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| Talking Point Can your accent hold you back? Your reaction <% ballot="289729" ' Check nothing is broken broken = 0 if ballot = "" then broken = 1 end if set vt = Server.Createobject("mps.Vote") openresult = vt.Open("Vote", "sa", "") ' Created object? if IsObject(vt) = TRUE then ' Opened db? if openresult = True AND broken = 0 then ballotresult = vt.SetBallotName(ballot) ' read the vote votetotal=(vt.GetVoteCount(ballot, "yes")+vt.GetVoteCount(ballot, "no")) if votetotal <> 0 then ' there are votes in the database numberyes = vt.GetVoteCount(ballot, "yes") numberno = vt.GetVoteCount(ballot, "no") percentyes = Int((numberyes/votetotal)*100) percentno = 100 - percentyes ' fix graph so funny graph heights dont appear 'if percentyes = 0 then ' percentyes = 1 'end if 'if percentno = 0 then ' percentno = 1 'end if else ' summut went wrong frig it numberyes = 0 numberno = 0 percentyes = 50 percentno = 50 end if end if end if %>Votes so far:
It's simply a matter of being understood. Having spent half my life in Surrey and the other half in Yorkshire, my experience is that people with regional accents are less tolerant of 'outsiders'. I find it far easier to speak to someone without any recognisable accent (some would probably call it southern) rather than strong Yorkshire or Scottish ones. Living in Saxony, East Germany, I have a strong feeling that in Germany the Saxon accent has a great influence on how other people treat you (the Saxon accent is regarded inferior). I fancy that some experience of this kind applies to other languages and countries as well. Yes, your accent can hold you back. A personal view is that it is best to have command of standard English, while retaining fluency in one's local dialect. We dress differently for various occasions; why not vary the language as well? It's sad, but it's true: an accent will make things more difficult. I'm American, but I used to live in London, and every time I opened my mouth, I seemed to cease to have a personality; I was suddenly labelled "self-absorbed American tourist" and not allowed to be anything else. What an appalling idea! It may be that accents get in the way of career advancement but that hasn't kept many a lad from the bogs from doing very nicely for himself, thank you. Just like race, accent can be a handy excuse for one's own personal failings. I dread the thought of an accentless world, which, I fear is one of the more insidious effects of television. People should get rid of their TVs before their accents become completely diluted. The way in which one speaks can most certainly affect another person's perception of one. However, Miss Bainbridge seems to overlook the fact that there is no "correct" way to speak. Correctness or incorrectness is in the ear of the listener only, and entirely depends upon where you are. Accents add flavour and interest to everyday life. It is an extremely sweeping statement to brand people with 'accents' as uneducated and I am sure this is not the view of the majority. I certainly don't think that the apparent attitude of some people to those with different accents (as mentioned earlier) is intended to be racist but more to do with ignorance. It goes back to the children's playground scene where if you were not the same you were not one of the crowd. Frankly, I find Miss Bainbridge's opinions rather dated and offensive. I am from Nottingham and only really realised what an accent there is there when I left for Ireland. I think that Ms Bainbridge is very wrong when she says she wants to get rid of accents as it now makes me feel like home when I hear a Nottingham accent. Its great to talk to people from home and you know you can trust them. Bainbridge is living in the 19th century. Language is a constantly evolving thing. Accents, how we say words and how new words are made is through this process. Our accents in the UK set us apart from one another and give us a degree of individuality. Does Bainbridge desire a nation of monotonous robots? Undoubtedly an accent holds one back in the U.K. I have a strong Glaswegian accent and when living in England it is a definite professional handicap. Living in other countries it can be a slight advantage due to the general mild dislike of the English. As a Turkish Cypriot with an accent, I find that most English people regard myself (and other ethnic minorities) as a lesser being. Although I am probably more educated than those I communicate with. This all stems from racisim. The problem with Standard English is that it originated not only as a means of communication but also as a means of defining status within society. We should remember that it is no more than the patois of the eastern midlands in medieval England, which then became the speech of the aristocracy. Thereafter it was tempered with the vocabulary and cadences of Francophone speech, and made to sound more 'educated' by the adoption or invention of words with Latin or Greek origins. Nothing wrong