More than three hours of discussion on Friday ended without agreement as Tony Blair refused to concede more pay and the union refused to accept modernisation proposals.

The government's position is that the single way to get a pay rise of more than 4% is through making savings by changing work practices.

No fresh offers were anticipated and none were made in the negotiations and separate talks will be held on Monday.

Now the Conservatives are calling on the government to ban future strikes using current legislation.

Should firefighters be allowed to strike? Is modernisation the answer? What could the two sides offer each other to resolve the stand off?

This Talking Point is now closed. Read a selection of your comments below.

I have the utmost respect for our military

JP Davis, UK

I`ve just finished another 12 hour shift as a police officer escorting Green Goddesses. Having seen the armed forces at work I can only say that I have the utmost respect for our military and the way they have conducted themselves - their professionalism is beyond reproach. As for the FBU saying they couldn't handle the "highly technical" equipment the laughter of the guys was deafening - a �250million destroyer and �35milion tank is a little bit more technical than any fire engine! And what are these chaps doing when not on their 12 hour fire shifts? Practicing their weapon skills in readiness for war!
JP Davis, UK

Although I first disagreed with this strike I would just like to say the firefighters in Perth are a lovely bunch of men and women. My daughters (who are 4 and 3) made cakes at their grandma's house and took the cakes to them. They were so kind to them. Maybe they are worth it after all. Could our Mr Blair or Mr Brown say they would do the same thing????
Ruth, Scotland

We must encourage and embrace change

James, Scotland

I am an ambulance paramedic and in the past 12 months alone we have taken on a huge range of extra duties and responsibilities, with no additional salary increase. We accepted these extra duties because we wanted to provide our patients with the very best in pre-hospital care. Times are changing and the public perception and expectations of the emergency services are changing also. We must encourage and embrace change if it means the greater good for the people we serve. If this is 'modernisation' then so be it.
James, Scotland

The real problem seems to be that Andy Gilchrist has made outrageous promises to the fire fighters that he has no chance of delivering upon. Rather than back down and admit his own mistakes he now seems content to sit back and blame the government for not meeting his outrageous demands.
Andy, England

We had all this modernisation talk here in NZ, even after we had been doing all these extra new jobs in the Fire Service. What the underlying strains were, as they are in the UK, was less paid staff, less staff on fire engines, and more reliance on anybody who would do it for free (volunteers). It took a Labour government to stop that rot and steer the ship back to normality. No chance of that from a "Tory" like Blair.
Ian, New Zealand

It's time that we began to value people and their services fairly

Joel Zimelstern, UK

Who is more morally bankrupt? The Firefighters ransoming the safety of the country, or the Government pitting worthy cause against worthy cause? The amount the Government chooses to pay remains less than the true worth of all our essential services and asks us to argue the merits of the invaluable services that they provide. It's time that we began to value people and their services fairly. The Government was appointed to serve us and not bribe our collective conscious by pitting a nurse against teacher against a fireman. We need these services!
Joel Zimelstern, UK

According to the website of the Cumbria fire service the "principal responsibilities of Cumbria Fire Service is to help prevent the outbreak of fires occurring..." This Government is incapable of understanding that prevention of disease, fires, and crime, though unquantifiable, is more useful and time consuming than crisis management after the event. The army who now appears to be the Government's chief expert in fire management does not seem to be doing much in the way of fitting smoke alarms in old peoples' homes etc. No wonder they are "bored".
Alexa Wightman, England

Why do people keep comparing nurses to firemen? I have relatives in both jobs and fail to see the relationship. My sister works hard in nursing and deserves a pay rise but she admits that she doesn't put her life on the line like my uncle who's a fireman. I believe they both are dedicated professionals who should get a substantial pay rise and I wish the Government would get their noses out of the trough long enough to realise it!
Sally, UK

The Bain report calls for modernisation not only from the firefighters but also from the Government specifically in how they fund the Fire service. The Fire service should be funded for all the calls it attends not just Fires! If it was funded correctly then the Employers would have the funds to settle this dispute tomorrow and enough left over to tackle the issues about modernisation. The Government cannot shrug its own responsibilities with regard to modernisation.
John Doherty, UK

When Blair and Prescott talk about making the fire service more efficient by cutting the number of firefighters ('modernisation' in government parlance) they are missing the point entirely. The fire service is an insurance policy. We need enough firefighters to cope with peak demand (eg a major incident). If this means that some firefighters are sometimes under utilised, so be it. That's the price we must be prepared to pay for the first class service we get.
George, UK

It is just not true to say that firefighters won't modernise. They have been doing so for many years, and the service has changed dramatically since 1977 when the pay formula was agreed. What they won't do is compromise the quality of service provision. And we should all be truly grateful to them for that.
Anon, UK

