Violence against children is often excused by the law which permits adults to use reasonable chastisement, says a group of MPs. The group wants the government to remove that defence and tighten the law around smacking, saying that the abuse and murder of eight-year-old Victoria Climbie began with small slaps.
Eighty British children die each year from physical abuse, compared with no deaths in Sweden, where smacking is illegal.
Previous plans to outlaw smacking were ditched as unworkable and critics say the Climbie case is being used to try to criminalise parents.
Do you smack your children? Would it save children's lives if hitting was outlawed? Are parents being criminalised? Could stricter laws be workable?
This debate is now closed. Read a selection of your comments below.
The following comments reflect the balance of views we have received:
 Most decent parents find it hard to bring up children as it is in this soft touch country  |
What a sad country we live in when individuals suggest that discipline in the form of smacking is wrong. Most decent parents find it hard to bring up children as it is in this soft touch country; don't make things any harder. I think most normal decent people can tell the difference between a smack and a beating. Socially, this country is in a mess already because of the lack of discipline in schools and I for one would discipline my child if the need arose in the way I was disciplined. I think this suggestion falls in the same section as the one about burglars having right.
Neil, UK No-one should escape the penalty for abusing children. However, there is a difference between smacking very, very occasionally in extreme circumstances and constant physical violence! Indeed, the absence of real and memorable punishment at home, and latterly in schools has, in my view, created the very lawless society. The basic problem lies with parents who have no parenting skills because they were not taught them, and who are uninterested and ready to delegate every responsibility to schools, social workers and others.
John M, UK
I would like to know how smacking could be policed if it became illegal?
Michael, Australia
Without effective punishment, children have no reason to behave themselves |
Discipline is a key component of child rearing, and of society. Without effective punishment, children have no reason to behave themselves. The result is a society filled with adults who refuse to take personal responsibility for their own actions, and have no fear of being held responsible for their actions and punished for crimes they commit. Spanking, smacking, etc, all of these are effective tools to teach children the difference between right and wrong, and what will happen if they choose to misbehave. Spanking and smacking must not be outlawed by society.
JD, USA
I notice that many of the foreign correspondents from the Netherlands, Finland etc., are anti smacking. Maybe we should send our bad kids over there for a month or two, and see how they cope.
Johnathan, UK
I smacked one of them once, all I saw in her eyes was fear and confusion |
The people who advocate smacking as a way to instil discipline need to understand the differences between respect and fear. My 2 children can be little bathplugs sometimes, but that's the way children are - I smacked one of them once, all I saw in her eyes was fear and confusion. It had the short term effect of stopping her doing what she was doing, but I will never do it again. There are many means at an adults disposal to discipline their children; smacking teaches them fear, not respect, it tells them you lost control, it does nothing to aid their understanding other than they understand that if you're big and strong then you can use violence to get your way.
Leigh, USA (UK Orig) I have never smacked my daughter. That doesn't mean I'm against smacking, I've just never had to. For some children a stern word or even just a disapproving look is all it takes to let them know they're in the wrong. Some people seem to think that smacking is about inflicting pain. I'm not of that mind. Smacking should be about startling a child not hurting it. Anyway, a single smack probably does a lot less damage than a string of verbal abuse which is what some children suffer.
G Tully, UK
I was smacked as a child and so were my 4 siblings and I can honestly say that none of us want to go out and rob the local bank, beat up our next door neighbours, or torture cats. Smacking on the bum is a form of discipline not abuse to me it's an abuse of a child to let them get away with wrongdoing and then sit down and say let's talk about this!
Tom, Canada
We should send the message that violence is unacceptable |
Most 'yobs' are likely to have or have had beatings from violent or inadequate parents. There are other ways to teach children right from wrong. We should send the message that violence is unacceptable at the earliest possible age.
Andy, England To Andy, England - I am watching a "yob" grow up next door to me. At the age of 8 he is already vandalising and stealing things and he has never been smacked in his life. Most people in my street agree it's exactly what he needs!
Dan, UK
Instead of comparing British laws with those of Sweden, compare them with the US, where the government has passed laws that make it impossible to discipline a child without being charged with child abuse. And the result? Rude, ignorant and violent children who grow up to be rude, ignorant, violent adults.
Joanne, Brit in the US
Joanne, Brit in the US, is absolutely wrong when she says US laws make it impossible to spank children without being charged with child abuse. The violence of my countrymen begins and, I think, grows out of the fact, that most American children are beaten routinely. I watched a woman in front of a police station beat a screaming, terrified two-year-old boy with a stick broken from a nearby tree because the little one was unable to stand quietly beside his mother for two hours while she tended to business at a police desk.
