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Last Updated: Tuesday, 19 August, 2003, 16:50 GMT 17:50 UK
Licensing laws: Your views
A long-awaited report published on Tuesday has recommended a much more liberal approach to pub opening hours in Scotland.

It has also proposed that licensed premises should not bar access to people under the age of 18.

But Sheriff Principal Gordon Nicholson QC has called for tougher enforcement measures to be available to deal with licensees who break the law and for an end to "irresponsible promotional activities".

Will Scotland benefit from a more relaxed approach to opening times or do we drink too much as it is? Are our pubs and clubs already sufficiently monitored or do they pose a public nuisance?

The emails below reflect a balance of your comments.


It is going to be a long, hard and ultimately worthwhile struggle to change our drinking culture, for that is what it is about. Brits abroad behave the way they do because it is the way they behave at home, except with cheaper and more plentiful booze.
Jorge, UK

End of closing time means we won't get ripped of by taxi drivers only giving lifts to the highest bidder. More buses will be needed or we will just have to drink till 6am when the trains start.
John, Scotland

It is terrible. I cannot believe it. I am very upset. Bars open Late, Pubs open late. Businesses doing business until late in to the night. But not in England. It is time London woke up and took a look around the rest of the world. We are not living in the 1930s. We should be living in a democratic, capitalist 24-hour country. Sort it out Tony.
Ronnie, UK

People under 18, for the most part, can't handle alcohol. On the other hand, most adults can't handle it either. I think alcohol should be made illegal. If pubs are left open for longer hours, I feel sorry for the people who live nearby and the many sleepless nights ahead.
Brenna , UK

Our continental cousins leave it to the landlords' discretion, for once I agree with them. Freedom of choice is the way forward. As long as the landlord polices their own shop, why not?
Steven Steel, England

Those who think that relaxing the licensing laws will do nothing to improve our currently bad attitude to drink have to appreciate that a change in social habits wiil take time. So, the sooner, the better.
Jonathan Badger, UK

It is time that alcohol consumption faces stricter and by no means more liberal legislation. It should be even stricter than anti-smoking legislation. Many millions of people have alcohol problems or alcohol-related diseases and problems. I'm sure the figures are even higher than for tobacco-related cases but the news usually keep that very, very quiet as the sale of alcohol is a huge industry and alcohol is a socially accepted drug throughout all social classes. However, I would not only penalise the alcohol-consuming public with tighter rather than more liberal laws, but the drinks industry should contribute their share as well. For example, in the form of paying a certain amount to the NHS to take responsibility for the problems and strain their business causes to and puts on the general public.
E Wallace, Scotland

I would like to share with you my experience. I used to drink a very large amount every day. I never had reason to think it was wrong or a problem. I moved to France two years ago. Let me tell you, that was a change, bars open to 4am - I was in heaven. That was short lived, after a few weeks of sustained binge drinking till the early hours - I very quickly became a slow drinker and started to enjoy going out even more. I am now back in London and to tell the truth I can't drink more than four pints in a night.Before France that would be more like eight or 10. I now enjoy going out and eating in the pub and having a few drinks and I think that a very large amount of people would do the same in this country. Good luck to you all in Scotland
Richard Vallely, London.

We do need something done about the drinking laws but this is not the way. Having neds hanging around in the pub drinking and getting on people's nerves is the next invasion. Fake IDs or 18-year-olds buying the drinks for all their younger mates is just what we need. The pub is a place for adults to mix with adults and get away from the 'kids'. What about underage girls being picked up in pubs by men thinking they are older than they are, there�s another can of worms to deal with. If people are naive enough to think that we will become like the Europeans and go to the pub and have a couple of drinks when we feel like it and wander off home they're wrong. There will be more drunks walking around all the time. Drinking heavily is what we do in the UK and it will just get worse. We are the unhealthiest people in Europe and giving younger people more access to alcohol is wrong. Lets spend money on sports facilities and places where younger people can hang out with people their own age and have fun, not the pub.
Alan, Scotland

The licensing laws came into effect to get munitions workers out of the factories back to work during WWI. Since then they have been relaxed bit by bit. I've lived in Germany where the licensing laws are not as draconian. Obviously it has a lot to do with education of our younger generation in regards to excessive drinking, but in Germany you don't very often see a drunk laying on the curb. As alcoholic drinks are available for longer periods of time during the day, binge drinking is not needed. Just like ordering two pints at last orders. There is no need.
Neil, England

