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| Monday, 19 February, 2001, 08:38 GMT Sharon's victory: What next? ![]() Select the link below to watch Talking Point On Air ![]() Ariel Sharon is to become Israel's next prime minister. Mr Sharon has won a landslide victory over the incumbent Prime Minister, Ehud Barak. Israelis who voted for Ariel Sharon want him to get tough with the Palestinians and bring to an end the months of violence. Palestinians know that dealing with the right-winger will be more difficult than with Mr Barak. Their leaders have vowed to intensify their uprising. What hope is there for any progress in the peace process and an end to the violence now that Ariel Sharon is taking over the reins of power in Israel? We were debating this issue on our global phone-in programme "Talking Point on Air". Robin Lustig was joined by Likud MP Dr. Yuval Steinitz live from Jerusalem. This Talking Point is now closed. A selection of your comments are posted below.
Morris, UK I can't stand Sharon and I am not happy he is my PM - but I don't think the Palestinians have a right to complain because 1) they put him there and 2) Arafat's hands are equally soaked with blood. Maybe one day we'll BOTH be mature enough to choose leaders on the basis of their peace-making, not their war-mongering. The biggest obstacle to the peace process is not sovereignty over Jerusalem: it's the question of the 'right of return'. Today's modern Israeli 'democracy' discriminates against Palestinians by giving Jews around the world "The Right of Return": the right to become citizens of Israel, yet refuses to give that option to Palestinians who were forced out of their homes during the last several wars. Israelis want a homeland, and I can understand that. But why force out other peoples from lands that they've lived in for thousands of years? The Jews can return, but do it in a peaceful way. Occupy lands that aren't owned by others, and create a true democratic system where all peoples - Jews, Palestinians, etc., can freely choose who rules them. But, of course, most Israelis are only interested in forming a Jewish country, and that's why we have all this trouble now. Israel made peace with Egypt and Jordan, so it's not Israel's lack of wanting peace that has brought us to this point. Instead, it's the Palestinian's lack of desire to stop the hate and killing and lack of will to accept peace with Israel. They had the chance but showed their true colours. Now, Israel will defend itself, like any other country facing terrorism. We have lots of legal and illegal Hispanics here in Southern California with a percentage more than 55% of the total population. How about one day they declare Southern California to be their own separate country basing that movement on the fact that it belonged to their ancestors (the Spaniards) way before the Americans dwelled it!? How would the world react to that? Most importantly, how would the Southern Californians and the other Americans react to that? Why did the world go haywire when Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1991? According to Iraq, Kuwait was part of it for hundreds and hundreds of years! You might argue that actions like that are things of the past (18th and 19th centuries). But did it ever occur to you that Israel was formed by force just only 53 years back! The Arabs resent the fact that Israel was imposed on them. They resent the fact that during its unwelcome formation, it displaced millions of Arabs. They resent its arrogance regarding the Jerusalem issue.
Benjy, Oxford, UK The Israelis tried to achieve peace by giving: Barak had given the Palestinians more then anyone else before him and in response he got riots. That's because he showed himself weak and Arafat grabbed on to that in split second. Well, Israel has tried to approach the problem from the left (i.e. by giving) and fail utterly, they'll now try to approach it from the right. Good luck! My personal belief, is that, no peace will be achieved as long as Arafat is in charge. Another example of the total detachment from reality by Michael, Jerusalem, Israel - saying the Palestinians should stop the violence. A few questions to put to people who refuse to look reality in the face: Who has a trained army shooting at Palestinians? Who has used rockets, missiles and helicopters against the Palestinians? Who is continually and systematically destroying (bulldozing) Palestinians homes and olive trees? Ariel Sharon is not interested in peace, in fact his agenda is to derail the peace process and start another war with its Arab neighbours, that is the only way Israel can expand its current territory. By starting another war Israel would again gain sympathy from the West who has becoming frustrated with Israel's human rights and undignified arrogance to accept peace with the Palestinians. Yasser Arafat is in fact a puppet of Israel that is the reason he is being jerked around. It is time Palestinian elect a moral leader who is sincere in resolving the issue rather then pretending to be important. As far as peace in the Middle East for now it is dead and a very difficult time is ahead because no matter what Palestinian agree to Sharon will not accept. Your comments since the programme
John Megiddo, South Africa Throwing stone at Israelis army will not bring peace whatsoever, and will not offer places like Gaza and others cities being offered by Israel former PM. I believe continuing violence against Israel, under Mr. Sharon will result in a big crisis in the region. I'd like to point out to Dennis Taylor that Israel did not steal Arab land with force. The Arab countries surrounding Israel have declared war on Israel a number of times (5 or 6) and Israel has won all these wars taking land in the process. Each time that I hear experts, politicians and commentators thrash around the Arab/Israeli conflict I am struck by the naivety of the discussion. Fear has given the state of Israel its raison d'etre and aggressive arrogance its style of diplomacy. The Palestinians have been caught between the disinterest of the Arab world at large, the powerful American pro-Israeli lobby and the hypocracy of the Western world. Both the Israelis and Palestinians are engaged in a tribal deadlock which has been smeared over with the sophistication of the modern world. To resolve this deadlock they have both need to recognise whilst their mutual detestation and suspicion may give them identity it is not, and never will permit them to rise above brutality and death.
