What you've said

Panorama: Mondays at 2030 BST on BBC One

Thank you for sending us your views on Wasting Police Time.

We have published a selection of your comments below.

You can also read more about the issues raised in Wasting Police Time by reading the features that accompany this programme.

I have just watched the episode entitled "Wasting Police Time¿. Wow! How accurate the report was. I cannot believe the views of Tony McNulty. I am unsure whether his comments on the programme are due to his advisers mis-informing him or just shear arrogance. In 2002 The Labour party brought in National Crime Recording Standards (NCRS). This was designed to try and achieve accurate crime figures, in fact all it has done has forced officers into making the low level crime featured on your show. If a caller says something like "There are two males outside fighting" to the police operator that is typed on a police log. We as attending officers HAVE to arrest whatever the circumstances to close the log with a crime number. If the fight has finished we would still be expected to arrest if the caller was willing to give a statement. The only way around this is to LIE by saying something like "all quiet on police arrival" which would then dent our integrity. We have no discretion whatsoever. The integrity issue runs deep, from Patrol to CID. From traffic to firearms. A final thought, if I had arrested the two fighters at the start of the 8 hour shift, if I missed my meal I might, just might get off home on time.
Serving PC - West Yorkshire, Huddersfield

As a serving police officer I do agree with the comments made by PC Davidson. I fail to see why he is being described as a "moaning minny" by an Inspector. If that Inspector believes that any of what has been said is not true please expand on it, otherwise I would suggest that he goes out and actually makes an arrest to see what really goes on and the amount of hoops that officers now need to jump through, what with CPS appointments gathering evidence,CCTV,statements,COZART testing DNA tests NAFIS, photograph, Case files (last count was about MG20) PNCB forms, CRIS, CRIMINT endless form filling (including 5090 for asking what someone is doing!)and the myriad of other tasks that have been imposed on us and keep an officer, who it doesn't need to be doing them as a civilian could do it, from the street because we seem to lack any common sense these days. I'll take a wild stab in the dark and suggest that the inspector hasn't seen the light of day operationally for a considerable time. I also had the "pleasure" of escorting Mr McNulty on a Friday night duty where we paraded 4 officers for core shift. SMT managed to bolster that number with specials for the night so it looked like we were flush with PCs. Even so we ran out of resources very quickly and it was fairly humorous to see Mr McNulty being accosted by drunks and aggrieved members of the public as he was wearing police body armour and they looked to him for help(shows that they are as misguided as us). As for the last comment I read about "Panorama can do better than this" unfortunately "Mark" it would be funny if it wasn't true. "The few" disgruntled police officers I'm afraid are many and they are frontline officers which is what the public deal with initially, I personally know of at least four officers have or are leaving for the same reasons as Mr Davidson. I only wish him luck as I know that his discretion and common sense will be given back to him when he dons the uniform.
Withheld, London U.K

I work as a Special Constable in a city in the south of England Although I do not suffer as much as my regular colleagues, I too find the current climate in the British police service somewhat intolerable. I can sympathise with everything that was said in the program. They say that the amount of police officers in England and Wales is at an all time high, but how many of these work on the frontline? Most of these officers swan about like superstars in their little squads and units using the words "not in our remit". I work alongside frontline officers on a regular basis. I am part of the team and do everything I can to help my colleagues clear up the never-ending paperwork trail so that they can get out on the streets. However, on more than one occasion I have been the only officer available to respond to jobs in a city with a population nearing 250,000 residents. I have gone to jobs single crewed while my colleagues sit on the phone to the CPS and deal with low level! l, rubbish prisoners that have been arrested simply to get a tick in the detection box. Shift officers who should be working as a team argue about who should get the detections and even steel detections from other shifts with the click of a mouse button. No frontline police officers are truly able to do the job they want and NEED to do. I do wonder why I have an application going through to join up as a PC when I know what its really like.
Anon, England

