We discussed human embryo research in our phone-in programme, Talking Point.
An experiment in the United States has created a mixed-sex human embryo.
Earlier this week scientists revealed that they were researching the possibility of using eggs from an aborted foetus in IVF treatment.
Another team said it was exploring the idea of womb transplants.
Is research like this acceptable? Do the possible benefits outweigh the ethical dilemmas? Should eggs from an aborted foetus be used in fertility treatment?
This debate is now closed. Read a selection of your comments below.
The following comments reflect the balance of views we have received.
In my view, embryonic and stem cell research should continue. There is a lot of hope regarding the treatment of diseases and disorders in this field. What we should be concerned about is the quality of life of the unborn child. Did the mother abort because the child would end up severely disabled? In an instant such as that, I think it would be better to abort the unborn child than to let it live a life where it and its caretakers would suffer extensively. I applaud physicians who can see beyond saving a life just because they can, and, instead, look ahead at the child's quality of life in the future, and make a decision based on that.
Jessica, Amherst, Wisconsin
 It's the corporations that fund the research I worry about  |
What is the cut-off point for this? If I need a new eye should I demand a foetus be grown for me on the NHS? I am sure the majority of researchers carry out this work with the best intentions, it's the corporations that fund the research I worry about - growing humans like cattle won't be an issue when it comes to balancing the books and there will always be one or two people more than willing to carry on the work on eugenics started in WWII!
John, Australia (ex UK) Many people seemingly fail to recognize that opposition to embryo research, stem cell research and abortion are all predicated upon a religious belief: that human life is somehow sacred from the moment of conception. From an objective, scientific and religiously unbiased point of view, the cells in a fertilized zygote are no more or less significant than any other living cells. A human being is the sum of properties emergent from enormously complex structures. Those structures are not in place in 4-cell or 4000-cell embryo. The notion than a handful of cells deserves superior moral treatment to, say, lab chimpanzees capable of self-awareness and expression, is shockingly ample proof that religion regards only human life as sacred and not Life on our planet as a whole.
Hadam Hiram, Los Angeles, USA
Yes! Of course the test should continue. Man is on this planet to seek out every way possible to destroy it; and to date is doing a wonderful job of it. Don't stop now with the weapons; let the scientists go as far as they want now, because they will do so in the near future regardless to what we say now. Let's go for it all:- the oceans, plants, animals, earth and not least space ( I'm pretty sure we can mess that up too in a big way).
Kevin, USA
There is always a clash between the strength of the human spirit to achieve greater things which seem to be impossible and moral issues such as whether human cloning should be encouraged, or whether human research embryo research should be promoted. One thing that is very clear is that as we have more and more scientific and technological advancements, we will have more comforts and at the same time more discomforts in disguise.
Albert P'Rayan, Kigali,Rwanda
I don't think anyone would argue that a child whose mother was never born is a step too far |
The biggest danger of pointless and frightening experimentation of this kind is that critical, genuinely ground breaking efforts, like the use of stem cells to combat disease and regenerate organs, end up being tarred with the same brush. I don't think anyone would argue that a child whose mother was never born is a step too far.
Phil, UK Doesn't anybody realize that there are already far too many humans on this planet if we don't do something to control the world population we'll be standing on top of each other before long. We need less not more. Channel research into something that will benefit the planet not humans.
Stephen Richardson, UK
I am absolutely disgusted by the idea of this. As a mother of two I can understand a woman's desire to have children and just how strong that calling can be. But let's please look for and use a less disturbing way of providing these women with eggs.
Ashe Eldritch, USA
Acceptance or adoption, not IVF, should be the consequence of childlessness |
As a scientist, I have no problem with the idea of the research as a tool to advance knowledge of the fundamental human process that is reproduction. However, I feel the big issue is that of women who, for one reason or another, are unable to have children. Acceptance or adoption, not IVF, should be the consequence of childlessness. Therefore for me, the very thought of someone using ova from aborted foetuses [I have no problem with abortion and regard it as a right] is horrendous and another money making bonanza preying on the 'needs' of women who cannot have children.