It is easy to say that the Palestinians have many countries where they are considered 'brothers', (although they are not treated very brotherly by them), but to say they do not have a homeland is wrong. And who is responsible? Who should make more effort to right the wrongs? The British and the French, who rewarded their allies against the Turks by establishing Jordan and Iraq, without any real consideration for the indigenous population. What happened to the Jews in Europe was a separate subject. But had the Allies used more foresight, the Israeli/Palestinian clash could perhaps have at least been side-stepped. Stephen Pohlmann UK/Tel Aviv We are only blaming people on both sides who are at fault. I want to agree with Ramesh from Australia & Betty from Israel:
Derek, Beit Shemesh Calling Israel a democracy is a joke. How can a country claim to be a democracy when a large part of its populace has been forced out on gun-point, not allowed to return home and denied their right to vote just because they have a different opinion or ethnicity? Ariel Sharon is a war Criminal by anyone's standards, why is the US (and the UK) trying to bring to justice one war criminal (Slobodan Milosovic) while shaking hands with another? Surely a criminal is a criminal?
Israel won't go away and die, and nobody should expect us to. And if the Palestinians want to be regarded as victims, they should stop the violence, and sit down to talk. Michael, Jerusalem, Israel Although I don't buy the argument that Israel belongs to the Jews, just because it says so in a book (by that rationale, today's Italians can lay claim to the rest of Europe; and Native Americans own the US), the fact of the matter is that Israel exists and has to be dealt with. All Arab nations and communities need to accept this reality ... Israel is not going to go away! Similarly, the Israelis need to understand that they simply cannot have it all their own way ... the Palestinians are real people with real needs and aspirations who deserve equal opportunity to excel and develop.
B Cope, Manchester UK Arafat missed a golden opportunity. The more Barak conceded the more Arafat wanted. It will be some time before Israel can reach such a state of negotiation again. Your comments during the programme I would like to point to a different perspective: what has been happening to all the money being given to the Palestinians by the West? The standards of living of the Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank is just as abominable as before and the leadership is getting fat. No wonder there is rebellion in the street, except that it is wrongfully being fanned towards what is their considered traditional enemy - Israel.
Yoosaf, India Wow! So many people, few of which are Israelis, have so much to say about this. The truth is, a lot of Israelis didn't even vote, some were protesting, some couldn't decide, some can't really see the deference, Sharon, Barak, that isn't the problem. It doesn't matter who will lead Israel in the next 4 years, what matters is that we really want to live in peace, only peace takes at least 2 partners . . . We just don't have a partner, as it seems Ultimately Israel would have to give the Arab land back as per the requirements of U.N resolutions. History shows when 12 year old boys start dying for a right cause, they can never be defeated. Israel must understand this.
Miles Fusco Mr. Sharon was freely elected by Israeli people as PM and he will remain there as their leader as long as they want him. Can there really be peace? Lets look at the entire scenario - on the one hand we have corrupt officials on the Palestinian side, who have been known to be siphoning off millions from the various charities ref the various reports in the News Week and other reputed magazines, and on the other a leader who's known to be a hard hitting general. What a combination. Your comments before we went ON AIR Sharon's presence alone is enough to spur further violence. Israel voted for this man so be it. It is their right to do so. Let them do this without the $10 Billion per year that the state of Israel receives from the American taxpayer. My tax dollars do not need to go to hypocrites. Sharon is a throwback to an era when leaders pursued personal visions of glory, instead of national policy. Sharon bears a strong resemblance to medieval kings, pursuing their own tiny slice of power at the expense of their subjects. It's a pity that he was chosen to lead a modern nuclear power, with the title 'Prime Minister.' He would be more appropriately titled 'Caesar.' I seems to me that Sharon is the wrong man for this job to much of a hawk it seems that the Arab community will not like it.
