ten a penny towards Mexico and Asia. Unfortunately we all live in a global economy now, and countries such as the UK and US need to focus towards some of the real facts that are making companies take that decision to go to countries like India. At the end of the day Asia and the Mid East is are economies ready and eager to work, with a highly educated dedicated (per capita) mentality, unlike a lot of people in the western world who have become accustomed to relatively high standard of live for a relatively low standard of work.
Shane , US formally UK
My experience of call centre staff in India has been that they are highly intelligent; understand your problem and they find the solution. My experience of call centres in England on the other hand has been appalling, with moronic staff who promise to do something but time and again have failed to do so. Any company wanting to improve the quality of its service and reduce its costs will find it irresistible not to go to India.
P Fatania, England
We are living in a globalised world. There you can hardly control the rational profit maximizing behaviour unless you back to 1970s economic policies. Well, companies of developed countries have used to outsourcing their commodity production process since long. Now they have gone one more step further by outsourcing of their customer services. People from developing countries have tried to find their fortune by way of migrating to developed countries. The momentum has reached to unparallel level recently. It was well beyond the traditional "brain drain" process. Now jobs are coming after them to their own countries.
W. Wimalaratana, Sri Lanka
It is nice to see India taking us on at our own game and winning. It's just like the cricket; if we want to win, we need to improve our game.
Chris Klein, UK
I am very concerned for the youth of today and tomorrow. The jobs being outsourced both voice and now data-orientated roles are the more commoditised roles, roles that 16 - 30 year olds cut their teeth on when coming in to the world of work; customer services, administration, payroll etc. To talk about more financially robust economy in my view is irresponsible. The cost of unemployment, of youth disenfranchisement is high.
Amanda White, UK
| People forget the awful service they have been receiving from UK call centres |
People all of a sudden become sentimental and forgetful when it comes to the subject of moving jobs out of the country. Firstly they forget the awful service they have been receiving from UK call centres and the fact that they move their custom as a result of this or to save a few pounds per year. People have never in the past valued this service, but start now to get sentimental about it.
Chris, UK If more people started writing to their banks etc., instead of phoning then maybe this issue would be resolved. I can think of few issues that require such an urgent response that only a 'phone call will do.
Chris Burton, UK
Definitely NOT. I made a claim on my house insurance only four weeks' ago with Norwich Union. I had to spell nearly everything out and was on the phone for 45 minutes. I became extremely frustrated, passing the phone over to my husband in the end and will not be renewing my insurance with them next year!
Tracey, England
A solution would be to change corporate income tax laws. If a companies labour base is 30% UK and 70% foreign, then tax them heavily on 70% of their income. Use it to pay for benefits of unemployed UK workers. A company whose employment base is 70% UK and 30% foreign would pay income tax on only 30% of its income. With a simple change in the tax law you could kill off outsourcing jobs overseas.
Gerod Wattier, U.S.A.
It appears that the principal reason for employing overseas staff is money. They work for less - it's as simple as that. Maybe if our government substantially reduces taxes (direct and indirect) then the employees of this country would be willing to work for less money and this in turn would keep jobs in Britain.
Gordon Sinclair, England
| Governments must clearly draw lines beyond which corporations cannot cross |
Free and fair competition is a fine thing, but where big corporations are concerned it is usually neither. Asian workers are entitled to the same standard of living as Western workers, but it is only a matter of time before they are laid off in favour of cheaper labour somewhere else. Globalisation produces a plantation mentality on the part of executives, who are ultimately accountable only to their shareholders, not their fellow citizens. There is no easy answer to balancing a market economy with a 'social contract.' But governments must clearly draw lines beyond which corporations cannot cross in order to protect workers from being used and discarded.
JR Lewis, USA & UK I have today cancelled my home and motor policies with the Norwich Union just as I also cancelled my HSBC bank account last month too. It won't make any difference to these companies, but it makes me feel better. Nice of the Prime Minister to come out and give the usual support for the British workers. Perhaps we should replace our own MPs with MPs from India and other Asian/ South East Asian countries, as they will obviously do the job for a cheaper salary.
Jon, Dudley, West Midlands
Why don't Norwich Union and all those other companies make an effort to be more productive? By taking away jobs from the UK, they will be losing customers who won't be able to pay for their services. In the long run, it does more harm than good. It's already annoying to phone customer support for some companies and have to deal with people whose English isn't much good.