Katy, Nottingham, UK All infertility research should be stopped. Children are a gift not a right. Furthermore infertile people artificially allowed to give birth will be more likely to have infertile children, thus exacerbating the problem.
Frank Church, UK
It is amazing how all these discussions always turn into an abortion issue. My wife's pregnancy was a matter of sheer joy as well as tension to her. Her total involvement - emotionally and physically - is unique to mothers. To even suggest that such women would take abortion lightly, and not be absolutely traumatised by the decision is nonsense.
Regarding embryos, there is no way to stop unscrupulous quacks, narrow-minded researchers and eccentrics from using science as they deem fit. It is the normal, rational thinking people that should by sheer weight of our opinion ensure that such incidents are kept to a minimum. Just because USA or UK gets strict, it is not going to abolish it around all countries.
Pram, USA
I think the research should go on since it could definitely bring us further hope in life |
It seems that people only care about the rights of the embryo, and forget about the reason behind the abortion. It could be something more than juvenile pregnancy. It could be something related to the social, psychological or physical need of the pregnant lady. So if abortion is justified, then there is no such problem of killing one life and using parts of it for the creation of another. I think the research should go on since it could definitely bring us breakthrough in embryology and further hope in life.
Chelvin Gorr, living in HK If ova are important for this kind of research, why are they not harvested from the healthy ovaries of women who regularly opt to have their ovaries removed at the time of a medically necessary hysterectomy? Such harvesting would seem a very inoffensive solution. It seems that other live donor operations (eg. kidney transplantation, liver resection) are undertaken regularly, involving considerably more risk. I don't understand what the problem is - just fear of the unknown perhaps? However, that fear has never before held back true knowledge seekers - instead it holds back only those whom history inevitably regards as fools and footnotes.
Sarah, Canada
It's reassuring for once to see that the BBC is publishing comments mainly by WOMEN opposing this barbaric practice as well as opposing abortion and telling the truth that abortion can be linked to infertility. It's reassuring because for too long, the 'pro-choice', pro human genetic engineering lobby has been insufferably arrogant towards those of us who are women and who oppose these things, saying that we do not represent women's best interests. I really hope the disgust of the majority of the public at the idea of using foetal eggs will induce more women and men to oppose abortion as the wrong way to deal with unplanned pregnancy. The wheel is coming full circle; we should promote adoption again.
Catherine, Scotland
The logic just doesn't stand. If you abort a foetus because it's not a life ("life begins at birth" etc), then how can the foetus give life through its eggs then? Life gives life. If you believe it so important for mothers to give birth to children, then why is it not important for mothers to give birth to those babies that aborted? If it's so important for people to have the chance for life through medical advancements, what about the chance for life of the aborted foetus? I personally find the whole issue of abortion hugely complex and actually see validity in both sides of the debate. But it doesn't help the ethical, moral and downright rational debate when logic is so consistently violated. Contradictions are the weakness of any moral debate. The logic must stand and in the comments so far, it's fallen flat on its face.
Tom Franklin, London, UK
Humankind's quest for knowledge is unstoppable Robert Ellard, Dublin Ireland |
I'm very much in favour of scientific advances. Humankind's quest for knowledge is unstoppable. I just have this one reservation always in the back of my mind. The Fifth Commandment "Thou shalt not kill" You cannot escape the moral dimension to our existence.
Dermot Robert Ellard, Dublin Ireland I am an infertile woman and I happen to work in the biotech industry. I am going through IVF treatments but I have to say that there is a point where I would have to draw the line despite my need for a family of my own. How can we justify aborting one child and harvesting her eggs for the creation of another? It's mad. If young girls who get pregnant by accident were given the option to give up their babies for adoption maybe these desperate measures would not be needed. Personally, we would adopt rather than go through all this high tech treatment, but the only children available to us are already damaged by neglect and abuse by their birth families, so the chance of getting any kind of normal family by adoption is severely limited. There is such an irony that children are being destroyed in abortion clinics, while infertility clinics are desperately trying to create them, sometimes by distasteful means.