I think this government should clarify what it means by "inflation busting double digit pay settlements". We hear today that a failing NHS is to receive a substantial pay increase for over one million of its workers, however this will not have an effect on the economic stability of the country. Yet according to the Audit Commission we have a high performing fire service consisting of 50,000 staff if given a pay deal in excess of 10% will bring the country to its knees. Explain.
Peter, UK

It's time they stopped playing on public emotions

David, UK

You only have to look at the picket lines to see that the firefighters need to change. The lack of women or people from the ethnic minorities is a highly visible indication of the firefighters' reluctance to accept change. It's time they stopped playing on public emotions and gave us the modern fire service that we deserve.
David, UK

When a firefighter, tired after too much overtime, crashes while trying to race to cover a fire in the next area who aren't working that night, do you think the government will accept "modernisation" was to blame? Fat chance - all they'll do is commission a report or two, and put it down to human error, while spending the savings they're making on waging war.
Martin, England, UK

Why does the FBU fear modernisation? It seems quite plain to me that it's not modernisation that's the issue, more the potential loss of their second jobs.
Alex White, UK

As a watch commander of 19 years in London I can assure you that my watch does not sit around. With the army only answering "filtered" fire calls they are not training, carrying out tests and checks on equipment, certifying buildings, giving lectures to local organisations, carrying out community fire safety initiatives, identifying at risk groups in the community, developing training strategies and a number of other tasks that we do day in day out. I could go on but there isn't enough space to list all the duties that we carry out. Yes there is a need for modernisation but let's also have some recognition for the "modernisation" that has already taken place to date for which we haven't been paid.
Steve, UK

The fire service has been fighting the government for the last few years on the modernisation proposal that is now on the table

Cheryl Rees, Wales

I am married to a fire control operator and can assure you that the fire service has been fighting the government for the last few years on the modernisation proposal that is now on the table. I also feel very angry when people are judging the firefighters' job on what they see on TV at the moment. The army are only turning out 20% of what the normal service has to deal with, as fires are being left to burn, flooding is being dealt with by alternative means. The firefighters don't just fight fires. They ensure our communities are safe every day.
Cheryl Rees, Wales

The FBU needs to step into the 21st century. Of course it has to be prepared to update and change. I work for a profit making firm in the private sector. I have had to constantly update my skills, take exams, change working practices and sign new employment contracts. Any suggestion that I should carry on methods of 25 years ago would be ludicrous.
Derek, England

The firepersons are only claiming what they have been denied these past years, along with other parts of the essential public services, eg nurses and police. The usual glib reply from Brown could have been anticipated. "They are holding the country up to ransom" - that's rubbish. Pay a fair wage Mr Brown, with built-in inflation factors.
Ron Williams, USA

We have one of the best and most efficient fire services in the world which can respond to an incident within minutes anywhere in the UK. If modernisation means attendance times similar to the police and ambulance service, then I would rather pay to keep things as they are. If I need their services I need them immediately, not in 20 or 30 minutes.
John Norris, UK

I don't feel that money is the real issue here

John, Wales

Why should the fire service be leaner? I'm not in favour of blanket wage increases, and I don't feel that money is the real issue here. The real issue here is to give firefighters the feeling that they are valued - so, pay them enough. Second, give them the tools to do the job. Third, create and maintain the best possible conditions for their employment. By reducing the number of firefighters, what do you get? Angry, overworked people who feel less and less motivated. We do this every time in Britain: Cut out the excess and become lean. Trouble is, there's a difference between mean and lean, and it's time we learnt it.
John, Wales

There is no doubt that this Tory (oops) Labour government could bludgeon the firefighters into submission and if they so wished over time cut jobs. However I wonder if an understaffed, underpaid, undervalued, underfunded and demoralised workforce could deliver the kind of fire service this country deserves.
Carol, UK

The outcome will show whether militant trade union leaders can be powerful again in the UK.
A. Szucs, Hungary

Since when is providing the community with less protection 'modernisation'?? Modernisation to me means better equipment, better training, a comprehensive system for responding to emergency calls, etc etc. Cutting back essential services is rather returning to the Dark Ages.
Arri London, EU/US

I find all the comments about firefighters becoming paramedics laughable. It took me five years of full-time and dedicated training to earn the title of paramedic. I don't consider that the fire service has the time or money to release their staff for the long and intensive training that I received.
A Paramedic, UK

Why do we need the same size fire service we had 50 years ago? Have 50 years of building and planning regulations, Fire Precautions Act and other legislation been a waste of time and money?
Les Leckie, UK

