British workers' unions have condemned banking group HSBC over its plans to cut 4,000 customer service jobs in the UK and move them to Asia. The work will be transferred to China, India and Malaysia and would be a welcome boost to their economies.
Workers' union in Britian, though, accused the bank of putting "profits before people", but HSBC chief executive Bill Dalton said the job cuts were "essential" for the bank's continued success.
HSBC's decision reflects a growing trend among UK firms to move customer support and call centre jobs to Asia to cut costs.
British Telecom last month drew protests over its plans to switch its directory enquiries service in India, as did insurer Prudential last year.
What to you think about the job moves? Do you agree with the economic argument or do you see them as putting profits before people?
This debate is now closed. Read a selection of your comments below.
The comments published reflect the balance of views received:
 | SUGGEST A DEBATE This topic was suggested by Msmo, UK  Should we continue to support companies that are relocating services to the east and shedding British jobs?  |
No-one is owed a living. HSBC is a business. It is good business to operate as cost efficient as possible. The cost of living in Britain is high. Wages are high. The minimum wage in Britain is no doubt a very healthy wage in India, and also the additional costs and restrictions of operating a business premises are no doubt cheaper there too. This country is pricing business out.
Mark H, UK
Firstly, countries like the UK and Australia don't stand a chance in the coming years against Asian tigers like China, India and the ASEAN countries. On top of that workers are cribbing about a small percentage of jobs being migrated. It is a well known fact that workers in Indian call centres are more technically qualified than their British counterparts, alongside the low wages factor. In fact outsourcing is the major reason USA is staying competitive and the economy is on an upswing. If the UK boycotts Asian companies and British companies which have offices in Asia, then wait and watch the UK go down the drain while its economy sinks. Moreover, such a boycott will be reciprocated with a boycott of British goods and companies by the 3 billion strong populations of China, India and South East Asia.
Rohit, USA
I agree it hurts to lose a job, but it would hurt beyond imagination if companies in the UK don't keep up with globalisation. Why can't British people accept the reality that they no longer lead the world? Only way is to compete but by boycotting HSBC and likes they will seriously jeopardise their chances of fighting out global competition.
Romil Jain, India
No-one owes us a living and we must take responsibility for what is happening. If we don't want our jobs to be exported, we have to buy British, and that goes for food, cars and all our major purchases. If we work in industries under threat we have to moderate our wage demands and improve our quality and productivity. Finally, we must vote only for politicians prepared to put the best interests of the British people ahead of all other considerations.
Graham Shelton, England
| No doubt it's only a matter of time before these companies move on to find cheaper labour again |
Most of the people in Britain were also exploited by the 'colonialists' - i.e. the ruling classes. No doubt it's only a matter of time before these companies move on to find cheaper labour again. This isn't just part of being in a global economy, as some would claim, it's about the rich and powerful getting richer and more powerful. We are just fodder, and they use and abuse us all, as they always have, and always will, if they continue to get their way.
John, UK If you are considering moving your account from HSBC perhaps you will also take a look at your clothes aND get rid of your Nike, Levis etc. One day India will be a high cost location and then jobs will continue to flow to a cheaper location.
Chengappa, Bangalore, India
A lot of the 'arguments' put across here are little more than xenophobia. Third World countries such as India are told to stop being charity cases and do something for their own good. Well they have: there's a huge middle class of English speaking graduates who in many cases work harder and longer than similar people here. People here in call centres barely have GCSEs! We should be skilling up in our economy and moving up the value chain - it's capitalism at its best!
Suki Singh
The problem is with the attitude the West has towards Asia. The West doesn't mind getting billions of dollars by selling Hawks, coke, pepsi, cars to countries like India, but when we want to make money by selling our skills they hate it. If India shuts down these companies and their contracts not hundreds but thousands will lose jobs in the West. Basically it's a win-win situation right now for the west-east. anything to alter this balance by force will be catastrophic.
Vishwajit Singh, USA/India
Shame on these British based companies outsourcing British Jobs to India and other parts of Asia. It's all about profiteering. Is 3.6 billion not enough profit for 6 months? Call centres were the lifeblood of employment black spots in the UK and these British jobs should be kept in Britain. Call centres are just the start people, the problem is not going to go away and the government needs to do something. People need to show a little patriotism. We need some sort of logo like "Based in the UK" etc. These companies don't get care about these Indian communities they are relocating to anyway, it's all about saving a few pounds!
Adam Tomaszko, Britain/USA
| This is simple capitalism at work |
Why has this discussion moved into an 'us versus them' commentary? This is simple capitalism at work. We make money for a company, we get money. If someone can make more money for that company, they'll get the money. Simple as that!