JS, UK
It seems clear to me that womb transplants, like heart transplants, would be completely acceptable as they involve using tissue from a dead human to enhance another's life. The unacceptability of using eggs from an aborted foetus in IVF treatment lies in the fact that the foetus is killed, rather than dying naturally, and that more embryos will be created and left to die in the course of the IVF treatment. However, like the 'mixed-sex embryo' experiment, such a bizarre procedure would not be motivated by science, but by a desire to so pervert and twist the essence and course of human life that those who believe in its sanctity become totally confused and demoralised. I pray that the opposite will happen and that it will become generally understood that there is only one acceptable moral line - no deliberate killing of human beings, whether on the street, in a war, in the womb or in the test tube.
Richard Hudson, Munich, Germany
As someone who suffered a severed nerve and can no longer move their left foot, my hope is that science continues these types of experiments. In my case, stem cell research is my best bet for nerve regeneration. If the possibility of doing great things to help humanity come through this kind of research, we have to do this.
Mike Daly, Hackettstown, NJ - USA
Scientific research and the research dollar should be spent on improving the quality of life of the worlds poor majority plagued by such infectious diseases as AIDS, HIV and malaria and not on such fanciful egocentric things such as this.
Andrew Leisewitz, Pretoria, South Africa
Embryo research itself has not gone to far. But this is an avenue that should be closed off. To harvest what would be wasted anyway for research in curing or preventing disease is a worthwhile cause. But to use the eggs in this way would be in the long term very psychologically damaging for the child when he/she found out
Cei, Peterlee, UK
This is nuts. There is simply no need to do this kind of thing. Certainly we need ways to help women conceive if they want to, but this research needs to stop. Even ignoring the moral and ethical implications of it, it is a complete waste of funds to spend money on something that will never have a market. People are uncomfortable enough taking eggs from someone else. There is simply no way enough people would be willing to take them from an aborted foetus to earn back the money spent on this. Their funding should be pulled for something more likely to be useful.
James K., Florida, USA
These procedures might be wrong but they should not be prohibited based on gut reactions |
It is surprising to see how many people will outright oppose such new procedures without an existing ethical debate. This and other medical procedures are so new and unexpected that no in-depth ethical discussion exists for them. These procedures might be wrong but they should not be prohibited based on gut reactions or religious zeal. There are good reasons to put an end to such practices - but there are all the wrong reasons too.
Alexander Glass, Urbana, IL USA I know there are logical arguments in favour of this type of research. But something in me finds using living human parts for research to be very objectionable. Its impossible to articulate but I just find it wrong. I know "logical science" will eventually win every debate over "spiritual nonsense". I'm glad I won't be around to see what we've turned ourselves into once "logical science" is able to proceed unopposed.
Jim , NJ, USA
Disgusting!!! The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of the Child wisely states that children have the right to know and be raised by their natural parents whenever possible. How exactly is this possible when one of the child's parents is an aborted foetus? Children, not the vanity of would-be parents should be the central concern here.
Darryl Douglas, Ottawa, Canada
People can be convinced that any action they take is okay |
For most of us, we believe in some higher power (God.) Morals aren't defined by us, they are supposed to be something that is greater than we are. The debate should never be based on the argument, "Well, we used to think heart transplants were evil, but now we don't. So that makes this OK." That has nothing to do with morals. It only reveals the fact that people can be convinced that any action they take is okay given enough time to convince them self of it.
David, USA Here is another example of religious fanatics getting in the way of scientific breakthroughs. How can abortion even still be an issue? I cannot even fathom such ridiculous, backwards "thinking." Of course, these same people are perfectly content to buy shampoos and conditioners that were tested on living, breathing rabbits, monkey, and mice. But that's not a political issue now, is it? Sounds like typical Christian hypocrisy to me.
Phillip, New York, USA
I am pro choice. I see no reason to be sickened by putting an aborted foetus to good use. After all, aren't organs donated by dead people's families used by others? What's the sense in throwing away the foetus in a body bag (or buried nicely) when in a way the foetus can live through its eggs? All those against it are lucky enough to have their kids the "normal way" and so, can take the high moral stance of advising "adoption" to the rest. This is such a non-issue.
Ruchi, NJ, USA
A shortage of egg cells? The world has far too many people on it as it is, and as medicine continues to advance so will lifespans, geometrically increasing the population as well. Moral implications aside, why exactly do we need more egg cells? Why do we need more pregnancies? Give it a rest already and cut with the breeding!