Fatimah Begum, UK
| Greed at the top is a rapacious as ever |
Where is the empirical data to support this claim that exporting jobs to India is actually necessary or beneficial? Where are the studies which show the long term effects on society in the UK? I am appalled at how willing people are to accept that whatever corporations want must some how be inevitable and best for your country in the long run. Greed at the top is a rapacious as ever.
Nan Hamilton, USA After suffering the result of the move of Australian call centre jobs to India by American Express - a definite NO! Also, no reduction to customer costs with this cost cutting move!
M. Pagan, Australia
As someone who deals with companies like Norwich Union on a daily basis I am appalled by this. Although the present system does not work (getting answers out of insurance companies is near on impossible) I feel that this is a huge step backwards. I for one will never recommend a Norwich Union product again, and hope that many of my colleagues in financial services will follow suit. I also believe that if companies insist in using a workforce in another country they should pay a higher rate of corporation tax to make up for the revenue the Treasury will lose due to the many redundancies that are taking place.
Anon, England
I would like to know if the companies who are outsourcing to India will also be reducing their premiums, bank charges etc since they will be making substantial savings on their prime costs. Their customers in the UK are entitled to receive some benefits.
Saqib Khan, UK
Can anyone in the UK deny having to wait 10-20 minutes before their calls are answered (for most services such as phone lines, TV, gas etc.). At UK salaries companies cannot have enough staff to cater to their customers - so what's the harm if they leverage the lower wages and qualified and dedicated staff from India? In the bargain they make savings which results in higher profits to the UK. Also, if you expect others to toe the WTO line, you should be prepared to do so yourself too.
Rajesh Chary, Mumbai, India
| Unfortunately capitalism is brutal |
The best known wealth creator is capitalism. The greater the purity of capitalism in your system the more successful you will be. If half our nation has no idea what being completive entails then we might as well start aiming for a lot less wealth like Eastern Europe. The introduction of a protectionist approach no matter how small could hold a false economy together for years but would harm us long term especially when our nations accumulated wealth has gone. Unfortunately capitalism is brutal and maybe tomorrow I will out of a job, there is no answer to this and there is little anyone can do to prevent it other than to reinvent themselves again and again. If you want to play with the big boys you have to do what ever it takes to compete.
Paul, London, UK
If your work does not require you to physically interact with something in the UK, it could probably be done cheaper in India. If you make something it could probably be made cheaper in China. If we as a nation do nothing about this, most of us will soon be doing nothing. And then who will pay the tax for the civil servant's index-linked pensions?
Old Tone, UK
Welcome to globalisation. The message is clear - our competition is not the person next door, but the one in Bangalore or Chennai. I don't se how we can stop it other than by being smarter and competitive. This is no different to the loss of basic manufacturing jobs.
George, England
| The quality of service is substantially poorer |
I work for an IT Helpdesk in the UK. The company for which this Helpdesk is for also has one in India that handles out of hours calls for us as we only do UK office hours. The quality of the support from there is very poor, and the language difficulties make it even harder for the customers to get the information that they need. The customer ends up calling us during UK office hours, frustrated and angry, for us to solve their problem. I know that it is cheaper for companies to use far east call centres, but the quality of service is substantially poorer than provided by UK ones. I'd advise anyone to avoid companies that use foreign call centres for this sort of thing, including my own!
Justin Brig, United Kingdom
Wasn't it a British Company called the East India company that had come to India for trade and then stayed for over a hundred years as the masters of India. The Brits are finally getting a taste of their own medicine.
Ajay Gupta, India
The service provided by these India Call Centres is simply not up to the standards the general public will expect and Norwich Union can only be basing this decision on the fact that they hope the majority of their customers will never need to speak to one. They will soon realise that the customers who do, will not be renewing their policies.
AR, UK
| What has gone so wrong with a country when there are hardly any protests from either Government Ministers or Opposition MPs? |
How can it be right for a major company to move such a large amount of jobs abroad, be it to Europe, Asia or Africa? What has gone so wrong with a country when there are hardly any protests from either Government Ministers or Opposition MPs. The only protests are from the parties of the right, such as the BNP - How can this be right? Or are they the main party of opposition? All our main manufacturing jobs have gone, our fishing and farming communities are being decimated, Our Coal-mining industry is in the doldrums, and now our Service Industries are relocating abroad - What future for this Country? I see none, and I see no hope with a change of government to the Tories or Lib Dems. Our country needs a wake-up call, and as a very recent convert, I truly believe that the BNP can do it - Watch out for the Euro and Council Elections next year!