with that, but it should not be seen as superior just because it is the language of power. There is nothing inferior about regional pronunciation, grammar or vocabulary. Bad grammar is as bad in dialect as it is in Standard English. Coming from Africa, an accent can cost you your life in some cases. We know the nuances in the pronunciation of different people groups. So if tribes are at each other' s throats and you happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong accent, prepare to meet your ancestors!!! We also have a widespread practice of nepo-tribalism where the ones who get hired and who get upward mobility are those whose accents you recognise as coming from your own tribe!!! Picking up on Tom Wier's point that most people are 'bidialectal', I would go one stage further, and say that most people have a range from Received Pronunciation to Regional Accent, and the depth of accent they use will depend on who they are talking to. I don't think that regional accents 'should' hold someone back. It's a shame that it does actually happen. I'd just like to say, that if anyone speaking the Queens English comes to Scotland, I will not hold their regional, and minority accent against them in anyway. One's accent can hold one back. Most people attach some form of preconception to accents different from their own. All too often, these preconceptions are negative and difficult to break down; it is therefore regrettable that Miss Bainbridge has chosen to use the public forum of an acceptance speech to make her pronouncements. It is particularly extraordinary that such notions should have come from a novelist: throughout the entire history of literature in English - from the anonymous author of the Middle English poem, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, through writers as diverse as Henryson, Spenser, Burns, Lawrence and Joyce, to contemporary novelists and poets such as Irvine Welsh, Tony Harrison and Linton Kwesi Johnson - most writers have been aware of the incredible richness to be found in accents and dialects from England, Scotland, Ireland and, indeed, the entire English speaking world. That Miss Bainbridge should chose to air her views on the perils of linguistic impurity would therefore seem to show a degree of insecurity about her chosen medium that is surprising for someone who has just won a major prize. This suppression of identity is simply a result of a centralised system. Due to the very nature of the Southern based media, it is inevitable that elitism will result. An accent or dialect is a vital part of identity, to dispose of this would be an enormous loss to our society. I think speaking same accent in one country doesn't make sense at all and probably it is impossible. To hear regional accent give us their familiarity and represent their colour. However people in one country should learn how to speak correctly. I mean just some accent would be O.K but hardly understood to other people may cause serious problem to our whole society. There does seem to be a general consensus of opinion that people with regional accents are idiots. Only the people with half a brain themselves realise this is complete rubbish. I'm currently working in Sydney Australia and people don't seem to care about your accent that much. On the contrary, in the UK I feel that you are frowned upon particularly if you have any sort of northern accent. I was speaking to a girl here in Sydney, she was from London and insisted on making the ever so original "Outside toilets and whippets in the North joke" - never heard that one before! If regional accents are so horrible (this doesn't just mean the north) then why do companies like First Direct choose areas such as Leeds to run their telephone bank? This is a ridiculous idea. Language is first and foremost a tool of communication, and provided your accent doesn't impair your communicative ability it's irrelevant. Diversity of accent and dialect make the language interesting. In any case who is to say what should become 'correct' English? Language is a living thing with new words and expressions being added all the time, changes of meaning occurring (e.g. gay) and hackneyed phrases being retired (jolly good). The only people who would judge somebody unfavourably because of their accent are those whose judgements are completely unimportant. In Britain, one is labelled by one's accent. Immediately someone opens their mouth, a label is applied and often people react accordingly. In expatriate gatherings of British people, apart from physical appearance, the next basis for categorising someone, is based on their accent. Unaccented English should be more the norm. Accents can hold you back if you allow it to, especially in snobbish England, in some cases you can use it to your advantage but ultimately your passage in life depends on attitude and demeanour and the way you treat people. If Beryl Bainbridge is right (which she isn't), then the only logical way to indentify proper English would