Paul, Gaborone, Botswana What everyone conveniently forgets is that the Palestinians were party to their own misfortune, preferring in 1948 to await the outcome of the Arab invasion in refugee camps than settle down and work with the Israelis. It is also convenient to call Sharon a war criminal when he has not in any case been indicted for war crimes. The '82 massacres were not carried out by him but by Lebanese phalangist militias. His resignation was simply an acceptance of indirect responsibility as defence minister. I personally do not believe Sharon wants peace but then neither does Arafat. Why else would you allow kids to throw stones at soldiers or refuse to negotiate with Barak? Ariel Sharon has done some things which might define him as a war criminal. So has Arafat. But he is a pragmatic politician, and I don't believe he wants a war with the Arab world. He will, like Netanyahu, try to slow down the peace process. Let us remember that perhaps the biggest shift in Israeli politics in past years is that Likud has become pro-peace. The fact that Ariel Sharon would run a campaign as a Likud candidate on the basis of bringing peace is in itself revolutionary and signifies that though the PM is a right-winger, the momentum of the Israel policy has a leftward bend and will thus force Sharon to form a NUG if he wishes to make it until the end of the year.
Ahmed, Madison, USA Jerusalem belongs to all three religions. Jews keep referring that Jerusalem is all theirs in its entirety. The Torah, the Bible, and Koran tell that Jerusalem is all of ours, yet the argument for the peace process was that occupied territories after the illegal acquisition in the six day war, the UN resolution 242 of 1967 says all captured lands in the six day war must be returned. Israel ignored it as well as other UN resolutions. This brings us to Mr. Sharon. I have nothing against visiting a holy site, but Mr. Sharon isn't just any ordinary Jew, he was the cause of these violent uprisings. Mr Sharon is not going to be easily accepted by Arabs, until he proves that he is after peace. It's been a long road of violence, and I believe that both Arabs and Israelis are tired of war, and they need to make peace; however, the Israelis are hard on giving Moslems the part of the holy land that belongs to them and the whole mess ends. So if Mr. Sharon knows what's good for him, he'll pursue the peace other wise WAR.
S. D. Yana Davis, Cape Girardeau USA Israelis on this forum are very keen to talk about their rights. Don't the Palestinians have rights too ? Their rights have been trampled on for the last 50 years while the international community stood by, and indeed armed and financed their oppressor. Finally they have realised that our governments aren't going to do anything for them. Finally they have stood up for themselves, and are paying a terrible price for their freedom - They deserve our support. I am sympathetic to the Israeli people, and I do wish them a future of peace and prosperity. But I ask you to please realise that you cannot be occupiers and demand peace from the people you occupy. Also your conflict has caused us, the Lebanese, to be occupied by the Syrian army. So non of us here in the Middle East is experiencing true freedom. Whether we are Christian, Jewish , or Moslem, we all deserve to live in peace. And peace is only reachable when the lands that don't belong to Israel are returned to their rightful citizens. This is a tough neighbourhood we live in, the only way we will survive is if we realise that this land belongs to us all. I hope Sharon will pursue and revive the peace process, but unfortunately I doubt it. I realise that Arafat and other Arab leaders have been ruthless and responsible for many deaths, but that doesn't clear the way for Sharon to be elected prime minister. The election confirms the Israeli misconception as to how peace will be reached. If peace is desired then international law and United Nations resolutions have to be respected. And people that throw stones are not to be answered by machine guns, tanks, and helicopters. The Israelis have elected a man they believe will work to get the job done, and do it while representing the interests of Israel. The election shows the disgust of the Israeli people with Barak. I see people continually calling Sharon a war criminal, yet the man who has been leading the Palestinians has sponsored terrorism himself. He has the ability to ring-in his people in order to get things done, yet look what he's accomplished instead. Barak was willing to give the Palestinians far more than previous Israeli leaders, yet he still walked out on the peace talks. I don't understand why it is that in this day and age, when somebody is willing to stand up for his country and put its interests first, all of a sudden he's labelled a extremist and a Zealot.
Leon Blank, Brussels, Belgium The Arabs and all their supporters will do well to hold their peace before they accuse our leader as a war criminal. Arab and Muslim leaders, past and present, have set such records of butchering their own people (including Palestinians) that Israel will never be able to break. They also have to understand that we are not impressed when they explain to us that we are racist occupants who have nothing to do in Jerusalem, Hebron, Judea and Tel-Aviv. It's hard to explain to Arabs, but the Westerners here should understand that democracy means loud arguments and disagreements. They also should get into their heads that we have our values that no one is allowed to trample upon. And they should know that we do not like when somebody is killing us, lynching us, blowing us up - even if this somebody happens to be underage kid with nothing but hate on his mind.