Mr B Frost, England There are many problems with moving support centres to India. One of which, in my experience, is language. Dell's support is in India and although you might get through to a 'friendly voice', most of the time they have no idea what you are talking about because of the lack of being able to speak English. Their technical knowledge is sometimes zero. A colleague of mine could not even speak to a supervisor because the support person did not understand why he would want a supervisor... It might be cheaper for companies in the short time, but in the long run it will result in a loss of custom. Maybe this is wake-up call for the small business to brush up on customer service!!!
Marie, Canada
I work for a major bank and I know for a fact they are considering moving their call centres to India. The problem here is that British people complain to each other but do nothing about it. I'm a NU customer and from January they will have to replace my account with one from Asia cause I will be moving to a UK company. If enough people did this it would close them down. Support British companies !!!
Adrian Lenton, West Yorks, UK
Depends on the job really. For instance, if it's about brewing beer or English comedy or something along those lines, I'd say no. But if it's something intellectual or clerical or research-like or service oriented you would get a better product by moving it out of the UK. Thanks for asking. Please don't hesitate to contact me again.
Jacob Jakes, SA
It is not a question of should or should not. British firms have to be competitive. Costs are high in Europe, with frequent protests and walk outs by staff, are some of the concern of the British firms. Companies are not charitable organisation. They have their survival to think of. If we do not want to lose our jobs, we have to work hand in hand with the companies and constantly upgrade ourselves. We should also learn to act more than we talk.
Christina Spybey, London, United Kingdom
I work in the I.T. sector as a programmer and I have recently have been forced to find another job due to it being outsourced to India. Thankfully I now work for a much smaller company where this is much less likely to happen. I think the problem with outsourcing is that in time, as British companies become more reliant on Indian workers, they will increase the cost of their services. Maybe in years to come we will see a reversal of the situation. Time will tell.
Philip Thompson, UK
| Nothing all that new happening here, folks! |
India imports more products from the world than it exports. The only way to make up this deficit is to export services. And by the way, no one in India complains that we buy so many foreign products - that instead we should be buying Indian products to help employment in India. People all over the world realise that this is how world capitalism works. If you don't like it why have you been drinking imported French wine and Swiss watches for decades? When American computers came in to India many people lost their jobs. That is the nature of progress since printing was invented. Nothing all that new happening here, folks! As for the poor quality from some of the second rate Indian call centres - they won't survive. Only the good ones will.
Sid, India I have spoken to several of these outsourced call centres and on the balance of it find the staff to be extremely polite and efficient. However, I think there is still something to be said for local knowledge. One of the last calls I made was to British Rail who asked what station I was travelling from, when I replied Leicester Square, they asked if that was in Leicester? I think that companies need to be cautious before outsourcing business to Asia in terms of the negative effect that it can have on customer's perception of their services. Also, would it not be a better idea to try and encourage more young British people to see customer service as a viable career route and therefore keep these jobs in our country.
Louise , England
Yes, India is cost effective, People work for less. The reason is that they don't have to maintain their BMWs, They don't drive gas guzzling SUVs, They don't live in houses worth 100s of thousands of dollars. They don't go on exotic holidays. What's the problem if they sell their skills for just a decent life? Newton said "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction". Indian wealth was flowing out of the country for more then 400 years, the opposite flow is inevitable.
Vineet, USA/ India
This type of work allocation has been going on for many years right back to the loss of our cotton mills, you will always find cheaper workforce abroad. We here in the UK require products and services at a low cost and we expect the supplier to provide that so it's no good complaining when they do.
Eric Brown, United Kingdom
As a Korean living in Northeast Asia I witness more and more of Korean jobs being transferred to mainland China as more enterprises move their factories for cheap labour and less tax. I believe it's up to the government to provide a friendly environment for firms so that they will find it more profitable to stay in the home country. Let's not blame India for it's cheap and efficient labour. Instead we should vote for the government that will be able to turn around the education for the better.
Dong-Min Chung, Korea
If the globalisation of finance-related jobs is so inevitable, acceptable and financially compelling, why are we the taxpayers still using our local workforce - and thereby paying over the odds - for government administration, in particular the clearly "off shoreable" administration undertaken by the Inland Revenue?
Clive, England
In the UK call centre jobs are badly paid and low status. I have heard that in India the opposite is true, and they are highly sought after. Asian workers are just as entitled to jobs as the rest of us. If my (IT) job got relocated to India, say, I would be out of a job, but that would be the true if it was relocated if it went to Australia, London, or anywhere else I didn't want to move to. If a company goes bust then no-one has a job.
