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| Tuesday, 4 February, 2003, 21:12 GMT War with Iraq: Will public opposition make a difference? ![]() We discussed the situation in Iraq on our phone-in programme, Talking Point. Our guests were: Click here to watch the programme. Or click here for an audio-only versionThe UK Government has been continuing its hard sell of the case for military action against Iraq to the British public. Opposition to war has grown with an increase in the number of public protests outside the House of Commons and throughout the UK. Anti-war organisers are fighting a ban on staging a protest in central London's Hyde Park. The Stop the War demonstration was scheduled to go ahead on 15 February, with organisers predicting a turnout of up to 500,000 demonstrators. Permission for the rally to be staged in Hyde Park was denied for safety reasons but organisers say the decision jeopardises civil liberties and claim the reasons given were "spurious". This Talking Point was suggested by J Murphy, UK: This Talking Point is now closed. Thank you for your contributions. Innocent people are being killed on a daily basis by the regime in Iraq - is this right? Because we don't see or hear about it on a daily basis is it ok for it to continue? I think not, the people who cry out "No War" should try living under the extreme conditions and suffer the same hardships that some Iraqis have to endure every day. Then they should try and organise a rally to voice their opposition and demand an end to the regime of persecution. After that, I would probably listen to what they have to say regarding a war against Iraq.
George, UK It is a right of the people in the UK to protest if they believe their views are not being presented in the House of Commons. To the best of my recollection (and, no doubt everyone else's) that Parliament was elected to speak and run the country in a way that will benefit us. So why are they pledging support to a war when so many people are against it? If they don't have public support, then it is their job to convince us that it is the right course of action, not to tell us it is the right course of action without justification. How can they then stop protests (against them please note)? I don't remember the student rallies in December being cancelled because of "health and safety" fears. Democracy is a wonderful tool. It works perfectly from four months before a general election until one week after it. After that, forget it. Why should "public opinion" matter anyway? Most people are driven by fear, greed or self interest, or a combination of all three. The media sheepdogs round them up, point them in the "right" direction and let them run. The only time politicians listen to them bleat is when they think it will be a vote catching thing to do - like the shambles of Dunblane, or fox hunting. War with Iraq is unavoidable: the UN has the power to start it, but not to stop it: President Bush has made this clear. Although the majority of the British people oppose this war, the Prime Minister has no choice; he must support the American position: you are with us, or you are against us,said Mr Bush. Therefore, the British people will have to accept this war, unless the America President changes his mind. The ongoing debate on the imminent war will not achieve anything: British public opinion is irrelevant to the American Administration. Blair and Bush shouldn't listen to the protesters. They know the truth about Saddam Hussein's WMD even if they can't reveal their sources. They know whether or not the public have been misinformed, and they're also probably aware of how fashionable it is to be anti-war. If they know that the right thing to do is to go to war, then they should do it. If the objective is to remove Saddam, then why go through War and the killing of all those innocent people. In this day and age, you can buy everything and anyone, so why not buy someone in Iraq to do your dirty work for you! Even though I am not in favour of war, I wonder if public opinion had have stopped us going to war with Hitler, what sort of world would be living in now? Thank goodness Roosevelt didn't listen to the thousands of Americans who opposed going to war in 1939(even if they did avoid joining in for 2 years). All I can say is that I'm glad I'm not Tony Blair. I can't imagine he is taking the situation lightly. Would you do the PM's job?
Pete, UK No-one wants war, but it is only a matter of time before Iraq acquires weapons of mass destruction. And the superpowers just want to make sure that they are the only ones with such power. It's as simple as making sure that the new kid on the block knows that you are the bully. Will public opposition make a difference in the war with Iraq? No, it won't. Why? Because those in high places planning it will not be fighting in it and neither will their offspring, for that matter. It's a sad comment on the state of today's so-called democracies when politicians refuse to listen to the voices of their own people. Hundreds of thousands of people all over the world are opposed to a war being promoted for the sake of the oil industry, the media monopolies, and George W. Bush's revenge on Saddam Hussein, yet corporate control over the international system dictates that war is inevitable. Some "democracy" we live in. Yes, indeed - public opposition certainly does make a difference. In a democracy, that is. Polls show that a majority of people support this war. And that is why the liberation of Iraq will surely take place. Public opinion has already dictated it.
