Election: 'a turning point in America's relationship with the world'

Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

The Foreign Secretary says an Obama presidency creates "an agenda of reform" -- and is good for Britain too.

ANDREW MARR: President-elect Obama's pitch to the American people made it clear he's hoping for a different approach to international relations.

He's opposed the Iraq War, he's committed to getting American troops out in 16 months, and he's going to talk to those like Iranians that America has differences with.

So what difference will all of that make to Britain? Foreign Secretary David Miliband will be on the sharp end of watching and shaping a new relationship. Welcome.

DAVID MILIBAND: Good morning, Andrew. ANDREW MARR: It's going to be a new relationship, but not necessarily a special relationship in the old way. Obama does not have great British connections.

DAVID MILIBAND: I think that the special relationship is founded more than on personal chemistry. It's founded on shared values and a shared agenda.

We defend the transatlantic alliance between Britain and America and also between Europe and America when America is unpopular and when America is popular because America has a unique capacity to make a difference in the world, and if you want to make a difference you need America on your side.

I think that the result of Tuesday's election isn't just realignment within American politics. It also heralds fundamental change in America's relationship with the rest of the world and I think that that will have big and positive effects for Britain.

ANDREW MARR: No doubt your diplomats have been producing lots and lots of briefing and so on, but to what extent is Obama in terms of his foreign policies, attitudes to the world still a bit of an unknown?

DAVID MILIBAND: Well I think that the President-elect has been very clear that there's only one President at a time and he's not going to be presumptuous before January 20th, but he's laid out a very clear agenda. He is an instinctive multilateralist. He's clear that issues of environment and climate change, as well as issues of conflict and security, are at the heart of modern foreign policy. He's also made clear that he understands that there's a new world out there; that you can't run the world just from the G7, the Group of 7 industrialised countries. You have to fashion a global settlement that includes the Chinas and Indias of this world, but also the developing countries. I think that that gives us an opportunity to refashion international institutions and an approach to foreign policy in a very fundamental way.

ANDREW MARR: The new world that Obama promises or has talked about in general terms, the sort of specifics here that are important among other countries - for Britain too.

DAVID MILIBAND: I think that Tuesday's election wasn't just important for America. It was important for the rest of the world. It represents a turning point in America's relationship with the rest of the world and it creates an agenda of reform - reforming international institutions; reforming America's relationship with the Arab world in the Middle East; reforming the image of America, which in the end is very important to all of us because America is the leader of a grand coalition of countries that are committed to values of democracy, human rights and personal freedom. And that is something that we need to see spread and I think an Obama administration will do that.

ANDREW MARR: So good news in the Middle East you think in particular?

DAVID MILIBAND: I think that Condie Rice, who I'll speak to later on today, has worked heroically over the last year to try to take forward the Middle East peace process. But what is the lesson of the Bush administration when it comes to the Middle East and the creation of a Palestinian state? I think it is first you can't wait until year seven to really get stuck in on this Palestinian issue because it's an absolute cancer at the heart of the Middle East and actually is used around the world as a recruiting sergeant for extremism. Secondly, we need a genuinely comprehensive approach - not just peace between Israel and the Palestinians, but the whole Arab world coming to terms with the need for Israel to have its security and in return a Palestinian state created on those 1967 borders that are so important.

ANDREW MARR: And do you think that President Obama will in due course kickstart this?

DAVID MILIBAND: I think that people are asking President Obama to get engaged on the Middle East from day one and I believe he will.

ANDREW MARR: Now President-elect Obama has talked in specific terms about the Middle East in some detail. When would you expect British troops to be out of Iraq?

DAVID MILIBAND: Well the Prime Minister's made very, very clear that there'll be a fundamental shift in the nature of our relationship with the Iraqi government after the spring of this year, and that fundamental shift happens because Britain's job, which now is about training the 14th Division of the Iraqi Army, will effectively be over, and we will move to what the Prime Minister has called "a normal relationship" with the Government of Iraq. It will be a relationship between allies and friendly nations, but it won't involve the sort of troop deployments that we've got there at the moment.

ANDREW MARR: And it's also clear that Obama would like to see much more of an effort being made in Afghanistan. If he comes knocking on the door and says, "I'd like the British troops from Iraq to be moved over to Afghanistan", what will our answer be?

DAVID MILIBAND: Well our answer will be that the needs in Afghanistan need to be judged on their own merits. You've heard the Chief of the Defence Staff this morning talk about the fact that the Afghan National Army now has 60, 65,000 troops of its own and that the role of the international community is to help build that up so that they can defend themselves. We're there for a very clear reason in Afghanistan. If foreign troops weren't there, then the democratic government would get rolled over. And I think that our answer on burden sharing is yes there should be burden sharing. We're bearing a significant part of the burden already - 8,100 British troops there.

ANDREW MARR: So we would not necessarily be wanting to put more British troops into Helmand province?

DAVID MILIBAND: Not necessarily, no. I mean we will look at what new American deployments are going to be.

ANDREW MARR: Well take out the "necessarily" from there.

