On Sunday 15 November Sophie Raworth interviewed Ed Miliband MP. Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used. SOPHIE RAWORTH: Now only three weeks to go to the Copenhagen Summit, and the high hopes for a far reaching global agreement to tackle climate change seem to be unravelling. There are doubts over whether President Obama will even turn up to the meeting; and although Gordon Brown is heavily committed to getting a deal, a poll yesterday showed the public are sceptical about the threat of global warming. Less than half believe it's caused by human activity. Well I'm joined now by the Climate Change Secretary, Ed Miliband. Good afternoon. Good morning, I mean. ED MILIBAND: Good morning. SOPHIE RAWORTH: Is a legally binding deal just gone now? I mean is there no hope of it at all? ED MILIBAND: It may not happen in Copenhagen. It's a bit like when you buy a house: exchange may happen at Copenhagen, a completion may happen some months afterwards. But what's most important, as far as I'm concerned, is to get a really ambitious set of commitments from all the world leaders because we're trying to do something the world has never done before, which is instead of emissions carrying on rising across the world, involving all countries - China, India, Europe, the United States - we're trying to get them to fall. And that's never been done before, so it's tough. It's a tough thing. SOPHIE RAWORTH: You liken this, you liken it to buying a house. ED MILIBAND: Yeah. SOPHIE RAWORTH: I mean this is a little bit more serious than buying a house, isn't it? I mean this is about saving the world. ED MILIBAND: It is about saving the world. But what I'm saying to you is that if we can get a very clear set of commitments from the world's leaders in Copenhagen on how they're going to cut their emissions - not just Europe, not just the United States but India and China and other countries - then that will be a very major step forward. So despite it being tough, I'm actually quite optimistic because I think we've come a long way in a year. When I got this job a year ago, many countries were saying this isn't really our primary concern. Now we have China saying we want to be part of this; India saying it's going to take action; Brazil yesterday saying it will take on action in relation to climate change. So it's a difficult thing that we're trying to pull off here, but I think … SOPHIE RAWORTH: (over) Yes, but I mean the negotiations have been going on for years, I mean 17 years … ED MILIBAND: Sure, sure. SOPHIE RAWORTH: … since Rio, and we're at a point now where it's still not happening. Copenhagen was supposed to be the point where this deal was made - a legally binding one, hopefully - and now it's just been let to sort of disappear, to go away. ED MILIBAND: Well it's not being let to disappear at all. I don't, I don't agree about that. We want to get as far as we can at Copenhagen, and what I'm saying to you is that the substantive commitments that leaders make is what matters. If we don't … SOPHIE RAWORTH: (over) But you wanted a legally binding deal now, didn't you? I mean the end of Bali, the road map at the end of Bali - that was all about a legally binding deal. ED MILIBAND: (over) Sure, sure, but if we have to lock the lawyers in room for a few months afterwards to turn that into a legal form, then that's okay. I think that by raising the stakes at Copen… SOPHIE RAWORTH: (over) But it's going to be more than locking lawyers into a room, isn't it? I mean this is all about negotiation at all kinds of level; political negotiations that need to go on over the next year or so. ED MILIBAND: (over) Well no, well no, Sophie, because what I'm saying to you is that we need to complete those negotiations by Copenhagen. We need a set of very clear, politically binding commitments from leaders, from the governments of the world about what they're going to do to tackle this problem. And why do we need to do it? Because it's important to come back to this. We need to do it for our environment because we know that the situation is urgent. We need to do it for our economy as well. Because unless the world sends a very clear signal, the world as a whole, that we are going to move onto this low carbon path, clean energy - we're going to move towards clean energy - then business won't have the confidence to invest, and that would be bad for Britain in terms of the jobs that we could get in those new industries. So it's right environmentally, it's right economically, and I still think it can be done. SOPHIE RAWORTH: We know a lot of world leaders are going - Gordon Brown of course being one of them. President Obama is less clear. Should he commit to going? ED MILIBAND: I hope, I hope he does go. He said … SOPHIE RAWORTH: Do you think he should commit to going? ED MILIBAND: Well I hope he does. His diary's a matter for him, but I hope he does go because I think it's important that this is done in the end by the leaders. Because to get … SOPHIE RAWORTH: (over) But