J.L., USA
Smacking only shows that control can be gained through physical abuse and fear. This can have a number of effects, most of which are negative including:-1. Children can become with-drawn and afraid to express themselves; 2. They themselves see physical violence as an acceptable way to gain control; 3. No respect or reasonability is taught, only fear. With all this in mind it would seem that smacking is not a solution to the problem, but that it simple adds to the problem.
Alan Petty (teacher), United Kingdom
You don't smack to hurt |
As usual there are posts here from people who claim to never smack their young child. You don't smack to hurt, you smack to shock and it has no link to violence. A vast majority of these so-called child experts have never been parents and they have no real concept of parenthood; it is not something you can read from a book, and as far as I am concerned if they haven't had kids, they are simply not qualified to comment!
Tim Nicholson, United Kingdom Tim "you don't smack to hurt" ... you tell that to some of the children in the UK who are on the child protection register, or who die each year because they like me (as a child) were at the receiving end of their parents "smacks". I am not into soft parenting, I whole heartedly believe in firm boundaries and clear guidance, but I don't think you have to smack children to achieve this.
Jane,
No, don't ban smacking. I remember being smacked once when I was young - the threat of a smack was enough to stop me misbehaving. However, children these days don't seem to have respect for anyone. They know that, in reality, they can get away with almost anything. Children need putting to learn how to respect others. It's about time parents started taking more responsibility for their children and actually took the time to nurture their offspring.
JJ, UK
I'd like to see smacking outlawed |
Smacking is wrong, abusive - and it doesn't work, it simply passes on physical aggression to the child. As a specialist teacher working with children's emotional and behavioural difficulties, I often see parents who routinely smack their children (who then transfer the aggression shown to them to their peers at school). Children often tell me they prefer a smack as it doesn't involve having to take responsibility for, or even discuss their behaviour. I'd like to see smacking outlawed - but not without a government publicity campaign to promote positive methods of behaviour management - which work.
EBD Teacher, UK Absolute nonsense! It's no coincidence that the increase in "yob culture" coincided with the banning of corporal punishment in schools. I can just imagine how kids will be able to run riot and get away with it if smacking is banned too.
Emma, UK
What do you ban after smacking? If you take away a child's favourite toy that amounts to theft. Sending them to their room is imprisonment. Shouting is mental abuse and don't even think about making them sit at the table until they have finished their dinner as that would be a form of torture. It's getting to the point where you could be arrested for giving someone a dirty look.
Simon, England
Would this specifically British zest for smacking their children have something to do with nostalgia for the good old days when whipping at public school made the happy few the men they are today? How odd, to think that the lack of respect of today's children has anything to do with the permission by law for their parents to beat them.
Frans, Netherlands
It is far more effective to remove a favourite toy or television programme |
It is beyond me how anyone could even consider smacking a child, the most precious gift there is. I have a 4 year old who is probably just as mischievous as the next but not once have I considered it a possibility to punish him with smacking. It is far more effective to remove a favourite toy or television programme, or any similar privilege.
Mrs H. Donnithorne, UK I am very worried that we are giving children more and more rights with less and less responsibility. Children as young as 8 years old are already using the fact that teachers cannot do anything more than threaten to tell their parents, to taunt teachers and try to provoke them into physical contact. There is a clear distinction between discipline and abuse, and in a caring community a child in danger would be noticed and action could be taken. Kim
Kim Heseltine, UK
It shows lack of imagination to lift your hand to a child. My father's form of punishment was deadly silence. This instilled more remorse in me than my mother's all too often swipe with the wooden spoon.
Wendi, Northern Ireland
Let parents make responsible choices |
So they ban smacking, and make it even more difficult for us to set boundaries on our children. Next, we won't even be able to send them to their rooms - Amnesty International will claim it's unfair imprisonment! Let parents make responsible choices.
Neil, UK I do not believe that smacking should be banned. There has to be some kind of corporal punishment. I have on very rare occasions, smacked my children. However, a stern look usually does the job, because they know that the smack is there if needed, so they tend to behave after the look.
Geoff Lock, Wales
So the government considers that being prevented from smacking a child will reduce the number of children killed by physical violence? Rubbish! If an adult flips at their child, then there is nothing that can be done about that.
Andy, UK
I do not accept any government telling me how to chastise my children. My offspring are now in their 30's and I smacked them perhaps twice during their childhood after warnings that their behaviour, if continued, would lead to a smack. I usually negotiated to success but on an occasion a smack was required. It is for parents to decide and social services to act if excessive force is used - as they are supposed to now but they appear so feeble in operation... no law will change their lack of action.
Pat, UK
It's disgusting that you are allowed to smack someone you are meant to protect |
It's disgusting that you are allowed to smack someone you are meant to protect. You don't need violence, such as pulling the hair and smacking, to bring up or discipline your children. You would not need video surveilance to police the ban. Children will quickly learn to contact the police or call a helpline if they are smacked, as they have done in other countries.