Diane Bosert, USA Although impact of such opposition will be small, the people have to do something to prevent any loss of innocent lives. Let's just hope that the US does not have any hidden agenda, and that the Iraqi Government reacts to the UN inspections with full cooperation. Public opposition will not make a difference. Already, the wheels of war have been set into motion and once set into motion it cannot be stopped. The US has already spent a large amount of money to prepare for this. Do you really think that they will back down now when they have put so much money and effort into preparing the war? I for one cannot see peace in the nearby future. It is now a question of when war will occur and how many will die, not whether it will occur or not.
Any unilateral action on part of the US will divide the world further and the basic objective of disarming Iraq of possible WMD will become a non-issue. I think that good sense will prevail and the war will be avoided or delayed. After all, the war must be fought with the consent of the world community to avoid any misunderstanding or displeasure. Security, spin. I do not believe a word of Mr Blair's. If there was irrefutable evidence of a threat from Iraq then it would be made public. Forget the inspectors you don't move a huge portion of the best fighting men around just for fun. They are there for a reason and the plans and targets already selected. Don't treat us as stupid or na�ve. Public opposition might make a difference. But when it comes from school teachers, students, celebrities, and civil rights activists, and only those groups - no-one is going to listen. They are inherently liberal so they would never support war - no matter what. The media can blow every peace rally and vigil out of proportion all they want. It's not fooling anyone. There would have to be millions of protesters, not thousands, before they even come close to what the Vietnam anti-war protests were like. Point is, public opposition would certainly make a difference - there just isn't enough of it, coming from credible people, to make a difference. And I say that with all apologies and respect to disabled veterans. The politicians are well aware of election cycles, and yet they continue down this path. This tells me they know something we don't, and they can't tell us what they know right now because the lives of those who risk them to keep intelligence informed (not to mention the sources themselves) would be squelched. If war happens Blair and Bush and many others are certain that the evidence uncovered will redeem them by the next election, otherwise they know it's their hides. I, too, am nervous about it, but I think we'd best trust them on this one.
Jane Kalim, Spain I am appalled at the standard of news coverage, which seems terribly biased. Today, this website has tried to persuade its readers that European leaders have 'rallied around Tony Blair' in calling for action. Two facts which were overlooked: Firstly, the announcement was an initiative of Spain, not the UK. Secondly, only 5 of the 15 EU countries signed this declaration (and even in those countries, there is a very large anti-war sentiment). Stop trying to pull the wool over peoples' eyes. There is great concern and uncertainty about The United States/UK's strident approach to a possible war, not least in the US and UK. All I can say is, let's keep the pressure on our leaders to act wisely and sensibly, and not to rush headlong into a bloody and costly war which will inevitably lead to thousands of innocent lives being lost.
Despite years of mass demonstrations, widely covered by the media, the Vietnam War dragged on until policymakers became convinced that victory was unattainable and they were able to concoct a face-saving withdrawal (i.e. surrender). Too often, decisions about war are made based on pride and hubris, long the bane of primates such as ourselves. Some leaders are willing to sacrifice human lives, at times indiscriminately, in order to fulfil personal or political agendas. I suspect Mr. Bush is such a person. Still, I am drawn to the words of Ghandi who said: "What you do will be insignificant; but it is very important that you do it." So, regardless of its efficacy, those who love peace and see war as a f! allure of diplomacy must take to the streets and airways. It is our best hope. As an American Buddhist, I am opposed to this war. There is no need to create more suffering in this world. Ours is a great country, and although sometimes muddy, Democracy can prevail. Citizens of the world must speak with their hearts, and let anger cool by the truth. Bombs are for angry apes, we are men and women. The leaders of France and Germany are taking a cautious view with regard to war against Iraq after taking into consideration the view of the people. I am pretty confident most of the Western European countries among the eight signatories are not airing the views of their people. The Eastern European Block which depends a lot on US handout are economically dependent on the US will go along with them for the time being! Public opposition WILL make a difference. Just look at Germany: in an election year the incumbent swung the election by taking an anti-war stance. It was a brave decision and justified by the outcome. Anti-war protestors do not support Saddam Hussein, and certainly do not support the gassing of 5000 Kurds often cited as a