We have already broken our picket twice this week

Michael, Derbyshire, England

I am a retained firefighter and I have been appalled at the lack of media coverage of the retained firefighters. Are the public aware that there are almost as many retained firefighters in the country as full-time and that they make up 48% of the FBU membership? We are not recognised by the government as part-time workers, which means that we do not qualify for a part-time worker's pension under new legislation. It also means that we don't enjoy the same rate of pay as our wholetime colleagues. In fact we get paid �2 an hour less on the fire ground for doing exactly the same job. This is why I am in total support of this industrial action even though it makes me feel physically sick. But rest assured, if we are truly needed tonight or any other time we WILL be there. We have already broken our picket twice this week where there has been a possible loss of life.
Michael, Derbyshire, England

I am married to a firefighter. I actually don't think they should be striking, mainly because at the end of the day, it's the government that has all the power, and they will "modernise" what is already a fantastic, efficient, well-run, modern service - ie cut people's jobs. If "modernisation" means having less firefighters, there could be far worse problems in the future. The media and the government spin doctors are already doing their utmost to ruin the reputation of the fire service - and the firemen will end up with very little. I feel that the firefighters should rise above the government, call off the strike, but continue negotiating for a pay deal based on their expertise and knowledge of how the fire service actually works. In the meantime, I shall worry more than usual about how we pay the bills this month.
GK, Cambs, UK

I'm sick to death of hearing about public sector workers 'deserving' pay rises. I work in the private sector and have not had a pay rise for three years, partly due to massive increases in corporate taxation on my employers. Why should private sector employees pay for public sector pay rises? I'm a consultant and work with both public and private sector organisations. I have yet to come across public sector employees who work anywhere near as hard as private sector counterparts. When public sector employees put in the same hours that private sector workers do, then you can earn the same salaries!
Richard, UK

Is Mr Blair conceding that there is public sector underpayment, but the economy won't allow the increase?

Dave, UK

Blair's argument is "If we give the firefighters what they want, what do I say to the nurses, army and teachers?" Is Mr Blair conceding by this statement that he accepts that there is public sector underpayment, but the economy won't allow the increase? If that's the case then his economy is exploitative of peoples labour. Therefore he should be doing something about taxing people to pay for it.
Dave, UK

Our armed forces personnel are coping admirably with very little training and obsolete equipment. News footage last night showed a group of them sitting around looking bored to tears and waiting for something to happen. This intriguing glimpse into the working day of a firefighter makes me wonder if the pay increase demanded is really justifiable. Sorry striking firefighters - but I'm only going by what I saw!
Chris B, England

Although most of a firefighters time is not spent attending incidents they need to train to know how to deal with a variety of different calls. Do people really think they get these skills by playing pool and watching TV? Take a fighter pilot for example, do you really think they are out there bombing and shooting down planes all day? No, they train for the eventuality. So are they lazy as well?
Paul, England

Considering the military are coping so well, isn't it time the government considered a new fire service based initially on the military, but gradually taking on new fire personnel as they are trained? It would be modern, with modern working practices, could have a no-strike agreement and be union-free. Then the present striking workforce could be simply disposed of by redundancy and the present problem would be solved.
John Navrone, UK

The government want the cheapest fire service possible

Chris Holland, England

Simply put - The government want the cheapest fire service possible, the firefighters want the best fire service possible, somewhere in the middle is a compromise. It's not that there is no more money, it's just that Blair would rather spend it on something else.
Chris Holland, England

Although I think that the fire service does a fantastic job, and do deserve a pay rise. I do not agree with them striking. Neither do I agree with the way that this government has mismanaged the entire affair. All emergency service employees do jobs that few of us fully appreciate, and fewer still would be prepared to do. If paying them a decent wage is too difficult, look at alternatives. One of their issues is that they cannot afford to buy property, especially in the south east. How about letting them live in ex-forces married quarters?
Adam, UK

My husband works for the most modern and highly trained fire service in the world - the British fire service. The last audit commission report said they were 98% efficient. A pity the same can't be said of the government who awarded themselves a 40% pay rise with no modernisation. The fact that they want to cut jobs and the amount of fire cover available is no surprise. It's about time the government recognised just how efficient the fire service is and how many lives they save. They are not being greedy. They just want a decent salary and some recognition for the excellent service that they provide. I would be happy to pay an extra few pounds on my council tax to reward them.
Helen, Wales

Our firemen are paid more than those in Germany and France... and in France they are not allowed to work part time. In Germany they are not allowed to strike. Their pay is also comparable to that of New York firefighters. Furthermore, construction workers, police and fishermen are also more likely to be killed or injured than firemen. Finally, we are in a low inflation economy at present, it is ludicrous to talk of hyper inflation wage settlements in an era of low inflation. In this context I believe that the present union claims are grossly excessive.
Darryl, England