Anon, UK What goes around, comes around. I remember my history growing up in India. At the time of the industrial revolution, India and others like us lost millions of jobs to the west because of the massive industrial complexes of the west. Now, that these industrial complexes have moved to the east, there are layoffs and fear of job losses in the west. History has an uncanny way of repeating itself.
Amit, India
Growing up in the UK in the 70s, I still recall the virtual xenophobia expressed by a minority of British people to Japanese Cars. This misplaced patriotism resulted in �millions wasted in subsidising an uneconomic industry producing rubbish cars. We should instead have been focusing on industries where we have a competitive edge. An earlier comment referred to the $billion dollar fighter-aircraft order which secured 2000 BAE jobs. To all those HSBC call centre employees, I say that you really need to get yourself re-trained to work in areas where Britain has competitive strength.
Kailesh, UK
Countries like India and China have been exporting quality professionals in the field of medicine, space and computer science for years now. So why all the questioning now when jobs are being moved in the other direction? HSBC is obviously not exporting jobs on the sole reason to feed India, China and Malaysia's economies. This move, in turn, can cut costs back in Britain that will indirectly affect the people of Britain in a positive manner. The more profit HSBC can make by sending jobs overseas, the more there is cut in costs back in Britain, hence decreasing inflation to pump the economy.
Of course the downside is that there will be people out of jobs and a sour taste in the mouths of locals, but this has also been happening to India and China for years where our top notch professionals are taken to work overseas when they could be fuelling their own country's economies. It's the game of business - some people win, and some lose.
Caesar, USA
Well, it's sad for our fellow workers in the UK but this was to happen. With savage capitalism, globalisation, free market; what do you expect? If the workers do not unite against this, this will happen everywhere - today the UK, tomorrow India or China. There will always be someone rich and someone poor if this system continues.
PSG, India
It's a shame on US and UK to call themselves as Rich Nations when they can't provide jobs for their own country men.
Brugge, India
It's our own fault. We have the means to change things and we get the society we create.
So stop moaning and use your power to change things. I shall be moving my account from HSBC this weekend.
Stuart, UK
As HSBC staff, I am disgusted at the way the we are being treated. The state of the bank in general is a shambles. We have out of touch directors making decisions we, at grass roots levels, know to be rubbish. This is another money saver, from the bank that made 10 billion profit last year. I can see the bank's image falling and customers leaving.
HSBC EU: "a unrewarded workforce"
HSBC Staff, England
| Absolutely ridiculous, what is this country coming too? |
Absolutely ridiculous, what is this country coming too? Surely the interests of our people's livelihoods in this country should be priority over those in Asia. I have been out of work for nearly 18 months after working for a city bank as a voice engineer and this sort of news does not cheer me up. When is it going to stop? The government need to step in and take control before matters seriously get out of hand.
John Phillips, UK Nobody complained when a British company got a billion pound order to export aircrafts to India and thereby saving hundreds of UK jobs. All those people considering boycott of HSBC and other companies that outsourced some work to India should also consider to boycott products of all multinational companies that make huge profits by selling their products in India and other Asian countries. It is time to accept and adjust to new situation than to ignore reality of world economics.
Brij Bharati, UK/India
If UK wants to be a part of global economy, it has to accept both the rewards and pitfalls of a global village. If you do not want to ride the pitfalls, then you do not get the rewards like having access to third world fast growing markets like India, China, etc. Be reasonable and be a good sport and please stop whining, and start competing
Karthik, USA
This is just an extension of what has been going on for the last forty years. First manufacturing (cameras, Hi-Fi, textiles etc) collapsed and now service industry jobs. People want cheap services and cheap goods. It is all well and good saying stop the companies moving the jobs but are you prepared to pay the true going rate for the services.
Ian, UK
The HSBC is a little more complex then the typical out sourcing story. The HSBC bank was founded by the British in Hong Kong which is now part of China. So are these jobs returning home? In general, I see the need for a county like India to grow and develop but there are over 1 billion people in India. Even if there were 5 million Call Centre or IT jobs created India that is a tiny fraction of the population. India needs to find a real solution to supporting its population.
Dave Hall, UK
It cannot be right that a person in the UK is paid that much more than a person in Asia, that it would be cheaper to relocate a call centre to the other side of the world to maximise profit!? If it is, then there is something seriously wrong with the whole system of free trade. We must ask ourselves why Asians are paid so little.
Steve, Maidstone in Kent, UK
Let's not just talk about it, let's do something about it. I and other HSBC, Midland Bank, and First Direct account holders should close our accounts and bank with another financial institution that cares about it's communities. Let's hit them in the pocket where it hurts.
Alberto, England
There must be some sort of balance like allowing only 50% of total force to be outsourced, so companies can contribute to local economy and be competitive also.