Tim, London, UK Could anyone answer my question ? Who among all the Israeli prime ministers has not committed crimes and massacres? Now we are going back to the endless cycle of hatred and revenge. The peace process will take another century or maybe more because the massacres will continue. In response to Ariel's (Ann Arbor, USA) statement about a single Moslem country not electing its ruler democratically-well how about Indonesia and Bangladesh to name two? Incidentally, like Israel, these countries have had corruption scandals with their elected rulers, and also like Israel they have occasionally violated human rights and have not always been sensitive to their minorities. The bombing in Israel will continue as long as the injustice continues against the people of Palestine. If the violence was closer to home for the UK and US then they would seek a quicker resolution to the problem. The western world will continue to support the Jews as long as the problem does not crop up in their own back yard. Robin Cook was quick to condemn Col. Gaddafi for not following UN instructions, why is he not so open in condemning Israel for violating UN resolutions, I wonder? It's interesting that Sharon visits a holy site, causing the Intifada, which causes Barak to call an election, which leads to Sharon, the man who started it all, becoming Prime minister. A cynic might think he planned it all ...
RBD, India How can the Israelis be called murderers when thousands of Arabs live in the state of Israel without harm. How can Israel sit back if the whole of the so-called Muslim world is seeking for their destruction. How can the Israelis sit back when the very people who cry for peace are calling for the total destruction of Israel? Not until people stop being biased in the Arab-Israeli conflict will peace be realized in the Middle East.
Hesham, New Zealand Arafat and the Palestinians have backed the wrong horse again. During the Gulf War they backed Saddam and their so called "brother" Arabs punished them by expelling Palestinians and cutting off funds to the PLO. Now Arafat backs violence and gets Sharon. Barak was even willing to concede Jerusalem and Arafat wanted more. Well you can't always get what you want. Palestinian refugees can be resettled and compensated. Where are their "Arab brothers" when they need financial help the most? Israel is not going to disappear or become weaker. The militant Arabs have pushed Israel too far, Israel will strike back.
Shlomo M., Israel, Jerusalem The situation in the Middle East has dragged on forever. The only way to put an end to it is if both religions treat each other with equality. Judaism and Islam are very similar faiths, it is sad to see that people who have practically the same faith can be so different. The Israelis should allow the refugees, that they pushed out so long ago, to return to their land, the only reason they aren't doing so is because they do not want to give up the Jewish majority. Is it the Palestinian's fault that he/she is a Muslim, should they be condemned to refugee camps just because of their faith? It is sad that the UN is doing nothing to quash the fighting. If they impose sanctions on Israel to force it to accept the refugees then most of the quarrels will end. The Israelis are being selfish in a sense that they believe that the land is theirs, Muslims also consider the land sacred. Israel is not viable in the long term without the trust of her neighbours, and is currently doing little to inspire this trust. One day there will be either a peace along the lines of what was already on the table, or a Middle East destroyed by war. The first scenario will be possible after Sharon is gone, but we might never get there since this man might trigger off the second scenario before that. But this ugly occupation won't last. Blame goes to both sides, but let's not forget that Sharon got exactly what he planned for when he went to the Temple Mount on 28 September: Palestinian violence that makes him look like the savior of his nation. It is sad that his malicious intentions worked out this well. Any newly elected leader will try to "start as he means to go on" especially in such a political powder keg, so what has Sharon done so far? In his victory speech, he talked about "real peace and stability" - well, talk is cheap, it's actions that really matter. In the 2 days since his victory he has managed to anger both the Egyptian and Jordanian governments - is this an indication of what's to come? I read a lot here about Palestinians having no right of return. Seems a bit rich from people promoting a country that has the right of return at its foundation.
Yehuda Ben-Ya'akov, Givat'aim Israel In your article on the Palestinian refugees' right of return you make no mention of the millions of Jewish people who were forced to leave Arab countries - including Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq since the troubles have started. No negotiations can take place without these people being duly compensated. The most appropriate suggestion could be that each Jew thrown out of a country could cancel out the right of return of a Palestinian thrown out of Palestine/Israel - the figures would roughly cancel each other out. There is also the fact of financial losses - you will find that the Jews living in Arab countries lost a lot more in economic terms than the Arabs in Palestine/Israel.
