On Sunday 25 October Andrew Marr interviewed Foreign Secretary David Miliband. Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used. ANDREW MARR: Now as Foreign Secretary, David Miliband's got a lot on his plate. Afghanistan, above all. But it's a huge week ahead for Europe. Assuming the Lisbon Treaty does go through, the discussion starts right away on who's going to be the first President of the new look EU. Tony Blair? Or perhaps even the man who tomorrow makes a big speech on our European future, Mr Miliband himself, who joins us now from Newcastle? Good morning, Foreign Secretary. DAVID MILIBAND: Good morning, Andrew. Nice to be with you. ANDREW MARR: Thank you. Would you, if asked, take the job of European Foreign Minister, or indeed European President? DAVID MILIBAND: No, I'm not a candidate for that. I'm not available. I've got a job that I'm absolutely committed to and I'm proud to do. There is a bigger game going on here than just to do with the High Representative, the foreign policy role, and that is to do with the Presidency of the European Council … ANDREW MARR: Absolutely. DAVID MILIBAND: … the person who will chair the meetings of the 27 heads of government, the person who will make Europe's case not just within Europe's borders but abroad. I think it's very important for Europe that it has a strong figure in that role, it has someone who is able persuasively to advocate the cause that is decided by the 27 member states of the European Union. I think it would be very good for Britain, as well as very good for Europe, if Tony Blair became a candidate and if he was chosen. And I think this is an important moment for Europe because it's got a new Commission, hopefully with the passage of the Lisbon Treaty a new system of running its affairs, a more efficient system. And it needs to take that opportunity, otherwise we'll find the world run by America and China without any reference to us. ANDREW MARR: Now you're close to Tony Blair. You've known him for a very long time. Is it your understanding that he would like the job? DAVID MILIBAND: Well I think it all comes down to what the heads of government want the job to be. It's about whether or not Europe wants a strong leader in that position. And I think that hasn't yet been resolved in the minds of a number of Europe's leaders. My own view very clearly is that we need someone who can do more than simply run through the agenda. If you like, we need someone who when he or she lands in Beijing or Washington or Moscow, the traffic does need to stop, the talks do need to begin at a very, very high level. And I think that Europe has suffered from the lack of that clarity. I think this person will be obviously answerable to the 27 governments of the European Union. I think, as I say, it would be very, very good for Britain if it was a former British Prime Minister. ANDREW MARR: Right … DAVID MILIBAND: I have to say … ANDREW MARR: … it would also be highly provocative for a lot of British people and certainly for the Conservatives to find that Tony Blair was there in that position if they won an election. And they are pointing out, for instance, that he would probably in those circumstances also be facing an Iraq War Inquiry at home. Don't you think this is pushing it a bit, given the stage of the electoral cycle? DAVID MILIBAND: I'm very puzzled by that analysis. I mean in every other country of Europe, they would be delighted if one of their former prime ministers was being nominated by governments around Europe, his case was being pushed by governments around Europe for a senior European position. The Europeans that I talk to, the other Europeans I talk to view with bemusement this argument from the Conservatives that somehow it's bad for Britain to have a former British Prime Minister in a leading role in Europe. Some of them can't quite believe it really. It must be good for us to have someone who is a former British Prime Minister who knows Britain well, who, as we know, is a powerful advocate for policies that are agreed in the appropriate democratic processes in the European Union - that seems like a very good thing, not a bad thing. ANDREW MARR: (over) And yet … Sure. And yet you know that David Cameron and the Conservatives have a very, very different view of what should happen in Europe from Tony Blair's view, and that is therefore going to re-open a big domestic argument of some kind. DAVID MILIBAND: Well but their view is different from all 27 … from all 26 other European governments. Every European government and every European opposition, bar the Conservatives, wants to live with the Lisbon Treaty, not fight it. Every government and every opposition, bar the Conservatives, wants to put behind us this institutional squabbling and get on with the big issues - jobs, energy, climate. Foreign policy too, which I'm sure we'll come to. ANDREW MARR: Indeed. DAVID MILIBAND: And the Conservatives are isolated … ANDREW MARR: Okay. DAVID MILIBAND: … and their isolation is symbolised in the European Parliament by their withdrawal from the mainstream grouping of Conservatives. And that isolationism is something that Britain cannot risk. ANDREW MARR: Well we'll get chances to talk to them about that. But just finally on this particular matter, is it your understanding that this is going to be something that'll be settled quite quickly; that if the Czech President signs, the thing goes through, that it's not going to run on for months and months? DAVID MILIBAND: Well it'll be done relatively swiftly after the Czech President signs the Lisbon Treaty. ANDREW MARR: Yuh, okay. Let's turn to the other huge issue of course on your plate, which remains the Afghan War at the moment. A lot of people ask this question, a simple question: what do you say to the relatives of British soldiers maimed or killed protecting an electoral