P Singh, New Zealand
I hope this doesn't come as a surprise to all those people who pushed the minimum wage and other cost raising measures onto British companies. What they are now seeing is a direct result of their actions. If workers here are too expensive companies will move jobs to lower cost economies. In a global economy, why wouldn't they? If the UK wants these jobs it has to compete for them against the whole world now. This trend will continue as long as there are cheaper places to get things done.
John R Smith, UK
| Time to shape up and re-train, Britain |
Good luck to India - the West have kept wages low and exploited your workers for decades and I think it's high time that we gave something back to you. People in the UK don't know the meaning of the word 'poverty'.
Time to shape up and re-train, Britain.
Marcus West, UK I see no reason why jobs should not be moved to Asia provided the rate of pay is the same. A company pays for the value of the job not the nationality of the person doing it. Therefore there should be no difference in remuneration.
McKane, UK
People, wake up, a company needs to be profitable now, you talking about having strikes and all that. Before that lower your job wages, and get some skills, to compare with India. And then we shall see
Nish, UK/France/India
Isn't it about time we started outsourcing senior management and accountant positions as well? After all, if someone from India or China is as good at answering the phone/technical inquiries as a UK/US worker, then they must have people capable of senior management... and I'll bet they'll be a damn sight cheaper too.
Boris, UK
There's one description for it: profiteering.
Andy, UK.
Quite simply, if I am aware that a British company, whose services I would use, has relocated to a foreign country, then I will stop using that firm. We don't see any Chief Executive's jobs being outsourced abroad, do we?
Andrew, England
Start turning backs on companies that outsource work to India and China? India and China have world's 1/3 population between them. If they start doing the same to foreign companies and products, developed European countries economies will collapse and will result in more job losses. Think before you say people.
T. Patel, USA
If you want to help British workers stop organisations who think British workers and their families are expendable. If HSCB want to throw 4000 our fellow workers on the scrap heap, how about we loose them 40,000 customers?
Tedd Jones, England
Let the people, who would like to boycott the companies shifting jobs to Asia, also boycott the companies who sell products in Asia and make profits. You just can not have your cake and eat it too.
Megh Raj Shah, Italy
This is just another step towards the colonisation of UK by the Asian continent. The shoe is now on the other foot but the UK is being blinded by profit margins to see it.
Tola, UK
| Now that developing countries have understood the game, you people would like to change the rules! |
I really don't know what the fuss is about. As far as I know it was the developed countries that used to push the economically weaker countries to open up their markets. And now that developing countries have understood the game, you people would like to change the rules! Come on, you are better than that.
Krishna, India How are people who lose their jobs due to outsourcing supposed to live, pay their mortgages?etc If this continues, Britain will become the new 'third world.'
Irene, Scotland
Absolutely, they should move. Customer service here is abysmal. I've had personal experience with customer services at HSBC in Asia and in England. It took a phone call to Asia to finally sort out a problem with my account here! It is time we faced up to our high wages, poor productivity and the entitlement culture of our work force. If we cannot face up to these issues, the rest of our society will join the transport system in providing a so-called third world service.
Karen, UK
What nobody seems to have asked is this: why can the Indians charge such low rates for the same work? One reason is, they don't have to pay for an established infrastructure, such as clean water and sewerage. The middle classes in India are benefiting at the expense of their poor people who would be better served if the universities turned out sanitation engineers rather than software engineers!
Ian, UK
| This is part of living in a global economy |
Look at the big picture. This is part of living in a global economy - you get your products and services from the cheapest sources. If you don't want service jobs going out, then you don't export or import anything, you just put up a wall around you, and live in isolation.
MG, USA UK manufacturing is dying on its feet, the IT and other high tech industries have been badly hit by outsourcing and the Fast Track Visa scheme. Now we are selling our service jobs by the thousand. What are we going to have left? And all this is with the blessing of the British government. At the Labour Conference, John Prescott said that outsourcing high tech jobs to India was a good thing, in order to "give India a chance". What about giving your own country a chance, Mr Prescott?
George, UK
Of course it's profits before people. I work for Prudential who are doing similar things by transferring jobs to India simply because it saves them money per annum. Never mind the fact that thousands now become unemployed and as the majority live in Reading, this means that they won't be able to afford to live here anymore.
Anonymous, UK
You can't moan about HSBC moving jobs into China - it is after all the new name for 'The Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation', so it is only moving jobs back to its roots - something everyone says is a good thing when it works the other way round. So are we being called hypocrites?