Stephanie Clarke, Cambridge, UK
Outsourcing is fine but it should not be secret. Customers should have the option to protest by moving to some other company.
Diba, India
| It is about market economies |
It is about time that the government, industry and unions came to realise that there is no such thing as corporate responsibility. It is about market economies. As such, they should understand that the UK cannot fight the battle against cheaper labour, but should address the job market by looking for what the UK is good at, can offer in the future, and will not be undermined immediately in a similar manner.
Pauli Markkanen, USA/ UK Britain is in serious danger of losing its competitiveness completely. We spent most of the 1980s "outsourcing" our manufacturing overseas. Then we did the same with our natural resources and raw materials like coal and steel. That left us with basically just a service-led economy. Now we're busily outsourcing that overseas. What next? We should seriously question the long-term economics of this type of thing, as it is in danger of depleting this nation of any means of earning a living in the future.
David Hazel, UK
The issue that concerns me most with outsourcing is the probable loss of my personal information. When banks send your personal financial information to say India, what laws protect you from a possible identity theft? Already here in the States a medical firm that had sent private medical information to India was threatened by an employee in India that the information would be spread to the public at large through an internet site unless he/she was paid more money. This is only the tip of the iceberg in what is set to become a looming problem.
Mark, California
Aviva are perfectly free to take their jobs overseas. However I'm perfectly free to take my insurance cover to a company that does not use outsourced staff. I will be contacting my broker in the morning to move my insurance policies away from Aviva to a UK only company even if it costs me more. As an IT Professional I am fed up of seeing my future prospects eroded as jobs go overseas. Consumer power is the only way this will be stopped, as companies know it's much cheaper to retain a customer than recruit one.
David, UK
| Businesses are rushing to India without much thought |
Outsourcing work overseas is driven by the need to reduce costs where possible in order to remain competitive. What a lot of comments show however is that this has become something of a fad, and businesses are rushing to India without much thought. It can work but as many of the comments show it might not!
Roger, UK One key factor for any company or growth organisation is to delegate and free up time so that skills of the delegators can be uplifted in turn. By transferring our skills abroad we are enriching are trading partners and creating more room for manoeuvre for ourselves to be creative and inventive. Note that it is the UK who has the initiative here. In the short term UK employees should take this as a sign to uplift skills and go for betterment. In the long term we will all benefit.
Frank, UK
I am totally disgusted that companies such as these are putting profit before people. I have recently had to make a claim with Norwich Union and was not at all impressed by their Asian service and to pretend that this is being done to improve customer service is very cynical indeed.
Ian Stroak, England
| Try making the British worker a more attractive proposition to us business owners! |
It makes complete sense. Why should I fight against UK employment laws which cause me mass headache every time I want to sack a useless employee but treat someone who works well better? Why should I sit endless hours in interviews trying to find an intelligent and enthusiastic employee, when I can find hundreds of them in India? Why should I pay the awful business rates in this country, when I can run my business swiftly and efficiently in India? If all the moaning minnies here want to keep jobs in Britain, then try making the British worker a more attractive proposition to us business owners!
JB, UK I am a senior IT worker. Although my company has never mentioned it, I accept that it's a matter of time before my job is 'outsourced' to India. In January I will probably start a course of night classes with a view to becoming a plumber and/or electrician.
Ian, Scotland
Give me an intelligent, well-educated, polite Indian on the end of a telephone handling my customer queries, over an ignorant, rude, unhelpful and unwilling British call handler any day!
Theresa Law, UK
| As companies I deal with move their operations abroad so I take my business elsewhere |
Companies are free to run their business from where they choose, just as I'm free to spend my money where I choose. As companies I deal with move their operations abroad so I take my business elsewhere. Norwich Union, the Prudential and various mail order companies have already lost my business. Talking to friends and colleagues, it's clear that I'm not alone in this course of action.
Sig, England Why don't we tax those companies that use call centres outside the EU for UK customers? This would soon reduce the amount of call centres being transferred East.
Chris, UK
It is all well to follow profits but to deprive so many millions of jobs at home is repugnant, more so when one thinks of the denial of acquisition of skills to sustain the economy.
Kwaku, Serbia
My small consultancy lost a major client last year because our consultants could be replaced by people at a fraction of the price and with an even smaller fraction of the skills. New clients are very hard to come by these days for the exact same reason. But it's not all bad news - our company will pay around �25k less to the treasury because of it! There was a story the other day that Dell were re-establishing a US call centre because their corporate customers got fed up with speaking to Indians. Perhaps it will all come full circle in the end?