Who is going to work all these extra long hours late into the night?
Julie, Scotland

I think more could be done to prevent the sale of alcohol to known alcoholics. Presently if a family member is an alcoholic it is impossible to prevent the lethal substance being sold to an alcoholic on demand.
John Noble, UK

Your commentators so far have made some very good points but don't seem to be addressing the wider issue of pubs and the drinking culture. As an alcoholic in his mid-30s I think I have a case to make. From the age of 16 or 17 I have been part of a laddish "work hard, play hard" drinking culture (as are so many guys...and yes, girls too). This seemed all very well in my late teens and into my 20s. Now I cannot bear to go a single day without a beer. My health is shot and I know I must stop or cut down if I'm not to suffer further ill-health and a premature death. My point is that I think that greater energy should be spent encouranging young people to do something else other than drinking. Everything I did with my peers in my 20s seemed to revolve around beer... after work; have a beer... someone's birthday; have a beer... wedding; beer... funeral; beer... holiday; beer... too much work; beer. I don't know if the European coffee shop culture could work in the UK but I'm sure that there's another way than the one we have. Pubs and drinking hours aren't the problem. The problem is the productive (or less destructive ) use of our youth.
Paul, UK

Frankly I cannot believe how na�ve the executive are if they think these changes will reduce binge drinking. If this goes ahead employers will soon be faced with an increase in absenteeism resulting from people staying in the pub till the small hours while those who live around city centre drinking establishments can look forward to no sleep at all even on weeknights.
Dave Hamilton, Scotland

It's about time we dragged the licensing laws into the new millenium. In South Africa, the bars close when the last person leaves. This means that people take their time drinking when they're out and feel less compelled to binge drink in order to get drunk. People drift in and out of the bars throughout the night, meaning that there is no mass exodus of people at any given time. This means that in the small hours of the morning it is much easier to: get a taxi, buy takeaway food, and also, that contrary to Mr Hamilton's belief there is a lot less noise on the street. This is because people on their way home, are going home because they're tired, not because they've been ejected onto the street when they're still wide awake and having fun. I also believe that off-licence laws should also be relaxed. This would make many people less inclined to go to bars and clubs in the first place, and so again would reduce general rowdiness in the streets. It would also mean, that people who work unsociable hours would not be so penilised for doing so. In summary I warmly welcome these proposals and believe that they will lead to a better life for everyone.
Matthew Kelly, Scotland

Europeans have more relaxed laws and much longer opening hours, but they still discourage heavy drinking (a few times while in Europe I have not been allowed to buy more than three drinks in a row). Europeans themselves do not tend to drink very much, but stay out very late. But they also have long breaks in the middle of the day in which to recover. We don't. So, how are Brits supposed to sustain their already hard-drinking lifestyles, with longer opening hours and no more cheap prices? We'll all be bankrupt and jobless, unless we change our attitudes to drinking altogether.
Janice, Scotland

A large part of the blame must rest with alcohol off-sales. Shops and supermarkets try to play down the negative side of this lucrative trade, but this can only mean more unmonitored drinking. Publicans have a valuable duty to keep order and prevent irresponsible drinking. More should be done to encourage the use of pubs.
Paul Burgess, Wales

I agree in principle with the relaxation of opening hours and the proposed changes in respect of the happy hour culture we seem to find ourselves in. However I would urge caution in respect of allowing under-18s into bars even if they do carry a proof of age card. The fact they may or may not drink alchohol while in these places (other less responsible types over-18 may purchase it for them) is secondary the fact that bars in general are traditionally a place for adults and adult conversation where smoking is a generally accepted pass time for many. Do we a) want younger peole exposed to this environment before they reach adulthood and b) I for one do not want to be sitting in a bar trying to relax with friends when all I can hear is the loud often irritating sound of children. Positive change is always a good thing but allowing children into bars I do not beleive would benefit anyone.
Scott Hardie, Scotland

I think the opening hours should be more European (also to reflect our nice summer!) but I feel that, as many people have said, we need to readdress our whole attitudes to drinking. Drinking to get "drunk" is a very serious social malady resulting in ill health, social disturbance, domestic violence and a poor reputation abroad. Believe me as a student I've seen all the sides to the story. The real question is: "What do we do to change our underlying nihilistic & hedonistic philosophies?"
Bob, UK

