PLEASE NOTE "THE ANDREW MARR SHOW" MUST BE CREDITED IF ANY PART OF THIS TRANSCRIPT IS USED On Sunday 24th April Andrew Marr interviewed Deputy Leader of the Liberal Democrats Simon Hughes MP ANDREW MARR: And so to that remarkable coalition row. Simon Hughes is the Liberal Democrat's Deputy Leader and he joins me now. Good morning. SIMON HUGHES: Good morning and Happy Easter. ANDREW MARR: Happy Easter to you. And on this Happy Easter, you are in coalition with a bunch of liars and dishonourable people that you're getting very angry with, we read. SIMON HUGHES: Well I think we're justified in being angry and it's for this reason I brought with me, to prove that this is not just us inventing. This is a leaflet which is produced by the No campaign, and it says 'the cost of AV is £250 million'. And it asserts that there are 130 million on election vote counting machines. Untrue. There is no new election vote counting machine. It is dishonest in that respect. It's dishonest in another section, which says the only vote which counts is Nick Clegg's, and it makes the point that change to AV means coalition government. That doesn't follow at all. I think that the people responsible ought to back off, own up that they are inventing things to try to win the campaign for the status quo, and argue on the facts and the merits of their case - which is a poor one - rather than trying to frighten people into keeping the present position. ANDREW MARR: I can't immediately see the Prime Minister coming out of his constituency house and saying that he's been telling porky pies about AV. But putting that to one side, do you think that he has broken an agreement, David Cameron, by intervening himself so personally and so repeatedly in this campaign? SIMON HUGHES: No, I'm not concerned. He must play whatever part in the campaign he likes. But I'm very clear that the No campaign, the authorised official campaign, is telling untruths. Now the remedy, the only remedy available either is that they own up to the fact they're untruths or that we seek to get this corrected. We can't get it done before the election. I propose to go to the Electoral Commission, to ask how in the future they can make sure we don't have untruthful statements in official campaigns circulated around the country. It seems to me that we need to try to get the message across. But in the meantime, I think we need to dispute the facts. We need to dispute the fact that this campaign, the No vote is the only way you keep the BNP out. Actually the BNP desperately want … the British National Party desperately want the No campaign to win because it's a way of allowing a … ANDREW MARR: (over) It looks like it is going to win, doesn't it? SIMON HUGHES: Well it doesn't. The latest polls are 2% between the two campaigns. I think the Yes campaign can win and I think the people who've always argued for reform - the Labour Party, the vast majority of people in the Labour Party, the Greens, the Nationalists, young people who've always said they want a change, the faith groups, the Muslim Council have said they're in favour, and the Tories because there are Tories campaigning for a change - all of us now need to get out there and say together for heaven's sake move out of the 19th century politics into the 21st century. ANDREW MARR: Yes. In ordinary times, for politicians to accuse other politicians of deceit, lying, smears is pretty strong stuff. But you are accusing your coalition partners of doing this, and I wonder whether it can be business as usual on May 6th, May 7th? SIMON HUGHES: Well let's see what the fallout will be. I'm concentrating at the moment - one, on winning the campaign for the Yes vote; to move to a modern political system, which means you have representative constit… ANDREW MARR: (over) But sorry, you can't accuse the Prime Minister of lying and misinformation and deceit one week and then carry on as if nothing has happened the following week. Or if you do, it'll look terribly cynical. SIMON HUGHES: Andrew, let me deal with that. I'm just saying there's an order of priorities. ANDREW MARR: Sure. SIMON HUGHES: We've got ten days left of the campaigning for the local elections, for the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland, the referendum. The first campaign is to make sure we win the Yes vote if possible. And there are lots of people out there who haven't decided. I'd just make a plea this morning for people to look at the facts. And if you want a proper representative system and if you want an honest system because the present system is dishonest, it actually means people don't vote according to their wish, then let's vote for the Yes group. Now after … ANDREW MARR: (over) We've got both camps making