Aj, USA
This kind of science could help many people |
This kind of science could help many people. I agree the world is overpopulated and that people should adopt but a lot of people won't. The eggs would just get thrown away, people might as well use them. It is a special thing to give birth to a child; to have life growing inside of you. If using these eggs can help people to experience that, by all means use them.
Alexandrea Adams, California, United States I cannot come to terms with the very idea of abortion. However, if a baby were miscarried naturally I could see transplanting donated organs the same as is commonly done if a person had died in an automobile accident.
Carol Beckman, USA
Abortion is not an easy choice. It has been 10 years since mine and I'm still having counselling about it and have considered suicide more than once because of the guilt I feel. The thought of someone using my baby to obtain some eggs from it absolutely repulses me. I'm now infertile due to lack of ovulation (Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome) and am desperate for a baby. But, I would rather remain childless than accept this type of butchery. I think of my baby every day.
Fiona, UK
How absurd! In as much as many people are desperate for children they should have in mind some ethical values. The more we push them away (from our values for the sanctity of life), the more we descend into an abyss of lack of control...at this rate we would suddenly see nothing wrong with "harvesting" humans by machines...the matrix style!
Udoh N, Nigeria
It is a bizarre and sick twist |
It is a bizarre and sick twist to take the killing of one unborn baby to then harvest it's eggs to create other babies. The difference between what is being proposed here, and the old outrage surrounding heart transplants is quite clear cut. The person giving the heart was not deliberately killed.
Daniel Liddicott, UK Actually this could really benefit the anti abortion people. Children raised from such a procedure would most certainly Ban Abortions within their lifetime.
Kevin, USA
The world is already overpopulated. We could be using the research money to feed the hungry, not for this grotesque kind of science. Adopt - countless children need parents.
Dave, UK
I think that science is getting just a little too strange. In the past couples with fertility problems were left to accept it, and adopt a child if they wanted one. I think that if this continues , one day we will all be related...literally!!!
Margaret, USA
I am pro-choice. This is disgusting and disgraceful. There are plenty of children awaiting adoption into a loving home.
Joanne, Brit in the US
I am sick of men trying to tell me that abortion is wrong. When you can bear a child, then I will listen. If this allows women to have children, then do it - it's similar to organ donation; something good can come from a tragedy. And if you put an egg into a woman, she's the mother. No explanation needed.
Lisa, UK
This kind of technology could offer hope to thousands of couples and so deserves serious research rather than a knee-jerk campaign of orchestrated media outrage from well funded but ill-informed religious and pro-life groups. If, and only if, it proves safe and comes to be used the child will not be without a mother or have a "dead" mother - they will have a mother in the woman who brings them up.
Tom, UK
SUGGEST A DEBATE This topic was suggested by Jane in Wales Should the eggs of aborted foetuses be used in fertility treatment? |
As someone who is pro-choice, I am disgusted by this idea. How would the resulting child of such a pregnancy cope with knowing its mother was never born herself? As for the shortage of eggs, surely one solution would be to allow women to "sell" their eggs. Sperm donors are paid for their "contributions" - why not egg donors? Mercenary maybe, but women only produce a certain number of eggs in their lifetime, and so they are a valuable (and saleable) commodity.
Heather Greene, England Here we have the usual suspects crying out in anger. They haven't even had a look at the research or the implications or the benefits, they just want to go back to a time when we amputated with a rusty saw. This is a positive move, as is stem cell research, as were heart transplants, all of which these people were against. The sooner the rest of the world learns to ignore these people the sooner we will find cures for all diseases
Vish, UK
Surely, it would be an ideal situation if it were possible to transplant a WHOLE foetus between a woman who does not want to be pregnant, and one who is desperate to be pregnant. Then there are no deaths, and no heart break.
Rob, UK
Parenthood should be as natural as possible |
This is an outrage. Surely parenthood should be as natural as possible. We seem to be experimenting in any way that seems possible - no matter the consequences to those children which have to live with the knowledge that their parents may be unknown - or in this case - never even born! The psychological implications for such children could be horrendous. Even now, with IVF being made available to almost anyone and everyone - how soon before adults have to have blood tests to ensure they are not marrying their brother or sister?
