PLEASE NOTE "THE ANDREW MARR SHOW" MUST BE CREDITED IF ANY PART OF THIS TRANSCRIPT IS USED Mariella Frostrup interviewed Mariella Frostrup interviewed former Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: In a few weeks time, Ed Miliband will celebrate his first anniversary as Labour Leader. His MPs were pleased with his performance over the phone-hacking saga, so will that embolden him to push through new policies and reforms to the party? There's talk, for example, of moves to curb the influence of the trade unions, which could cause a fight at the party conference next month. I'm joined now by someone who's been round that particular course before: the former Deputy Leader, Lord Prescott. Welcome John. LORD PRESCOTT: Good morning. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: Lovely to have you here. Arguably Ed Miliband's handling of the phone-hacking scandal has been his finest hour to date. He even got the public inquiry that he was campaigning for. Do you think in terms of that whole phone-hacking scandal that the truth is finally going to out? LORD PRESCOTT: Yes, I think it is. When I was told by the police for a couple of years there was no phone-hacking of my messages, I didn't believe them and went to the court. But now we have a new inquiry under Commissioner Akers and she's getting on with the job. She started by apologising to me and saying there were forty-four taps. So the big question is why did they ignore all that evidence? And I'm glad now we've got an inquiry, which Ed called for. And I think what he's done is identified what he thinks his job is with the Labour Party - is to look for the ordinary people, look at the vested interests and power and make change. So reform is very much associated with Ed. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: Do you think the result of this inquiry will be journalists and the police going to jail? I mean I know you were very critical of the police investigation, and of course this week with Heather Mills' allegations against the Daily Mirror - further proof, I suppose, that the net goes far, far wider? LORD PRESCOTT: Well I've always thought it far wider than that, leaving aside the Heather Mills case. What you've got to look is what the commissioner said in 2006...8 when the information commissioner looked at all this tapping for illegal information, found there were thirty papers, three hundred odd journalists and many hundreds of thousands of pounds being paid out. We ignored that evidence, quite frankly, and now we're living with the consequences of just what has gone on for a long time. We've got an inquiry, we've got … the Press Complaints Commission has got to be reformed - pretty useless under the two previous commissions we had there - and we've got the inquiry and we've got something now that means it will be no longer business as usual whether for the press, whether for the police and the relationship between those two. Fundamental reform is under way and I'm pleased that Ed was leading it. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: You mentioned the Press Complaints Commission there and the sort of toothlessness, apparent toothlessness of their approach. Do you think that that sort of heralds the end of self-regulation? Do you think we have to look at a new system now? I mean how should it be reformed? LORD PRESCOTT: Well we in fact lost the opportunity in 1997 when the Human Rights Act came in, which said there has to be an independent body. The press fought bitterly against it and all the editors, and we compromised and said okay, if you believe you can do it on self-regulation, let us see and we'll judge it over the time. Well we've got the answer to that now. They need to have a form of regulated body. That is not state control of the press. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: (over) But what sort of regulation are you talking about? LORD PRESCOTT: (over) Well I'm coming to that. In 1997 we did say let's have a body that is independent, can have editors on it, but not the majority in controlling it - I mean the other two involved in it were like puppets on a string controlled by the editors - so we can have an independent body, it can have some form of sanction and the requirement to consult within. Now that debate's going on. But what we can't have is the one that was totally controlled in the self-regulatory manner. We need to go back to what was proposed in 1997. I think we can build on that structure, so we get a proper balance between the issue of public interests and private interests which the editors of this country outside the Guardian and say the Independent have totally ignored. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: Would you be auditioning for that role, John? LORD PRESCOTT: (laughs) That's an interesting point. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: Would you be interested in taking on the … I mean will it still be the Press Complaints Commission? LORD PRESCOTT: (over) That would be really throwing the cat among the pigeons, wouldn't it? I wouldn't mind the thought of it. (laughs) MARIELLA FROSTRUP: Just asking, you know. Talking of Ed Miliband - of course he had the success with the whole hacking scandal, but it was very much regarded as about time; he needed to put a success under his belt. Up until this issue blew up, I mean he really didn't have much to crow about, did he? LORD PRESCOTT: (over) Yeah but hang on, he's only been in the job over twelve months. All of a sudden you want him transformed. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: A week is a long time in politics. A year is an eternity. LORD PRESCOTT: Well it might be, but if you're the Leader of the Labour Party and you want to make change and you stand for reform, as he does, it'll take you more than a week and it'll be very controversial because he's not about reform for trade unions and relationship with the Labour Party; he wants reforms in the areas of energy pricing, supermarkets - all these areas where concentrated power is tending to work against the ordinary people. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: Well let's talk about concentrated power being perceived to work against the ordinary people and let's talk about the unions because that does seem to be where he's turning his gaze next. Do you think that this is an issue that really does need looking at and urgent action? LORD PRESCOTT: Look, you're always involved in it. In fact I spoke … MARIELLA FROSTRUP: What do you mean you're always involved in it? LORD PRESCOTT: Well in the sense one member one vote was some time ago - what about ten, thirteen years ago. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: (over) Yeah, I knew you'd bring that up because that was a glory moment. LORD PRESCOTT: (over) No, no, but that was about reform. It was an argument about the block vote and the constituency members. That argument continues now whether it's in the conference, whether it's in policymaking; and in that relationship, there is those arguments still to be done. So Ed is now set up for the rewording and looking at the party conference. It involves the trade unions, it involves the constituency. And there is a feeling you know in the constituencies that perhaps the power of the trade unions has been you know loaded a bit against the constituency. When I stood for Treasurer, I got 63 per cent of the actual votes of the constituency; hardly anything from the unions because three or four general secretaries decided that I wasn't going to be the one and, therefore, didn't ballot their members. So there is time for change. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: (over) So you would … So you would support a reduction in their vote in terms of the conference? LORD PRESCOTT: I would support the …? MARIELLA FROSTRUP: Would you support a reduction in their vote, in the unions … LORD PRESCOTT: (over) Well I think the debate should go on and that was my argument … MARIELLA FROSTRUP: (over) Well the debate has to come to a conclusion. Where would you like to see it headed? LORD PRESCOTT: (over) No, no, that debate, the balance of it … MARIELLA FROSTRUP: (over) I mean 90 per cent of Labour's funding at the moment comes from the unions. LORD PRESCOTT: (over) The conclu… the conclusion will come at conference. That's our constitution. Now Ed will have to put these arguments forward. And there may be resistance to them - there was against one member one vote - and then the conference will make a decision. These are constitutional changes that Ed's talking about. They're always controversial. But he's a man of reform. He's only been in the job twelve months and he's making some headway. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: But don't you think that one of the things that the general public have pretty much made clear (and this relates back to the phone-hacking scandal) is that they don't want their political leaders to be in thrall to anybody - not to media barons … LORD PRESCOTT: (over) Absolutely. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: … and certainly not to the trades unions? Now with 90 per cent of the Labour Party's funding coming from the trade unions, you know turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Are the unions going to be taking part in their own as it were decline of power? LORD PRESCOTT: Well I heard that when we had one member one vote. We had a vote and the party decided it wanted a change and it changed the block vote in that area. But you know it's not entirely in our area these changes are coming. There is a Kelly Report, Standards Commissioner, who's looking at the financing of individual members of political parties. Now that's going to raise some very controversial issues about political levy paying members. So reforms are coming from other areas. What Ed's trying to do is to encompass it in a modern party in modern circumstances and he's making some headway on it. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: And is he in the country because you have been tweeting, haven't you, quite a lot (Lord Prescott laughs) about the absence of some other party members? LORD PRESCOTT: (over) It's unbelievable. Look, when every August for ten years … People think August is a quiet time. It isn't. I had the tsunami, I had the Omagh bombing, I had terrorist attacks - the 7/11. All those occurred on my watch, right, and you have to deal with them. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: No wonder they're not leaving you in charge anymore. You're a disaster magnet! LORD PRESCOTT: (laughs) But it all … No, it happens in August. You're seeing it now. But what we did, Tony and I, we had all ministers to give us their holiday times. We insisted there was a senior minister about all the time. Junior ministers also. I had one junior minister ring me up and said, "I can do it from down in Cornwall on the beach." "No you bloody well can't. Get up here! I want a full team sitting in cabinet as we used to meet, discussing the issues." And those crises can be handled. How the heck does Osborne now, nine or ten hours difference, have a telephone call half-way through the night … MARIELLA FROSTRUP: (over) Well it depend … LORD PRESCOTT: (over) … talking about a crisis? MARIELLA FROSTRUP: Thank you very much, John … John Prescott. LORD PRESCOTT: (over) I've just heard the Liberal Democrat who is the actual spokesman for the Business Secretary say there's not really a crisis. I don't know what world he's living in. MARIELLA FROSTRUP: I think he did talk about the crisis. But thank you very much, John Prescott. We get the message. I suppose George Osborne is hoping that any disasters happen on the American side of the timeline. But thank you very much, Lord Prescott. LORD PRESCOTT: Get back on the water ride. INTERVIEW ENDS
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