I understand & appreciate the depth of concern over the diversion of police to petty paperwork & targets. However, this is not an entirely new phenomenon. e.g. As a probationary constable, over 40 years ago, I was posted to Beats 1-10 (then the whole sub-division) on at least three successive nights. When a shop burglary took place, down a side street, I was called out of bed & then had to write a 'duty statement' accounting for my movements & explaining why I had not 'marked' the premises, in order to detect the burglary before the CID got in to work. Some of my compatriots left to go join police in Canada or Australia, back in the swinging 60's. In more recent years, I know of a relative who left the Met to go to South Australia, along with many other experienced officers. This tide of disaffection with targets & pettiness is now turning to a flood. If politicians took their finger out of other people's work & focussed on their own effectiveness & efficiency; then 'GB' would now not just mean 'Gordon Brown'.
Peter Sketchley, East Dorset, England

South Wales Police has approximately 3600 officers, working on four separate reliefs. On a very, very, good day there are a maximum of 180 officers working on any relief. That's 800 frontline police, the other 2800 are allegedly in "support" posts and never step foot on any street. South Wales is no different to any one of the other forces in these figures. Is there any other industry anywhere in the world that is so top heavy?
Dave, Bridgend, South Wales

All i can do is echo all the comments already made. I have eleven years service with two uk police forces. I, along with nearly all my colleagues have had enough. The whole system is a joke. It staggers me that the only person who doesn't agree is an Inspector who clearly has no idea what he is talking about. It is this kind of blinkered view which is partly to blame. If only these people who have put themselves into a supervisory role would speak up instead of toeing the party line we might get somewhere. As for the comment made by " Mark " from down south somewhere i wouldn't bother complaining when you are assaulted or your car is stolen that the police took days to get to you, we were probably far to busy filling forms in for the theft of a plant pot or something....
Austin Godfrey, Oldham Lancashire

I am a serving police officer (12 years) and like many colleagues am in the process of moving to the job overseas. I agree that policing in the UK has lost it's sense of purpose and performance indicators is at the heart of this, however I am also moving for general quality of life issues. Best of luck to my remaining policing colleagues and to the British public. I genuinely hope that sense is seen and politicians and senior officers have the vision to get back the police service the British people deserve. I do fear though that they think they know what is best for the rest of us.
Ron, Burgess Hill

Hope this cop is under no illusions, the paperwork here is far more intense than the Uk ever was, so I hope he is prepared to eat humble pie on his exit from the UK!! However we don't work for Canada police though!!! But I expect it to be the same everywhere........... hahaha!!
Sarah, Adelaide, South OZ

I was really disappointed that you missed the opportunity to ask what I thought was the most obvious question of all. Who was responsible for initiating the need for all of this form filling in the first place?
You could have then followed it up by asking the question.
Why is there no performance related criteria for politicians? They should lead by example.
Jack Hargreaves, Bolton UK

Great show and all totally true, the greater majority of all front line police officers would I believe agree with every word said. It has gone totally mad. Perhaps the Government will start to listen, it is not the individual forces but the government that is to blame which came out in the broadcast. keep up the good work
Chris, Staffs

From my point of view as a serving police officer the program reflected a very true and accurate view of policing today in London.
I joined to fight crime and protect people but I am being hampered by abstractions increased bureaucracy, targets, reduced team officers. However front line team police officers are the lowest of the low in the governments eyes and there seems to be no change in sight.
Gavin, London

Having retired earlier this year after 30 years service, and having read the 'Wasting Police Time' book by 'PC David Copperfield' I watched the programme with interest. Everything stated by the contributors was true, but I feel that you only scratched the surface of the problem. A large number of bobbies are wanting out, they are disheartened by red tape, chasing numbers not criminals etc etc. Its only the desire to do their 'bit' that keeps them going, and the hope based on government promises that there will be a cutting down of paper work and the freeing up of resources. They are hollow words. Many officers would like to stand up and speak out, but know such actions would end their careers.
I have regular contact with a friend who is an ex UK Police Officer who is now a Police Officer abroad, he would not come back to be a Police officer in the UK. I went to see him last year, and spent a shift with him and could not believe how rewarding his shift was. Minimal paperwork, a respect for his position by the community, and courts that that are not frightened to sentence a criminal to imprisonment. Throughout my 30 years the Police were always being criticised by the public and the press. sadly, in my last few years I found it hard to defend the poor service the public were receiving from us.
'ex PC', Leeds West Yorks