Long pub hours work in other countries without problems, there should be no reason why this should cause problems in the UK. To begin with, this will be a novelty for people in the UK, but it will soon pass.
Stewart, Toronto, Canada (formally UK)

A driver is banned from driving for six months as a 'totter' when more than 12 penalty points have collected on their driving licence. Could not pub licences be structured in the same way, with points collected for underage drinking, drug-dealing on the premises, and selling alcohol to the grossly inebriated?
Peter Mellett, England

As chairman of a local club I think the licensing laws in this country are so archaic it is crazy. You need one licence to serve alcohol in the members' bar, another licence to serve alcohol in the concert room if hired out for a private function, another licence if you want to allow children in to the concert room for a family function, another licence to serve beyond 11pm. Surely it would be easier to issue one licence to cover all occasions if that is what the club request and review the licence when appropriate. It would also free the courts who have to hold special sessions to grant bar extensions for all pubs and clubs in the area as everybody who books a private function wants a bar extension. This also needs to be done in a proper structured way and monitored to ensure the down-sides highlighted in other peoples' e-mails do not materialise into reality.
Stephen Goldsmith, England

Living in Amsterdam for a number of years, I've experienced both sides of the coin, the Scottish perspective and the European culture. The main difference I see in the extension of opening hours is the lack of sprawling, drunken hordes tumbling out of bars en masse. Therefore, less violence, less tension and a more civilized culture revolves around going out for a drink. Allied to this, on a Friday evening, when meeting up with friends or colleagues, it is more common to go home, eat, change and then go out (say at 10-ish), rather than leave directly from the office on an empty-stomach and do the rounds of the happy hour bars before slumping in a heap overcome by the effects of binge-drinking. Perhaps, the liberalisation of opening hours and the reduction/restriction of happy(?) hours in Scotland is no bad thing.
Murray De Schot, The Netherlands/ex-Scotland

People in Scotland/UK are already drinking far too much. It's naive to think that gettin grid of closing time will stop people drinking as intensively. Unfortunatly in Britain our whole culture now seems to be based round heavy drinking. This is highlighted by the embarassing behaviour of Brits in Faliraki, and the fact that our city centres are now no-go zones.
Andy, UK

Relaxing the drinking laws should be comended, introducing a proof of age card and enforcing it strictly I support fully. The comment about Faliriki is not just down to the loutish behaviour of British but the owners of the bars enticing people in for cheap drinks and continuing to serve them when they get drunk. Pubs and clubs should put more into refusing people drinks when they feel they have had too much and to ban totally happy hours, it has been discovered in some places by visiting different bars you can go on an all night happy hour. Non-alcoholic drinks should be made cheaper, a half pint of coke should not cost more or the same as a half pint of beer. Even a can of coke should not cost more than 55p. I hope the owners of bars and clubs respect the change in the law and themselves act to change the British drinking culture.
Chris, England

I am a nightclub bouncer and until recently worked in a club in Canterbury which has been granted an extra hour (3 am) to remain open. During this hour only soft drinks are sold. The amount of violence and crime has now dropped in the area as, where we would have had 1500 alcohol induced people on the street at once, they now leave in thier own time and go home quietly. I also have to make another point, we do not accept the proof of age cards and i do not know of any club in the area that does. The reason... they are very, very easy to forge.
Clint, UK

Interesting that the assumption has been made that if you have European licensing laws you will automatically get European drinking culture. I haven't seen any evidence for this other than Brits on holiday, which looking at the Falaraki article for example shows that a large number of Brits will binge drink all hours, rather than act in a "European" way. Also, is there any industry buy-in from the restriction/banning of happy hour and other promotions that encourage binge drinking but increase profits? Businesses will always think of profits first. This change seem like a good start, but if it is not followed through with more change and real influence it will fall flat on its face.
Mike, UK

I go to the pub for many reasons, one of which is to enjoy myself, with my friends, in an environment where I don't have to worry about young children running about making a nuisance of themselves, not to mention young teenagers, who are becoming incrasingly rude, misbehaved and disrespectful! Letting under 18's into pubs will achieve little and in my mind will only result in an increasing number of parents and adults falling out in the pubs! Going to the pub is a privilege not a right - that's what right of admission is all about.
Bruce, Scotland