Matthew, England
I believe it is time for the unions to stand up and be counted. The service industry will be decimated within ten years if we allow the large corporations to exploit the cheap labour markets for ever increasing profits. I for one will never buy an HSBC product again and am closing my current account as we speak
Trevor, UK
I am a customer of HSBC and I have used their telephone banking service since it was launched as I usually find it very convenient. At the weekend I called to pay my House of Fraser storecard bill and was serviced by a rep in India. The person I spoke to had no idea what a storecard was or indeed who House of Fraser were - arguably an employee in the UK would have known what I was talking about. In the end I gave up and put a cheque in the post.
Jeremy, UK
| This kind of outsourcing is completely legal |
The export of jobs is not anti-patriotic for these firms, but a REAL and imminent necessity. This kind of outsourcing is completely legal and forms the basis of sound functioning of WTO/GATT. If these countries are to be targeted as the biggest market for US/UK goods, I guess one should expect something like this while returning the favour.
SM, US/India It's about time the government stepped in and put a stop to this. The effect on the economy could be horrendous, in terms of funding the benefit claims of the laid-off. These large companies are driven solely by money and greed (although I may just be bitter as my job is under threat due to "outsourcing").
Steve, London
As a small software company we've considered the very same move. We can locate somewhere where housing costs aren't ridiculous, tax is low and the sun shines all year round. I don't see that Britain is going to be able to compete.
Mart, UK
HSBC is a global bank from Asia - Hong Kong and Shanghai. Of course they should move work to where it can be done best. Yes, it's tough on the UK workers, but it is good news for many workers in the rest of the world, who are seeing their living standards rise.
Richard, Indonesia
Its a disgrace, the HSBC makes billions in profit every year, every time someone loses their job, everyone else ends up paying more tax to subsidise the unemployed. The bank should be forced to pay the unemployment pay instead of the DSS, they would soon reconsider their position then.
Lester Stenner, UK
This is the most obvious example of fat cats wanting to increase profits. The old workforce is to be ditched, while the main feature of the new force is they are willing to work for a pittance. HSBC customers should vote with their feet and move their accounts elsewhere.
Roger, UK
Considering how much the British have benefited from colonial exploitation in countries like India, it is only right that anything we can do to help those economies should be welcomed.
Ahmed, UK
| I think customers should vote with their feet |
Being Asian myself, but born here in England, I must admit I feel quite disappointed with these companies. I think customers should vote with their feet and boycott them.
T. Gill, UK Yet more examples of globalisation helping the developing world and also helping the developed world via lower costs. Although hard on those whose need to redeploy their labour, in the big picture trade is always win-win for both economies.
Rob Read, UK
When all of our UK-based jobs have been "exported" to low-waged regions, the UK will be a non-waged region. So who will these call-centres be selling to anyway?
Paul O'Brien, England
I tried to call Lexmark about a printer problem and in three calls, got two from India who could barely understand me and one in New Brunswick, who was a dream. This topic is being covered in several forums I belong to and the general consensus is to no longer patronize companies who outsource.
Katherine Reem, USA
Perhaps if UK based companies were forced to pay the UK minimum wage to staff at their international satellite offices they might think again. At the end of the day, a disaster is looming on both sides of the world. First, UK employees will lose their jobs and fuel recession. Secondly, companies moving to India may find it wasn't the best idea in the world and pull out just as swiftly as they moved in. Bit like colonialism really.
John, England
| Why is the whole of Britain so scared of a few jobs being outsourced to India? |
Why is the whole of Britain so scared of a few jobs being outsourced to India? It will be a nice way of paying back for the atrocities the British inflicted on Indians in the past.
Nalin, India Do these complainers think that British people deserve jobs more than Indian people? We do not, so morally it is no worse to give a job to someone in India than someone in the UK. In fact it is morally better - the effect of the loss of a job in the UK is that someone has to live on benefits instead of a wage, but the effect of a loss of a job in India is that someone has to live on begging. So anyone with humanity will support the move of jobs to India. The sooner UK workers learn to compete in a worldwide free labour market the better.
Sean Sinclair, UK
| isn't it about time that people in this country turned their backs on these companies and stop using the services they provide |
If HSBC and numerous other companies want to move their call centres to Asia, isn't it about time that people in this country turned their backs on these companies and stop using the services they provide. I am sure that they will get cheap labour in Asia but will they get the same amount of business in those countries?
Jim, Scotland Is the current "outsource to India" trend among multinational firms just another management fad or will it help India to be one of the top 10 economies of the world, a decade on?
Amortya, USA (originally India)
It's time for people in Britain and America to start boycotting the companies who are shifting jobs to Asia. It's becoming an international problem and will only get worse. Those companies still expect to sell their products in Britain and the USA, but who do they expect to be able to afford them if they keep shifting the jobs away. I now will NOT purchase goods or services from companies that I find have call centres offshore.
Susan, UK/USA
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