Warrants are issued by the courts to arrest people, we receive a copy of that warrant and take the warrant with us to arrest the person. Once back at the custody unit, instead of handing the warrant over to show why the person arrested we have another one and a half hours paperwork. Officer statement and then a file for the court, this shows the time date and location the person was arrested. My point is why have to show time date and location. The only thing that matters is the person has been arrested and put before the court.
anonymous, England

Great show and all totally true, the greater majority of all front line police officers would i believe agree with every word said. It has gone totally mad. Perhaps the Government will start to listen, it is not the individual forces but the government that is to blame which came out in the broadcast. keep up the good work
Chris, Staffs

Our own senior management don't do us any favours either. An MP recently spent a few nights with my shift to witness, at first hand, what we do. The sergeant tasked with teaming him up with an officer for the night thought it would be an ideal opportunity for him to witness the enormous amount of pointless administration tasks & paperwork we have to deal with that keep us off the streets. However our senior officers didn't want him to see this and so he was teamed up with the one patrol that is each night kept free, as far as is possible, in order to provide back up at violent incidents and to transport people under arrest to the station. In other words what they wanted him to see is what everybody sees on TV i.e. the chases, the brawls outside pubs etc. A case of the emperors new clothes? If what last nights Panorama showed, is being kept from the very people who created this situation in the first place with their target driven culture, how is the situation ever going ! to get better? It's no wonder the Minister for Police is sceptical when he's told the truth. The MP also apparently nearly fell off his chair when he discovered, upon speaking to my colleagues, the number of violent or potentially violent incidents we attend each night and that female officers actually patrol on their own! These are the very people who are currently telling us we can't have a cost of living pay increase. It's no wonder PC Copperfield has decided to pack it all in. What he's done is to be admired and its a shame we are losing him but good luck to him.
Matt, England

I am a serving Police Inspector and don't recognise the world of PC Stuart Davidson aka David Copperfield. I think I know what I am talking about as my nearly 30 years service far outweighs his 4 years. Yes there is lots of paperwork, but all for a reason - to record what we do to protect the public and be accountable to them as well as the Government. After all working with law involves paperwork. Nowhere was there any mention of the Lawrence Inquiry which brought about Stop and Account due to our failings in the past. Edmonton Police may rely on an officer's judgement, but precisely because we were failing in that dept. were more forms brought in. When I first joined we had to write a report about everything we did, the forms were then brought in to speed up the process and ensure all pertinent details are recorded. I note for all his moaning he didn't once make a suggestion on how to improve anything. I've no doubt he was sometimes out alone - indeed I was the other day - because everyone else was in dealing with prisoners. Part of our job. I work in London where we have established teams to deal with prisoners so am aware that life in the counties can be harder with less officers in smaller towns. But I know from having worked overseas with the UN Police that the British Police is the best despite the paperwork. The grass may be greener in Canada, but no doubt they have their faults too. I feel sorry for the Canadians getting PC Davidson as he is such a moaning minny - but at least he won't be working here anymore!
JM Jaeger

I have been a constable for around a year. Everything in that Panorama is spot on! I think that paperwork, and easy detections are crippling us! Please government and ACPO listen!
Anonymous, Romford, Essex

The statistics these cops give are only the tip of the ice berg. I don't think there would be a 'cop' in Strathclyde Police where I used to work who couldn't beat them for shock value. As for the Police Minister welcoming back ex cops 'Not True' I have a letter here from Strathclyde Police stating that there were no positions available for me when I did.
Chris McMonagle, Surfers Paradise, Australia

I am an ex UK officer with 9 years service with Greater Manchester Police. I left my force after being accepted by South Australia Police and have served with them for almost a year. The report on 'Wasting Police Time' was so correct it made the hairs on my neck stand. I left my previous force for the same reasons as those officers interviewed. I was unable to do my job due to unnecessary paperwork and instead of preventing crime I concentrated on achieving government targets, handed down the command chain. I personally know of officers who have been told that their annual payments will be removed if their detection rates are not increased. This undoubtedly means that officers go out and arrest people in order to get their 'bonus' payments, which leads to a corrupt Police force.
Adelaide, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