Minna, Finland I realise there is a fine line between discipline and child abuse, but I would like to beleive that most adults know the difference and can control their behaviour. I was the recipient of some smacks when I was a child, none of which did me any harm. In fact I know in the long run I benefitted. All children need to learn the boundaries of what is right and wrong, and that there will be consequences if they overstep those boundaries.
Sue, Canada
What happens if a vengeful child reports the parent to a teacher, when nothing has happened? Would the police then automatically interview a parent to see if a smack has taken place? I think this outside interference into the family is very undesirable. These MP groups should concentrate on real child abuse and poverty and deserve a smack for causing so much mischief!
Jon, Germany
Not only smacking must be outlawed, but all other forms of child punishment. punishment simply has no place in modern education! If a youngster behaves antisocially, let the courts deal with it.
Tom, UK
I know that it made no difference to me |
I was brought up to respect all elders, and this was enforced physically if appropriate, both at home and at school. However, in the end I only respected adults that deserved respect, so from that point of view "smacking" achieved nothing. As a parent now, I find it difficult to decide on the right course of action; in principle there is no harm in a clip round the ear, but does it achieve anything? I know that it made no difference to me, so I have to respect my kids enough to assume that I am wasting my time with them as well! Mind you, how you do discipline kids these days is anybody's guess - it seems an impossible task.
David, UK Smacking is fine if done properly. All 3 of my kids were smacked and they in turn will smack their children. Abuse is when smacking is mis-used. Even if smacking is banned abusers will find other ways of damaging their children with more serious consequences such as verbal or emotional cruelty. The old saying "sticks and stones may break my bones etc..." is a lie - words do more damage than a short sharp smack on the hand or bum.
Doug, UK
Child abuse and smacking a child due to bad behaviour are worlds apart, and should be treated so, anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that. Unfortunately, the group of MPs wishing to further undermine discipline in this country do not know where common sense resides! Still, they have to justify their income somehow. They probably work in the same building as the group who worked out the appropriate pressure to apply to your teeth while brushing!
Dan, England
If a parent or any adult is naturally inclined to smack a child excessively, then no ban will stop this. However it does leave honest parents who use smacking sensibly in a very grey area. I personally think that a ban is ridiculous.
Gary Stewart, UK
Some children need a smack when they have been bad |
There is a huge difference between smacking a naughty child and abuse. Some children need a smack when they have been bad otherwise they may grow up thinking they can get away with things. Ever wondered why they are so many juvenile crimes these days? Strict parental discipline of unruly children may prevent this.
Craig, UK No. Have you seen the children on the streets today? On the whole, their conduct makes me ashamed that I'm part of the same species. This is "political correctness" gone way overboard.
Clive, UK
Laws protecting a child from abuse do actually exist |
Why do we persist in punishing everyone for the excesses of a few? Smacking isn't the issue - there is a vast difference between smacking a child, and administering a beating. The laws protecting a child from abuse and beatings do actually exist. Why not put the time and effort into enforcing them for a change, rather than drafting up another piece of legislation that will have little effect on child safety - since it will prove unenforceable?
Matt, UK Violent abusive parents will continue to be so in private- where it all occurs. There's no need to criminalise loving parents for giving a slap as a last resort.
John R, UK
Smacking your kids (within reason) is not abuse |
I think some kids need a smack - they also need other forms of discipline to ensure that they grow up with a sense of right and wrong. The UK has some of the worst mannered kids I have ever seen. Smacking your kids (within reason) is not abuse!
Mandy, UK There is a difference between smacking and thrashing the living daylights out of a child. I was smacked as a child, but not as a pastime and only when I had been naughty. I got to know when I could expect one too, so in time it became apparent to me to keep my side of the bargain, and not be naughty. Recently, I was witness to a small child kicking, hitting and screaming at his parents because they would not buy him a sweet from a snack machine. The parents just told him to stop and be a good boy which just made his behaviour worse.
G Williams, London, England
SUGGEST A DEBATE This topic was suggested by Rob, England Should smacking be outlawed? Is it a knee-jerk reaction to the Victoria Climbie case to deflect blame from the social workers involved? |
Smacking has to be banned because no one can predict the effect it can have on children in later life. In my case, my parents made smacking the primary form of punishment; including hitting with belts and other hard items. Without going into details, it has left psychological problems including self harming. There will never be a guideline to tell a parent what kind of smacking is enough and what is excessive so it has to be banned outright.
Anon, UK
I was smacked as a child, but would not smack my children. My wife (a Swede) would simply not allow it! Friends do smack their kids from time to time. But we see no better behaviour in their kids, than our own. I think there is a cycle of violence passed on from parent to child over each generation that can be broken is the alternatives are tried and it becomes unacceptable to smack.