People working in industry have had to continuously modernise to stay in business

John M, UK

What's wrong with modernisation? People working in industry have had to continuously modernise to stay in business and keep their jobs. The firemen expect to be handed totally unrealistic pay awards for no return. If their job is so bad and so poorly paid, why don't the FBU publish the amount of firemen who leave the service because of the pay and conditions each year?
John M, UK

I can see both sides of the problem. On one side, �21,000 is a pitiful amount of money to be paying someone with so much experience and who does such a valued job. On the other hand, they cannot expect to demand such a huge increase in pay immediately. Of course they deserve it - they should be given the respect they deserve from the government. But the firefighters cannot expect the country to pay for it tomorrow. I believe the only way to modernise the fire brigade, as well as ALL public sector jobs is to give them ALL the same amount of pay.
Paul Hardwick, England

I am a retained firefighter having served my station for 30 years. I did not strike the last time as I did not want to let my community down, but I feel disgusted about the letters saying we're not worth the money. I would like them to ask anybody who has been rescued by firefighters what they are worth. Remember you may need us to help you and when Mr Blair has shut down your nearest fire station don't complain we let you down.
Coling Gardener, North Somerset

I think the strike is wholly unjustified. What would happen to inflation, interest rates, and taxation if all the other public services were to demand and receive a 40% rise? They aren't striving for the workers they are striving for themselves. As it goes on it seems more and more clear that modernisation could pay for substantial increases. But they don't want this because it would likely mean job cuts. They want the rise without the modernisation and the tax payer can bankroll the inefficiency.
Joe, UK

You only have to look at how well the army is coping to realise that the service is crying out for modernisation

Steve, UK

Many people are talking almost as if we don't pay full time firefighters anything at all! They've been offered 4% with no strings, which is a lot more than most employees in commerce and industry will get. And the arguments about what they do when they're not at a fire are completely facile: the fact is, whether they sleep, play snooker, knit, train every spare moment they get, the job is only dangerous sometimes. Even most fires aren't particularly dangerous if you know what you're doing. You only have to look at how well the army is coping to realise that the service is crying out for modernisation.
Steve, UK

Most of the modernisation agenda is already implemented in various parts of the UK. West Yorks already have a number of brigades with whole-time and retained crews together. Many would be happy to work limited voluntary overtime, but no one is prepared to see cuts which would lead to reductions in staffing levels, fire stations closing at night and less fire cover for the public. This is not modernisation, it is cuts.
Sean, Leeds, UK

I would like to hear what restructuring and modernisation the MPs had to do before they were allowed a 41% pay rise. I also know who I would rather have on the other end of a phone in an emergency, our underpaid firemen or our overpaid underworked politicians. No contest really. Tony and John: stop bleating and pay the firemen the 16% with no strings and justify your high salaries and position for once.
Melvin, England

I wonder what Tony Blair and his government's stance would be on the situation if they were in opposition?
Andrew, UK

Andrew wonders what Mr Blair's attitude would be if Labour were in opposition. The situation would not have arisen - the firemen only go on strike when the Tories aren't in power.
Nigel Atkinson, UK

Give them whatever they want at what cost? This is totally unrealistic, they do a great job but, so do so many other support and essential services. Are they so badly rewarded ? The fireman I saw on the news tonight seemed very reluctant to be drawn over their overtime benefits. It would be lovely to be able to give everybody the type of money they may deserve for their labours but, how is it all going to be financed?
John McDonnell, Wales

The role of the firefighter has changed considerably over the years

Paul Wilkinson, England

The role of the firefighter has changed considerably over the years. We are no longer just squirting water on fires. We are now one of the best value, highly trained public services who will be at an emergency within minutes, whenever you call, whatever your crisis, yet we are still only funded for putting out fires. The comparisons of firefighters' wages, and all other workers, can be endless. People have even chose to look at other countries to compare. I am bewildered as to why, as it is a pointless exercise. The case can be both strengthened or weakened by somebody with the appropriate statistics. However, it should be borne in mind that the �30k asked for by firefighters is as a result of two independent reviews into the job we do, and the pay we receive, not a greedy fire fighter deciding he wants extra cash for a new snooker cue.
Paul Wilkinson, England

Whilst I do support a pay claim - the claim is extremely unrealistic and they simply do not seem to understand the implications. No government could possibly agree to this. Sadly, Andy Gilchrist does them no favours and I fear things can only get worse. My message? You had my support guys - but now you are losing it! Go back to work and wake up to the real world!
Pete, England