The programme infers that we should be surprised that the police are overtaken with bureaucracy and inefficiency. In my experience as the managing director of a small business employing 22 people, every government agency and department I deal with displays exactly the same over dependency on inefficient systems.
The key problems always seem to be the same. First, implementing a 'one size fits all' system is impossible as you cannot standardise personal circumstances. The second is one of accountability - there is little or none and this does not encourage individuals to make decisions, whether right or wrong. You cannot empower people without giving them authority but at the same time making them accountable for their actions. Until these problems are addressed, the systems of government departments will never improve.
Jonathan Knight, Bridgend, UK

There are many parallels with civvy life that can be drawn from the frustrations that are voiced in this documentary about today's 'modern policing methods and performance measurement standards'. It is not just government run organisations that have fallen foul to in accurate performance measurements - FTSE 100 companies are also lost and embroiled in over achieving mis guided board room set targets that pull people away from the job they originally signed up to....... maybe that is simple Darwinism and that's how organisations survive and evolve, it may be, however I can not believe that an organisation will survive with demotivated staff!
David Kennan, London

I saw the programme tonight, and I must confess it was spot on. I have been a serving officer for nearly 12 years and over that time it has become more bureaucratic with paperwork and statistics. However the other problem we are facing are pay and conditions within the service, not only are officers leaving due to the reasons you gave in the programme but also the pay. Sussex do not have London waiting and the SPP payment is only given to positions that are hard to fill, such as front line officers. I know of officers on benefit and unable to purchase a property in the own county they are serving in, they have to opt for a housing association to help them out, like myself and have been stung badly when it came to sell. I joined the service to help people and catch the bad guys, but this is not happening. Another example is car crime, this is a high priority crime and instead of targeting the suspects pro-actively instead we are waiting till the crime has occurred and with our fingers crossed we may find evidence wither through witness's or DNA. If this is negative then the incident gets filed, and they have produced a team who sit in an office to deal with this. How can we be giving people a service like this ???
With regards to paperwork, we used to use a pen and be able to sit in a car and write the reports, now we are forced to go back to the station to fill out the same paperwork, how mad is that ???
That includes having to write another form on computer to get a simple crime number, there used to be a time we could do this by phone. Overall the numbers of officers have dwindled and the paperwork involved has grown. Another matter that was not mentioned was the fact then when a person is arrested it can take anything up to an hour to book them in, then we have to go to "case director" who advises the officer on hw to investigate it. The person will get bailed pending al these "so called" lines of enquiry are completed and then the officer has to get an appointment with a CPS lawyer, who only works days, to then get a decision on whether to charge, then the officer may have to return to the case director to explain the circumstances again, then the person may or may nit be dealt with by caution or charge. Officer used to use there brain to do these matters and the custody sergeant used to make the final decisions, again all of this has been taken out of the officers hands in the name of progress. This is all left to the front line officer who is expected to deal with emergency calls, routine paperwork and prisoners, not forgetting the other non emergency calls from members of the public, then be expected to meat the PI's (performance indicators).
I salute the officers that appeared in the programme, well done, but things will not change as the people in parliament live in an Ivory tower and get there information from other people in Ivory Towers. This country has a huge problem with the state the Police service is in at the moment, we used to be admired as the best in the world, however I fail to see why ??
PC Robert Peel (I am with holding my details to stay anonymous as I am still a serving officer and wish to protect my job)
PC Robert Peel, Sussex Constabulary

I am a serving officer in Gwent Police and have been for the last 11 years. I thought your program was very informative and did a lot in 30 minutes but only scratched the surface of what is going on. I noted with interest that the officers that you interviewed had been in less than 10 years. Says a lot about the state of British Police. When I joined, the senior officer on shift would have had about from 15 years in. Now, the senior man is more likely to have 5 years or less.
As for the comment that the officer could be the only one that would be covering a large area, I am sure that you will get more than enough e-mails saying that that is the normality of the situation, rather than the exception. We are so thin on the ground on the front line that it is dangerous to the public, not just to us.
I know of some instances where probationers have been the only officers covering an area (that is officers with 2 years or less). Officers are re-rostered to make up the numbers on a regular basis. I could go on and on but I will not, as I know that this has to be concise. Just to add that after 11 years, I have now applied for a Canadian Police Force, just to get back to the job that I love.
Geraint, Wales