Albert, Edinburgh, UK Sharon has declared negotiations will not commence from where Barak concluded. Given Sharon's hawkish and semi-racist attitudes towards the Arabs, it is unlikely we'll see any productive measures coming out of Israel in his term. Let's hope the years since his military career have given him some newfound wisdom regarding his dealings with the Palestinians. The entire world desperately needs to understand that the very man who provoked and was responsible for the latest 4 months of uprising and bloodshed has been elected to power by the Israeli people. The implications of this are indeed very disturbing. It makes you wonder, of the "agenda for peace" that Jewish people have for both themselves and the Palestinians. In any decent, democratic country tried this man would be tried for war crimes and other atrocities against the Palestinians. And yet, we see him on the forefront of Israeli politics as our new prime minister. These two facts paint a very grim picture for the future of peace in the Middle East. Indeed this is a sad day not just for Jews and Arabs, but for the entire world.
Ilya Lisansky, Boston, USA As an "Arab" with both "Arab" and Jewish friends, I feel that Sharon bodes ill for both parties involved in the conflict. It is the lack of their basic human rights that Palestinians, even the children, feel compelled to protest. How much does peace cost? How many lives and how many resources will be wasted? May God bless those with truly peaceful intentions. Having signed the Oslo agreement, the Palestinian regime violated each and every provision of the accord. They have created a 40,000-strong army, educated their children about Jihad against Israel, engaged in terror and lynching and demanded more and more. Yes, the Temple Mount is the third most sacred place for the Moslems. This is not the reason for them to have sovereignty over it. The same place is the first and the only sacred Jewish place. Yes, 700,000 Arabs went into exile in 1948. The same number of Jews were expelled at the same time from Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq and North Africa. There was a population exchange, simple as that. Sharon was elected democratically. Show me a single Arab or, for that matter, Moslem country that can say the same about its ruler.
David, USA Many of us who voted for Sharon feel that there is an absence of peace. The Palestinian Authority has unceasingly poured forth hatred of Israel and Jews through its education system and media networks. At the moment the only people talking about war are the Arabs. Israelis feel that Barak offered Yasser Arafat the most he could but even that wasn't good enough and the response was the violence which erupted last year. We all hope and pray for peace daily. Mike in Calgary, Ariel Sharon is not a Russian immigrant to Israel. He was born in 1928 in a Moshav (agricultural kibbutz) near Tel Aviv; land legally acquired and hardly "stolen" in the "colonial" manner that he so histrionically describes. Sharon has many and various faults and I would never have supported him to further any peace dialogue in the region. However mis-informed people must realise that there was a continual Jewish presence in this region for thousands of years especially Jerusalem and Hebron. This is not including Jews who immigrated there and bought their land from Arab landowners in the 18th and 19th centuries. It is interesting to note and is factually correct that people such as Ariel Sharon were themselves Palestinians - Jewish Palestinians. I have a hard time understanding how people can say Arafat was wrong in not accepting Barak's peace proposals. True, Barak went further than any other Israeli leader in offering concessions, but they were still not in line with the security council resolutions put forth decades ago. Israelis must realize that these resolutions will not be forgotten by the international community. They will never have peace without implementing them. They have got to play by the same rules as the rest of the world. Ariel Sharon's attitude will not bring peace. I pray for the innocents on both sides that he will not be in power long enough to get too many people killed. It's a shame to vote for a man with such a track record. I wish the people of the middle east good luck. Peace.
Raman Dinesh, UK If peace means total capitulation, Arafat has failed a great opportunity to bring "peace". What kind of peace do Israelis expect. Should 3.5 million people continue living in camps and accept the biggest ethnic cleansing since WW2? Should 1 billion Muslims be denied their right to visit the third most holiest place in Islam? What Barak offered to Palestinians was the least he could do. Under his power Jewish settlements grew like they never had before and the Golan Heights, which he promised to hand back to Syria remained occupied. I just want to remind some people that the number of Palestinians who where killed in the conflict was at least 7 or 8 times higher than that of Israelis. Unfortunately, the life of a Palestinian teenager is regarded worthless in the Western world.
Neil, Canada It doesn't matter who the leader of Israel is. Peace will come only when there is justice for the Palestinian people. Real justice, where Israel withdraws to the pre-1967 borders. Israel has to withdraw from all occupied lands including East Jerusalem, not part of it. Indonesia had to withdraw from all of East Timor. Why is the rule different for Israel? Reading the comments made me realise that Westerners tend to think that everyone is like them. Well, this is not Northern Europe, this is the Middle East. Weakness can invite war, but fear can enforce peace. |
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