On Sunday 15 February Andrew Marr interviewed Admiral Sir Jonathan Band, First Sea Lord Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used. The First Sea Lord, Admiral Sir Jonathon Band, on efforts to protect merchant shipping. ANDREW MARR:  Admiral Sir Jonathon Band, First Sea Lord |
Now it's the senior service, the oldest of the three armed services with a long and proud history, but the Royal Navy still plays a crucial role in military operations around the world. The deployments in Afghanistan and Iraq, for instance, would be impossible without it. And the Navy's also playing a big part in the international campaign against maritime crime. It's a growing menace, particularly off the coast of East Africa where Somali pirates have been capturing huge tankers and other ships and claiming multi-million dollar ransoms. Well to discuss this and many of the other challenges facing the modern navy, I'm joined by the First Sealord, Admiral Sir Jonathon Band. Good morning, Admiral. ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: Andrew, good morning. ANDREW MARR: Let's start with these pirates. We've all seen the pictures and the stories. It seems that people using very, very simple craft, a big outboard motor and a couple of cheap rocket launchers and a machine gun or two, can take these huge, huge ships hostage and it's almost impossible to stop them. ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: Certainly. The technology they're using is simple and they're brave. Of course pirates don't normally live at sea, they live ashore, and that's the basis of the problem. We'd love to go and be able to get them when they come, but that's not possible. So what we are doing is deterring with our allies and actually we've had a pretty successful period. I mean the last three days, there were four attacks attempted - none were successful - by a mixture of our ships, European ships, Chinese, Russians. We're all working together in this area. ANDREW MARR: And what do you actually do? Are you kind of scanning from the air to look for pirates on their way? ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: We're doing a number of things. One thing is we're escorting certain ships like the world food programme ships into places like Mogadishu where also we have established a lane, which we believe is the safest, safer area to go through. We talk to ships, we group them up. We don't convoy them, but we give them a sort of personalised service; and also all the various navies, depending on how they're organised, will keep talking. And in the last few months, I think we have definitely had a deterrent effect - helped, I must admit, by the weather, which has been pretty awful - and as the monsoon goes away we'll see how effective we can be, but I'm pretty confident. ANDREW MARR: When pirates get onto a ship, is there anything you can then do? Can you actually land people on a ship as well? ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: Well one could. Once they're on, frankly, I think you have to assess the situation. I mean the pirates seem to be essentially into getting money for the cargoes. They have on the whole looked after the crews. I think if they stopped looking after the crews, then we'd be into a different game. And we're not after ratcheting the situation, but we are trying to ensure that�Some eighty major merchant ships go through that part off Aden a day and we've just got to make sure that this bad behaviour at sea doesn't get established. And we've already seen insurance rates go up; we've seen merchant ships changing their routes. This must stop. ANDREW MARR: What are you going to do if and when you catch some because you can't return them to Somalia? Well you could return them to Somalia, but there's no courts there that are going to be effective. ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: No and this has, this has been one of the issues. We're now negotiating with a number of the illiteral states. There's one group of pirates which we, the Royal Navy dealt with about a month ago, are now being dealt with in Kenya, and I think this will be the pattern. This is the place to do it and we've got to have these arrangements in place because our own primary legislation does not suit us to bring them home to London to be dealt with. ANDREW MARR: Now I said at the beginning of this interview that the Navy had been very important in places like Afghanistan, and those struggling to remember their 'o' level geography will point out that Afghanistan is landlocked and wonder what the Navy is doing there. ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: Well the Navy, like the Airforce and the Army, I mean the main effort very much is the two campaigns over the last five years of Iraq and Afghanistan. And at the moment, it is actually very true that I mean over 30% of the force level in Afghanistan is Navy, is the Marines, naval helicopters, naval medics. If you get shot in Afghanistan tonight, it's almost certainly a naval medic that will look after you. A lot of logistics, tanker drivers, all sorts. In fact there's about two ships company worth of individuals, let alone the formed units. And that's exactly what we should be doing. ANDREW MARR: The Pentagon have been pretty withering about the British performance in Helmand Province and the South recently, suggesting that we've drawn back too quickly from particular strongholds, done perhaps some kind of deal from time to time, and that as a result the Taliban are in full flood again. Certainly the war is not going well. ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: I would counter that view very firmly, Andrew. I don't think there's any evidence that the Pentagon as a formal organisation has said that. Indeed, we've had General Petraeus in town recently who actually openly said what a good job the Brits are doing. Now it is tough country. I mean as evidenced again, another royal marine died yesterday. This is a tough fight. I believe tactically we're having some success - voter registration's going well, we're having a better year on the narcotics side. But what is true is 2009 - a year of elections, a year where we're waiting to hear what the new American administration� , a NATO Summit coming up - I mean I think strategically it's very important for the way ahead, but I think you'd be wrong to say that tactically we're losing. Or� ANDREW MARR: You think we're not? ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: Or that the, or that the Americans don't consider us very much the main ally. ANDREW MARR: What we do know is that the Americans are having a major review under Obama� ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: Absolutely! ANDREW MARR: �of strategy. Where do you expect that to take us? ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: I think it would be wrong to, wrong to speculate there, but I mean I think the factor is obviously it is an election year for Afghanistan and clearly the military is there to set the conditions for governance and the rule of law. Also I must say the situation in Pakistan, in Pakistan must be taken into account. But I believe it is that, it is�For us as the military, what is crucial is that our part in that strategy is a absolutely understood and is achievable, and that's what we'd be after. ANDREW MARR: And in Iraq, we're now getting used to the idea the British troops are about to leave, but actually the Navy's going to be there for a while. ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: I think it probably will. We have for some time been building up the new Iraqi Navy as the prime partner with the Iraqis, and I would hope� ANDREW MARR: (over) And they're important because of the oil rigs. ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: Well they are, exactly. I mean Iraq has a very, very small territorial sea, but what it does have in that territorial sea is two oil facilities out which come the vast majority of their oil. They must be protected. We're doing that today. I believe we will continue doing that for some time yet as part of a bilateral relationship with the Iraqis. I think we will continue to train their navy and indeed I think officer training generally. It's a subject which Britain is good at. A lot of people come to us, try service for our training. ANDREW MARR: Two big new aircraft carriers ordered a couple of years ago now. They're going to be delayed by at least one, maybe two years. Why is that? ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: Well we've got some you know pretty crucial decisions to make in the MoD. It is well known that our budget is under pressure. Why is it under pressure? Because we're both having to finance the campaigns we're running in, but also invest in the future. ANDREW MARR: The money, the Government's running out of money as well. I mean they're not going to be under less pressure in the future, are they? ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: Defence is always, has you know some drivers on it. I think the point I would stress to you is it's most important that we're not, we don't just spend money on today's war but that we also equip for the future, which I believe is no less certain. ANDREW MARR: So the delay in these ships is basically down to financial reasons? ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: It comes down to you know a setting of priorities. I mean importantly the programme is going ahead, but slightly more slowly to allow investment in today's things. ANDREW MARR: Not because we can't get the fighters on time? ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: Nothing to do with the fighters at all� ANDREW MARR: That's interesting. ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: �in respect that the fighters are planned to come, the fighter decision is a separate procurement decision which we would expect the Government to make. The Combo of course is what we want because the Combo will give us that capability. ANDREW MARR: And talking of fighters, you love the RAF and the RAF loves you and all these stories about you having terrible rows with them about the harrier� ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: (over) We do indeed get on extremely well and we have for their ninety years of existence. No, it is an important debate, this. We've got to make sure that the manning of this combination of aircraft carrier and fighter bomber is absolutely right for the future and you would expect the Chief of the Air Staff and myself to get keenly involved in� ANDREW MARR: (over) A robust discussion. ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: A robust discussion is fine. ANDREW MARR: Did you threaten to resign over this matter? ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: I would not threaten to resign on a matter such as that, and certainly if I was thinking of ending my career I certainly wouldn't discuss it in public at all. It's a very private�It's an emotion. We have�Defence is an important business. Issues are keenly debated by the Chiefs of Staff. That I think is what you'd want. Though clearly when these debates, there's a little bit of evidence of them, then the media can make the most of them. None of us are talking about going early. We're there to provide the best for this country in pretty difficult times. ANDREW MARR: Well if you do feel like making any kind of announcement, come back by all means and make it on this sofa. Thank you very much indeed for joining us, Admiral. ADMIRAL SIR JONATHON BAND: Thank you, Andrew. INTERVIEW ENDS
Please note "The Andrew Marr Show" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.
NB: This transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy
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