'Talk to the Taleban'

On Sunday 08 March Andrew Marr interviewed Imran Khan, Chairman Pakistan PTI Party.

Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

Imran Khan sends message to President Obama.

ANDREW MARR:

Imran Khan, Chairman Pakistan PTI Party

Now after this week's terror attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team in Lahore, many observers are asking if the lawlessness and lack of security in Pakistan is an indication the country's becoming a failed state.

There's an impassioned debate and turmoil there, and earlier on I spoke to the cricket legend and Pakistani politician Imran Khan who runs the Movement for Justice Party.

He joined me from Islamabad and I asked him what impact last week's attack had had on his country.

IMRAN KHAN:

Well it's extremely tragic because� You know and I can tell you I was so embarrassed, like all Pakistanis, to see what happened to the Sri Lankan team.

I for one never thought a cricket team would be targeted. I still believe that the terrorists of this, you know the ideological terrorists did not target that team.

This was another� It was a plot probably to destabilise us economically. And it worked because it got major headlines.

ANDREW MARR:

So presumably this means no more international tournaments in Pakistan for quite a long time?

IMRAN KHAN:

The way things are here, I do not see any team coming to Pakistan - not cricket, not in any other sport.

ANDREW MARR:

You've recently suggested that Pakistan may be heading towards the status of a "pariah state". What did you mean by that?

IMRAN KHAN:

Pariah state in the sense that you know cricket teams, foreign sports teams are not going to visit us; and most important, and very significantly for Pakistan, there's no question of getting foreign investors in Pakistan. In fact, our businessmen to hold meetings now with foreigners have to go to Dubai. And so this attack reinforced the idea that this is a war zone.

ANDREW MARR:

So do you think that President Asif Zardari and his government have actually lost control of the country?

IMRAN KHAN:

Asif Zardari never had any control simply because he's bunkered into the presidency. Now imagine I'm in� All� Your two prime ministers have visited both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Both the American presidents you know have visited the troops there. Pakistan, which has probably lost far more troops than the Americans have in Afghanistan - in fact many times more troops than the Americans, not to mention our civilians - he has not even gone to any of the places. Forget about Fajar, the tribal areas or Swat, which is a settled district. He's bunkered in.

So you know� And the team he has. It's not just that he alone is petrified of being attacked, but it's the team which he's brought in is just not, does not have the capability.

ANDREW MARR:

The Indian Home Affairs Minister said on Friday that he thought that Pakistan could become a failed state. Do you think that's likely?

IMRAN KHAN:

I do not think Pakistan will become a failed state because it's a very resilient state. You know the people are very strong. They're used to crises. All it needs is a bit of stability for the country to start bubbling again. The problem we face right now is, in a way what he said is right - that the responsibility in a parliamentary democracy, which is based on the Westminster model, lies with the Prime Minister. But here the authority lies with the President, so he has usurped all the powers of Musharraf, who was a dictator, army chief. So he's got all the powers of Musharraf, but the responsibility is with the Prime Minister. No system can work where you divide authority and responsibility, so no wonder the government is paralysed.

ANDREW MARR:

And in the meantime dozens of people continue to die all the time. There was a report this week - another group of police killed by a car bomb up in the North West provinces. At least the impression of complete lawlessness up there, isn't there?

IMRAN KHAN:

Well you know we entered into a war which was not Pakistan's war, and we were taken in by a military dictator. Then we started doing exactly what the Americans were doing in Iraq and Afghanistan, using aerial bombardment to fight the war, killing lots of civilians, and slowly but surely the whole area rose up against us. So now where there were no Taleban before, the entire area has a new phenomena which is called Tehreek-e-Taleban Pakistan.

ANDREW MARR:

So what would be your message, for instance, to President Obama who clearly intends to pursue the war in Afghanistan and the border area even more vigorously?

IMRAN KHAN:

My message to President Obama is do not follow the tried and failed policies of George Bush. Learn something what happened to the Russians in Afghanistan. They killed 1.5 million Afghans. Still lost the war! This way of fighting a war by aerial bombardment, the whole area is getting radicalised. This country, this is going to go down the drain if this war continues. Forget about everything else, we can cope, but this war is draining this country. We should tell Obama save yourself, start negotiation, talk to the Taleban. Taleban were never your enemy; Taleban don't have the capacity to hit any Western targets. And help us get out of this mess, which was not of our making. We got stuck in someone else's war.

ANDREW MARR:

So are you saying that it would be better for Pakistan, for the British and the Americans in Afghanistan simply to leave and go home?

IMRAN KHAN:

You know what surprises me is the British have an understanding of Afghanistan. They've got a history. They know what Afghanistan is all about. They have an eighty year history of the tribal area. What surprises me is that why are they not advising the Americans that this is a disaster for all of us? I mean particularly this country, but also for the Americans, because this is just going to drain them. This war will go on and on and on. No-one can tell me right now what will happen for them to win the war. What are the objectives of this war? What are they trying to bring to Afghanistan? If it was Al-Qaeda then surely the sensible thing is isolate Al-Qaeda, not push all the people towards Al-Qaeda.

ANDREW MARR:

Imran Khan who joined me earlier from Islamabad.

INTERVIEW ENDS

Please note "The Andrew Marr Show" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

NB: This transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script.

Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy

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