Peter H, UK
| The service economy in India is staffed by well educated people who in many cases speak better English than we do |
Some of the comments here display an incredible lack of understanding when it comes to economics. Managers are not outsourcing call centres to line their own pockets, they do it to increase profitability. This is passed on to the shareholders - which is anybody with pensions or savings linked to share prices. Overall this is good for the UK economy, maybe not in the short term for those who lose their jobs but we cannot have a system that stifles free enterprise.
To those of you complaining about speaking to foreigners would do well to realise that you probably have been for years and didn't even realise. The service economy in India is staffed by well educated people who in many cases speak better English than we do. Your comments show a blinkered view of the world and a worrying lean toward nationalism.
Ben, UK I think someone needs to create a website were we can register companies that outsource work over seas. Then we, the consumer, can use our purchasing power to force a change in attitude. Governments can't help - if you want to stop the flow of jobs, then it's down to us the consumer. Vote with your feet!
George, UK
The only way to stop this is to boycott the companies who do this. If enough people do that then they might take notice. I have already told my bank that if they (as reported in the press) do the same I will go to another bank.
Duncan Tibbett, England
I work for a company that is currently looking to outsource the department I work for to India, in the name of efficiency. I do not disagree with this, but from what is being done here it seems to be more about winning a reputation, rather than providing real benefit for the company. I am worried that many companies will outsource just because an expensive consultancy recommends this as the management flavour of the moment, rather than for sound and real commercial benefit.
Colin, UK
Having just spent 40 mins and 6 phone calls dealing with 'Daves' and 'Sheilas' and 'Robs' in India, I decided I could no longer carry on the farce and asked for a call back from the manager. I got it... from a girl in the UK who fixed my system fault in 3 minutes. The Indian staff were certainly not efficient and I could no more understand them than they could me. Its scandalous. If I was not calling an outsourced service but rather I was a customer I would have ended my association there and then. It is worth bearing in mind that a very high percentage of UK call centre staff are graduates too... the efficient and educated arguments just don't wash.
Simon, UK
UK companies move jobs abroad and in the long run there will be less jobs in the UK. This means that people in the UK will find it harder to afford 'cheaper' imported goods. Meanwhile, workers in India become more wealthy, prices go up and wages go up until eventually it will become more expensive than the UK so they will outsource jobs back to the UK, no?
Einstein, UK
| In the long run we are de-skilling our workforce |
This is just the beginning. In addition to call centres relocating to India, IT positions are relocating too. It doesn't take a genius to work out that in the long run we are de-skilling our workforce. I am no fortune teller, but I predict that in a few years, when Britain no longer has individuals with these skills, the cost will increase and Britain will have no option but to foot the bill!! Result - Britain is heading back to 3rd world status and India will be one of the world leaders.
Gill, England I called NU with a claim last week following a burst pipe - to say I was already frustrated given the state of our house would be an understatement but was nothing compared to the utter frustration I felt having dealt with a very pleasant chap in India with a time delay on the line. Whilst you could not fault his helpful manner the fact remains he had no concept of our situation which he interpreted as a 'puddle of water' when I described the deluge of water that had brought down our kitchen ceiling! His helpful advice concerning our ruined carpet was to put it 'outside to dry'- we live in Glasgow not Goa! This is not the customer service you expect from a large UK company. Needless to say we shall be changing insurers!
Ros, UK
I think these companies should move their businesses along with their call centres to Asia as well. If these companies have any self respect for themselves, they shouldn't be looking for the custom of tens of thousands of UK employees they plan to lay off.
Tony, UK
| There's an increasing tendency in the US to take action against companies that are viewed as "unpatriotic" |
Isn't it about time we stopped dealing with companies that refuse to support UK jobs? There's an increasing tendency in the US to take action against companies that are viewed as "unpatriotic" and we should also stand up and be counted. These businesses will soon find there's no point in cutting costs when the net result is a drop in business.
Gary Jackson, UK I expect that Indian graduates will find call centre work as soul destroying as their British counterparts. As soon as they possibly can, they will want to take on the higher tech roles, not just the front end roles. We need to worry about the continuation of this process over decades and its global implications, not just the immediate problem. What we are seeing is capitalism working in a totally uneven playing field and it will carry on until the playing field is evened out. That is going to be a long and painful process and the world simply isn't going to be able to support it's entire population at the standard of living we would like to continue to enjoy. And no, I haven't got a clue what the answer is - just that it seems to be unstoppable and a depressing future for the planet.