DAVID MILIBAND: Well no, you put the "necessarily" in ?

ANDREW MARR: Ah!

DAVID MILIBAND: ? so I was quite pleased about that, I was quite pleased about that. President-elect Obama has said that he wants two new brigades to go in. There are an extra 1500 French troops going in. The Germans have actually increased their number of troops as well. But as the second largest contributor in Afghanistan, obviously the first thing we say is we don't want to bear an unfair share of the burden.

The second thing we say - and I think this is important as well as you look at the new American strategy - more troops on their own, more foreign troops on their own are not going to provide the answer in Afghanistan. It needs to be an approach that does combine serious security presence, but also the development of a country that is the 174th poorest country in the world, a country that tackles the corruption that you rightly alluded to in the different levels of Afghan government. And this is in the end about making Afghanistan safe for its own people from Taliban and, therefore, from entry by Al Qaeda, but also thereby making us safe, and that has to be an approach that genuinely combines politics ?

ANDREW MARR: Yes.

DAVID MILIBAND: ? and economics as well as security.

ANDREW MARR: But this ar?

DAVID MILIBAND: ? and I think that you will see ? I think it's important to say I see from what President-elect Obama has said shared values with the British government. I see a shared agenda in terms of Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Middle East, climate change, but I also see some shared insights about what works in foreign policy in the modern world.

ANDREW MARR: But this idea of a big surge to sort it out is for the birds, isn't it?

DAVID MILIBAND: Well it's got to be a, what I call a civilian surge as well as a military surge, and that is the lesson from Iraq as well as from Afghanistan. On its own, more foreign troops are not going to make Afghanistan safe.

ANDREW MARR: Iran. Inconceivable that there would be a sudden attack before there's a change of presidency.

DAVID MILIBAND: Well I think that we - and by that I mean the Americans as well as the European countries and China and Russia - are 100% focused on a diplomatic resolution to the Iranian problem. The Iranian problem, let's be absolutely clear, is that the Government of Iran is in defiance of five UN Security Council resolutions; it's in defiance of the International Atomic Energy Authority as well. Why was we cannot, was they have not been able to show that their intensions in respect of nuclear power are purely civilian.

The danger from Iran is that the pursuit of a nuclear weapon by that country triggers an arms race in the Middle East; and for all the problems in the Middle East, the last thing it can stand is a nuclear arms race and so the stakes are very high. 2009 is going to be a very important year for the Iranian issue and the ball is in the Iranian court. We, along with the Americans, have made a very clear offer to Iran - economic benefit, civilian nuclear power benefit is on the table if you suspend your programme that is leaking into a nuclear weapons programme. That is why the stakes are so high.

ANDREW MARR: And to be absolutely clear, you said 100% focus on a diplomatic solution - so before January 20th no kind of attack, nothing ? Because there's been this talk, as you know, of President Bush wanting to finish this business before he leaves.

DAVID MILIBAND: President Bush and Condoleezza Rice decided to send the most senior American diplomat to the talks process that was held with allies from Europe and Russia and China with the Iranians. That was a very significant acknowledgement, that is the diplomatic track that needs to work, but the ball is in the Iranian court. They are in defiance of successive UN Security Council resolutions. The situation is serious because the whole Arab world, never mind Israel, are extremely concerned about the nuclear weapon pretensions of Iran.

ANDREW MARR: Let's turn to the Congo. I'm sorry to keep asking you about troops, but it's the world that we're in at the moment. Is there any prospect of British troops having to go to the Congo?

DAVID MILIBAND: Well that's not on the agenda, no.

ANDREW MARR: It's not going to happen.

DAVID MILIBAND: Part of the, part of the purpose of my visit there last weekend with the French Foreign Minister was to make sure that the African Union engaged properly. We visited Kinshasa, the capital of the Democratic Republic of Congo; we visited Goma and one of the refugee camps that is coping with very, very large numbers of people; and we also went to Kigali in Rwanda because it's obviously important that there is a proper regional solution. You won't get that without the African Union engaging and that's why we went to Tanzania to talk to the President of the African Union. I see and I hear - and Mark Malloch Brown, our minister, was at the conference in Nairobi yesterday - a real African recognition that they're going to have to get engaged with this militarily as well as politically to get this thing resolved.

ANDREW MARR: It was said at the time of the Russian incursion into Georgia that they would be sort of punished and kept out in the cold and all the rest of it. Now there's talk of missiles being put into Kaliningrad and it appears that they've got away with it absolutely free.

DAVID MILIBAND: Well that's certainly not the view that we have. Getting away with it would mean that their unilateral recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent states had been followed around the world and they were members of the UN. What in fact has happened, only one other country has recognised Abkhazia and South Ossetia. And we are not seeking to isolate Russia. I don't believe it's a good policy for European countries to seek to isolate Russia because actually in some ways a weak Russia has proved itself historically to be more dangerous than a strong Russia. We do not seek to isolate Russia.

