On Sunday 12 September Andrew Marr interviewed London Mayor Boris Johnson. Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.
ANDREW MARR:
When Boris Johnson first decided to stand as Mayor of London a few years back, there was some doubt as to whether he was temperamentally suited to running a big city - dealing with the bureaucracy and the nuances of transport policy and planning and everything like that. Well now he says things are going broadly well and he has decided to seek a second term, and he's with me this morning. Good morning, Boris Johnson. BORIS JOHNSON: Good morning, good morning. ANDREW MARR: You have expressed some concerns about government immigration policy talking about what's important to London, this question of non-EU migrants, people of high skills and so on. In the past London's been an almost open city for them, hasn't it? BORIS JOHNSON: Well I mean you don't want to exaggerate, but what certainly took place in the last you know twelve years or however long the Labour government was in was that they totally took the brakes off. They decided to let huge numbers of people in more or less as a matter of policy, as an economic doctrine. ANDREW MARR: Sorry, I'm talking about the people at the top. BORIS JOHNSON: Yeah and that had a big effect also at the top. And historically, you're absolutely right, I mean London's been a great entrepot city from the very beginning - founded by a bunch of pushy Italian immigrants in 43AD. It's always been that way. And to a great extent the London economy does depend on talent - on talent being able to migrate in from overseas. ANDREW MARR: (over) Are you concerned now … BORIS JOHNSON: The problem has been, the problem has been that there's a sort of confusion between the big you know Labour decision to lax completely and to have no real grip on the thing - which has I'm afraid produced a huge political backlash against immigration overall and people have been you know very understandably very concerned about erosion of their you know housing rights as they see it, people not taking notice - all the problems that immigration brings with it. ANDREW MARR: (over) Sure - so that's the one side. BORIS JOHNSON: And the reaction has been by the coalition government to introduce the cap, and it's perfectly reasonable to try to get a grip on it. The problem is that this means that you know accountancy firms, there are film firms, banks, all these lawyers, all these sorts of firms actually are finding it very, very difficult at the moment to get in some of the people who you really need to keep the London economy going. So that's why I've written to the Home Secretary and I've said let's have a discussion about this. Let's see what we can do to you know address that particular problem - the tier one and the tier two applicants who are finding it very difficult to get in at the moment - without you know letting the brakes off again. ANDREW MARR: Any sign of movement on this? Do you think you'll win your case? BORIS JOHNSON: Well I hope that people will see the case and see that this is an idea that is sensitive to the problems of immigration, but also realistic about what you need in London to keep the economy moving. ANDREW MARR: And speaking of the economy moving in London, what about the danger from very, very fast cuts because this is a gamble, isn't it? I mean … BORIS JOHNSON: Very fast carts? ANDREW MARR: Cuts. BORIS JOHNSON: Cuts, right. ANDREW MARR: I'll come onto carts and bicycles later. But cuts. Because this is you know in the nature of it a gamble. If you get the deficit down, you might get a stronger increase in the economy, a revival later on … BORIS JOHNSON: Yuh. ANDREW MARR: … but you might go into double dip recession. BORIS JOHNSON: Yuh. I mean I think patently that's something that George is obviously going to be sensitive about and the Treasury's going to be thinking about how to make sure that they do it in a … They're absolutely right to make cuts and you know we in the government in London have been making you know very substantial cuts for the last two years and you've got to cut waste. I mean I think I'm right in saying that … ANDREW MARR: (over) But this is going much further than cutting waste. BORIS JOHNSON: … the overall headcount of TFL, Transport for London, 22,000, we're already in the process of taking out 8% already. I don't think there's any part of government across Whitehall that's moved so far and so fast to make those cuts. The point I'm making to government is that you've just got to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. You know this is a sensitive time for the economy. There are, you know you look at what's happening to house prices. There are some interesting signals out there. And what you don't … ANDREW MARR: (over) Are you kind of worried that we're on the edge of … BORIS JOHNSON: No, no. But what you don't want to do is get into a position where you're