Atkins diet discussed with Ann Leslie and the dietician Lucille Daniels

On Sunday, 17 August 2003, Breakfast with Frost featured an interview with Ann Leslie - Journalist and Lucille Daniels - British Dietetic Association

Please note "BBC Breakfast with Frost" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used

PETER SISSONS: Now Jennifer did it, so did Geri - and Catherine and Minnie - the Atkins Diet that is.

They all shed the pounds by cutting out the carbs and eating more fat.

So popular is the controversial celebrity diet that the latest book, Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution, has knocked even Harry Potter off the best of the bestsellers list.

Well someone else who did it was Ann Leslie, and she's here to tell us why. And I'm also joined by someone who definitely would not do it, Lucille Daniels, one of our leading dieticians.

Welcome both. Ann, I've always imagined that a top correspondent like you burn so many calories you didn't need to diet.

ANN LESLIE: Oh come on, and you said did the Atkins. I'm in the throes of it. As Lucy pointed out, one of the side effects of Atkins is you stink like a Labrador's basket and Lucille said, oh I can smell you, you know.

LUCILLE DANIELS: Nail varnish.

ANN LESLIE: Nail varnish.

PETER SISSONS: But I make a serious point - you don't see any fat reporters in the Gulf for instance. They're all whizzing around.

ANN LESLIE: Well maybe, I mean they were designed by God to be human hairpins. I was never designed to be thin. I've only been thin twice in my life, the second time was when I spent four months in hospital with a serious illness, nothing to do with weight or smoking or any of those things.

And I lost four stone. I loved being thin. And then when I got better sticking to low fat things and five portions and all that, the weight would not go down again. So I thought right. I'm going to try this thing and I went to my doctor and he checked my kidneys and everything like that.

He said do it. He said don't do it for ever. There may be long-term problems. But you know, I'm nearly 103 now so how long-term are we thinking?

PETER SISSONS: But have you lost some weight on it.

ANN LESLIE: Nineteen pounds in just over five weeks.

PETER SISSONS: Well, Lucille.

ANN LESLIE: I've got another 28 to go.

PETER SISSONS: Lucille, what woman wouldn't settle for that

LUCILLE DANIELS: OK, it does work in the short term. I'm not disputing that. But as a nutrition scientist we have to look at the medium and the long-term effects and unfortunately we've got this massive obesity and overweight epidemic in the UK and all the studies, there aren't that many, a study of I think about 60 people that looked at the six-month effect of the Atkins Diet and another study that looked at the year effect of the diet and unfortunately most people do what Ann, I understand, has done all her life, is lost weight on a diet and regained it.

ANN LESLIE: Yes, but I would lose weight on sensible diets. The sort of things that the high priestesses of the nutritional movement like yourself.

LUCILLE DANIELS: I approve.

ANN LESLIE: Yes, I would lose some weight. I'd go on the treadmill and after a while my body simply refused to lose any more weight. And at least with this you have, I'm obviously not going to do it for ever, I'm not going to live for ever anyway.

But with this you get a good start, you do find the weight dropping off and you do find after the beginning of it a certain amount of energy coming back to you.

PETER SISSONS: Lucille, mightn't becoming thin on the Atkins diet be less dangerous than remaining fat.

LUCILLE DANIELS: Yes, studies to date show that most people regain that weight, and we know that weight cycling, this dieting and then bingeing and regaining the weight, actually isn't very good for your health. But what we're really concerned about is the longer-term consequence. We know that some foods are linked to living longer.

So people that eat, like the Mediterranean's, with lots of grains and fruits and veg and starchy foods, actually live longer and have less heart disease and cancers that kill us. So how as a dietician, speaking on behalf of the Dietetic Association, can I possibly recommend a diet that avoids all those foods that you know are linked to health?

ANN LESLIE: I love, I just flew back last night from the Middle East. I love Arab food, with all the pulses, the lentils and all the rest of it. And in the past when I've done various diets which were, did use those ingredients all the time. I used to actually put on weight.

LUCILLE DANIELS: But sometimes when you're eating - with your lifestyle I would think you eat out a lot, and we know that eating out ...

ANN LESLIE: No, I'm not going to grand restaurants. I admit that

LUCILLE DANIELS: This lifestyle - if we look at half the adults in the UK are overweight, and one in five are obese, it's a massive problem.

ANN LESLIE: Yes, but one of the reasons they are obese is because they're eating. A lot of them are eating low fat things. Now what's the great guru up there

PETER SISSONS: Obese from eating low fat things.

ANN LESLIE: Yes and if you look at the ingredients you will find because fat is what makes food tasty, is the manufacturers put sugar in and that's why, I think, and I find that I go out now and look at the ingredients of low fat ingredients have high sugar in them.

LUCILLE DANIELS: But most of the studies show people gain weight because they don't do any activity. If you eat too much food. And we know if you are a little bit more active you can effectively lose 10lb a year. But I see a lot of people and their weight gains, they go up a clothes size.

PETER SISSONS: We could all quote studies. Two recent studies in the New England Journal say Atkins works and it's safe, and gives you higher levels of good cholesterol.

LUCILLE DANIELS: Any weight loss will reduce your total cholesterol level but I think those studies also said that we should have caution because we don't know about the medium and the long term effects.

PETER SISSONS: Do you think it's dangerous?

LUCILLE DANIELS: I think it could be dangerous. I've actually seen two patients myself, one with renal failure, acute renal failure, kidney failure, because of being on the Atkins diet.

And somebody with dangerously high cholesterol. We know that it increases the risk of kidney stones, we know that it increases constipation and bad breath.

It's not dangerous until you need to have your Hemorrhoids dealt with and you have to undergo major surgery. And there's a problem with activity because I think often people on the Atkins diet can't exercise because they don't have enough energy.

PETER SISSONS: Do you have any problem with someone doing it short term? To lose 19lb?

LUCILLE DANIELS: If Ann can come off the Atkins diet and try and adopt a little bit more of a healthier diet and exercise I would say fantastic, but to revert to what was her problem in the first place, back in the 1960s when you started dieting, won't help. And it's this yo-yoing we'd like to avoid.

PETER SISSONS: Very quick last word Ann.

ANN LESLIE: The idea is that in fact this diet is a starvation diet. I have actually eaten more than I've ever eaten on any sensible diet in my life because I'm forced to. I am, OK my thighs are still like sofas and things like that, but I am not starving, in fact I feel sometimes I can't face another meal.

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