process, which we now agree, everybody now agrees was appallingly corrupt and which is going to have to be re-run? DAVID MILIBAND: I would say, first of all, that words are not going to provide sufficient comfort for the daily anguish of the families of people who have fallen in Afghanistan - wives and husbands, sons and daughters who've been lost. Secondly, I would say that the government has committed our troops to Afghanistan not for Afghan democracy but for our security. Our analysis is very simple: that the badlands of the Afghan Pakistan border are the incubator of choice for al-Qaeda and for international terrorism, and it's for that reason that our forces and those of 41 other countries are there. Now an Afghan government worthy of its name is essential to progress in Afghanistan and it's essential to the development of security forces and a political system that allows us eventually to get our troops out. And so I think it's right, therefore, that because no candidate got 50% of the vote in the Afghan elections … ANDREW MARR: Sure. DAVID MILIBAND: … there should be a second round. It's not exactly a re-run actually. To be fair, a second place candidate got a large number of votes and that's why there is a second round of the ballot. ANDREW MARR: Sure. But we've had you know a senior British general saying that we could be there for 30 to 40 years, and we've … DAVID MILIBAND: Well no, actually he didn't say that, Andrew. I'm sorry. What a senior British general said was that our development mission, because Afghanistan is the fifth poorest country in the world, could be there for 30 or 40 years. That's a very different point from our military forces being there for 30 or 40 years. ANDREW MARR: Well it looked, when he said it, as if he was talking about people with guns. DAVID MILIBAND: Well no, I've spoken to him and he's corrected it actually. ANDREW MARR: Alright, okay. But what about the argument that in the end, we're going to have to let the Taliban back in some form; that there is going to be some form of Taliban involvement in the government, we're going to have to speak to them; and there's going to have to be some agreement that if they allow al-Qaeda in in any way at all, there will be further military reprisals? If that's going to be the end game, isn't it time to get on with it and not carry on the electoral process involving President Karzai? DAVID MILIBAND: Well I've advocated this very clearly; that for those Taliban who are will… those insurgents who are willing to live within the constitution of Afghanistan, severing their links with al-Qaeda, of course they should be inside the political system. But that is not an alternative to an Afghan government worthy of its name. It's a vital task of an Afghan government worthy of its name. And so when people say to me should the Afghan government be engaged in an active process of reintegration of the foot soldiers of the insurgency, I say yes. When people say to me should the Afghan government be reaching out to mid and high level commanders of the insurgency, I say yes with a very simple message: live within the constitution, come home to your villages and your valleys in the South and East of Afghanistan, and there is a place for you in your community and in the political system. But be part of a global jihad and you will face the wrath not just of Afghans, but of the international community too. ANDREW MARR: A big domestic story here, which falls into your plate as well. The Dumfries and Galloway Police reopening the Lockerbie Inquiry, looking again at forensic evidence and paper evidence and so on. Have you spoken at all to the Libyans about this? DAVID MILIBAND: No, not … About this reopening? No, not at all. This is rightly a matter for the Scottish authorities. ANDREW MARR: (over) Right. DAVID MILIBAND: We've always said that this was a terrible crime where justice must be done and every avenue pursued. The investigation was never formally closed, and that's why it's wholly appropriate that if there are grounds for taking new steps, that they should be taken. ANDREW MARR: The relatives are calling for a full public inquiry, and they're quoting your colleague Jack Straw as telling them at a previous meeting "there should have been a full-scale inquiry after Lockerbie, but it didn't happen." Isn't this now the time to let it happen? DAVID MILIBAND: Well I think that we've always said, rightly in my view, that this was something that happened over Scottish soil, it was investigated by the Scottish authorities. It's right that they pursue the investigation on a criminal basis. And if there's any suggestion of an inquiry, that should be a matter for the Scots because that's the way our system works. But you can see from today's announcement that the commitment in Scotland remains real in respect of justice in this case, and that must be right. ANDREW MARR: And, finally, another domestic one, if I may. The postal dispute. Senior member of the government, do you regard this as close to suicidal or suicidal - these two sides being unable so far to come to an agreement? They're meeting again tomorrow, of course. DAVID MILIBAND: Well it's certainly very, very dangerous for the Post Office and very, very bad for the country to have these strikes and for them to continue. It must be good that the TUC have brought the two sides together, and it must be right that all of us urge the two sides to come to a conclusion as soon as possible. As I understand it, there was nearly an agreement last Tuesday or even there was an agreement between the leaders of the union and the management. They must close the deal as soon as possible. ANDREW MARR: Alright, Foreign Secretary, thank you very much indeed for joining us this morning. DAVID MILIBAND: Thank you. INTERVIEW ENDS
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