By-election looming

The PM should campaign in Glenrothes, says Sir Menzies Campbell.

Sir Menzies Campbell MP

EMILY MAITLIS: Sir Ming welcome.

Do you think Obama managed to bury those nagging doubts about him?

MING CAMPBELL: There were three things really. There was the question of patriotism.

And of course his wife was right in the firing line about that. And there was a question of how you deal with the Clintons.

The question of how you deal with the issue of Commander in Chief. All three seem to me to have been covered to some extent but there are still doubts.

And in particular there are doubts about what role the Clintons will play. It's well known they're still out of sorts about the way in which Hillary failed to win the nomination. Hillary's Women are not convinced, all of them.

And of course on the issue of commander in chief they paraded twenty one admirals and generals on the podium on the last night in the Denver Broncos football stadium all to say that Barack Obama was ready to be Commander in Chief.

But I heard Richard Holbrook, well known American expert in foreign affairs say that a new president will face more challenging foreign policy issues than any other president in history.

EMILY MAITLIS: Well let's pick on two points there. The Hillary's women and indeed the Commander in Chief look at Sarah Palin for a moment. Is that brilliant or catastrophic?

MING CAMPBELL: Well I think what it does is it undermines the republican's charge that the Obama/Biden administration will be short of experience because this is a woman who's been mayor of her local town, nine thousand inhabitants.

I think she's been eighteen months as the Governor of Alaska - not the most populous, not the most front line if you like of the states of the United States - Of course it's an effort to try and utilise the annoyance that there is among women who thought that Hillary was going to get the nomination. But remember she's got to take part in these debates now. And in particular she'll be up against Joe Biden, thirty six years in the Senate, extremely experienced. I think she's going to find it pretty tough.

EMILY MAITLIS: And to neutralise his age. I mean you must have sympathies with a leader who is trying to revitalise from that perspective, to come across as ..

MING CAMPBELL: Yeah but remember in the United States they don't regard age in the same rather narrow way that we do in this country. Remember Ronald Reagan was at or about that age when he won his second term. I think what it does mean about McCain is that the people will see him almost certainly as a one term president.

And of course the other issue which people don't mention publicly is of course if you have someone aged over seventy then the question of the Vice President as they say being a heartbeat away from the presidency is rather more acute.

EMILY MAITLIS: And she could then become the first woman president ..

MING CAMPBELL: Absolutely.

EMILY MAITLIS: .. that Hillary always dreamed of.

MING CAMPBELL: Yeah.

EMILY MAITLIS: But the ..

MING CAMPBELL: And, and the Commander in Chief remember. So if people are concerned about Barack Obama being Commander in Chief how about this person who is relatively inexperienced ..

EMILY MAITLIS: And ..

MING CAMPBELL: .. even by American political service.

EMILY MAITLIS: And yet the polls are neck and neck. How would you explain that?

MING CAMPBELL: I think that there is, in relation to Barack Obama, although people don't talk about it, there is just a hint that having a black man, a black family as the first family is something which people still haven't become entirely reconciled to. I think the experience issue has been around. I think the Commander in Chief issue has been around.

But a wise commentator said to me in the course of the week in Denver "You should never look at the opinion polls for the Democrats until the Republicans have had their convention" because in 1988 Dukakis left his convention Atlanta with a lead of seventeen per cent and still lost.

EMILY MAITLIS: Okay, let's weave our way home via Georgia though. Some interesting comments from Nigel Farage who said we've pushed things too far with EU enlargement.

MING CAMPBELL: Well I was interested in that because the implication from that appeared to be that somehow Russia's got a veto over membership of either the European Union or NATO. Now that can't possibly be the case.

And there's another issue too which I don't think has, has been focused on very much. Countries are very keen to join the EU, to join the European Union and NATO because it helps to buttress their move into democratic countries ..

EMILY MAITLIS: Well ..

MING CAMPBELL: .. where the rule of law matters, m...

EMILY MAITLIS: Well what about Gordon Brown's comments today then - sorry to come in - but root and branch reappraisal of our relationship with Russia now. What does that mean and can we afford it?

MING CAMPBELL: Well I think it was very general and not particularly specific. You're quite right to raise the question of can we afford it because of course Europe in general is very reliant on, on Russian energy. I think we've got to make clear our displeasure about the way in which Russia has acted - outrageously.

But if by doing so with the, in a particular way, and with particular language, we drive Russia into isolation then s... Russia in isolation will be even more difficult to deal with. And that's why when people talk about expulsion from the G8 and things of that kind I think they've got to understand what the possible consequences of that would be to the Russian government's attitude.

EMILY MAITLIS: You talked about rather general comments from Gordon Brown. He is facing a tough return across the political divide. You have remained close friends.

MING CAMPBELL: Well I'm not worried for him. Because although he's a friend of mine his politics are his politics and mine are mine. We're facing an interesting by-election in Fife next door to my constituency ..

EMILY MAITLIS: Should he canvass?

MING CAMPBELL: .. and next door to his. If I was him I would go and canvas frankly because he's a Fife MP. People will see that. People locally will see that as being more important in a sense than being Prime Minister. This is a very, very important by-election. I'm going canvassing there. I'd be very surprised if Gordon Brown didn't.

EMILY MAITLIS: You know what it feels like to get turfed out by your own party. Is he there yet?

MING CAMPBELL: I think you've got to ask them that. I mean one of the obstacles I think to any question of the removal of Gordon Brown is this. I don't think Labour could afford to have a second coronation in the sense of whoever won a leadership contest automatically becoming prime minister.

I think there would have to be a general election. And which Labour MP have you met in the last three or four weeks who's ready to face a general election?

EMILY MAITLIS: But when you read comments from the chancellor, when we remember those comments from David Miliband earlier in the summer do you see a gathering of pace again? Is, is someone out there for the job?

MING CAMPBELL: I think, well there's always, there's always someone wants to lead political parties. Maybe they should talk to those who have led them first before they get quite so enthusiastic about it. There's anxiety. And you know the anxiety which drives politicians more than any other is will I lose my seat. And that's clearly anxiety throughout the Labour Party.

The difficulty for the Prime Minister is that he's in a very, very complex economic position in which of course he has claimed all the credit for what happened the last ten years and is now saying well what's happening now which is adverse and something for which I have no responsibility.

But he's certainly not helped by the apocalyptic tones of the Chancellor of the Exchequer about this being the worst recession for sixty years.

EMILY MAITLIS: Okay.

MING CAMPBELL: The extraordinary thing about, I mean the weakness of, well that's demonstrated that having given this interview the following day he had to come out and clarify it.

EMILY MAITLIS: Ming Campbell, thanks very much indeed.

INTERVIEW ENDS

Please note "The Andrew Marr Show" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

NB: This transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script.

Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy

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