Although we support the firefighters, feel sorry for us soldiers, peacekeeping in Kosovo, burning cattle in Yorkshire, war fighting in Afghanistan, fire fighting in Cambridge, yet most of the private soldiers on the Green Goddesses are on income support, we don't expect the firefighters to do our job, but we get paid less to do their job!
Rafe Ferrante, UK

I am disgusted with Mr Blair. The fact that our soldiers are poorly paid and equipped is not an example of how to run a modern and effective fire service. Of course they are doing the best they can, that it what they have to do under orders. But they should not be used as a political football!
Rob Young, UK

Regarding the government's "responsible attitude" to the public purse - how come they poured billions into the temporary tent at Greenwich with scant regard for economy, public opinion or commonsense?
Mark Pullen, UK

At 80 years of age I remember the supreme effort given by the fire fighters during WWII. Let's not forget those times when most of you youngsters were cowering in your shelters. Good luck firemen!
John Phillips, UK Expat in Canada

I really think the firefighters' strike is getting out of hand they are an essential service and should not be in a position to strike it feels as if they are holding the country to ransom - what next the doctors or paramedics etc? They knew the pay and conditions when they entered the job if they don't like it then leave as there are hundreds of people who are prepared to do the job with the present pay and conditions.
Glenn, UK

Initially I felt a 40% pay claim was ridiculous. But after I read what a firefighter earns per year, I feel a 16% pay rise is reasonable. Also am I the only one who thinks modernisation really means fewer fire fighters and less fire engines on our streets? I think the fire brigade are the only emergency service you can guarantee will be with you in literally a few minutes - this is the case where I live anyway. From where I see it firefighters have embraced change and I have a funny feeling that Mr Blair is trying to set this union up as an example to other public sector workers.
Michael, UK

I have voted Labour all my life but am utterly appalled by the government's shameful treatment of these men and women who risk their lives for us every day. Mr Blair and the other MPs were quick enough to award themselves 40% but are trying to vilify firefighters who would accept 16%. If this is not sorted out properly I will never vote for them again.
David, Scotland

My view of the firefighters is changing

Steve Wood, England

Although I object to the strike, my view of the firefighters is changing. A couple of nights ago I heard that our local service broke their strike to go and help in an RTA. And others have gone to the aid of the armed forces. To the firefighters that are on strike: If there are lives at risk please leave your lines and go help. You are trained for this, no matter how committed the armed forces are they don't have the required training, and I'm sure it's costing lives. Let the property burn, they can be replaced, human life can't!
Steve Wood, Crawley, England

A post-doctoral scientist working on cancer research earns the same wage as the firemen do currently. Who will save more lives? The scientist will have spent at least seven years gaining a degree and a doctorate without pay. The firemen in France earn far less and are all trained paramedics. This is too much. I hear very few horns being sounded as the cars pass the picket line. There is no public support for the wage claim. The government is right to stick to the budget plans that have placed this country on a sound economic footing. It is unaffordable and the job is not worth it.
Kenneth, Scotland

I am shocked by firefighters pretending that they cannot afford to eat and they are on poverty pay. Thousands of people earn less than �10,000 a year. Real poverty is seen in the developing world not here. Firefighters should be trained like the French as paramedics and not be allowed to strike. If they truly cared about peoples' lives they would not mind this. This is a totally selfish strike with no thought to who will suffer if inflation rises: those with fixed incomes like the pensioners. Negotiate like everyone else has to.
Carole , England

The professionalism shown by HM forces has put the firefighters to shame.

Andy, UK

The professionalism shown by HM forces has put the firefighters to shame. Most of the armed service personnel earn considerably less than the firefighters, for doing a much more dangerous job. And for firefighters to compare themselves to teachers and health professionals is ridiculous. These groups of people spend years training and receive no or little money, throughout the entirety of their training period. The firefighters have a great job and should get on with doing it.
Andy, UK

My best mate, who has nearly been killed twice in the last 11 years, does this job because he wants to. He could do many other jobs, which pay more as he has many qualifications. After 11 years of service he earns just over �21,000. He lives in a Surrey where he cannot even afford a one-bedroom flat. Every month he has nearly �200 taken out of his salary for his pension. He has to work another three days a week to make ends meet. The Surrey Fire Brigade looks after 2.5 million people and with only with approx 110 firefighters on duty at one time. It would cost only 41p per household per week to meet this pay rise.
Daren, UK

I would like to point out that, until the government intervened, the unions and the employers were at the negotiating table. The government were not. If they were going to veto any agreement then they should have had appropriate ministers present. It's rather hypocritical to knock the unions and employers when you haven�t even bothered to participate.
Graham, England

