Transcript of Guma al-Gamati Interview

THE ANDREW MARR SHOW, GUMA AL-GAMATI

SEPTEMBER 4th 2011

ANDREW MARR:

And now to Libya where the new leadership have said that they're going to lay siege to those areas still under the control of pro-Gaddafi forces, and they've been given those forces until Saturday to surrender peacefully or face assault. Gaddafi himself of course remains a fugitive and there have been conflicting reports about where he is. Now earlier, I spoke to Guma al-Gamati, the transitional National Council's coordinator in Britain. I began by asking him if he and his colleagues believe that Gaddafi is still in Libya.

GUMA AL-GAMATI:

Yes, we strongly believe that Gaddafi and his sons, apart from the two who have already moved to Algeria, all the other sons are still in Libya. They are somewhere in that region between Sirte and Sabha in the South.

ANDREW MARR:

So what happens if and when Colonel Gaddafi's caught? Is it going to be the Libyans putting him on trial in Libya or will the International Criminal Court, the ICC, be involved possibly in Libya as well?

GUMA AL-GAMATI:

Our understanding is that the ICC will only put Gaddafi on trial for crimes committed over the last six months. Now, as we know very well that Gaddafi is responsible for a horrific catalogue of crimes committed over the last forty-two years, which he should stand for and answer for, and those can only be … he can only answer for those in a proper trial in Libya itself.

ANDREW MARR:

If Colonel Gaddafi and his sons offer to give up now, how would the transitional council react? If he wanted safe passage to another country, for instance. Is that kind of deal still available or has the time passed?

GUMA AL-GAMATI:

I think the time has definitely passed for that. This was offered to him by the NTC months ago, some three, four months ago, and he never took it up. I think also it's going to very difficult for Gaddafi and his sons now to find a safe haven or a country that will take them. Already neighbouring countries like Algeria, Chad, Niger have made it very clear that they will not allow Gaddafi or his sons or any of his top aides to come into their countries; and if they do, they will probably hand them over. Because we know that the ICC has issued formally two warrant arrests for Gaddafi and his son Saif, and a third for Abdullah Sanusi, the top intelligence person. So I think you know their choices are now very, very limited. I think the only thing they can face now is if they are apprehended, they will be arrested, they will be treated humanely, they will be kept safe, and then they will have to face a trial and answer for all the crimes they have been responsible for.

ANDREW MARR:

So how would a Libyan court deal with Colonel Gaddafi given Libyan law? Would he be jailed or presumably he'd be executed, would he, if he was found guilty?

GUMA AL-GAMATI:

That will be up to a court in due time, but I can assure you that the court will be fair and just and will meet all international standards and international monitors from human rights organisations and other reputable organisations, and the UN will be allowed to monitor things and it will be a fair trial - something that Gaddafi has never offered any Libyans who criticised him over the last forty-two years.

ANDREW MARR:

Of course there are many problems for the new Libyan authorities - not least getting money back into people's hands, getting money back into the banks. How's that going?

GUMA AL-GAMATI:

It's going quite well. The Paris conference obviously made the crucial decisions and stressed the need to unfreeze assets and pay money back quickly to the NTC to start spending it on salaries, food, fuel, healthcare, medicine and humanitarian aid. Also Britain have been very helpful. Crucially Britain started releasing a total sum of 1.86 billion of Libyan dinar currency, which it held back six months ago and did not send to Gaddafi wisely, which was a very good move then; and now Britain has already started sending this Libyan currency money and this is going to be very, very handy and it's already now in circulation in the Libyan Central Bank and it's going to be used to pay salaries straightaway.

ANDREW MARR:

There's been a bit of confusion about whether countries which have helped overthrow Gaddafi, like France and Britain, will get special preferential deals - particularly when it comes to oil - or whether it will be an open, transparent process. Can you clear up that confusion at all?

GUMA AL-GAMATI:

Well look, Andrew, the new Libya is going to be a democratic Libya. It's going to be all about transparency, accountability and fair practice and competitiveness. In that sense, I think any contracts will be awarded based on transparent processes and mechanisms. That means any contracts should be awarded based on merit and competitiveness and not on any political favouritism.

ANDREW MARR:

And finally you've set out a clear timetable for the move to democratic elections, but Libya has only had one election in its history. It's hardly got a history of democratic structures and political parties. How are you going to be able to create those parties, those structures in time?

GUMA AL-GAMATI:

Well obviously people will have to be educated and educate themselves very quickly. We need a culture, a democratic culture to start taking shape and take root. It's true for the last forty-two years we never had political parties, Libyans never experienced voting, they don't even know what a ballot box looks like. But we do have a transition period of twenty months. We think that should be sufficient to allow for people to understand how they can go about setting up political parties and debate and resolve things peacefully and you know resolve their differences through debate and so on, and I think people are looking forward to practise this right. You know political participation has been denied for Libyans for a long time. I think everybody is very keen and eager to fully participate in the political process through peaceful means and that is through elections and voting and so on.

ANDREW MARR:

Well you've got a very busy and exciting time ahead. Thank you very much indeed for joining us.

GUMA AL-GAMATI:

Thank you.

INTERVIEW ENDS

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