A retrospective of Gilbert & George's Dirty Words Pictures at the Serpentine Gallery in London.

(Edited highlights of the panel's review)

Watch the whole programme - 7 June 2002

MARK LAWSON:
Paul Morley, as we saw there, there are three elements in all of these works. They use themselves, use a word, a piece of graffiti and then photographs. Did the elements work together?

PAUL MORLEY:
When I went in, I wasn't sure what to do with the exhibition. Then I decided if I viewed it as art it might make some sense. So I decided to view it as art. Then it began to make a kind of sense.

What immediately struck me, in the week when we've had the Jubilee burbling away in some kind of middle distance, I recognised this as being very much 1977.

I think it is their Ant and Dec period, before they became Morecambe and Wise, and after they were Cannon and Ball! So that's kind of interesting.

I'm never sure with Gilbert and George. What I miss is love and tenderness. I know they write a lot about that, but that doesn't happen for me... you pulled a face there, Peggy!

It's just I never know with Gilbert and George, they're not funny enough, they're not artistic enough, they don't give me enough meaning.

So even though I enjoyed it to the extent that I was thinking, "Why isn't something happening like this now?", in terms of a protest at what's going on. "Where has it all gone?" It reminded me very much of some of the energy and anger of where I was in 1977, which was punk rock. It was something about it that became a bit quaint and 1930s.

MARK LAWSON:
Peggy will now reveal what the pulled face meant.

PEGGY REYNOLDS:
I will indeed! I quite agree with you about it being dated. But it is so interesting that it has been put in the Golden Jubilee, as they come out of the Silver Jubilee year.

To my mind, these pictures are so incredibly beautiful and absolutely moving. The one I'm thinking of now is one called Bent, where, as ever, Gilbert and George themselves figure within the frame of the picture.

At one point, these pictures are described as portals into other spaces. Quite often, it is Gilbert and George provide the portal, because they will be on either side. With Bent, there are several pictures of them, and their whole body language is very tender, very cradling.

PAUL MORLEY:
I think that's what troubles me, though. They're not beautiful forms. It troubles me that they're the entrance into this world, it troubles me, just the view...

MARK LAWSON:
Also, there are some where you can see the point of them being in them. But why do they have to be in every single one?

PEGGY REYNOLDS:
Because it is their view, it is their perspective.

MARK LAWSON:
It's Rembrandt's view, but you don't have a little painting of Rembrandt in the corner, do you?

PEGGY REYNOLDS:
It is very interesting to be reminded of who it is that you're...

PAUL MORLEY:
I liked Beep Beep the best. It was fantastic.

MARK LAWSON:
Ian Rankin?

IAN RANKIN:
The viewers at home don't know this, but two minutes ago, while the film was being shown we were having a discussion about what words we could and couldn't say on air.

That's an interesting thing that dirty words are still dirty as far as the BBC are concerned. There are certain ones we were told not to use.

PAUL MORLEY:
25 years after this happened, we're still having trouble.

IAN RANKIN:
Absolutely, we have this kind of censorship. There are warnings when you go in that these images may not be suitable for children.

You have to make up your own mind. You can go into any museum in the world and see severed heads, and see blood and guts, but you're not allowed to see dirty words.

For me, the interesting thing about them was the juxtaposition of the graffiti with the images. The graffiti itself was angry. Whoever did it was very angry.

PAUL MORLEY:
I felt it was made up, though. It slightly undermined its power.

MARK LAWSON:
That's one of the things, they leave all that open. We don't know where the photos comes from, we don't know if they make it up.

PEGGY REYNOLDS:
There's one that's called Bummed, and the two "Ms" are put above each other. I don't think the graffiti artist would have been quite witty enough to have managed that.

PAUL MORLEY:
They were limited about how far they spell... like in "F***ED", sorry, "FUKCED".

MARK LAWSON:
A reference for the sponsors there!

PEGGY REYNOLDS:
While I was there, a foreign family came in. One of the children read one of the rude words, which I will not say. He said, "Daddy, what does it mean?" Being foreign, he sensibly ignored her.

MARK LAWSON:
The thing that surprised me, Paul, and they can't have expected this, was that it works best as a sort of photographic exhibition of the 1970s social history, which I can't believe was the intention.

PAUL MORLEY:
That's interesting. Coming to the other side myself now, it has lasted. I thought that was interesting. It reminded me, having been of a certain age in 1977, I thought, yes, that is 1977. I wasn't aware of it at the time.

IAN RANKIN:
Very bad checked clothes.

PAUL MORLEY:
In another sense, you could see it now as well.

MARK LAWSON:
Also, there is a strange legal twist. Now you couldn't just photograph people or use photographs of people. You would now need consent because of European law. That is an interesting twist, that in the '70s, you could just go around, taking any image you wanted.

PAUL MORLEY:
It reminds you both how long ago the '70s really was, and yet how close it was. It's a strange thing. Sometimes I thought, "God, it's like the '30s, we're being really nostalgic. We were more liberated and liberal then than we are now".

IAN RANKIN:
The first picture you see as you walk in, the piece of graffiti says, "Are you angry or are you boring?" It's a question to the viewer as they walk in.

The paintings to me seem both angry and boring. Which is a funny old juxtaposition.

PAUL MORLEY:
I liked the one where they were George and Gilbert.

MARK LAWSON:
Last word from our triple act on the double act.