be to choose the version spoken by the greatest number of English speakers. After all, language is about communication, is it not? I don't know how to tell you this, Miss Bainbridge, but American English is far and away the most widely used dialect. So git yer boots on Beryl, grab a brewsky, an', like, mellow out, lady. I completely disagree with Miss Bainbridge. Accents give different colour and shapes to languages and make them far more interesting and rich. I really enjoy the fact that there is plenty of different accents both in Spanish and English. Of course there's the inconvenience of making it more difficult to foreigners to learn a language, but anyway it'd be far worse and rather boring to have everyone speaking posh. I don't think that the way you sound dictates what kind of person you are or your capabilities in any way. Having been put to sleep for many years by The Queen's speech, which is monotonous, condescending, and totally lacking in emotion (except when she is having an annus horribilis), I would have to say I support regional accents and long may they continue. Our speech and dialect enhance who we are and make us individuals. There is nothing worse than "poshed up" voices, they are phoney and unnatural. I'm a Scouser who works in London and sometimes abroad and I'm very aware that my accent labels me (negatively) in some people's eyes. I'm convinced, sadly, that there are some occasions when this holds me back in the same that being black, being a woman or being disabled can. However, like other poeple, I deal with it and more than that I get great pleasure from the way that my accent identifies me to a region, to a period, to my history and even to a profession. The way I speak is a summary of the all the influences on my life - it's me! And sometimes people like me BECAUSE of my accent and for the links it makes with them - I have no desire to change my accent. Oh, and as for "our Beryl" - I suggest she reads David Crystal's book about the English language. Beryl Bainbridge should learn some manners and then, perhaps, she would not be so pointlessly abusive about other people. If we all spoke the same we would not know where we came from. The whole idea that there is a "correct" English is garbage. Language is never constant. The most proper modern British English would have sounded wrong to Shakespeare or Chaucer. If I were in Britain today, I hope that no-one would think less of me for speaking American English. It's not wrong, just different. So why would someone from London think less of someone from Liverpool? England is still a class-ridden society. We can tell who our betters are by the way they speak; and we can also tell who the lower classes are in a similar manner. Nothing has changed since I was a little boy. Britain has a wide array of beatiful dialects, each dialect giving each region in Britain its own valuable individuality. The problem is not the dialect, it is the grammer. Better education would solve the problem. By the way I'm Welsh and every day I am reminded of my heritage. It's one of the (many) things that make Britain so interesting to visit! I'm from Texas (we speak a variation of English!) so: Y'all come to see us now, ya heah! Speaking as a student of linguistics, I would first like to point out that Ms Bainbridge's comments seem to assume that this is an either/or situation, that you can either speak one dialect or another, but not both, and moreover, that there is any such thing as an objectively "proper" dialect to be spoken. Neither is by any means the case. Millions of speakers in hundreds if not thousands of languages the world over are in fact what one might call bidialectal, in that they might speak one dialect (probably that of their birth) at home, while speaking some sort of koine in public. Now, speaking as a practical matter, certainly some dialects have greater or lesser degrees of social standing, but this is only a social construct, and means only that education systems should be designed precisely to make individuals who speak a less presigious dialect (in Britain, non-RP dialects) able to switch back and forth between each. In fact, I would say that were those local dialects to be finally engulfed by the prestige dialect, we would be facing a tremendous cultural loss, since for many peoples around the world, a great deal of their identity is wrapped up in what language they speak. Send Miss Bainbridge to Texas, let's see her in action there. I'd love to see her approach to convert the Texas language back to English. Has Miss Bainbridge ever travelled from the line between Liverpool and London? English is the best language in the world, because it has the capacity to regionalize to support local influences. I am English and a Director of a Multinational Oil and Gas giant. I would defintely favour potential British employees at interview stage if they spoke "the Queen's English". There is a lingering stereotype in the US where the village idiot type often has a southern