sort of doctrinally locked in to doing things that might actually you know tip you over the edge. I don't think George is anywhere near being in that position. I think he's done … If you look at what he's achieved in the last few months since becoming Chancellor, what the coalition have achieved, they've basically knocked on the head the idea that Britain is facing some sort of sovereign debt crisis. You know that's gone. We've been moved out of the Greek camp, the Italian. We're no longer in that camp. Long-term interest rates are very, very low. Now my point is that you've got to look at that and you've got to think in those circumstances how fast do you cut? And, above all, you've got to make sure that you protect those things that are going to deliver long-term growth not just for London but for the whole of the UK economy. The London economy drives jobs … ANDREW MARR: (over) So we're talking here really about … BORIS JOHNSON: … it drives growth around the UK. ANDREW MARR: We're talking about Crossrail? We're talking in your terms about modernising the London underground - those kind of things? BORIS JOHNSON: Absolutely. And you know there are, over the last few months there have been some very, very tough conversations going on about Crossrail, about the tube, about transport budgets generally, and … ANDREW MARR: (over) And you've won those battles basically? BORIS JOHNSON: Well you know … ANDREW MARR: Have you? BORIS JOHNSON: … we won't know that until October 20th. We won't know until the fat lady sings. But clearly it is something that I think matters hugely not just to London, but to the whole of the UK. Because basically if people are left at bus-stops in London because the bus system has been brutally cut, thanks to the Treasury, then you know you cannot dr… This is the biggest private sector part of the whole UK economy. It drives jobs. The tax we export from London is vital for the rest of the UK. ANDREW MARR: What about housing and housing benefit cuts … BORIS JOHNSON: Yeah. ANDREW MARR: … because that's another huge problem? BORIS JOHNSON: It is a problem, and you know there are I think more than 100,000 families in London who are potentially affected by this cap on housing benefit and you have to think very carefully about how you administer such a change. You know 17,000 families could be forced to move. I think that is ineq… I mean I think that's too hard and it would be very difficult to force that in I think in a precipitant way without you know real, real difficult… real, real difficulty. ANDREW MARR: (over) Well except that that has been announced, that's been announced already. That's not up for discussion. That's a decision taken. BORIS JOHNSON: (over) Yuh, but … Sure, but you …there is a problem. Of course there's a problem. You've got lots of landlords who are ripping off housing benefit. You've got to do something about it. What I'm saying is that you could have transitional measures particularly for London where the cost of housing is so much higher and you have particular difficulties for some families. ANDREW MARR: (over) Can you win that argument with the Treasury? BORIS JOHNSON: You know and I think … ANDREW MARR: You're being very diplomatic about George Osborne … BORIS JOHNSON: (over) Yeah of course I'm being diplomatic. ANDREW MARR: Nonetheless you are clearly concerned about the dangers of things turning down and cuts being made too fast. BORIS JOHNSON: There is a you know a risk always that when you're making savings, when you're making cuts, you will do so in such a way as you know to do long-term damage to the ability of the economy to compete. And I've got…you know people say to me, "What's your priority?" My priority is very, very clear. My priority is to get the best possible deal for London. Not just because I happen to be Mayor of London, but because actually I think it's the right thing for the economy and for the country. ANDREW MARR: (over) I think it was said - possibly wrongly - that when it came to things like Crossrail and this absolutely crucial project, you have to stand up in front of Londoners when you want to be re-elected and say, "Look, you know I got this through. I did what I promised to do". If those went down, Boris would go down. BORIS JOHNSON: Well you know that would be frankly … you know that would be obviously politically tragic for me, but so what? The worst thing would be that it would be the wrong thing to do for London and for the future competitiveness of this country. Crossrail … People, you know most of your viewers won't have a clue what Crossrail is, alas. It is going to be a wonderful new railway running east-west, which will greatly speed up transit from Heathrow through to the City and beyond. And if you're going to put in high speed rail, which we're going to do in this country, you need a Crossrail in London to cope with the influx of passengers. ANDREW MARR: You heard Bob Crow