Transcript of Douglas Alexander interview

On Sunday 23rd January Andrew Marr interviewed Shadow Foreign Secretary Douglas Alexander MP.

Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

ANDREW MARR:

Alan Johnson's departure as Shadow Chancellor didn't just end a venerable frontbench career; it provoked one of the most significant Labour reshuffles in years, whether in government or in opposition. The appointment of the new Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, may prove to be as defining a moment for Labour as the outcome of last year's leadership contest. But another former ally of Gordon Brown joins the top team. I'm joined now by the new Shadow Foreign Secretary, now in the inner shadow cabinet, Douglas Alexander. Mr Alexander, welcome.

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

Thank you.

ANDREW MARR:

It's already being raised in the papers, and it's been the gossip at Westminster too, that this reshuffle effectively pushes Labour a bit to the Left; that in Ed Balls and yourself up there as well, you have got almost all of Gordon Brown's former team running the Labour Party.

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

Well, listen, I did work for Gordon Brown. It was Tony Blair who appointed me to the cabinet. I ran David Miliband's leadership campaign. That reveals that some of these labels …

ANDREW MARR:

Don't quite work.

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

… sometimes obscure more than they reveal. What lessons do all of us of this new generation draw about the past though? Certainly that the era of Blair and Brown is over, but also that era of division and of factionalism did the Labour Party a lot of damage. The lessons that I actually draw is that we do need to be economically credible in order to be electorally viable, we do need to pull together as a team, and we need to be absolutely clear that we're appealing to broad support right across the United Kingdom. And I think I share that ambition with our leader, Ed Miliband.

ANDREW MARR:

And that means that you have to be candid about the mistakes that were made in the past in terms of levels of spending before the crisis hit, and also clear that cuts do need to happen even if you would make them slightly more slowly than the government?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

Well in my old brief of work and pensions, I was very clear that we weren't opposing every cut; and that actually even in an area like welfare, we would have to recognise it had to bear a share of responsibility for dealing with the deficit. And we do need to deal with the deficit. But in this very studio last week, Ed Miliband made very clear that we are not claiming we got everything right when we look back to those thirteen years in power, and we do recognise that there needs to be a new approach which both has a different approach to growth in jobs, where we think that frankly the Conservatives are getting it wrong, but we do also need to deal with the deficit.

ANDREW MARR:

Ed Balls, however, has been extremely forthright in the past about we don't need to be you know cutting nearly so fast, it's all overblown, it's absolutely unnecessary. Now he's changed his tune, but do we believe him?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

Well he said on the first day in office as Shadow Chancellor that he accepts the position that Ed set out in the studio last week: that if we were in government, we would be halving the deficit over four years. But he's also been very clear in the newspapers this morning that he genuinely thinks - and I completely agree with him - that George Osborne is making choices that will mean a longer dole queue, higher welfare bills, and actually give us more difficult circumstances to deal with rather than a more straightforward approach, the more balanced approach that Labour would have taken.

ANDREW MARR:

And yet you are following, broadly speaking, the Alistair Darling approach to the cuts and so on, which means that within you know a few weeks time, this year, a Labour government (had we had one) would have started to make substantial cuts, and that remains the position.

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

That remains the position. But equally let's remember under Alistair's tenure, we were in a position where the British economy was growing when we left office, and actually the two economic indicators that changed was that borrowing came in lower and growth came in higher. That's why we think George Osborne simply has got it wrong, and the price of George Osborne's errors are going to be paid by families right across the country. We just think it's wrong, for example, that Britain's families are asked to make a larger contribution to deficit reduction than Britain's banks. It's just daft.

ANDREW MARR:

So what overall do you think the effect of this reshuffle's going to be on the tone and the mood and the positioning of the Labour opposition?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

Well I don't think anybody can deny that the loss from the frontbench of as significant a figure as Alan Johnson is a loss for any political party - not just because of an extraordinary life story, a big contribution at the top of British politics, but also intellect, judgement and frankly good humour. We're going to miss him. But …

ANDREW MARR:

So that's the downside.

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

But there is a new team in place. Ed's made his decision in terms of the personnel, and I think that we are determined to pull together, leave behind some of the problems of the past, and start anticipating what the questions that Labour needs to be answering that people will be asking of us in the next three, four or five years. Listen, all the headlines are about people being angry and indignant. I think that the real challenge for Labour is not just to express anger, but to offer answers; not just to be a fighting opposition, but a credible alternative. That was true last week. It remains true this week.