For a firefighter with anything from five to fifteen years experience to be earning a mere �21,500 is laughable. The amount of training and technical knowledge required by a modern fire fighter seems to be lost on the government and newspaper editors. The days of simply tackling fires with water are long gone. Traffic accidents, chemical spillages, bio-hazards not to mention education (i.e. fire safety) are all part of what is required of a modern firefighter. Surely these people deserve a professional salary.
Nial, UK

We need to evaluate what services are the greatest priority

Ray Turner, Hants

The government claims it cannot afford the firefighters 16% pay rise, but money could easily be found by reducing the number of hangers-on in central government - i.e. spin-doctors, political advisors, consultants and the like. Modernisation, cost-saving, call it what you will, should actually cover the whole of government rather than being confined to one service, with any savings directed to where the money will be best spent. So as a nation, we need to evaluate what services are the greatest priority. The firefighters are pretty high up my list. They are certainly worth �25k which (if I remember the figures correctly) is only a little more than the national average salary.
Ray Turner, Hants

A perfect solution to under-funding in the Fire Service; privatise it. Then, after the public have put up with a declining service for four or five years and it starts to go bankrupt the government can bail it out with a huge cheque (as they have done with Railtrack and British Energy) and we, the taxpayers, can pick up the bill again.
Robin Mainstone, UK

The firefighters typify all that has become wrong in today's society - greed, selfishness, arrogance, uncaring and disloyal. There are many thousands of people who work much harder than firefighters and in equally hazardous jobs for a much lower income. A pay award of anything over the inflation rate will bring the whole of the public sector into conflict as they will all demand hefty pay rises too.
Alan, UK

Let no one be in any doubt - modernisation is the new government word for cuts. Support your firefighters or do not complain when your local fire station is closed down or shut at night.
John Smythe, UK

The firefighters are undervalued, but I cannot agree with their strike action. It is heartening to see that many are helping where lives are at risk - they do much more for their cause. But - why has their union allowed the situation to get to this point? Surely if they'd asked for a smaller amount years ago and ensured a satisfactory increment on a regular basis, the country would not be in this state now. North Yorkshire, the largest county in England has only nine Green Goddesses available - crazy or what?
Alex, North Yorkshire, UK

Since September 11th I'm sure the firemen have been told how important they are and how they will be the frontline defence in a terrorist incident. Local authorities have taken on the funding of idealistic functions that have greatly added to the costs of running local government such as Race Equality, Motorbility and many, many more. This has led to a loss of focus on the true definition of essential services. Rising cost of living due to the house inflation has added to "ordinary citizens" cost of living. The firefighters' strike is the effect of these items and others. The cause? Bad management and short term memories from enthusiastic but never the less amateur representatives.
Richard Bell, England

In low pay areas of the UK young people already see the fire fighter profession as a way to get a decent wage doing a job they love with no fear of redundancy. People are working hard in Britain - many of us on a lot less than a new recruit in the fire service. I guess we are all looking at our own communities while we decide where we stand on this. A little food for thought from the south west - each summer hundreds of children and adults are rescued by individuals who earn little more than basic wage - beach lifeguards. A fisherman risks his life to put food on our table and what do you think a lifeboat man is worth?
Terry, UK

I am sick to death of the bad press that the firefighters have been subjected to

Audrey, UK

I am sick to death of the bad press that the firefighters have been subjected to by the media. They work 48 hours in five days. The rest of us do 35 hours in five days. They do not all have other jobs. Even if they did, so what!? Nurses, doctors, plumbers, joiners, electricians and other tradesmen all have other jobs. If a firefighter does have another job it is in their own free time. Additionally, unlike most workers, a firefighter works seven weekends in eight. They are only asking for a decent pay which is what the review body has said they are worth.
Audrey, UK

No matter how many times I hear all the arguments that firefighters deserve what they ask for, I can't stop wondering - if firefighters believe they were underpaid, why did they have to wait until their salaries fell 40% below their expectations? Even a pay rise of 16%, compared to an inflation of 2% last year, can raise eyebrows. Was their trade union leadership sleeping in the last decade?
James, UK

When are the negotiations going to restart? Do we really have to wait for the strikers to go back to work before trying to sort out the mess? We need a government that is prepared to assist in the solution of the problem, not one that stands on the side lines pouring petrol on the flames. What's happened to all those things that New Labour stand for?
Stuart Andrew, England

Over the past few years, modernisation has actually been taking place.

