UKIP leader calls for radical cut in MPs' allowances.

Nigel Farage MEP

ANDREW MARR: Welcome Mr Farage.

NIGEL FARAGE: Thank you.

ANDREW MARR: Thanks a lot. Now you can't stop this, you can't. There's nothing you can do in parliament about this.

But it's one of those issues you might have thought would be dominating the front pages and slightly strangely hasn't been, has it?

NIGEL FARAGE: Yeah you're right. I mean the papers, there are lots of political stories today but almost nothing about the debate going through the House of Commons, for a Treaty that is so fundamental that it will allow the European Union, if it wants to, to literally legislate in every area of our lives. So why is it not there in the Sunday papers? Well the answer is simple.

It's because despite the fact there are twenty five or so Labour rebels who intend to vote for a Referendum Amendment, the Liberal Democrats, who despite being elected at the last time round in two thousand and five saying they would support a Referendum on the Treaty, have decided to back the government. And you know fifteen years ago with Maastricht the papers were full of 'will the government win, will the government lose'. Well it looks like with Lib Dem support the government are going to win and we're not going to get that Referendum.

ANDREW MARR: So people aren't concentrating on this at all. And yet this is the same Treaty that there's been lots of stories about Tony Blair perhaps wanting to be President of Europe. This comes from the same Treaty.

NIGEL FARAGE: I'm afraid it does. And it's a Treaty that the French killed and the Dutch buried. And that should have been the end of it. But of course in the European Union they don't take no for an answer.

What they've done is they've taken the same constitution, maintained all the substance, repackaged and presented it and told us we're just going to have to swallow it. And I just think the whole thing is the most dishonest exercise I've ever seen in politics.

ANDREW MARR: So a lot of people will be asking so what can be done about it. Now David Cameron - it's slightly confusing - but he has suggested that if the Conservatives win the next election they will reopen the whole matter.

NIGEL FARAGE: I consider that to be pretty unlikely. Because if we were to have a referendum on a Treaty that had already been ratified well that would be akin to saying if this goes through I will give you a referendum on our continued membership of the EU. Now if David Cameron is saying that I'd say fantastic. That's great. But I don't really think that he is.

ANDREW MARR: And what about, what about UKIP? Because you've got all those MEPs. You lost one to an expenses scam didn't you?

NIGEL FARAGE: Yeah.

ANDREW MARR: Robert Kilroy-Silk went off to form his own short lived party. But, and there's been another expenses problem. Has UKIP's sort of moment passed or are you in fairly fine fettle?

NIGEL FARAGE: Well you know when you go from being a very small party in terms of representation to being as big as the Liberal Democrats, which is what happened to us in two thousand and four, there are going to be one or two hiccups along the way.

Goodness me, we're not the only party are we this week to have had one or two hiccups. However, if this Treaty goes through, as I suspect it will, without a referendum, the first major national test on it will be the European elections in June two thousand and nine. And I would have thought that our potential to secure a big vote is even greater than it was back in two thousand and four.

ANDREW MARR: What about sort of Tories who take a lot of the same views as you do, or positions as you do? I mean Daniel Hannan has been mentioned, MEP. Well he's a Conservative MEP. But you've been, you've applauded many of the things he's said and done.

Do you think that you're, you could either see a sort of deal whereby you didn't stand against some Tory MEPs or you could even have some Conservatives coming over to you?

NIGEL FARAGE: Well it won't work with MEPs because they're party lists, so in the case of ..

ANDREW MARR: Right okay.

NIGEL FARAGE: In, in the case of Daniel Hannan for argument's sake whilst we may think Daniel Hannan's an awfully good chap, we'd find the other three or four MEPs in his area were not particularly to our liking.

So that won't work. I mean listen, we will not stand in the next general election against MPs from the Conservative or Labour parties who are prepared to campaign on the same issues that we are. We will always try and put what we see as the national interest above our own party interest.

ANDREW MARR: Now as we've said, lots of stories about expenses and so on in the papers today. How different is it over at the European Parliament?

NIGEL FARAGE: Oh ..

ANDREW MARR: Because people say of course it's nothing compared with what goes on over there.

NIGEL FARAGE: Well I think the European system is even more open to abuse than the UK system. But the one story that hits me with this row this week, following on from Derek Conway, that no one's talking about, is we're paying more and more politicians, giving them bigger and bigger allowances for doing less and less work.

I mean goodness me, seventy five per cent of our laws aren't even made in Westminster. And to me the best way to solve this is to radically cut the allowances that MPs get.

ANDREW MARR: But not the number of MPs probably.

NIGEL FARAGE: I would do that as well. I mean listen you know if we're not making our own laws and governing ourselves why on earth do we need six hundred and forty six full time members of parliament?

ANDREW MARR: A popular point I suspect. Thank you ..

NIGEL FARAGE: Not in Westminster.

ANDREW MARR: Thank you very much indeed Nigel Farage.

INTERVIEW ENDS

Please note "The Andrew Marr Show" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used.

NB: This transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script.

Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy

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