When I do see policemen walking around they always seem to be in pairs. If alone they would cover twice the area. If I ask why I am told it is for safety and yet as a pensioner I am told it is safe for me to go out alone at night.
Brian, Romford

I agree with all the points raised by PC David Copperfield and other colleagues raised in this show.
I am a serving officer in the Metropolitan Police, and I am currently trying to join Western Australia Police, the main reason for this is that the 'Job' in the UK is not what I signed up for.
I joined the police for the same reason that many of my colleagues did, to catch criminals and, to help people. A lot of my time as an operational police officer is spent behind a computer screen duplicating several reports, for many trivial matters.
Another issue that should be raised regarding policing is that UK Prisons are full. Offenders are no longer being sent to prison and several are released early. What is the point of arresting persistent offenders if they are not punished? Why not give them all an ASBO as they work!
ASBO's are a farce and if ministers are honest with themselves they would be aware that most people who are subject to an ASBO should already have been sent to prison for the numerous offences they have committed to be subject of one.
Labour, tough on crime tough on the causes of crime!

Pete, London England

About time for that programme. I'm surprised it has taken so long for the truth to come out. Having served in the police for 30 years, I see paperwork and lots of other issues are still causing problems. Lost count we used to say at work, "if only the public knew....". But Senior police and government just won't admit the truth. Just prior to me leaving the force, the expression used for an easy summons/arrest was " a tick's a tick...."
Ken, Merseyside

How refreshing to see a BBC production of such honesty - only spoiled by the Labour M.P. People who care about the British Public expressing their concerns which, if listened to would benefit England. There is, now, no doubt that those leaving England are those who love our country so much. The individual who used the alias David Copperfield should be knighted for his humorous outlook last year while enduring such unhappiness. Well done BBC - showing decent human beings for 2 successive nights.
Paul Wilson, Durham England

The fact that Police Officers have been wasting time filling in forms has been well known for years. The fact that the system encourages Police officers to deal with minor crime so as to meet the personal performance indicators and to show "crime" as detected has been well known for years. One side effect of all this has been the increase in spending on criminal legal aid.
The arrest figures are broadly similar over the years, but the numbers of people coming to court has increased dramatically. Allied to this is the fact that when the public meet a police officer they are more often than not disappointed by the experience. the Government's love of targets has driven police officers into a bureaucratic nightmare, created a desire amongst police officers to make the easy collar and failed to re-assure the public that the police are doing a good job fighting crime-and the costs of policing and of representing defendants has gone up.
The Government will not listen to any criticism and will not engage with police officers or solicitors at the coal face to establish systems that actually work.
Michael Robinson, Newcastle upon Tyne, England

I watched your program this evening on the bureaucracy tying up police resources. This absolutely reflects the child protection system
carol, east Sussex

I am a working police officer, and i can confirm that the British force is crippled with bureaucracy. I was astonished to hear that a prisoner can be in and out of custody in 16 minutes. The other week, I waited a hour and a half, just to get my prisoner to the desk!
Only in this country, would the govt observe that the police are not regularly patrolling the streets, and come up with a solution like the PCSO.
I suggested to my chief constable that instead of employing PCSO's, to do the work that cops are supposed to do (i.e. patrol the streets); he should employ civilian staff, to do the paper work, that was stopping the cops from doing their jobs.
M Marshall, Nottingham, uk

As a recently retired police officer, I can only echo everything that the police officers in the programme said. But I would say that it took longer to process arrested people particularly if they were juveniles, the paperwork is horrendous and repetitious. It is not unusual for officers and their prisoners to be kept in the custody holding cell for two hours before being allowed in to be processed. It is unfortunate that Home Office ministers refuse to accept what people tell them unless it is what they want to hear.
eric scully, widnes, england