Ken Wilson, Tyne & Wear

One of the biggest problems we as firefighters are up against, is the plethora of misconceptions people seem to have about our job, and this "modernisation" agenda. Most people have a rough idea that we attend fires, and rescue people from them, and from road accidents. However, a lot of people are chirping on about what we do on duty when we are not fighting fires, "In bed all night", "drinking cups of tea", "playing snooker". If people realised what actually goes on behind the scenes, they would begin to see that, over the past few years, modernisation has actually been taking place. We check and maintain equipment, train for specific types of incident, carry out fire safety checks, carry out community fire safety on a regular and frequent basis. Our issue is that we should get a starting wage to reflect those issues now, without "strings". Finally, talking about money, a lot of people are under the misconception that we get paid extra for working nights and weekends. I wish we did, then maybe we wouldn't be in this predicament.
Ken Wilson, Tyne & Wear, UK

Back in 1979 the normal avenue for pay negotiation had become the threat of Strike action. Union bosses became powerful if they could command the loyalty of union members to bring the country to its knees. The country crawled from one disruptive dispute to another. The lack of certainty in public services drove the population to look towards the private sector for reliable services. It took about a decade of unpleasant industrial conflict and high unemployment under Mrs. Thatcher to change attitudes and to arrive at a more settled and realistic method for pay negotiation. Those needing higher salaries moved to other jobs, recruitment and pay rises followed where there were shortages. The Government has lost its grip and if we give the FBU what they are demanding or even a good fraction of it then everyone will want more. The genie will be out of the bottle.
Tony Geater, UK

As a serving fighter of 15 years I do not believe it wrong to ask for a wage that reflects the job we do. The Labour research council spent a long time looking at our job and came up with �30k, not the firefighters. That�s the same department who the government asked for their pay review and readily accepted a 40% pay award, without the public having any say. They also modernised their working conditions by reducing their working week to 35 hours and increasing their pensions by 25%. They have an agenda to cut the fire service under the guise of modernisation. They have done this to the health service, the police and the ambulance service and look at the state they're in! I believe the public are behind us, visit any picket line and witness for yourselves.
Ian, England

May I take this opportunity to correct a certain amount of ill informed people who are contributing to this discussion. Whilst there may be a waiting list for Firefighters jobs, these are initial applications. Once the recruitment starts, out of 30 possible candidates, one maybe two will actually get through. Remember, there is a strict policy on health and fitness standards to enable someone to join the fire service.
Firefighter (Merseyside), England

So only one or two out of every 25 applicants makes the grade to be a firefighter - with 40 or so applicants for each vacancy that's still more supply than demand.
Martin C, UK

I am amazed that the support for the firefighters hasn't been stronger

Tania Crozier, Britain

As an outsider I am amazed that the support for the firefighters hasn't been stronger. They did have a 40% claim but had been about to agree to 16% (less for senior staff) when the government pulled the plug. I watched this unfold on BBC News 24, yet the truth of it seems to have been hidden by the media since. The present strike is for the 16% DEAL they had negotiated with their employers, which John Prescott stopped. What else can they and their employers do? I work for a fire safety company and fully appreciate the work of the fire service, they have been consistently praised by government reports, even being described as the best performing, most modernising two years ago, what has happened?
Tania Crozier, Britain

Yes, firefighters are right to strike. It is about time people stood up to this pompous and arrogant government. Why throw billions into the Blair/Bush killing machine when a fraction of that could resolve the dispute and in fact save many more lives?
Kal, England

These disputes should be settled by the taxpayer not the government. It is after all, the tax payer who will need to cough up. I wonder how many of these so-called supporters of the firefighters will scowl when they're asked for a cheque to pay for the extra pay? Not many I would guess! Let's face it, you've more chance of being hurt being a window cleaner than a firefighter. Having said that, I personally blame the union leaders who are militant bunch who grasp every opportunity they can to upset the establishment. Blair must tackle this resurgent union power before things get out of hand.
Paul, UK

I love my job and going on strike makes me physically sick

Jon, UK

So just because you start a job on a certain wage you have to accept it for the rest of you career? I joined the service in January because I wanted to do the job, I felt then the pay was low but I was unaware of just how much would be asked of me for the money. I spent sixteen weeks residential training learning everything from building construction, hydraulics, electricity, chemistry, fire legislation, fire safety, breathing apparatus, RTA procedures... the list goes on. I've taken 12 written exams and 4 practical exams. Every time I'm on duty my watch and I do at least two or three fire safety visits to schools or clubs. Since being on station from May I've had to pull one guy out of his car who'd committed suicide, seen one man crushed to death under a lorry and helped put out several house fires to name but a few incidents. We are prepared to compromise on our pay rise but the government don't seem to understand the word. I love my job and going on strike makes me physically sick, but if Tony Blair cared a little more about this country and its people rather than jetting off on tax payers money this would have been resolved back in the summer.
Jon, UK

