On Sunday 2 May Andrew Marr interviewed Ieuan Wyn Jones, leader of Plaid Cymru. Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.  Ieuan Wyn Jones, leader of Plaid Cymru |
ANDREW MARR: Well if you think politics has become complicated in England, then in the other nations it's even more so. In Wales, Plaid Cymru, the Welsh Nationalists, are fighting Labour, but they're also in coalition with Labour in the Welsh Assembly. They hope for some post-election leverage at Westminster. Ieuan Wyn Jones is their leader and he joins me now. Welcome. Can I just start by asking in terms of Plaid's sort of core hopes for this election, you do want a hung parliament, don't you? IEUAN WYN JONES: Yes, that would be good for Wales because then we would be able to you know have discussions around what's important for us in Wales. You know Alistair Darling has told us that we can expect cuts deeper than that which were executed by Margaret Thatcher in the 80s and the 90s, so we need a fair funding formula for Wales. And I think also one of the forgotten people of this election are pensioners, and everybody's been talking about fairness but actually fairness for pensioners would be at the top of our political agenda. We also want to make sure of course that the Welsh economy has an opportunity to recover from recession, so we don't want to see those cuts happening this year because that would have the danger of putting us into a double dip recession. ANDREW MARR: But that makes it quite difficult, doesn't it, if David Cameron is the man that you're dealing with because he said that the cuts are going to have start earlier than Labour want and he's certainly going to be as tough as Labour. IEUAN WYN JONES: We certainly couldn't support that because you know we've taken £400 million out of the Welsh budget already this year. If that were to increase this year, then it would seriously put at risk the efforts that we've put in to protect the Welsh economy from recession. We've done a great deal in Wales. We've done far more than in parts of England and Scotland to do that. And what we want to do is to make sure that you know the Welsh economy has an opportunity to recover from that recession, and cutting this year would certainly put us at risk. ANDREW MARR: You've talked a couple of times now about economic recovery. Just explain to us this idea that you've got of a maximum wage in Wales and how that would relate to entrepreneurs and footballers and all the people that you might want to be living in Wales. IEUAN WYN JONES: Yeah, that isn't a policy for Wales only. That's a UK wide policy. And what we would want is … Well actually that's to deal with two specific issues. ANDREW MARR: But Plaid can hardly impose a maximum wage on the English. IEUAN WYN JONES: Well … ANDREW MARR: Even if you do well. IEUAN WYN JONES: Yeah, I understand that. But I mean this is a UK manifesto that we have … ANDREW MARR: Right. IEUAN WYN JONES: … and our deal for pensioners, for example, would apply equally across the UK. But basically it's to deal with two issues. The first issue is the grotesque way in which banks are still paying bonuses to some of their executives you know at a time when we have bailed them out. So it's to deal with things like that. So it's to deal specifically in the first instance with bank bonuses. It could also deal with some of the issues that have happened in recent years about paying the public sector, in particular the multiplier - which I think the Conservatives are even talking about - so that you would limit in the public sector the pay of top executives linked to the pay of the lowest earners. ANDREW MARR: Based on the private sector. So what would the maximum be? IEUAN WYN JONES: Well that would be decided by a High Pay Commission which we would want to set up. But can I make … ANDREW MARR: (over) Any sense of the area that you're looking at? IEUAN WYN JONES: Well, yes, the two areas we're looking at are banks, in particular, and councils. ANDREW MARR: (over) Sorry, the level rather I'm talking … IEUAN WYN JONES: Yeah, we haven't actually fixed a level because I think in fairness that shouldn't be decided by politicians. That should be decided by a High Pay Commission. But let me make it clear this would not apply to entrepreneurs because we want to encourage entrepreneurs to be setting up in businesses in Wales. We do recognise that the private sector in Wales needs to be encouraged, it's far too small, and under our plan we would then give indigenous companies the opportunities to prosper and grow. ANDREW MARR: Just a little bit about how the election is going at the moment in Wales. It's a four sided fight there, of course. IEUAN WYN JONES: Yuh. ANDREW MARR: Are you being squeezed a bit by the rise of the Liberal Democrats? IEUAN WYN JONES: Well clearly the debates have had an impact on us in Wales. But you did point out at the beginning of this piece that we're in four party politics in Wales, and I think in those areas where we are fighting hard, we are doing well. And I think what is beginning to happen is as people are seeing that the Labour Party now is becoming desperate in its capture of votes, the support for us is growing because they will see Plaid as the only defence now against these massive cuts. ANDREW MARR: So I mean a recent poll, I think the only poll for just Wales put you in fourth place, but you think that the Labour vote is coming down fast enough for you to climb? IEUAN WYN JONES: I think so, yes. And you know I've been out campaigning the last few days and people now really see the Labour Party as a spent force and I think that we'll see significant falls in support for Labour and a significant increase in our support. ANDREW MARR: Well we'll see. Ieuan Wyn Jones, thank you very much indeed for joining us this morning. IEUAN WYN JONES: Thank you. INTERVIEW ENDS
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