People lose faith in the political system

On Sunday 10 May Andrew Marr interviewed

Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

ANDREW MARR:

Liam Fox MP

Now, good news for the Tories this morning in the polls. But let's not get carried the away - the main revelations about Conservative misbehaviour over expenses are expected to appear tomorrow.

Reflecting on all of that is the Tory defence spokesman Liam Fox. Welcome .

First of all, big, big leads for the Conservative Party - nineteen points in one poll.

Those kind of leads. Is this the tipping point moment as far as you're concerned?

LIAM FOX:

As a former Party Chairman I used to spend all my time saying we didn't put too much faith in opinion polls ..

ANDREW MARR:

Yeah.

LIAM FOX:

...when we were behind. And it's wise to be cautious when you're ahead too. Clearly the government are in trouble.

They're in trouble basically because of the economy, because of the rapid rise in unemployment, because of the fears people have for their economic future and the fears that the government have mortgaged the future and put huge amounts of debt onto the next generation.

That's really why I think that the polls are moving against Labour.

ANDREW MARR:

And yet all parties are in terrible trouble with these expenses revelations. We understand the Telegraph are going to turn to your party next. Quaking in your boots?

LIAM FOX:

No I think that we, we all know what the, the system has been and how it's operated and I think that it's very clear now how the public are looking at the system.

I think, I think that the trouble is that politicians have tended to say well we were only acting within the rules. But the public think the rules themselves are wrong and they think the rules go way beyond the legitimate needs of people who have to be in London to represent their constituents in parliament.

And I think increasingly the view of the public is that we need independent audit. These things need to be set independently and monitored independently.

ANDREW MARR:

Because for most people's point of view many MPs have been behaving outrageously. I mean one of your predecessors as defence spokesman was claiming the cost of poppy wreaths to the taxpayer. That's outrageous isn't it?

LIAM FOX:

I think individuals have to answer for themselves. You know I don't want to get into ..

ANDREW MARR:

You wouldn't do that would you?

LIAM FOX:

...individuals. I haven't done it but it's up to individuals to make a defence of themselves. And I think that there's a wider worry here ..

ANDREW MARR:

Can I just ask about one general question however which is this business of flipping homes - which is the main home, which is the - people are using it to get out of paying tax and they're using it to make a lot of money when they sell their homes and to get the taxpayer to improve homes. In principle is flipping homes wrong?

LIAM FOX:

Yes the, the idea was always that ministers were deemed to have their primary residence in London when they were members of the government. When I was a junior minister in John Major's government that was the case.

And I'm not sure when Labour changed the rules to allow people to make the choice because it seems to me that you have to have a hard and fast rule about what is your primary home when you're an MP or when you're a minister, perhaps being slightly different. And I think there's a danger in all of this. And I think it's first of all that people lose faith in the political system as a whole which I think is a tragedy and I think it would be an over reaction.

Secondly that good people don't want to go into politics. That is a big risk here. Or perhaps even worse that only rich people could afford to go into politics which would be setting our system back two hundred years.

ANDREW MARR:

What's going to happen to Conservative front benchers who are found to have done some of the kind of things that we now know Labour front benchers have been doing?

LIAM FOX:

Well we have to wait and see what comes out. I'm not more privy to the information than you are. Probably you're more privy than I am. But I think that they will have to make ..

ANDREW MARR:

Was it a risk by the way for the Telegraph to do this? I mean they've published a lot of stuff haven't they?

LIAM FOX:

Well there's another issue behind all of this which is the security element because a lot of personal details appear to have published, addresses, possibly bank statements have been leaked out.

And there's a worry I think in the Commons that perhaps the authorities are not able to guarantee the security of MPs in the way that they should.

ANDREW MARR:

Let me ask about one major policy issue which is Pakistan. What's going on in the north of Pakistan is confusing but clearly enormously dangerous to the whole security of the West.

LIAM FOX:

It's, it's very worrying because we have to look at Afghanistan and Pakistan as a single entity which I think increasingly the American administration is doing. With the Taliban only some sixty miles from Islamabad there's a risk to the political stability inside Pakistan.

And if we think we had problems dealing with an unstable Afghanistan, a broken thirteenth century country, try a hundred and eighty million people with a nuclear weapon. That is a much, much greater risk to global security. And while we're all focusing on the economic problems that we face there's a very big bad world out there which we must not take our eyes off.

ANDREW MARR:

Don't lose sight of that. All right, Doctor Fox, thank you very much indeed for joining us.

INTERVIEW ENDS

Please note "The Andrew Marr Show" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

NB: This transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script.

Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy

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