"Wasting Police Time" an excellent programme thank you for voicing the concerns of frontline officers that are totally ignored by both government and ACPO and often as demonstrated by the minister on your programme treated with contempt. I personally know 3 officers who have left for overseas 2 more are in the application process. We are completely immersed in a relentless government driven bureaucracy , ever more paperwork , endless meetings, pointless statistics. We are no longer the publics guardians, merely uniformed drones of the guardinista public
withheld, England

As a staff nurse I completely empathise with the police concerns. We as ward nurses are equally frustrated that we are not effectively doing the job we joined to do, caring for our patients, because we have so much paperwork to contend with
Paul, United Kingdom

I served as a Police officer for 17 years in the UK. I was so sick of UK policing I moved to Canada. I have 5 commendations, was a Sgt and had 1000s spent on my training. Not one senior officer asked why I was going or tried t get me to stay. PC Copperfield is spot on despite what the MPs say!!
Mike, Ottawa Canada

Okay - I'm a serving PC. But your programme was 100% accurate - no it wasn't it was 110% accurate... 120% accurate. You get the message. The worst aspect of the police service is that the leadership has become bureaucratised. We have the homogenised senior ranks into 'bean counters' and there are now two parallel systems operating. Constables + Sergeants - and - Inspectors and above. Some Inspectors have still got their feet on the ground and attempt to make sense of it all but they are in a minority. Police budgets are huge and police forces employ large numbers of people but drive around your local town tonight and see for yourself what you are paying for. We aren't there for the public...
Edmund, Anytown, England

I do agree that a lot of police time is wasted on unnecessary paper work when they could be out on the beat and targeting more serious crime. The government shouldn't be putting officers under pressure to meet targets, they should just let them do their job. What do the government think is more important? Hitting targets or actually tackling real crime?
lisa, stoke on trent staffordshire

Both I and my Partner are serving Police Officers in the UK. After watching the programme this evening about the UK Police service. All we can do is applaud you for broadcasting it. Everyone who spoke had a valid point of which I'm sure every Police Officer in the land could identify with. Thank you for voicing the views of the Police Service. It always feels like no one listens to us, and now at least someone at the BBC has showed they're interested.
Anon, UK

I was once arrested for being drunk and disorderly (in Newcastle). The next morning I was kindly driven back to my house by two officers. I had a good chat with them and said that if they could start over, they would not think for a minute about joining the police force due to obscene amounts of bureaucracy. They said they had become totally disillusioned. Instead of simply putting me in a cell for the night and getting on with other jobs, I was told that the officers who arrested me would have spent most of their evening filling out paper work.
They have very little ways of tackling the problems of yobbish youths destroying our streets, beating people up, intimidating others and vandalising our streets and those youths know their rights.
I have spoken to several other officers who said they wouldn't recommend a career in the force to anyone.
Its time the government eradicated the bureaucracy and give the police more powers and increased freedom.
Oliver, Scotland, UK

I have just watched wasting Police time and could not stop nodding my head in agreement with everything that was said. I too work on the response unit for Staffordshire Police and I experience the same incidents detailed day in day out. I can also confirm that to have one patrol on duty for a shift is a regular occurrence, particularly where I am stationed. One shift has been running with one officer for at least the last 2 months!! Members of the public deserve to know exactly what is going on within the Police service and congratulations to Panorama for a precise and educational report. Lets hope that someone realises the crisis facing the police service and acts upon it before it is too late.
Anon, Wolverhampton, United Kingdom

although on the whole I agree with some comments made by the ex-officer who had served in Staffordshire police, his remarks made by the Canadian police arresting two males on warrants were in accurate. In this country a file would not be necessary and only one form, an arrest proforma would suffice. I can only imagine that the officer you featured on your program, had perhaps made a mistake or has a lack of knowledge when dealing with warrants.
mark, Essex

I can't believe the poor reporting and lack of facts in tonight's Panorama show! I mean a couple disgruntled policemen who probably have a beef about being outcasts does not make a show. I wonder if the guy in bound for Canada knows the bureaucracy there? The whole show was laughable and rather inferior, come on Panorama you can do better!!!!!
mark, maryport

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