Helen, UK
I have been getting late night phone calls from MBNA Europe about a credit card. These calls originate in Calcutta and the callers are virtually incomprehensible. When I ring up afterwards to try and check if these people are who they say they are the lines are always busy. It destroys all confidence in the organisation and in security. it's a bad business move and I cant understand why the companies do it.
B Green, UK
| The quality of work done in the UK is very poor, |
Yes they should move to India - no questions asked! The quality of work done in the UK is very poor, as we are poorly educated, besides we are not as determined to succeed as they are in other countries. I think the number of jobs going to India are so small there's no point kicking up idle fuss like these narrow minded unions. This saves money for the economy as most of the cost saving comes back to the UK. So, no matter what anyone says or does, our MP's realise that there's no need to block this in anyway. I would even be happy for my job to move if I wasn't performing well. For instance, software programmers in the UK only know one or two coding languages towards their middle ages, whereas an Indian coder well be proficient with several languages. When it suits us (e.g. Indian defence firms securing many British jobs by signing up to $billion deals with BAE ) we don't complain. This makes us hypocrites.
John Lee Baker, UK I believe that it is a shame that companies are moving their firms to third-world countries. Not only are people losing their jobs here, but it also includes exploitation of poor people. In those countries, social laws are barely existing and the firms are destroying the environment because there is no authority controlling them. Big companies are making abuse of the bad developing situation of such countries and they are destroying the British economy. The small economic advantage for some few rich capitalists does not outweigh the ethic values.
Sander & Dennis, Belgium
This is shameless exploitation of third world labour. This is little more than slave labour and the sad thing is these people think they are doing well. They may be graduates but English is not their first languages and in an industry that revolves around clear communication this is not a very clever long term move if you want to retain long-term first world business.
James PP, England
| I hope that firms eventually see sense and see that customer satisfaction is key |
I am a customer of Norwich Union, and after recently crashing my car had to deal with the call centre at India. I found them very polite and efficient. However when asking complicated questions I found it increasingly frustrated and found I could ring the UK and have the same question answered straight away. I hope that firms eventually see sense and see that customer satisfaction is key. Companies will lose customers as they do not want to speak to Indian call centres.
Lisa, UK The move of jobs to India is not to be expected, nor should it be allowed. Companies must be told that we do not accept the move of our jobs to lower cost bases like India, if you do not agree, move your business elsewhere. Britain sat back and watched the manufacturing industry move offshore and people moved into the service economy, if the service industry moves offshore where do we go – India?
Keith Bell, UK
I am an employer who already outsources some (not all) of our required tasks to India, Sri Lanka, the US and Zimbabwe. It would be simply impossible to compete and be financially stable if we did not have the ability to outsource like this. It is the responsibility of a company to run as cost effectively as possible. The executives are responsible to shareholders and creditors. If by cutting costs a company can reduce its debts and thereby secure the careers of the remaining workforce, then the (admittedly unfortunate) few who lose their jobs should understand that this is something that has always happened and will continue to happen. Ultimately, any company who is not competitive will die. Then how many jobs would Norwich Union shed??
Charlie Wright, UK
What a breathtaking display of economic illiteracy and downright racism. Why shouldn't people in India have a crack at earning a decent living if they can do it more effectively than can be done in the UK? OK, so British people are going to have to be smarter about how they train themselves and market themselves to future employers. Are all those people against really saying we're not good enough to compete on the world market? Or have we all become decadent over the years and too lazy to work for a living? Globalisation and free trade work; it's resisting them that's really painful.
Henry, United Kingdom
I think that the market to get jobs are tough enough as it is. And to take even more job opportunities away, by moving them to Asia, creates less available opportunities for the jobless, and hence drives up the amount paid on the dole. I think that we need to ensure our country is stable before we try to stabilise another.
Tate Husband, United Kingdom As a customer of Norwich Union for over 10 years I am saddened to hear this news. Away from the issue of employment and greed, is the fact that when you ring a company you need the other person to understand you. At present I cannot honestly say that is happening, and the standard of English is much lower than companies like NU/AVIVA like to pretend. I for one will move my insurance now... In addition I live in Norwich and know the dire consequences this will have on the whole of the city. If people are made redundant then as the largest employer in the region house prices will suffer. Amazing how many people suffer all because a fat cat wants some more cream. Good timing for those who work at NU too...
MB, UK
This is just the start of it. With the advent of high speed communications even more jobs will go to areas of the world were wages are a fraction of here. It should be made clear to these big companies that the result of this planned strategy is that they will loose business, by customers taking the business to a UK based company, or the government should tax them for the right to do this. This could go to funding the low wages in the country being used or to compensate the British people being made redundant.