perhaps earlier on in full flood … BORIS JOHNSON: I did hear Bob, yuh. ANDREW MARR: … and making the point that the origins of the crisis started in the banking sector … BORIS JOHNSON: Yuh. ANDREW MARR: … and people behaving extremely badly there. What's your message to the bankers? BORIS JOHNSON: Well I mean just on what Bob Crow had to say, I didn't agree with his analysis of the tube strike last week. ANDREW MARR: There's a surprise. BORIS JOHNSON: Well you know I didn't agree with that. I don't think that he is being commonsense… I don't think the RMT leadership is right in their view of what we're trying to do with the ticket office. I think in very tough financial circumstances, you've got to make sensible economies. We're trying to get some staff without any compulsory redundancies out of the ticket offices onto the station … onto the platforms where they can be a real … And I think this strike is politically motivated. On the bankers … ANDREW MARR: Yuh. BORIS JOHNSON: … I think actually he has a point, okay? You're surprised I say that. I think he has a point. And in the sense that I think that a couple of months down the track, you know there are going to be big bonus stories again … ANDREW MARR: Yes. BORIS JOHNSON: … and those stories are going to coincide with people feeling that the cuts are starting to bite. And I think it would be a very good thing if the financial services industry, which is vital for our city and for our country, if they were aware … ANDREW MARR: (over) Thought politically? BORIS JOHNSON: If they start to think politically now about big, visible ways that these people - who as Bob Crow rightly says were collectively implicated in the dawn of this crisis - these people should start to think about big, visible ways they can show their commitment to the city that hosts them and that is proud to host them and benefits from them. ANDREW MARR: (over) Don't take the benefits, don't take the dosh from them. BORIS JOHNSON: And they can think of ways to demonstrate that they want to bridge the poverty gap, that they can do things to boost literacy around London … ANDREW MARR: (over) Because otherwise … BORIS JOHNSON: … put loads of money into bike hire - fine. ANDREW MARR: But otherwise they'll be broken up. That's the danger for them, isn't it? BORIS JOHNSON: That's a matter for the Chancellor. But there is a political issue coming down the track which they need to be aware of. ANDREW MARR: Let me ask you … BORIS JOHNSON: I will … I will … Listen, I will mount the barricades to defend and support a strong financial services industry in London. That's my job. But those distinguished, intelligent, highly remunerated people have got to understand the political consequences of doing nothing about the huge bonuses they're about to receive. ANDREW MARR: Let me ask you about another political story coming down the tracks, which is the Andy Coulson phone hacking scandal. What is … BORIS JOHNSON: I think I'm better on London. ANDREW MARR: Well what's your own position about this? Just explain where you are on this. BORIS JOHNSON: I kind of … For me, this is one of those things that I look back in you know those blue remembered hills of yesteryear. This is something that is going on in Westminster and … ANDREW MARR: Your phone … You think your phone was probably hacked, wasn't it? BORIS JOHNSON: If you want my analysis of the whole thing … Yuh, I think some very nice policeman rang me up a couple of years ago to say that that was probably the case. My analysis is that an assortment of ex-Labour ministers have now miraculously discovered their principles about this matter having had five years since the story first broke whilst they were in government to get hot under the collar about it. They've now decided simply because Andy Coulson is in government that they were going to get in a great lather about this, which I think everybody else can see is fundamentally a very old story. ANDREW MARR: So you'd say leave Andy Coulson alone, he's doing a perfectly good job, and this is old stuff as far as you're concerned? BORIS JOHNSON: Look, I'm not aware of any single new fact that's been brought into the public domain that is apart from the Conservative victory or rather the coalition victory at the General Election that has I think prompted politically these Labour guys to have a go at it. ANDREW MARR: Are we ever going to see you back in the House of Commons? BORIS JOHNSON: Well you know I think one step at a time. All I've said at the moment is that I'm … ANDREW MARR: Sniff of cordite. BORIS JOHNSON: Being Mayor of London is the most fantastic job. It's far, far better than I possibly dreamed it could be. It's an extremely difficult and challenging job, but a wonderful job, and I want to keep doing it. ANDREW MARR: Boris Johnson, thank you very much indeed for joining us this morning. INTERVIEW ENDS
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