On Sunday 12 July Andrew Marr interviewed Ed Miliband MP, Energy and Climate Change Secretary
Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.
The Energy Secretary Ed Miliband explains his plans for a low-carbon future.
ANDREW MARR:
Ed Miliband MP
Now to climate change and those warnings in today's papers that we're going to be paying more for our energy and having to change our lifestyles, and pretty fast.
To achieve the ambitious targets that Britain's announced, there's going to have to be a radical programme that will have an impact on every household and cost each of us more than £200 according to a report in one Sunday newspaper.
Well Ed Miliband, the Energy Secretary, is with me. Good morning …
ED MILIBAND:
Good morning, Andrew.
ANDREW MARR:
… and welcome to you. Can I talk about that report first. It's in the Sunday Mirror, in fact, and it says every family is going to have an extra £230 on their energy bills as a result of these climate change measures.
ED MILIBAND:
Well, look, I don't recognise those figures. I'll set out the full details on Wednesday in the House of Commons, but I don't think those figures are accurate.
ANDREW MARR:
But we are going to have to pay more aren't we?
ED MILIBAND:
Well let me put it this way. I'll come to that. I think there are upward pressures on energy prices whatever route we go down. We can go down the high-carbon routes, sort of stick with where we are, and for us that means the North Sea oil and gas is declining, we'll import more and more, and we'll be very exposed to swings in oil prices and also importing from some pretty dangerous places.
Or - and I think this is the right way to go - we can plan for the low-carbon future, and that does mean some costs to transition. Now my job is to counter those effects as much as I possibly can - helping people with energy efficiency and having tough regulation, for example.
ANDREW MARR:
How frightened should we be? I mean Prince Charles said this week 96 months left to save the planet and it's a nightmare, a horror ahead of us if we don't act very fast and very radically. Is that too extreme?
ED MILIBAND:
I don't think it is too extreme. I think there are massive dangers for us. And what are those dangers? We set these out a couple of weeks ago in terms of the impacts on Britain, the climate impact projections showing what would happen here. Much hotter summers. We all remember what happened in the heat wave of 2003 in Britain. People died across Europe.
I remember in my own constituency the terrible flooding in 2007. We'll have a lot more of those extremes of weather. And that's got big human costs for people in Britain. It's also got massive financial costs as well - far outweighing any costs of making the transition and planning for it.
ANDREW MARR:
But if that's so, shouldn't we be doing more than leading the world in setting targets?
ED MILIBAND:
Absolutely.
ANDREW MARR:
Shouldn't we be building … I mean you say that we need nuclear power stations, for instance at some …
ED MILIBAND:
Yeah, absolutely.
ANDREW MARR:
We should be building them by now, shouldn't we?
ED MILIBAND:
Well here's the thing. What we're trying to set out on Wednesday, because people know all about the targets, is a route map; is a sense of how do we go from here to 2020 and beyond, and what changes does it mean?
Changes in our energy, so a lot more renewable energy and nuclear power and cleaner fossil fuels, carbon capture and storage, which is a new technology to make coal clean. Big changes in homes, so much greater energy efficiency. Helping people - and I think it is the job of government to help people to adapt. And changes in transport as well. So it does mean big changes in terms of people's lives. Government I think has a central role in making those changes possible.
ANDREW MARR:
Okay. Is this for real because you know huge pressure on government spending at the moment? Offshore wind farms are in terrible financial trouble and are coming to you saying, "Bail us out. It's going to cost billions, but we need that money if they're going to go ahead." The nuclear industry is saying at least we need a completely even playing field to go ahead. I just wonder whether this is a classic example of I think it's called NIMOFF - not in my time of office politics: push it off to the future?
ED MILIBAND:
I'm hoping our time in office might be quite long. Look, I think that this is for real. And, as I say, what's important about what we're doing next week is a route map. It is showing the changes that we need to make. We've actually now overtaken Denmark as the largest country for offshore wind in the world, so …
ANDREW MARR:
(over) By the way, do you accept that there is a problem for the offshore wind farm industry and they do need public help?
ED MILIBAND:
There was a problem. Actually some decisions we took in the Budget - and I think this has been recognised in the wind industry - has made a difference. My sense about nuclear … My predecessor, John Hutton, made a brave decision I think to say we need to go down the nuclear road. It's not popular with everyone, but in my view climate change changes your view about nuclear.
That's on track. It's going to be a few years yet before the new nuclear stations are built, but that's on track as well. And then the final element of the jigsaw for me is carbon capture and storage. It sounds complicated. It's about making coal clean basically …
ANDREW MARR:
Yuh.
ED MILIBAND:
… and I think that's right for Britain as well.
ANDREW MARR:
So sticking with, sticking with nuclear, when you say it's "on track", when are we actually going to see nuclear power stations going up?