Brian Brown, UK
| The problem is that us Brits expect that we should be getting paid more than anyone else for basic jobs that anyone can do |
I thought the UK was a pioneer of free trade? If India can provide a workforce as good or better than the UK can offer then they are quite right to gain the business. The problem is that us Brits expect that we should be getting paid more than anyone else for basic jobs that anyone can do. I've worked in a UK call centre and the standard of education amongst most of the staff is quite low. In India, all call centre operators are graduates and they can do the job of taking and handling calls much better and without the attitude you get when calling somewhere in the UK. It is inevitable that cheaper and better quality workforce will get the business, and good luck to the Indians.
Asif, London, UK My partner works for Lloyds TSB Newcastle Call Centre and has just been told his job will no longer exist come next year as the centre is moving its operations to India. I can sympathise with all employees and their partners affected by this decision. Like Lloyds TSB, Norwich Union are just looking for ways to cut costs. I have an ISA with Norwich Union, and am concerned that if I ring with a query I will speak to someone who has little knowledge of the English language and who will not be able to understand my accent or query. Keep the jobs here I say.
Sarah Carlton, UK
I think it is absolutely disgusting that all these jobs are being moved to Asia. I find it very frustrating when called by one of the call centres as the line is usually bad and I can't understand them clearly. I would not voluntarily use any company who used these centres. Also, if all these financial institutions take the jobs away from the UK who do they think is going to have the money to use their services?
Terry Harris, UK
| The UK has been complacent over the years, India is a fresh breath of intense competition |
Job migration to India will force the government to give a hard look at the astronomical cost base of UK and employ measures to curb ever increasing costs. The disease is costly, inefficient economic conditions, job migration is just a side-effect. India scores in this area because of a highly well-educated work base and cut throat competition which drives high productivity. The UK has been complacent over the years, India is a fresh breath of intense competition.
Sorabh, London My employer - a bank of which I am also a customer - has started moving jobs to India. I have had experience of poor service from an Indian call centre. So as far as I'm concerned, my job is under threat of being moved to someone who won't perform it as well as I do! Consequently, I'm going to close every single account I have with my employer and re-open with a bank or building society which doesn't offshore its jobs. I hope everyone in every bank, insurance company, etc, does likewise.
Anon, UK
Companies have to be honest about the reasons for overseas outsourcing, I cringe every time I hear the argument that there are more skilled and educated staff available overseas. The real argument is that business can buy the skills cheaper in the 2nd world countries. The fashion of outsourcing call centres will certainly extend to other business areas as soon as the technologies allow, when this happens the service industry in the UK will take a massive hit.
Tony Howell, UK
I think this is yet another disgusting decision made by senior managers of large corporate firms who have no respect for their staff and for British industry in general. These decisions are made so that these managers can line their own pockets with the extra profits. If moving large amounts of British jobs to India continues to be allowed to happen, then more and more British companies will follow suit and unemployment figures will continue to grow. The government needs to step in now.
Mark, UK
| Companies have responsibilities to their employees and their communities as well as share-holders |
What about the knock-on effects in this country? It's fine to say that it's better for the UK economy in the long term but what about those individuals and their families who will lose out now? Companies have responsibilities to their employees and their communities as well as share-holders.
Bharat Patel, UK The UK is founded on a service-based economy. Let's be under no illusions - exporting these jobs is all about increasing the salaries of a small handful of fat-cat directors. And we are destroying the very foundations of this economy just for that? The UK can look forward to rising unemployment, low GDP and a host of social problems unless legislation puts a stop to this destructive tide.
Stuart Coombe, UK
For years and years the UK has benefited from products manufactured overseas and never troubled itself with the appalling conditions that workers in developing countries have to put up with. Now some relatively decent jobs are going to developing countries we are whinging. Provided the work is conducted in a good working environment; good luck to them. Viva the Commonwealth.
Brian T, UK
| I expect many more similar announcements in the years ahead |
As a shareholder in Aviva I totally support this decision. It is just basic economics-the UK's comparative advantage in these sorts of jobs has disappeared in recent years as global communications have become faster and more reliable and educational attainment in 'third world' countries has improved. It underlines how important it is for the UK workforce to 'move up the food chain' and concentrate on either higher value added work or to provide services which are constrained by geography (such as service industries). Jobs which can be done anywhere (such as those being moved by Aviva) will increasingly be carried out where the cost can be minimised. I expect many more similar announcements in the years ahead.