Around a dinner party in the UK most would say smacking was OK in moderation. A similar dinner party in Sweden would find almost all saying it was totally wrong. The key is to show folks in the UK how to discipline without violence (even though this was not what they were shown as kids). Teach the alternatives and back this long overdue change with law.
Adrian, Scotland
You cannot exactly say it should be legal, so by default does that mean it should be illegal? |
The trouble is you cannot exactly say it should be legal, so by default does that mean it should be illegal? It's very difficult to regulate, so if left legal, it can be abused. But if made illegal it could make disciplining highly expensive as we would rely further on the courts and school and less on the parent taking responsibility.
Jim, UK Family life is a fine balance and each family is different. It is not up to the government to control everything in our lives. It is ridiculous to compare ordinary parents to the Climbie case. This couple were allowed to continue by welfare, who were employed directly by the government to help, but did not. Before banning smacking, let's make sure those employed to keep a balance are capable of doing their job.
Nick, uk
Parents who smack do so as an expression of their own frustration. They need to learn to cope with the difficulties and demands of parenting. Perhaps this is something else that needs to be taught in school. Children that have been smacked often exhibit behaviour problems later on.
J Lawrence, UK
If I hadn't had a clip when I was younger I would still be drinking and thinking I was hard |
No! If I hadn't had a clip round the ear a few times when I was younger then I would still be sitting on street corners drinking and thinking I was hard. I think parents should be able to make up their own minds as to how to discipline their children.
Anon, UK I worked as a childminder and very much support a ban. There is no need to smack other people's children - if you cannot discipline a child without smacking you should not be offering your services as a professional childminder. I always felt that 'smacking' NOT hitting or beating is a useful tool in the large spectrum of strategies of disciplining your own child - but never smacked my own children in front of minded children as this would have been humiliating for them and frightening for the minded child.
Christina Marshall, England
There are good reasons why Sweden has a better record for abuse and these have nothing whatever to do with smacking. Things like better family structure because of higher average income, better facilities for children, more shared parental time with children etc. I bet the odd smack still happens though!
Dirk, UK
Does the government really think that by stopping a slap in public the abusers are going to stop behind closed doors?
Nikki, UK
Unfortunately I don't think you will see a decrease in the amount of children dying at the hands of carers; what you may see is an increase of undisciplined children flying in the face of the law, and law-abiding parents ending up in court. I have three children and a smack on the hand or leg is used as a last resort, and they are left in no doubt as to what they have done to receive it.
Barry Watts, UK
Hitting an adult is not permitted in the law, so why should hitting a child be?
Helen, UK
The only clear place to draw the line is to say no to smacking altogether |
Yes. Whilst most parents know where to draw the line when disciplining their child, it is a different matter when the courts are trying to decide whether a smack was abusive or not. The only clear place to draw the line is to say no to smacking altogether. Having said that I would hope the authorities would exercise their judgement before bringing charges against anyone.
Mark, UK Responsible parents should have the right to discipline children and sometimes that may need to have a physical element. The government should consider having a requirement on parents to attend a parenting course. This would achieve far more for everyone - children, parents and society as a whole.
Al, UK
I have been a cub leader for eight years and have noticed a dramatic change in children. They no longer have respect for authority and when told to stop doing something the answer is "Why? You can't do anything to me." Children should not be fearful of adults but the respect has gone. If parents cannot even use the threat when a child is screaming the place down, they have lost all control. I train on child protection issues but believe it's gone too far. Kids aren't stupid; they listen to the news and know what their rights are.
Julie Geens, England
Our existing laws can cover the protection of children from injury. This is just another case of adding a new law because we cannot enforce the old ones.
Sean, UK
My mum used to say, do you want a boring lecture or a smack? |
When I was younger my mum used to say, do you want a long and boring lecture or a smack? We would always ask for a smack to get it over and done with. I think hitting should be banned but not smacking. What are parents supposed to do? Anything that is not physical is going to be mental and mental damage is much more dangerous. No matter what the law says if the situation requires it I will smack my children.
Emma Chandler, Wales I do not think smacking should be banned, it is a good form of punishment and it didn't do me any harm. The government blames teenage crime on parents but if they haven't got the right to punish their children the way they see fit then why should they do it at all? Just because there is a minority of people who abuse their children banning smacking is not the answer to all problems.
Victoria Selby, Britain
How is such a ban policed? Video surveillance in every family's home?!
Cathy, England
The Climbie case is not a justification to ban smacking but is an indication that more money needs to be spent on training social workers and hospital staff to spot signs of abuse. The RSPCA is not advocating a ban on smacking dogs to teach them what sorts of behaviour are acceptable and what are not. Children need to be protected but not armed with the means to escape from a powerful and effective method of providing discipline.
David Comyns, UK
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