To question Question Time

On Sunday 25 October Andrew Marr interviewed BBC Deputy Director General Mark Byford.

Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

ANDREW MARR:

Now last Thursday, the normally sedate Television Centre complex here in West London came under siege. Having announced in advance that the BNP Leader Nick Griffin would be appearing, and after Peter Hain denounced the broadcast as "a disgrace", protestors made their opposition very clear and tried to blockade the studios. They even managed to break through the main gates. But the recording did go ahead and the show was broadcast later that night.

CLIP: QUESTION TIME

ANDREW MARR:

Nick Griffin described the set up afterwards as "a lynch mob", and now the former Archbishop of Canterbury, George Carey, has rounded on the BBC, calling the programme "a serious mistake". I spoke to the Deputy Director General Mark Byford earlier, and I asked him if he regretted the bear pit atmosphere surrounding the broadcast.

MARK BYFORD:

Well the framework for 'Question Time' on Thursday night was the same framework as every week. It was an audience that were from the area, which was West London. It had a range of opinion, and they were able to scrutinise all those panelists - including Mr Griffin. And actually I thought in the hour a lot of very, very interesting and revealing information came out. I wouldn't describe it as a bear pit.

ANDREW MARR:

It's very rare for 'Question Time' to be so dominated by one topic though, isn't it?

MARK BYFORD:

It's rare, but not unique. I remember seeing a 'Question Time' in this series from Grimsby and from Salisbury that was dominated by MPs' expenses. The important thing, Andrew, is the public, the audience set the agenda of that programme, and the vast, vast majority of the questions were about race and immigration and that's why David allowed those questions to be asked.

ANDREW MARR:

Well you say it was set in West London, which obviously it was. But that's been another criticism; that had it been in another part of the country, had it been somewhere like Bradford or parts of the North where the BNP do have a bit of support, the atmosphere in the studio would have been very different.

MARK BYFORD:

Well everybody knows that 'Question Time' goes across the whole of the United Kingdom. This edition happened to be in London. Mr Griffin knew it was going to be in London; the other panelists knew it was going to be in London; and, therefore, the audience came from that area. It goes around the country. This one happened to be there. And it was in Television Centre for security reasons.

ANDREW MARR:

Do you regret if not the broadcast itself, the furore surrounding it - huge coverage in the press and on the evening news that night, people breaking into Television Centre; that it actually just put too much focus on this man?

MARK BYFORD:

Well it wasn't just the BBC that was recognising this was a news story. Every newspaper has been leading on this story during the week as well. What was important for the BBC was to fulfil its charter obligations on due impartiality. And once the BNP got those two European seats, they had passed the threshold, with their 6% share of the vote as well, for us to invite them onto 'Question Time'. For an edition, Andrew. For an edition. Not week in, week out.

ANDREW MARR:

It's not going to happen again, do you think?

MARK BYFORD:

We'll consider it in the same framework that we considered this one as well, and constantly monitor it. But I don't regret it. In fact, I think the BBC has been shown to take due impartiality incredibly seriously. It's the central value. And what we said was they've passed the threshold. Who is the BBC to say …? They're a legally constituted party, they fight elections, they've got two MEPs. If they've passed the threshold, they should be on the programme and properly scrutinised. He was one of five panelists. The audience asked the questions, and the audience clearly showed they wanted to engage in political debate.

ANDREW MARR:

So you would do this broadcast in this way again?

MARK BYFORD:

I would definitely use the same framework for inviting Mr Griffin onto the programme, which is looking carefully over time at electoral support; and if they've passed that threshold, he'll be invited. But it's a minority party with a small share, so it's not week in, week out, or even month in, month out. But if they're an elected party that can fight elections and they get that support, then the BBC thinks they should be invited.

ANDREW MARR:

Because watching it, I did think - one person after another after another after another, go after go after go after go - isn't there a danger in taking somebody like that and making them look like the underdog picked upon by the liberal elite or whoever?

MARK BYFORD:

That's for you or the viewers and the audience to make those judgements, not for the BBC.

ANDREW MARR:

Because he's called it "a lynch mob", I think, and said that he's going to complain about it.

MARK BYFORD:

Well I haven't yet received his complaint, and I don't know if I will. But I do not think it was a lynch mob at all. It was an audience that felt strongly about the questions they wanted to ask, that were able to put under public scrutiny to the panelists those issues; and I think it was democracy in action, a democracy working.

ANDREW MARR:

And casting ahead, are we going to see him, do you think, appearing on … I mean he has appeared on this programme, but do you think we'll see him appearing on the 'Today' programme, 'Any Questions?', other BNP people coming ahead now being treated just like any other politician?

MARK BYFORD:

Mr Griffin should be on BBC outlets on news value. He's not banned from the airwaves if there's an important news story. Like on Friday, the very follow up to the 'Question Time' debate, he'll be on. He'll be on 'Today', 'Newsnight', maybe on your programme. But he'll be on those political discussion programmes that have a framework of who should be on, when the main parties are on week in, week out, minority parties are on less so but are on. If they meet the threshold, Mr Griffin or a member of the BNP will be invited onto them. But it will be … it will not be the same as the main parties. It will be rarer, but they are not banned from the BBC.

ANDREW MARR:

And what is your understanding of the rules and decisions about party political broadcasts?

MARK BYFORD:

Party political broadcasts will be considered by the Broadcast Liaison Group. There's criteria for that as well.

ANDREW MARR:

Because it's quite complicated, isn't it?

MARK BYFORD:

It is complicated, but it's about the number of seats that you're going to fight in an election and your level of support. And the BNP will be within that framework, along with other minority parties as well.

ANDREW MARR:

So they will probably get a PPB, will they?

MARK BYFORD:

Yes, but they will also pay for the production of it. I've seen some things in the papers today that you know what are licence fee payers paying for party election broadcasts. They're done by the party. And, again, it's part of the democratic framework. If they're going to be allowed to stand in elections - which they are - and those elections are about to take place, party election broadcasts are part of the framework of an election campaign and the BNP, along with other minority parties, will take part.

ANDREW MARR:

There's been a lot of debate about party leaders debating with each other. Alex Salmond of the SNP wants in, many of the smaller parties - UKIP, I'm quite sure, will want to be part of any sort of system of leader debates in the run-up to the election. Does the BNP also feature in that, I wonder?

MARK BYFORD:

Well those leader debates I think are focused on who is going to be Prime Minister, and they are around the main political parties and the leaders there. One thing I would say about the leader debates is some people have said 'Question Time', 8 million people, it was clearly audience chasing. This was never about audience chasing at all. It was in the same slot, after the news at 10.30, and it got a very, very significant audience. I think it shows the public are very keen to scrutinise and debate with the leaders in that panel form and I think the leaders can see that if they're thinking about engaging with the public interest about politics, there is a real appetite for that, and that may just mean that it influences and shapes the leadership debates as well.

ANDREW MARR:

And in your waters, do you think there's going to be leader debates this time?

MARK BYFORD:

I don't know. Personally, I hope that there are …

ANDREW MARR:

Yeah.

MARK BYFORD:

… and we are trying to engage with the politicians such that there will be, but at the end of the day we rely on them, them saying yes.

ANDREW MARR:

Mark Byford, thank you very much.

MARK BYFORD:

Thank you.

INTERVIEW ENDS

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