David W, UK Will the savings be passed on to the customers in the UK? I doubt it. Will the UK managers be replaced with Indian ones with the corresponding savings in Salary and Pensions? I doubt it. Will I ever be using Norwich Union again? I doubt it.
Jeremy, UK
I was about to take out a life insurance policy with NU but I will cancel this as I disagree with their Company policy
Nigel Greengrass, UK
The simple way to stop all this call centre exporting is to deal with companies that maintain UK staff. I have the phone number of my bank branch, I can ring up and ask for someone by name and they will know who I am. I don't have to pay for this service; I just chose the right bank.
Many years ago the Thatcher government destroyed the manufacturing base of this country, declaring "the service industry" to be the future. Now that is being placed overseas what IS the future of this country?
David Roberts, UK
| Call centres are a red herring really as they will all decline over time anyway as more people use the internet |
Should we allow the Indian economy to develop? Is essentially the same question. Like manufacturing - migration of services to lower cost economies is inevitable. If blocked - then we only threaten the growth of our own economy. What would stop an overseas competitor with a lower cost base coming in and moving in on Norwich Unions customers otherwise? Call centres are a red herring really as they will all decline over time anyway as more people use the internet.
Adrian Harley, UK If the senior managers and directors of these companies are really serious about saving money, then they will start hiring senior Indian managers and directors at a fraction of the overblown wages pensions they themselves earn. But somehow I think they believe that they are so special that this could never happen.
Mike, Middlesbrough, UK
It has got to stop or there will be nobody left working in the UK. Would India allow such a thing? No, I think not! If a firm advertised British staff it would attract more business; greedy fat-cats strike again!
Colin Holroyd, UK
My employer is currently looking at moving a 'significant' number of jobs from the UK to Mumbai, essentially to drive down costs. The UK public essentially gets the costs base it demands. If there are ever more demands for cheaper product (be that a tangible product or something more ephemeral, like 'service') this will be reflected in the delivery of these services. India provides an efficient but more importantly cheap work force that is dedicated and hardworking. But we do need to be more selfish in this country. We do not have a jobs surplus, so we should not be exporting jobs. P
Piloti, England
I contacted an internet suppliers helpdesk and was put through to India. The helpdesk person tried his best to be helpful but had a very heavy accent and a limited understanding of quite a few English words (I think my own regional accent was also a problem). I tried e-mailing instead but was told I could only approach them verbally. The end result is that I still cannot use the service weeks later and I am going to cancel my longstanding account with them.
Ella, Gloucestershire, UK
| Surely no one can be surprised. With all the regulation and associated costs placed on business's over the last 6 years, would you run a business here? |
Surely no one can be surprised. With all the regulation and associated costs placed on business's over the last 6 years, would you run a business here? Plus a new raft of regulation as to who you can employ and on what terms, Britain is not a place to do business. Until the governments stop creating the problems, the companies will move away from them! Miss Hewitt will no doubt be pleased, as it is (according to her) the Third World countries who need the work. Well now that Britain is that status - what are you going to do!
Maurice, England The West created capitalism and free markets. This is only an extension of that and someone that we are going to have to get used to in our profit driven society.
Nicholas, UK
It seems immoral for a company to profit from some in a country at the expense of others in that same country. I am not comfortable dealing with a company that boosts its profits at the expense of my fellow Britons. We should name and shame these companies and take our business to those companies who spend their profifits and provide jobs in Britain not Asia.
Msmo, London
In a word No! I'm not against cutting costs but this is simply too much.
My philosophy now is that whenever I call a call centre I ask what country I've been pushed through to - If it's not the UK, then I simply do not give the company my business.
Lets start protecting our UK jobs!
Alan Smith, UK
As the author of 'Outsourcing to India: The Offshore Advantage' it will come as no surprise to learn that I support Aviva in this move. If Aviva can source more efficiently overseas then it is healthier for the UK macro economy - we probably all have Aviva shares in our pension fund. It is worth remembering that the UK call centre industry is also growing, not declining - just look at the performance of companies such as Vertex or LBM.
Mark Kobayashi-Hillary, London, UK
No - we need to compete, but on an equal basis. Trying to compete with countries in Asia where living standards, quality of life, even life expectancy are lower is just not fair. The government must act to protect our interests - we allow jobs and money to leave the country at the risk of our own future prosperity, and that is dangerous. We should and must allow full competition within countries with the same standards, i.e. the EU/US/Australia, but in the 2nd and 3rd world? No way.
David, UK
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