does he need to be there? Do you think he needs to be there in or…? ED MILIBAND: (over) Well I'm saying to you that I think as many leaders as possible, including President Obama, do need to be there, yes, because I think that will make the difference in the end to the kind of deal we want. And what's Britain's role in this? Britain's role is to push for the most ambitious deal. Not just any old deal, but a deal consistent with the science, and the science says that real action is urgent. And the most important thing, just to say this, that can come out of Copenhagen is that we show that we can cut global emissions rather than having them carrying on rising. SOPHIE RAWORTH: But I'm just wondering if the leader of the second biggest polluter of CO2 in the world is not at Copenhagen, what message that sends out to the rest of the world? So I'm just asking you whether he should be there. ED MILIBAND: (over) Well I have said … SOPHIE RAWORTH: (over) And if he's not there, what message does that send? ED MILIBAND: Well I think I have said to you very clearly that I think it's … SOPHIE RAWORTH: (over) You hope he's there, yeah. ED MILIBAND: … that President Obama and other world leaders do go because I think that will get us the kind of agreement, or is more likely to get us the kind of agreement we need. SOPHIE RAWORTH: We have set ourselves very tough targets on cutting CO2 by 2050. I mean there was a report last week which said that that was actually just an act of faith and actually we can't do it. ED MILIBAND: Well I don't agree with that. We are the only country in the world not only to have targets to reduce our emissions by a third by 2020 and 80% by 2050, but a route map. What I published in the summer was a route map and that involves some difficult decisions like on renewable energy, wind turbines - lots of people don't like them, nuclear energy, which I was talking about this week, clean coal technology. So actually we don't just have a set of targets. We have a route map to get to those targets and it's legally binding. So I think that we have a very clear set of plans in place to meet our objectives, but they are tough. We're a transition economy. We've been talking this week about the … SOPHIE RAWORTH: (over) I mean they're more than tough. This report, which is the Institute of Mechanical Engineers, I mean they basically say that we need to build 30 nuclear power stations by 2015 if we're on course to meet those targets. You're proposing 10 by 2025 by private companies. I mean we seem to be a long way off this. ED MILIBAND: Well I don't agree with the Institute of Mechanical Engineers' report. We said that we'll get to about 30%, 35% renewable energy, renewable electricity by 2025. We've also said that we'll get to about 20% for nuclear by 2025. That is a big step all on the way of the kind of low carbon transition we need, the transition to clean energy; about 50% of our energy coming from, of our electricity coming from low carbon sources. So I think we have a plan in place and we're going to meet it. SOPHIE RAWORTH: We've got the state opening of Parliament coming up this Wednesday. It does feel like it is all now winding down, winding towards the General Election. The opinion poll this morning, one of them, says that the gap is widening again. Do you feel that your fate is sealed? ED MILIBAND: No, I don't at all. What's our task in this? Our task is to do a Queen's Speech that is the right thing for the country, and that's what we're going to do. We're going to have a Queen's Speech - obviously we have to wait for the details on Thursday - which is about the future of our economy and how we get a financial services industry that works for people and not bankers; that addresses the new issues people face in the public services like care for the elderly, which is very important; and how in my area of energy, we have a fairer energy market for consumers because we know the pressures on prices are going to be upwards in the coming years and we need to take action on behalf of consumers. And the difference between ourselves and our opponents, the Conservatives, is they'll say it's not government's role to do this; government just needs to step out of the way and things will be fine. We say actually government has a role to stand beside people and help them on these kind of issues. SOPHIE RAWORTH: The pressure's actually going to be on time, whether actually you can get any of it through though, isn't it? ED MILIBAND: Well we've consulted on an Energy Bill. We have to wait till Wednesday to see whether it's in there. There are very important measures in that for our new industries and for consumers. We want to get them onto the statute book because it is about doing the right things for the country, but we'll also see some of the differences between ourselves and our opponents emerge. SOPHIE RAWORTH: Ed Miliband, thank you very much. ED MILIBAND: Thank you. INTERVIEW ENDS
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