Comparisons with European countries show that more relaxed opening hours are compatible with more sociable drinking patterns. What takes more time to change is a mindframe that tolerates loutishness and lauds a very British type of machismo based on abusiveness rather than strength of mind.
Matthew Stott, Spain

Introducing a "proof of age" card is a good idea. The card will eliminate the problem with underage drinkers in pubs. The issue is how will the pubs introduce a secure system; should they function in a club manner, where age is checked when entering or by the bar each time you buy a drink?
Chris Njord, England

I think this move is very overdue - I think it is an insult that the state should decide when and when I can't go for a drink. I know these laws were introduced because the upper class thought that the lower classes would always be drunk and not be able to work but surely nowadays with the different lifestyles and working patterns that we have that establishments should be able to open and close when they like. I live in London at the moment and still cannot get over the fact that at 11 o'clock on a Friday night they close the bar and expect me to go home!
John, England (but Scottish!)

We really do need a relaxation of the licensing laws in this country. The mass exodus of millions of drunk people at 11:30 every weekend causes nothing but trouble. These restrictive licencing laws surely have some link with the behaviour of British people abroad, in places like Faliraki. Why is it that other Europeans are casually drinking and enjoying themselves at midnight while the British tourists are fighting or lying in the gutter?
Giles Clinker, UK

I grew up in the licensed trade in England but lived in Scotland for several years. Many of the problems associated with alcohol in England come not from the availability of alcohol but from the social attitude that encourages young men to get drunk. From my observation a relaxed, enlightened attitude towards opening hours actually produces less outright drunkenness because it removes the 'closing time swill' phenomenon. Here's hoping that England follows suit.
Sally M, England

Most of the proposals make sense and are long overdue with one exception - we should not be encouraging children into pubs. There are much healthier pursuits for children and families to do. Teaching sensible drinking habits should be part of a child's upbringing but the pub does not set the right example. Children should be limited to certain family pubs and times of the day only. We already have the reputation throughout Europe of being lager louts, let's try to encourage youngsters to seek more balanced forms of entertainment.
Avril, Scotland

I agree with the proposed changes to opening hours. Many a good night has been ruined by a beefy doorman standing over me while I try to down a drink as quickly as possible. However I have to disagree about allowing under-18s in. I go to the pub to enjoy an evening out with friends and be away from children. I do not want children in the pub ruining this. I do not believe pubs are the place for children. Certain pubs have already allowed children in and the no-smoking areas have consequently become "family" areas. As a non-smoker this has made me angry enough. Leave the kids at home please.
Sarah, UK

Whilst encouraged that the last orders rush may be curtailed, what about those patrons who never want to leave? I wait to be convinced that the proprietors and owners of licensed premises will take responsibility for their social and environmental role in equal measure to their profit drive. We are supposed to be encouraging rejuvenation of city and town centres. There is a grave danger that we end up with drinking ghettos which add nothing to anybody.
Ian, Scotland

I believe that letting younger people into public houses is a great idea. By being male bastions, people are under no pressure to act in a responsible manner when out. If younger people are around it may calm the heavy drinking culture in our country as people become more self aware. Also, pubs should be allowed to open at any time - after all, it would help stop large numbers of people coming out at closing time together causing trouble or whatever in taxi ranks and take-aways.
Andrew, Scotland

About time! Licensing laws have caused nothing but trouble since their introduction with most drinking too quickly to get the extra round in before closing time. It may take a while to alter attitudes but ever open means there is no rush and so, in all probability, much less drunkenness.
Jim, Scotland

Getting rid of kicking out time is a VERY good thing. No more 11 o'clock idiots on the street. It's high time we met the 21st century here in the UK. Good work! Can't wait!
Ben, UK

The recommendations are long, long overdue. Let's just hope the executive listen to reason for once and allow Scotland to become more like our European neighbours.
Jay, Scotland

Living opposite a problem pub in a rural village, where a Friday and Saturday night's drinking is finished by a ritual trashing of the village, I am unsure that these proposals will help. Legislation to make it easier to close down pubs where the clientele are the source of repeated problems to the local community at chucking-out time would put the onus on problem pubs to stop serving already drunken people.
TB, Renfrewshire




SEE ALSO:
Major shake-up for drinking laws
19 Aug 03  |  Scotland
Major reform to drinking laws
17 Aug 03  |  Scotland



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