ANDREW MARR:

And what about internal anger and internal opposition because there was a dreadful record of sniping and back biting and briefing? You were a victim of it yourself - said to be from Ed Balls. Has everybody learned the lessons of that, or are we going to see more of that?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

Well I sincerely hope so. I mean, listen, politics is a rough trade and we've all had our moments in the last ten or twenty years, but the truth is this: it damaged the Labour Party. And I think one of the real upsides, one of the very few upsides of the last six months - given that we're now in opposition - is that the leadership contest I think anticipated how we were going to take this party forward: far more civilised, far more collegial than anybody anticipated. I think we've got a united Labour Party, a united shadow cabinet, and a determination to learn the lessons certainly (because we took a bad beating), but actually to do the work and re-earn the trust of the British people.

ANDREW MARR:

And there is, as I understand it now, an inner shadow cabinet as it were of which you are part, and is that the body which is as it were going to ensure that the old Blair/Brown splits and so on don't reappear?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

Well, listen, there's always going to be discussions within the shadow cabinet, but it's not really a matter of structures as much as intention of culture. And I think most of us, certainly I learned the lesson from those thirteen years, that that kind of division, briefing and factionalism has no place in the future of the Labour Party.

ANDREW MARR:

Before I come onto your new responsibility in foreign affairs, just one thought about what's in the news at the moment. How important do you think it is that the banks are broken up? I mean I know it's not your portfolio, but nonetheless you've been watching this very carefully, and we're now in a moment when the future of the entire British banking system is up for grabs.

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

Well you're right and that's why I think it's right that the Banking Commission take forward its work. There were some interesting comments from Sir John Vickers yesterday. Listen, Ed Miliband said in this very seat last week that one of the things that we didn't get right was the regulatory system and the supervision of the banks. That's why it is important that we take time to consider exactly the means by which we try and ensure through our regulatory system that we never again get into a position where the British public are going to have to bail out Britain's banks. Now I don't want to pre-judge that in terms of distinctions between retail and merchant banking, the size of the banks; but on the other hand, I am very clear that we do need a fundamentally different approach than the approach that overwhelmed regulatory systems right around the world over recent years.

ANDREW MARR:

In the recent by-election, and you know you were also involved in a lot of Labour campaigning in the past and the structure of that, what seems to have happened is that quite a lot of votes went from the Conservative candidate to the Liberal Democrat candidate. How concerned are you that you may be facing not as it were Tory and Lib-Dem, but coalition candidates in the future and that we're going to see a reshaping of politics?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

I'm not sure. I'm sure that's a question you'll probably ask Nick Clegg in a few minutes time.

ANDREW MARR:

It may well be.

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

But, listen, I think the difficulty for those Liberal Democrats who still see themselves as being of the Centre Left is that they're now locked into a project and a narrative of the Centre Right. And in that sense our job certainly is with an open heart and an open mind to work with them to try and make good some of the bad decisions that the coalition government's taking, but on the other hand to hold them to account at the ballot box for the fact that the electoral logic of the Liberal Democrats now is pointing towards a Centre Right future for Britain, not a Centre Left future for Britain. And that's why I think we've got 50,000 new members (many of them Liberal Democrats) who have joined the Labour Party since the last election, and I think we can look forward with confidence to being once again the natural progressive home for people who do want a different future from a Conservative Britain.

ANDREW MARR:

Now in your in-tray as Shadow Foreign Secretary, I don't suppose anything is more important at the moment than Iran. The talks have gone badly yet again and people are talking again about alternatives. One of your predecessors, Jack Straw, said I think that it was going to be inconceivable that there could be any military threat against Iran. What's your thinking about it because, on the other hand, you might say Tony Blair was very tough on the subject as well in his Chilcot Inquiry evidence?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

He was. But, listen, I've been fairly trenchant, even in this interview, in my criticisms of the Conservatives, but this is one area where I think the government is getting it right. I stand foursquare behind the government in the support for the E3 plus 3 process. Now, alas, we didn't get the outcome we wanted in Turkey.

ANDREW MARR:

That's Europe plus …

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

Europe plus the Americans and others. But frankly I think there are two ways forward. It's a twin-track approach in Iran. Firstly diplomacy, and that's why I support the continuing process. But also we need sanctions, and I would pay due credit to the work that Cathy Ashton's done in the European Union in strengthening the sanction's regime against Iran even in recent months. That seems to me to be the way forward.

ANDREW MARR:

And using force is a possibility, nonetheless, or is it something that's completely off the table?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

All of my focus is on the diplomatic approach and on the sanctions approach. That seems to me to be the responsible way forward.

ANDREW MARR:

Douglas Alexander, for now thank you very much indeed.

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER:

Thank you.

INTERVIEW ENDS

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