Burma: Aid 'not nearly enough'

International Development Secretary: 'horrified' by the situation.

Douglas Alexander MP, Secretary of State for International Development

ANDREW MARR: Mr Alexander, what's the latest you can tell us about negotiations between Britain and other countries and the Burmese government?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: Well we are talking at the United Nations level to countries in the region like China and India and obviously to the Burmese regime themselves.

Just a few minutes before I came on air I spoke to the British ambassador in Rangoon. He painted a very complex and mixed picture as to what's actually happening.

There has been a significant concern expressed right across the international community about the approach adopted by the regime.

But there are more flights landing in Rangoon, there were more flights over night. There is some evidence that there is more latitude in terms of the NGOs being able to deliver the aid within country.

But frankly it's not nearly enough. We've been horrified by what we've seen in the last week.

ANDREW MARR: And people are dying by the day as a result of this. So far as you're aware lorries are still being held. They're not, they're not fanning out across the country as they should be?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: No there has been progress. I was hearing from our head of the DFID Office in Rangoon as I say just a few minutes ago when we did a conference call that forty lorries were leaving Rangoon and heading south.

I spoke over night to the Director of Save The Children who assured me that in terms of the money that British people are giving to Save The Children, because they have had a long presence in Burma they're actually getting the aid out.

They're reaching about ten thousand more people every day. But there's a huge amount that still needs to be done. By way of contrast we've just managed to get our assessment team into the country in the last few hours. When we had the earthquake in Pakistan within twenty four hours we both had British search and rescue teams and our aid teams actually on the ground within Pakistan.

ANDREW MARR: And what's your assessment at the moment, first of all of the number of people who have died and the number of people now seriously at risk of dying?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: Well we're greatly hampered in making an accurate assessment by the unwillingness of the regime to allow the normal assessment process to take place.

The latest estimates range to about a hundred thousand - that's a WFP estimate - of people who have either been killed or are missing. My fear is that that number will rise significantly as more work is done in the days to come to assess the full scale of this tragedy.

ANDREW MARR: In the House of Commons it was suggested that perhaps what should happen is that the West should simply move in and ignore the Burmese government. Bernard Kouchner the French Foreign Minister ..

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: The French Foreign Minister ..

ANDREW MARR: .. has suggested that Dennis McShane on your own back bench as former minister has said the same. Might that moment come?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: Well we're looking at a whole range of possibilities in terms of what we can do. But we need to recognise that just in terms of effectiveness getting the aid to the people who so desperately need it, by far the most optimal way for that to happen is with the consent of the regime and the support of the regime.

But even a very advanced government - and the Burmese government is certainly not that - would be stretched to breaking point trying to distribute the volume of aid that is required given the scale of this tragedy. That's why what we want to see is Asian partners, the government itself, the whole international community first of all being able to get aid onto the ground and then being able to distribute it within country.

ANDREW MARR: Because the United Nations, the relevant United Nations document says, talks about the responsibility to protect populations under imminent and drastic threat which this population certainly is.

On the one hand you don't want to march into Burma if you don't have to. On the other hand every hour you delay potentially people are dying.

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: Well of course. I mean the French raised the issue at the Security Council during the week. There wasn't support and it's right to acknowledge that there is divided opinion within the international community as the applicability of responsibility to protect or other legal doctrines.

That's why our focus this week has been on working with Ban Ki-moon the Secretary General of the United Nations, making calls to those countries like China and India who are deemed to have influence with the regime and also working with the British aid agencies who are already on the ground, making sure that the work gets done.

The assessment that was offered to me within the last few minutes is that there has been progress in the last twenty four hours.

The World Food Programme who previously had had food impounded at the airport has had that food released. Agencies such as Save The Children are able to actually distribute within country.

ANDREW MARR: So the government is starting very slowly possibly to move?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: So the suggestions from Rangoon is that there has been some movement. We need to see that movement accelerate because with every passing day lives will be lost needlessly.

It is a tragedy which risks becoming a second catastrophe with communicable diseases, people weakened already by having been isolated and vulnerable now for a week. We need to see action quickly from the Burmese government.

ANDREW MARR: Right.

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: But we're determined to try and do everything we can to bring that outcome to bear.

ANDREW MARR: Let's turn if we may to a couple of domestic issues. Wendy Alexander, your sister, leading the Scottish Labour Party says she wants a referendum. Gordon Brown, some would say your mentor down in London says he doesn't. Where do you stand?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: Well what Wendy's done this week is called the SNP's bluff. They were elected on a manifesto of having a referendum but they've made very clear in their response to what Wendy said this week that they have no intention of bringing forward a referendum until they've fermented more grudge and grievance. Every day Alex Salmond gets up in Scotland and tells Scotland it's hard done by by Westminster.

And then he comes on programmes like this and tells the English that somehow the Scots have it so much better. The real challenge is to make sure that we maintain what the Scottish people want and I believe most people in Britain want which is to maintain Scotland's place within the United Kingdom.

ANDREW MARR: Do you think there should be a referendum?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: I'm not convinced that now is the time for a referendum. But I recognise as Gordon Brown said in an interview this morning that those of us who believe profoundly in the United Kingdom have to be willing to contemplate what steps are necessary to secure the United Kingdom against those who want to break up the United Kingdom ..

ANDREW MARR: So not, so not ..

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: .. which is the position of the nationalists.

ANDREW MARR: So not now but in due course you think a referendum might be the right way forward?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: I'm not contemplating a referendum. I am saying those of us who have an interest in defending the United Kingdom have to be prepared to take what action is necessary to defend it.

Those who are in a minority in Scotland, and I believe a minority in England who want to threaten the United Kingdom don't have the United Kingdom's interests at heart. We do and that's why we need to try and strengthen Scotland's place within the United Kingdom and defend the country from those who actually want to do it harm.

ANDREW MARR: Another weekend of pretty bleak headlines for the prime minister. If you lose Crewe and Nantwich badly is it game over for Gordon Brown?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: Well listen, bi-elections are always tough. We're working hard to win the Crewe and Nantwich bi-election. I myself have stood in two bi-elections.

There aren't many who can claim that. But we've recognised, Gordon Brown recognised in this very seat last week that these are challenging and difficult times for people. They're worried about mortgages, about food, about fuel.

That's why we need to be seen to recognise those concerns and to act upon them, to make clear the fundamental differences between ourselves and the Conservative Party. And that's exactly what we intend to do.

ANDREW MARR: Among the many memoirs out today or discussed over the last couple of days, Cherie Blair says that Gordon Brown was constantly trying to become prime minister all the way through, causing terrible problems for Tony Blair, and makes it pretty clear that she thinks he's getting his comeuppance.

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: Well Cherie's got a book to sell, Michael Levy's got a book to sell. It seems to be the time of year for memoirs. I think the important thing which actually is what people care about is the fact that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown working together delivered ten years of economic prosperity.

And I think most people, when they actually reflect on those ten years recognise Britain as fairer, stronger and richer as a result.

ANDREW MARR: Yeah. Despite all those sharp-ended books sticking in the Labour Party's back. All right, Douglas Alexander, thank you very much indeed for now.

INTERVIEW ENDS

Please note "The Andrew Marr Show" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

NB: This transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script.

Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy

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