ED MILIBAND:
End of 2017, 2018 because they take a long time to plan and build and you've got to get safety right and you've got to make sure that the costs of clean up and waste …
ANDREW MARR:
(over) Still nine years away?
ED MILIBAND:
It is still a long way away, but that's about planning. Look, these are big changes that are going to take place over time. What I've got to do now is plan for those changes and make them happen.
ANDREW MARR:
The one thing that makes some people suspicious is that when politicians talk about this, it's about giving people money for insulation; it's about long-term changes, not quite now …
ED MILIBAND:
Sure.
ANDREW MARR:
… and any suggestion that we're going to have to change our lifestyle in a way that we might find difficult, you shy away from.
ED MILIBAND:
Well it's not really about not changing now. I'm opening one of the largest wind farms in Britain tomorrow. I've said … Onshore wind farm. I've said, for example, that I think we need to change people's perceptions about onshore wind farms. Lots of people don't like them. We'll know people …
ANDREW MARR:
(over) So we'll have those, but will we have to drive less, fly less …
ED MILIBAND:
I think in terms of …
ANDREW MARR:
… eat less food from around the other side of the world?
ED MILIBAND:
Well in terms of driving, I think we need to help people make the transition in terms of electric cars, for example, and we've announced incentives for electric cars and for charging points that will be around the country. I think in terms of flying, that's one of the most difficult issues, but I think the price of flying will go up over time.
You've got people complaining about the increase in air passenger duty that's coming on. I think it's important though, Andrew, to also say there are benefits of this transition. More energy security, which I mentioned earlier. We can also lead in the green jobs of the future - making the wind turbines, making the parts for the nuclear power stations.
ANDREW MARR:
A very, a very simple question. When it comes to the price of energy, when it comes to price of basic living necessities - it may not be £230 a year, as the Sunday Mirror says, but are we or are we not going to have to pay more?
ED MILIBAND:
There are upward pressures on prices, yes …
ANDREW MARR:
Yes, the answer's yes.
ED MILIBAND:
… and my job, as I say, is to counter them: stronger regulation, giving people a chance in terms of energy efficiency and giving them the right help to do that. And also helping the most vulnerable and that's what I'll be talking about next week.
ANDREW MARR:
And the level of international action. Can you help me with the G8 statement which said that there was going to be an 80% cut in carbon emissions by 2050 and omitted to say what the starting point was. Is the starting point now, or is it 1990, or is it somewhere else?
ED MILIBAND:
Well we think it's 1990. There's an ongoing international discussion. Let me just say, there is something … I know people think international conferences are boring and don't achieve much generally. There is something very significant about the meeting that took place earlier this week. It's the first time the politicians from rich and poor countries have said two degrees - which is where the scientists say we must avoid temperature increases going above two degrees - two degrees is our aim.
We must stop climate change caused by temperature increases of more than two degrees. Now that is a very significant statement because it means over the next six months in the run up to the big Copenhagen Summit, which takes place in December, we will be arguing as Britain now countries have said two degrees is our aim, they've got to put offers on the table to reduce their carbon dioxide emissions which can achieve that now. Real action now.
ANDREW MARR:
Let me ask you as a cabinet minister and not as the man in charge of climate charge policy about Afghanistan because everybody has been watching …
ED MILIBAND:
Sure.
ANDREW MARR:
… those images, reading the papers. And there is a sense that public opinion is on a knife edge now about this; that you know the general consensus is beginning to fall away.
ED MILIBAND:
Look, I would say, first of all, all of our thoughts are with the families of the troops that have died, particularly in recent days. I think they're doing a heroic job. Why are we in Afghanistan?
I think there is a very clear mission. I think it's important … (Marr tries to interject) Let me just say what the mission is and then come back. It is a very clear mission. If the Taliban get control of Afghanistan, it will become a breeding ground for al-Qaeda - we saw that in the past - and it will threaten us right here in Britain. So it is …
ANDREW MARR:
(over) So how do you get out? How do we get out? How do we, as Trevor McDonald was suggesting, how do we declare that we've won and that the Taliban will never come back?
ED MILIBAND:
Well, look, I can't give you a date, but what I can say is that we've got to stabilise the country. We've got 65,000 trained Afghan troops that we didn't have when we went into Afghanistan. That is improving the security situation there. So it is important to say that we are making progress.
Despite the terrible loss of lives there's been for British servicemen, we are making progress in Afghanistan and we do have to see the mission through in my view. And we're being joined …
ANDREW MARR:
(over) And if the Army's demands come round the cabinet table, say we need more helicopters, whatever, you would put your hand up to that?
ED MILIBAND:
Of course, of course that's right. Of course we have to listen to those demands. Absolutely.
ANDREW MARR:
Alright, alright. Ed Miliband, thank you very much indeed for joining us.
INTERVIEW ENDS
Please note "The Andrew Marr Show" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.
NB: This transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script.
Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy
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