Linda Pease, UK Every advance in medical technology is "against nature" but we've grown to accept developments such as vaccines as completely acceptable - and almost necessary. If we were truly committed to the principle of allowing life to take its course, we'd ban abortion - AND outlaw all forms of medicine as well. Instead, we prefer to pick and choose the extent of our principles according to personal sympathy and self-preservation.
Alexa, UK
When heart transplants were first pioneered in the 60's, there was similar outrage, yet now no one gives it a second thought.
anon
It most certainly isn't right. Speaking as someone who was conceived illegitimately and put up for adoption as a baby in 1966, I am forever grateful that the Abortion Act didn't come in until a year later. It's bad enough growing up without knowing who you are like, in looks and in nature, but to find out that one's biological mother never even had the chance to live herself would be utterly unbearable. At least with adoption there's a chance of meeting your mother one day... I think society is depraved when it can fight so fiercely for the "right" to reproduce yet accord no effective rights to the unborn child. Stop aborting and start adopting - problem solved!
Diana T, UK
This could end up being the only way we have left of reproducing |
Who is to say this is not the next step in human evolution. Given the increasing numbers of people who are becoming infertile, this could end up being the only way we have left of reproducing in a couple of thousand years time. You and I have no idea what shape our evolution will take. One hundred years ago if you had said we would all use things called "PCs" and they would be controlled by "Mice" you probably would have been considered a nutter. Let's just see what happens. These are not evil geniuses, the scientists who carry out this work, but people who do have our best interests at heart.
Bob, UK Have the people who have no objections to this actually wondered how a child might feel if it one day found out that its genetic mother had no name or even any real identity and was in fact never even born?
Jane, UK
This shows what depths science is capable of when unrelieved by any moral consideration.
John, UK
What's the difference between using something from an aborted foetus or something from another dead (or living) human being? Provided the parent(s) of the aborted foetus agree how can anyone object?
John M, Lyne Meads, UK
Using eggs from an aborted foetus to create another foetus is a very controversial and wrong idea. The reason that scientists are having to find a way round an "egg shortage" is because a lot of normal and sane women aren't prepared to donate their eggs so someone else can have a baby simply because they want one. Too many women are delaying having children and then discovering that their body isn't at it's best for pro-creating. It's not everyone's right to have a baby and these children will not even be the mother's own image. Please stop messing with an age old process which has worked since the beginning of humankind.
Lucy Giffen, England
How can this be right? It was reported this morning that the foetus eggs could be 'donated' to help IVF patients. How can a foetus be said able to donate, when it is not even given the right to life it deserves?
Geoff, UK
What we are talking about is recycling unwanted babies |
This would be a step too far if it ever comes about. What we are talking about is recycling unwanted babies. It seems to me we are prepared to go to ever more extreme lengths to enable people to become parents, and are encouraging people to pursue this goal ever more obsessively, when perhaps what we really need is a greater recognition that it is possible to live a rich and rewarding life without experiencing parenthood. I have come to this conclusion despite being infertile myself.
Jane, UK Just as a few thought provoking impulses to all those who turn away in disgust maybe arguing that the humanity begins with fertilization. If the couple that decided to do the abortion are considered as 'murderers', or ethically misguided at least, what are those people who deny a human the chance of living via IVF? Does it really matter to the child if it was disliked and given to IVF or if a woman willingly donates eggs or a foetus to her best friend? Again, as so often in this field there is no black and white and discussion will lead to acceptance.
H Walch, Germany
This is quite frankly one of the most deeply disturbing things that the study of human biology has produced. This has to be stopped in its tracks before it goes any further. The whole idea is grotesque, immoral and wrong.
Helen Inglis, UK
While I do see the benefit of harvesting stem cells from embryos, the idea of harvesting eggs from an aborted foetus is totally unjustified.
Abortion is a tragic event regardless of the circumstances. This is especially so at the stage of gestation noted in your article. To then harvest eggs from the dead foetus to enable a woman who presumably has the funds to pay for treatment of her infertility is disgusting.