The government should bust the union, plain and simple. If the firefighters were as dedicated and cared a bit about public safety during this time of uncertainty they would go back to work and fight this fight another day. This is just another example of union power being used against the society they pretend to protect. It could not possibly have anything to do with tying up the military during this time of crises, could it?
John Gilbert, USA

Tonight I witnessed the crews of two green goddesses trying their best to get their act together

Muiris, Wales

A few weeks ago the house next door went on fire and I went in and helped put it out and get the people out. It was scary and I was glad when the fire brigade got here - they were professional and wonderful. Tonight I witnessed the crews of two green goddesses trying their best to get their act together on what turned out to be a false alarm. What struck me was the difference in the speed with which they got ready once they were here - the firemen took a very small time where as the soldiers seemed to spend ages getting themselves sorted out - I don't blame them they aren't trained for it whereas Firemen are!
Muiris, Wales

The strike is definitely down to the Firemen. There is always a choice. The reason the firemen will not accept any changes in their working practices would mean less free time to do their second jobs. It would have to be a huge pay rise to make up for the loss of money from a second job. As a pensioner managing on very little money, I think that to ask for �30,000 is really greedy. Lots of people in public services have to risk their lives. The police, every member of our armed forces, even paramedics, who may have to risk serious illness from treating people outside of hospital conditions. The risk to firemen with all their modern equipment and intensive training, does mean that the risks are cut to a minimum. Certainly they should have more money, but tied in with more economical ways of running the job. I should have thought that the greater risk to life came from men trying to work two jobs and being very tired.
Yvonne Lander, England

They've cost people their lives. Doesn't that say more than all the words on this page?
Ben Brown, UK

40% would put them on a par with US firefighters.

Andy

Look to the USA for how much the fireman does. Can you put a price on that? What if a 9/11 happened during the strike? Who would be the first on the scene? Not the army, but the fire fighters on strike. Is 40% too much? That would put them on a par with US firefighters. How should it be funded? OK give them 30% and fund it with a 50% drop in the pay for MPs after all, they don't want to take their heads out of the clouds to look at the real world so lets take their pay out of the clouds. And while you are at it, give the nurses 40% and the teachers 25%. And treat ambulance staff like firefighters, 40%.
Andy, ex UK

I am 60 next year and semi-retired on a small pension that will only increase with inflation. I have a part-time job caring for the disabled which pays less than �6 per hour while I wait for a second pension which may not pay out. I am not complaining, just getting on with it. Firefighters should do the same instead of using lives as a bargaining chip.
Vernon Moyse, UK

The essential nature of my job is to put myself at risk for the benefit of others, how many other jobs are like this? I deserve a wage that prevents me from claiming Working Families tax credit, and my wife and two children deserve a decent pension should I not make it home one night.
Firefighter, Merseyside, UK

These guys are a disgrace and entirely negligent to their chosen profession. I know they perform a vital service but so do millions of other people. They are greedy and with the waiting lists of people wanting to join the fire service, all striking fire-personnel should be sacked and new recruits taken on. That will teach them for being so greedy. Manslaughter charges should be brought against them too for any deaths arising from their action
Andy, England

Is �30k worth more lives?

Ady, UK

I believe that a 40% pay rise will never be agreed upon. Firefighters are fully aware of the pay scales before they even become a firefighter through their initial selection procedure. Other emergency services staff do not get �30k either and I work for one of them. We know the guys do a dangerous job, but 40% is unrealistic. Striking I believe will cost more lives, is �30k worth that? 16% - �25k - is what other men and woman at the equivalent level earn this so why not them? And they do not get the luxury of going to bed on night shifts!
Ady, UK

40% sounds like such a lot, but when it works out at an extra two pounds an hour it puts it into perspective. By refusing to allow serious offers to be put on the negotiating table they are giving out the signal to all our public sector workers, the backbone of our country, that they don't matter. That hardly instils trust in our chosen representatives.
Alison, England

I wish that I got paid �25,000 a year to sleep for three days a week. Ok, so that's not exactly true, they provide an essential service, but let's not kid ourselves that their 45 hour working week is spent doing anywhere near the amount of labour a nurse, teacher or policeman would do in 45 hours. These guys need a reality check!
Ben, London, UK

It is now time for legislation to make any strike action which places the lives of people at risk a criminal offence and punishable. The firefighters do deserve more money but holding the government and the people of this country ransom is clearly out of order.
TW Williams, England

I presume that those who believe the firefighters deserve a large pay rise without strings are keen to see (a) wage inflation becoming a problem (b) large interest and mortgage rate increases and/or (c) the return of a Tory government. as
Jim Millington, UK