What we make sure though is that if Russia isolates itself through its actions, we are clear that you can't go on with business as usual. The sight of Russian troops in a neighbouring country, the use of force rather than the rule of law to decide territorial disputes on the edge of Europe, that is not acceptable and it's right that we don't have business as usual with the Russians. But equally we don't say to them we want to push you out into the cold. That would be a bad thing to do and that's why I don't support breaking off diplomatic relations or kicking them out of international organisations. They're part, they need to be part of the solutions to the modern world.

ANDREW MARR: More reports in the papers today about Peter Mandelson's involvement with Oleg Deripaska. Are you entirely comfortable having him back in cabinet?

DAVID MILIBAND: Absolutely. I mean Peter has said very, very clearly that at no stage did he violate any of the rules or norms that applied to his previous job.

ANDREW MARR: He saw it ? He's a bit sticky when these stories appear. (Miliband sighs) They kind of stick to him.

DAVID MILIBAND: Well no, I think he's getting on with his job.

ANDREW MARR: For whatever reason.

DAVID MILIBAND: He's getting on with his job. There are people who are trying to have a pop at him, but actually he's getting on with his job and he's a big asset to the Government. He brings international engagement on business issues. He's now working very, very closely with the Prime Minister on small business and other matters, and that focus on the economic agenda I think is very important right across government.

ANDREW MARR: Back at the beginning of the summer, you said that in effect Labour had to get its act together; there was a lack of direction or a lack of ? you know people didn't understand the direction you were going in and why. Has all of that passed now?

DAVID MILIBAND: Well this is a very difficult time for any government anywhere in the world, but I think that the Prime Minister has shown outstanding leadership in the face of this economic crisis. He has rallied ?

ANDREW MARR: So you're no longer concerned about him?

DAVID MILIBAND: Well I've always said that Gordon will lead us forward into the next General Election. I've always said he was the right leader last year, this year and next year. But we all have a collective responsibility to focus on two things and Gordon's been very, very clear and good about emphasising this. We have an economic crisis that needs relentless focus, but we also need to remember that come the next General Election we will have to set out a very clear vision across domestic and international policy about how we're going to take the country forward. My responsibility, my first responsibility as Foreign Secretary is to make sure that on the international stage we are developing that agenda, so that come the next election a Labour government is able to say we were the right people to manage the economic crisis, but we're also the right people to take Britain forward to be the right sort of country in 2015.

ANDREW MARR: There was the sort of half beginnings of a coup being discussed earlier in the year and people were promoting you as an alternative leader. What would you say to them now?

DAVID MILIBAND: Well I have never supported the murmurings or rumblings that you refer to in respect of triggering a leadership ?

ANDREW MARR: (over) Now you came out in public. You were very straightforward. You came out in public. You said this is what I think and ?

DAVID MILIBAND: Well the best thing to say is Gordon was the right man last year, he's the right man this year, he's the right man next year. Why? Because he's got the right values, he's also got the right insights into the economic and social and political challenges of the modern world, and he's also now I think got the bit between his teeth in terms of really taking the country forward, and I think that is an exciting moment for the country.

ANDREW MARR: Sometimes it seems that the worse things are, the more cheerful he gets, but ?

DAVID MILIBAND: Well no, I think that he's someone who's got a relentless sense of engagement with the problems that Britain faces, but he's also got a very clear drive to make things better because that's why he came into public service.

ANDREW MARR: Now I have to ask you. The party conference, a slightly rough experience for you. There was the endless photographs, the banana moment. The most deadly piece of fruit in British political history. What was all that about?

DAVID MILIBAND: (laughs) It was my breakfast! That was my breakfast. (Marr laughs) So if that's the worse thing, then ?

ANDREW MARR: But do you think people ? Were people after you that time- photographers looking for those images, looking for those moments?

DAVID MILIBAND: Well it's probably more interesting, it might have been more interesting than me making a speech. Hopefully though there's some attention to the content of the speech. But, look, in the end this is about a government that is led clearly by and decisively by Gordon on the big issues. We've got to take the rough with the smooth. We can't take ourselves too seriously. When we have silly photos that aren't, that aren't a PR adviser's dream (Marr laughs) you've got to sort of grin and bear it because in the end what counts are the values and the drive and the sense of vision, and I think that's what we're all trying to contribute to.

ANDREW MARR: I suppose what drove the sort of frantic atmosphere around that conference was a sense that the Labour Party, the Labour Government was completely doomed. It was going down to a historic smashing election defeat sooner or later. Post-Glenrothes - and the opinion polls, you're still way, way back in the opinion polls - is there that sort of sense that perhaps it could be turned round?

DAVID MILIBAND: I think there's a sense of game on, game on, because over the last three or four months you've seen a government reacting decisively to the challenges, the most important challenges of the international and domestic economy and you've seen an opposition falling apart in terms of its own prospectus. I think that that is a signal, an important moment in British politics because it's saying there's a real fight to be had out there about the future of the country and that is something that I think we should relish.

ANDREW MARR: Foreign Secretary, thank you very much.

DAVID MILIBAND: Thank you.

INTERVIEW ENDS

Please note "The Andrew Marr Show" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

NB: This transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script.

Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy

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