It would be far better if the foetus was allowed to live and be adopted by the supposedly long line of hopeful parents.
Gerald Reiner, USA
It's a waste of ova to not use these and since there's a shortage, it may be useful.
Joseph Sanderson, UK
This is taking science to a "Frankenstein" level |
While I believe every woman has a right to try and bear children and every woman has a right to chose abortion, I find the idea of harvesting eggs from an aborted foetus to be absolutely repulsive. I think this is taking science to a whole other "Frankenstein" level. There needs to come a point where nature is allowed to take a natural course in reproduction.
Tuesday Tamburri, USA I find this to be totally barbaric but I'm not surprised considering our view of the foetus' human rights to this point.
Who said abortion wouldn't lead us down this slippery slope? They were wrong.
Steven Keever, United States
Let's not forget that not long ago, the idea of a heart transplant was considered grotesque by many, and that IVF was called blasphemous at its introduction.
David Brooks, USA
Essentially the same as harvesting stem-cells, this is merely a different facet of the same abomination.
Leonard Porrello, USA
It seems that most participants in this (often hysterical) debate are concentrating so hard on establishing their ethical credentials that they ignore an important question: how would gestation from an aborted foetus' oocyte impact culturally and emotionally on the resulting individual?
We establish our identity relative to a set of cultural norms, of which accepted morality forms a part. An individual conceived using the technology which could putatively arise from this research would, through the involuntary act of being born, violate many of these accepted norms.
Surely it is our humanitarian duty to consider this problem with at least as much energy as other, more rarefied issues.
Richard Parker, New Zealand
A simpler solution would be for people to adopt the foetus as their own rather than "harvest" eggs from it for another pregnancy.
Anthony Di Russo, USA
This madness needs to be stopped before it gets started |
The next step would be to have a woman impregnated with a disposable third trimester child, abort the child and get the advantage of who knows how many eggs for sale - all for the price of one pregnancy.
This madness needs to be stopped before it gets started. We are still human and hopefully will remain so, in spite of mad scientists who would play with humanity as they do with crops and mathematics.
Angela O'Neill, Canada I find it odd to think of trying to "do some good" with aborted tissue, as if this was a redemptive step.
Having friends and family who have been adopted, and knowing friends in my generation who have chosen to adopt, I am thankful that this way was sought and welcomed by their parents.
Believing that the dignity and value of a human life is beyond measuring, I can't think it is our prerogative to seek 'progress' that makes use of another victim.
Laura Carson, Japan
If the unborn are not human beings, then we should be able to do anything we want with them |
Why should harvesting eggs from an aborted foetus disturb those who support abortion? I think it is completely consistent with the pro-choice view. According to pro-choicers, unborn babies are not human beings and therefore there is nothing morally wrong with their mother choosing to terminate them. What then can be morally wrong with harvesting their eggs? If the unborn are not human beings, then we should be able to do anything we want with them.
Only the pro-lifer has a moral foundation for raising objections. The pro-lifer correctly recognizes that the unborn are indeed real human beings, and therefore it is morally wrong for anyone to abort them, much less harvest their eggs.
Paul Angelikas, USA So the foetus is not human but has the ability to reproduce other humans? What, then, is it?
To relegate the foetus to the role of baby production without acknowledging its humanity is wrong.
Sven Haalgrod, Canada
This is one of the sickest things I've ever heard of. If these women are so desperate for a child, how about having them adopt the baby who is being aborted and saving a life?
There may be a shortage of eggs, but there is no shortage of babies who need loving homes. This is another example of people who think that money can buy anything, including a full womb.
Debbie Anderson, USA
This is a completely disgusting idea, never mind being a remotely acceptable way of becoming a parent. If there are so many people waiting to become parents, why are there so many children in need of adoption? Why aren't there more people befriending women who unexpectedly become pregnant?
Elisa Waldron, USA
It saddens and sickens me to continually read about ideas like this in the media. The lack of respect for these individuals (the unwanted babies) amazes me.
They are human beings from the moment they are conceived as far as I am concerned and nothing should be taken from their tiny bodies at all. It's bad enough that they were aborted in the first place.
Joanne Douglas, From UK - Living in USA
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