their case on the programme, so … SIMON HUGHES: (over) After 5th May … The coalition is a coalition for five years. That's the deal, so that doesn't change. ANDREW MARR: But how can you go back to ordinary you know day to day affairs with people that you have accused of being liars? SIMON HUGHES: Well we'll see what the fallout of that is. People have to … ANDREW MARR: Do you think the coalition can carry on as it has been? SIMON HUGHES: Well the coalition will carry on for five years. I'm clear about that. That's the deal we did in the interests of the British people. We have to hold firm to that. What would have been the alternative? A minority Tory government. I have to tell you there is a huge benefit to Britain in having the Liberal Democrats with two-thirds of our manifesto introduced as a result of the coalition. So the coalition will carry on. But, for example, if the Electoral Commission pick up an inquiry and look into these things, then they may make a very strong report suggesting that the No campaign has been dishonest. They may … ANDREW MARR: And what would be the effect of that, do you think? SIMON HUGHES: Well I hope there might be public rebukes for those who have said things that are untrue. I hope there might be systems in place that prevent publicly funded or information being put out as part of an official campaign that is wrong. ANDREW MARR: So … SIMON HUGHES: And I'll just appeal finally to people like Baroness Warsi who has been inventing facts, just to say that in the heat of the campaign she got carried away and now we are going to have for the last ten days factual information and not dishonest information. ANDREW MARR: So the Chairman of the Tory Party has been inventing things, telling lies? SIMON HUGHES: She has been arguing, for example, that a change would advance people like the British National Party. It's absolutely the opposite: they are wanting the status quo. So she knows that they are not supporting what she says. It's the Tories … ANDREW MARR: So in the weeks ahead, you will be sitting down discussing things like university access alongside people you regard as untrustworthy liars and smearers? SIMON HUGHES: On this issue. On this issue, for whatever reason, some people in the leadership of the Tory Party have got carried away by the No cam… ANDREW MARR: (over) Including the Prime Minister. Including the Prime Minister? SIMON HUGHES: Well I haven't heard him say the things that are in this leaflet. I've heard Baroness Warsi say that the BNP would be … ANDREW MARR: (over) The Prime Minister has discussed the question of voting machines. He said "these very expensive voting machines", so he said that. SIMON HUGHES: Well if he said that, then that is completely inaccurate. There are no voting machines. Everybody knows there'll be no voting machines, so that's … ANDREW MARR: So he would be deliberately lying? SIMON HUGHES: Well I don't know whether it's deliberately lying or not, but he's wrong about that and he ought to accept there is no change. And I hope that even at this late stage people who have been pedalling untruths say that's not where we ought to go. Now after 5th, we're civilised individuals, we're in a government for five years. We're going to deliver Liberal Democrat priorities. We're going to get on at making sure that the health service reforms are the right ones, not the wrong ones. There's plenty of work to do and we'll do it. ANDREW MARR: Do you think that if you don't get this AV vote through and if you have a bad time at the local opinion polls, you have to go back to the Conservatives and as it were ask for more political concessions or more political help? SIMON HUGHES: Well I'm an optimistic, as you know, by nature, and I think we will win or can win the referendum campaign. You'll also see us winning some seats in the local elections as well as potentially losing some. You'll probably see us winning councils we don't currently control. Out there on the ground the people, our people, our supporters are fighting … So I'm not assuming that May 5th will be some dreadful doomsday as you present, but I'm clear that we will go on fighting our corner. And the really good thing about this campaign is it's made sure the Liberal Democrats stand up for what we believe in and nobody will think we're Tories anymore. ANDREW MARR: For the first time for a while, you may be thinking? (laughs) SIMON HUGHES: Well no, it's always been, it's always been the case … ANDREW MARR: Alright. SIMON HUGHES: … but nobody can say in the future that we and the Tories are the same. ANDREW MARR: Okay. Simon Hughes, thank you very much indeed. SIMON HUGHES: Thank you very much. INTERVIEW ENDS
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