reason to change the regime. Most of the anti-war lobby are also vociferous in protecting human rights, and we have been arguing that something needed to be done since the gassing occurred a decade ago. In my view the best way is through strengthened international laws (the ICC), total chemical and biological disarmament (by the US and Russia as well as "rogue states"), and a lot of help for the world's poorest (who are unsurprisingly often militant). When the West has a choice between appeasing its farm lobbies and genuinely solving the causes of world terror, which does it choose? Should we go to war? If I'm honest, I really don't know. I've looked at both sides and, without wanting to sit on the fence - I can't answer the question. I do believe however that if we do go into war we will witness terrorism on British and US soil on a par with 9/11 and thousands of innocent Iraqi people will lose their lives. Is this about oil? Possibly. Is Bush baying for blood? Probably. Is Blair committing political suicide? We'll see... The vocal point of those who are opposed to war will be heard and a lot louder than the couch potato warmongers who are overwhelmingly outnumbered and when the next elections are held in this country expect the lowest turnout ever as a result of politicians never listening We have become a weak nation of soft idealistic values. We don't want war because that's the almost "fashionable" ideal to convey. We stood alone in opposition throughout the 1930s when Hitler was amassing his terrifying attack on democracy. We are a civilised nation that cannot even begin to understand the regime under which the people of Iraq are held. We must forcefully put an end to the threat from Iraq in the only way that will be understood by the aggressors. Only then can this sorry ugly conflict be resolved.
National leaders simply have too much control of the media and the military for the individual to have any influence once the wheels of that machine are approaching the backs of innocent people. It is sad, but true. I pray that we will all take peace as our personal responsibilities from this day forward. Teresa Whitehurst, USA Public protest led to the end of the Vietnam War and stubborn public protest in Eastern Germany brought even the communist regime down. I think this is a very powerful method to express your opinion peacefully. Obviously many people are not convinced by the arguments given so far to justify this war. I personally fear more the consequences this war might bring. What part of "Saddam is a threat to the Western world" don't you anti-war folks understand? Even Blix said he's playing games with the inspectors. Our most sceptical journalists have discovered he's funded and armed 600 al-Qaeda in the Kurdish region, and set up a lab to develop WMD there (including the ricin just nabbed in London). He's sent pre-printed death certificates to his scientists as a warning to keep quiet. Bush and Blair are trying to do you a favour. True leaders don't subject themselves to the tyranny of the majority, when they know better. UK politicians have long since demonstrated that they care not for public opinion: that's why so many people are apathetic towards the ballot box. Therefore, public "opposition" to military intervention will have very little effect: at worst, you might find yourself being caught in "friendly fire"!
Pete, Canada British public opinion will not influence Blair. He fears his masters in Washington far more than he fears us. Public opposition will achieve nothing in preventing George W Bush and Tony Blair against planned military action. I am annoyed by the biased reporting - we have not heard a logical case for war from the media. But the opinions of the bleeding heart liberals are spouted with depressing monotony. Should we finally commit our troops to action we can only hope for a quick decisive victory. Should it be proven that Saddam has aided al-Qaeda then I believe we must strike at Iraq.
Marco, UK I feel sorry for all the servicemen and women who are being made to take part in this unjust war. The only good thing that will come of it is the removal of this undemocratic Prime Minister. If he cannot convince his own party that there is evidence that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction how can we believe him Opposition such as these are easily nullified by any government. All they need to do is arrest several key individuals under the charges of terrorism or treason. The wave of opposition will not last long and when the war erupts, the media will be too busy doing coverage on the battlefield. All I can say that opposition in this matter is a lost cause, since the press themselves are subservient to the authorities, indirectly. That is why we do not see a large, continuous and sustaining coverage of the protests because the government will offer a much better stories for them.
Imogen, London, UK With the amount of public hostility to war, I think this shows that democracy has left the hands of the people and has been eaten up by the global power establishment. How on earth are anti-war protesters going to make Iraq a democracy not to mention disarm him? The use of these weapons which killed 5000 Kurdish villagers and has gone unpunished and unmentioned by the anti war protesters. You do not mention their use in the Iran Iraq war. When will you realise the rights of the thousands of real Iraqis.
