Walsh hopeful union talks will resume

On Sunday 23 May Andrew Marr interviewed BA chief executive Willie Walsh.

Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

BA chief executive Willie Walsh

ANDREW MARR:

The talks between British Airways and the Unite union came to an abrupt and unexpected halt yesterday, as we saw. Before protestors stormed the building where the meeting was being held, the two sides had been hard at it struggling over principles and details. Among the sticking points seemed to be travel perks, treatment of staff who took part in the last strike, and many more. So the question is: will they be able to return to the talks today? The stakes are pretty high because if they can't reach an agreement thousands and thousands of people have their travel plans disrupted and may decide not to fly with BA again. Well BA's Chief Executive Willie Walsh joins me now. Welcome. Thank you for coming in. What did it feel like yesterday? What actually happened?

WILLIE WALSH:

Well it was a surprise naturally.

ANDREW MARR:

You were just sitting there talking and?

WILLIE WALSH:

We weren't expecting a mob to turn up like that. But before that happened, there was another significant issue because I was shocked to learn as we were participating in these talks that Derek Simpson was sending out messages throughout.

ANDREW MARR:

The Twitter messages. I was going to ask you about those. You knew nothing about them?

WILLIE WALSH:

No. I have to say that really came as a surprise to me. You know I think that …

ANDREW MARR:

Did you think that was bad faith?

WILLIE WALSH:

Most definitely. I think that really does undermine the discussions that took place and I think it raises questions about how this trade union operates. You know I've been saying publicly that I think it's a dysfunctional trade union. I didn't mean that in the context of the relationship between Derek Simpson and Tony Woodley, but more around the relationship between the two general secretaries and the branch at the heart of this dispute. But the actions yesterday really did surprise me.

ANDREW MARR:

I have to say you seem very angry about it indeed.

WILLIE WALSH:

Well I was shocked and angry. You know it's fair to say I was angry when I found out that Derek was doing that. You know he was sitting opposite me and he did have his Blackberry out. I thought he was responding to an email or a text message. But when I found out that he was actually sending his version of events to the wider audience, you know that really did undermine my confidence in their desire to resolve this issue. So it is a really serious issue.

ANDREW MARR:

It sounds to me like it's going to be unlikely that you'll be able to resume these talks today.

WILLIE WALSH:

No, I would hope so. I'm expecting ACAS to try and facilitate talks. I think they've done a good job so far putting this together.

ANDREW MARR:

(over) Except for the doorman.

WILLIE WALSH:

Well I don't think you can blame ACAS for what happened there, to be honest. It's not their building. So you know it was clearly a surprise to everybody, disappointing, and it did bring the talks to an early end. I think we may have been able to resolve some of these issues. But the issue we would have been talking about was Derek's behaviour, but we never got round to doing that.

ANDREW MARR:

What about the substance of the dispute itself because there has been a suggestion that it's really only the question of how people involved in the last strike are going to be treated by their managers and the travel perks that are the remaining issues and you've been accused of being really frankly too abrasive and too aggressive on those two issues?

WILLIE WALSH:

No, I think it's a distraction for people to consider travel concessions, travel perks to be the issue at the heart of this. It isn't. What's at the heart of this is we've had 15 months of negotiation. We have resolved - I believe - all of the substantive issues between myself, Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson. But Tony and Derek have not been able to get BASSA, the branch at the centre of this dispute, to accept that. At the same time as Tony's on television saying you know we have a deal; this union is out there saying this deal is rubbish, you cannot accept this, and outlining line by line why cabin crew should reject it. So you know there are much more difficult issues at the centre of this dispute. Now I think we can work through it and I'm always optimistic about reaching agreement, but it is not about travel perks, it is not about the issues around the disciplinary.

ANDREW MARR:

Is it about the fact that there will now be two tiers of stewards and stewardesses on BA planes - those with as it were the old deal still there and people coming in with a less good deal, the sort of second tier people?

WILLIE WALSH:

I don't think that's an issue either because if you look at British Airways today, we have different conditions at Heathrow to the cabin crew that operate at Gatwick. And in fact we showed on Friday at our investor presentation that the costs that we have in our operation at Heathrow are almost twice the costs for the same people doing the same job. And they do an excellent job at Gatwick, I have to say. So you know that to me you know isn't a breaking point either. I think …

ANDREW MARR:

(over) You're losing …

WILLIE WALSH:

… we've got to …

ANDREW MARR:

Sorry. You're losing about half a million … half a billion pounds a year at the moment.

WILLIE WALSH:

Yeah.

ANDREW MARR:

You've had the ash cloud disruption and you've got probably more strikes coming. People making all sorts of holiday plans, probably not going for BA tickets at the moment. What's the most worrying aspect of all of this? Is BA itself going to be in serious trouble as a company?

WILLIE WALSH:

No, BA will survive and will be stronger because we're tackling the core issues. And I have to say I really am sorry and hugely disappointed for any of our customers who have been inconvenienced. We've got great contingency plans that will go into place at midnight tonight to ensure that the vast majority of our customers will be able to fly. We will not allow Unite, we will not allow the union to ground BA. And the reason that won't happen is the vast majority of excellent people at BA are pulling together to ensure that BA can continue to fly. But the figures highlight the problem. You know we've got a cost base that is out of line with our competitors and it must be tackled.

ANDREW MARR:

What about you and the accusation that you have simply been too macho, too aggressive, too high testosterone as a boss in all of this and that, therefore, part of the problem has been a personal one?

WILLIE WALSH:

No, there's no personalities behind this. I've demonstrated that I'm capable of reaching agreement. I've demonstrated that I'm prepared to compromise. Some of the issues that people felt I wouldn't move on, I've already moved on. So we have given the union a framework for cabin crew to get back their travel concessions, and that was something that I said I wouldn't do. So you know I'm quite capable of reaching agreement. I don't believe there are any issues around personalities here.

ANDREW MARR:

Okay.

WILLIE WALSH:

This is a business issue.

ANDREW MARR:

And despite the extraordinary scenes yesterday and despite the twittering, you think there's a possibility of getting a breakthrough today; that you can get back round a table with Derek Simpson and Tony Woodley and actually do something that calls this strike off?

WILLIE WALSH:

I believe there's always an opportunity to do that. I think we could have come close yesterday if it wasn't for Derek's actions and clearly then the mob storming the building. We may have been able to make significant progress. There were a number of issues that were I think successfully addressed yesterday. So there is always hope. But if the strike goes ahead at midnight tonight, we are ready and British Airways will be flying tomorrow. We will not be grounded by the actions of a tiny minority who are clearly out of touch with reality.

ANDREW MARR:

Willie Walsh - another very long day, I suspect, for you. Thank you very much indeed for joining us.

WILLIE WALSH:

Thank you.

INTERVIEW ENDS

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