drawl. It is also stigmatized with the assumption that white people who speak thus are racist. A dialect understood by a large majority is preferable to an isolated dialect used by a tiny few. Ah totally disagree hen efter aw its whit yi say no how ye say it whit coonts.....besides ah fer wan can spoke perficktly guid England. Of course it can, although if one is a really talented person with drive they will get on regardless. But English spoken properly is still the best way to get on. People certainly notice it and it's a reason to be picked upon because of the difference. All you have to do is look how the establishment talk from the Royal Family down to your average Cockney. I believe the ability to speak correct English is extremely important. I originate from the West Country and have, over the years, taken part in Corporate Parlance Therapy at the request of my employer to weed out the regional nuances of the language in which I was previously accustomed. This in the last 7 years has not done me any harm and has, crucially improved my career prospects. If had not taken these English Language Parlance courses then I fear I would not be living in London now having a successful career and probably would be still in Devon or Cornwall worse off. What a boring world it would be if we all spoke in the same way. I wonder if she would prefer the whole world to speak 'the Queen's English' so much easier to understand than those stupid foreign languages. I'm an ex-pat Scouser myself and have never had any difficulty being understood (I'm an editor for a large publishing house). Beryl may be right but unfortunately, if current trends continue, we'll all end up sounding American. I think, like, you know, she meant, like, when people, you know, can't like even form a sort of proper sentence, or whatever if you know what I mean. I completely agree with Beryl Bainbridge. We should now all be speaking with American English, it is the preferred English of Germans, Dutch, etc. in business. I notice that in recent American movies the English gentleman either turns out to be the villain of the peace or an aristocratic. However I am particularly fascinated by the Irish and Scottish accents - they are so rich in culture when compared to their rather dull English counterparts. George Orwell once wrote that in Britain "one's class was cruelly stamped on one's tongue." I have heard some talented speakers on the various British shows with a cockney accent and, unfortunately, somehow their speech does indeed affect my perception of them. Regional U.K. dialects have always fascinated me since many people have difficulty understanding others who may live a few miles away. But even more interestingly is the fact that all can understand Queen Elizabeth proving that proper English is a unifying force. I do not think a regional accent should hold anyone back - they are a wonderful illustration of the diversity of our culture. My own accent is a mixture of my Father's Black Country and my Mother's London (I was brought up in Wolverhampton. I have two brothers one of whom has cultivated a very "Oxford" accent and the other who is markedly Black Country. It is this brother who gained a First in English at Oxford and who is a University Lecturer. I think Beryl Bainbridge is proving nothing but her own ignorance by her comments. A strong accent can hold you back, not because of your own deficiencies, but because of the narrow minded attitudes of others. However, it is your responsibility to make yourself understood and get your message across. If a strong accent gets in the way of this then perhaps you should try to change the way you speak. On the question of elocution lessons for all, this would be expensive, unpopular and would not work. Also, a diversity of accents and dialects provides our language with a richness which nobody should try to eliminate. According to BT and a few other call-centre operators, a Northern Ireland accent (that is not of the really broad variety) is quite pleasant to the ears. This is why so many of these centres have appeared in the country and why they are outperforming others in the UK. Furthermore, most people just seem to love the Irish brogue!! I think one's accent can hold you back, an East London accent for example gives a bad impression such as being uneducated and perhaps stupid. Regional accents make the UK a more colourful place. Without them there would be no difference between Glasgow and Cardiff. Definitely. In the UK a person's social background is revealed as soon as they utter a few words. I was born into a working class family in Dundee, but having emigrated to Canada as a child, I speak with a "classless" Canadian accent. I've been back in the UK now for eight years and I am convinced that I would not have achieved as much had I spoken with a Dundee accent. Regional dialects will disappear anyway over the next few generations as we become more integrated culturally via television and the internet. Yes, your accent can hold you