Ali, Kuwait Many of these very vocal protestors seem uninformed. A blind anti-war stance is not enough, what do they propose should be done? Sure, war is bad, but try living in Iraq. There is a big difference in Afghanistan, surely worth the few casualties for the freedom of 24 million. Go with your conscience Mr Blair, future generations of Iraqis will thank you.
Jens Vortsich, Titisee-Neustadt, Germany The Iraqi people are suffering from hunger and lack of public facilities. The US and its friends, like the UK, are trying to disarm Saddam Hussein. I think that at last they will really help the Iraqi people get rid of the great dictator of the century. There is no need for opposition and it doesn't work
JS, USA I get a kick out of you anti-war protesters, you want your cake and eat it too. This is a just war. To put Bush or Blair in the same category as Saddam tells me that the Iraqi propaganda machine is alive and well. The Europeans have no backbone, they would rather fight a friend that a butcher. And you people wonder why America does what it does! Yes, the U.N. is a joke, and the sooner we (U.S.) pulls out of it the better! P.S. Some of us have SERVED in the armed forces and do indeed know what sacrifice means!
Will O'Malley, Stone, UK The problem is not with the citizens of the world not voicing their opinion, this whole event has triggered more anti-war protests than any other war EVER. The people are speaking up, the news is covering it, there's no doubt about that. The problem is... the US and the UK are not listening!!! It seems like somewhere along the lines of time, we as world citizens lost the right have our majority voice. We can protest the war all we want but has it or will it ever do any good??? It sure doesn't seem like it. Maybe we as citizens should take the stance of the UK and US, we'll send hundreds of thousands of anti-war soldiers to the front lines of the White House and Sussex Avenue and tell them if they don't stop now then we'll never pay taxes again!!!! Now where does your war chest come from Bush and Blair???
Major (Retired) Chris Klein, UK Opposition will make a big difference, not now but after the war is over. The war will be quick and painless. The occupation will be a nightmare. During this occupation period, the "coalition of the willing" will have no choice but to commit more and more troops to maintain a pro-western regime, and fight against sporadic terrorism. Because a democratic Iraq will be an anti-American Iraq, a pro-western dictatorship will have to be maintained. Surely you Brits learned your lesson last time you occupied Iraq in 1918-1935?? I think that the fact this question is raised demonstrates the US's hypocrisy (as well as Britain's). They are speaking on behalf of democracy, yet ignore the overwhelming opposition from all around the world. It is about the way to stop terrorism, not about whether it should be stopped. The US's "brute force" will do nothing but increase global instability, and feed terrorism, rather than stop it. It was wonderful to see people, regular people all over the world rise against the wishes of their governments to protest against war. To all terrorist, I hope you can see the difference between regular people and the policies of their governments. It makes no sense to hurt regular people because of what their governments are doing or not doing. I don't think we can stop the war from happening now but I know I couldn't live with myself later on if I hadn't tried. By the way, I am not a pacifist and I would fully support a genuine international effort to remove Saddam and establish democracy in Iraq. If you believe for one minute that Bush and Blair intend for that to happen then you have no right to call the anti-war protestors naive! Does anyone think that a US-occupied Iraq will be allowed to have truly free and open elections? What if Islamic clerical fundamentalists, like Hezbollah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad won overwhelmingly? Would they be allowed to form the government? In a word no, as the US and Bush are eager to plant their flag in the region. However I do believe that the worldwide public opinion and realisation of the US foreign policy is becoming clear and an increasing number of people are beginning to resent and rise to the truth. Never underestimate the power of a peaceful person. In the meantime it will only give rise to fringe destructive organisations hell bent on destroying US and ally interests and in the process hitting innocent civilians.
Marc Lejoly, Brussels, Belgium I hope the do-gooder liberalists do not make a difference, this worthy and just war will be over quickly and will bring stability to the world and not just to Iraq. As an ex service-man (Royal Navy 20yrs) may I commend Tony Blair on your fortitude in doing what you know is right, in spite of all the opposition you are facing. You are in a better position to know the truth than any of us. I would like to point out to the protesters that sometimes you have to protect your sources of intelligence, the method, and the gatherers of it, by not saying too much until the time is right. Mr. Blair, you have my trust, but please show us your proof as soon as it is sensible.
Robert Barnes, USA There are many people in the US who hope that international opposition will prevent military action. US foreign policy is arrogant in its approach to international diplomacy and conflict resolution. It is disappointing to see support for this action in the British Government. I believe that public opposition to military action can make a difference and past history has taught us during the Vietnam War. Americans are hurt and angry over the 9/11 incident and we can't blame them. However, bombing Afghanistan where Bin Laden is hiding and bombing Iraq where children are dying are two different things to most of us. Most Americans knew that, and that is why people like Ken Nichols, a former US marine in the 1991 Gulf War, is organizing volunteers as human shields, as a deterrent against military strikes on Baghdad. People like them can make a difference and history will once again tell us the rights and wrongs of this unfortunate event. Forget these eurowimps. It's always the same story in Europe when you are up against the wall. This may be simple but it is hard. I'd like to ask a question... what happens if Iraq wins? I hope the opposition doesn't stop the war. I don't think some of the wars the US has fought were worth it (Vietnam, Korea), but I honestly believe this is the best for America's security. If Saddam is not taken out now, it will be near impossible if he ever gets a nuclear weapon. War simply has to happen from time to time.
Gercelain, UK Suggestions that opposition somehow helps Saddam Hussein or undermines our troops are missing the point. The right to protest is one of the freedoms that the US/UK claim to uphold. I have no illusions about what kind of man Hussein is, but I object because the war is certain to do more harm than good regarding the threat from terrorism. Dear anti-war campaigners, I know you mean well, but have you ever considered the Iraqi people suffering from Saddam Hussein's polices? OK you say war is not the answer, then please let me know what is. For your information, the Iraqi people would be happy for Saddam to be removed. If there is to be a war, then so be it! Of course public opposition can make a difference. That is why the leaders of France and Germany have come out against war. With even more protest from the public in Britain maybe Blair can be persuaded to change his mind.
Ewan, England The politicians take our votes but do not care about our opinions. There will be a war. Not because it is moral or just but because it suits Bush and Blair. I voted Labour in the last two elections but never again. The Tories should not hold their breaths because they are not getting my vote either. The only effect that opposition will have will be to undermine the morale of our armed forces and provide the Iraqi leadership with excellent propaganda material. Personally I think that once our troops are involved in the fighting then, regardless of whether I support the war or not, I will support them without hesitation.
Anthony Jones, UK It's about time the governments of US/UK listened not only to their own ALLIES but to the people they are supposed to represent! Both countries have become the ultimate nanny state, unyieldingly driving on because they always know best. Perhaps Turkey and the other countries in the reason might know a little more about the situation on the ground than countries hundreds of miles away. Regardless of the overwhelming pro-war opinions published here, the fact is that a large majority of Americans and an even larger majority of Britons oppose war without a second UN resolution. If George Bush and Tony Blair send our sons and daughters to their deaths nonetheless, it only proves that our "leaders" do not consider it necessary to follow the will of the people and that our "democracies" are a sham. The leaders of Germany and France should be commended for respecting the will of their people and taking a clear stand against the United States.
TH, UK Yes, an awful lot of people have died in this country to protect our right to influence the government's decisions. If that right is denied, they died in vain and we live in chains. Most people in the UK realise that this war is morally unjustifiable. If Tony Blair is willing to ignore such a majority, then he is a fool.
The people of Britain might not be able to stop Bush, but they have the power to act to prevent Blair following Bush down that particularly bloody, blind alley. Letter writing, lobbying, demonstrations and direct non-violent action will work, provided people are committed enough to the goal. I do believe public opposition will make all the difference. Politicians, ultimately, will want to save their jobs and will not want to give up power. I truly believe that if Blair ignored the overwhelming public opposition to war (according to every poll under the sun!) he will not be prime minister for very long. The problem is people do not make their voices heard loud enough for the politicians to listen. That's why anti-war demonstrations, such as the one being organised for 15 February in London are so important. We outnumber the politicians and ultimately they are accountable to us as we're the ones who put them in power. This Talking Point is now closed. Thank you for your contributions. |
See also: 31 Jan 03 | England 22 Jan 03 | Politics 22 Jan 03 | Europe 21 Jan 03 | Politics Internet links: The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet sites Top Talking Point stories now: Links to more Talking Point stories are at the foot of the page. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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