back, but the notion that regional accents should somehow be done away with is frankly absurd and a little disturbing. Regional accents and dialects are part of our culture. Perhaps Miss Bainbridge should consider the sources she deems authoritative: just because some outfit in the south of England says "right, this is the English language, as it's spoken here" doesn't make everyone else "uneducated". Personally I don't want to be standardised. As a Boston [USA] based Black Country ex-pat, I can testify that an accent does indeed hold you back. Of course it should not, but it does - ask anyone from Dudley, or Birmingham as to whether they have experienced some form of "stick" or discrimination due to their dialect and I guarantee that the response will be a resounding "yes". Most of the expat Brits I've met in America have said they felt discriminated against in Britain for their accents, and liked America better, where for the most part people are not judged on accent, and where any British accents have if anything a positive reputation. Why stop at "Compulsory elocution lessons", let's extend Miss Bainbridge's "logic" one stage further and force everyone to use speech synthesizers? While we're at it let's standardize dress; I've never seen Miss Bainbridge but I imagine she wears tweed skirts, M&S lambs' wool sweaters and a navy blazer, we could arbitrarily define that as "proper" too. Yes, your accent can hold you back - if you have silly people with their stupid logic, as demonstrated by Miss Bainbridge. Years ago, I used to be embarrassed to speak, because of my Cumbrian accent, now I don't care. Miss Bainbridge is obviously ashamed of her upbringing. I say be proud of who you are and where you're from! As a born and bred Belfast man I have picked up a fairly strong Belfast accent. Since coming to Spain to work I have found this to increasingly be a problem both with Spanish people trying to learn English and with native English speakers from other countries (England, Australia, USA). It is a real problem in my job as communication is vital. Having said that my accent is part of where I'm from and who I am, it's a very visible way of saying that I'm Northern Irish, something which for me is a great pride. The idea of abolishing accents is quite frankly daft, after all, variety is the spice of life! A Scottish accent is automatically considered inferior by every educated English person. In the U.K an accent is an identity card, and one that can never be changed. What a rare pleasure to speak to someone who speaks the English language clearly & correctly. I would certainly agree that elocution lessons would be a good idea. Can hold you back - yes, WILL hold you back - all depends; how you sound, where you are, what is suitable for the occasion. Miss Bainbridge has confused the sound of a voice with the impression it makes. Nor is she clear about the difference between sounding "regional" and sounding "uneducated". Being a English person living in Belfast I would most definitley agree with Miss Bainbridge. In the first couple of years that my children and I were living here the children were subjected to ridicule and taunts all because of their accents. Beryl Bainbridge is, as we would say in Suffolk 'talking a right load of old squit'. We should celebrate the diversity of the language, not try and make everyone speak 'properly'. I never thought that I had much of an accent, but some fellow students told me today that I had a very broad accent. According to Beryl Bainbridge I should be ashamed of that, but quite the opposite - I am very proud! Beryl Bainbridge just dropped several dozen notches in my estimation! I do hope she's been misquoted. Of course different accents can hold you back - they can also help you on. It depends on situation and prejudice - but has nothing to do with the quality of your education. After 20 years of working as a teacher of English as a foreign language, my original sahf-east accent has slowed and rounded so much that, quite obviously, for many speakers of regional English, I sound posh. This has got in the way of friendly communication on more than one occasion! Personally I don't feel that your accent can hold you back. I must admit that with a Glaswegian accent like mine it can be difficult for many, especially English people to understand you fully. However I don't think that this holds you back because your accent is part of who you are and getting "rid" of your accent is denying who you really are. Yes an accent can hold you back. Many regional accents, especially that of East London, can make an intelligent person sound "fick". Dropping letters and using bad grammar imply a lack of education and are therefore bound to give another form of discrimination. But let's not forget that many of the words we use in English today have come from dialects. We use an evolving language that changes rapidly. So who is to say which way of speaking it is correct? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||