By Julian Knight BBC News Online personal finance reporter

All the twenty-somethings we spoke to were quick to recognise that they would have to save for retirement.

Daniel Church, a 27-year-old credit control account executive, said: "I find it highly unlikely that the Government will provide me with a pension."

The group was also realistic about how much they would have to put away every week.

The burden [of pension provision] will shift to individuals but it should not

Jonathan Davies Management consultant

Saving between �50 and �100 a week - currently in line with best advice - was the average that our group thought necessary to provide for a comfortable retirement.

So far, so good.

UK PENSIONS IN CRISIS Key pension facts and figures at a glance In pictures

However, it soon became clear that our twenty-somethings were either not putting anything away, or saving a smaller figure than they themselves deemed necessary.

Some were simply unaware of how much they were saving in a pension as the "company took care of it".

Work and pensions

Having a pension, though, did not mean that our group could explain how one works.

Jocelyn Hallum, a 26-year-old marketing executive for a leading supermarket, said: "I have a stakeholder pension but I do not know if it is a good or bad product.

"Paying into a pension just seemed the right thing to do when the company offered it to me."

In fact, all those who had a pension had started it at work.

And that reinforces a key point of last summer's Pickering report into the future of UK pensions which said the link between the workplace and retirement provision must be retained.

Jocelyn Hallum was unsure of her pension choice

The nanny state?

However, our twenty-somethings questioned whether they should have to save for their retirement at all.

Instead, they believed the government was obliged to provide an adequate retirement income.

"I would like to think the government would look after me, they are under an obligation by definition to look after individuals, considering that I have already contributed to National Insurance," Mr Church, the credit control account executive, said.

But in the main they were not under any illusions and did not expect the government to pay out enough to live on.

"The burden will shift to individuals but it should not," said Jonathan Davies, a 29-year-old management consultant.

Let's face it, young people and pensions traditionally do not mix.

They are too busy having fun, clambering up the career ladder or even starting families to worry about how they are going to pay for their old age.

Anyway, the State will provide, what else are National Insurance contributions for?

But young people may just now be realising that with people living longer there may not be enough workers to support them in retirement.

Individual responsibility

If current trends continue, 35% of the UK population will be of pensionable age by 2030.

And with a declining birth rate the pension cake that the retired have to share is set to get a lot smaller.

In addition, company final salary pension schemes, many people's bulwark against an impoverished retirement, are being closed.

And it is unlikely that the government will pick up the bill.

Most commentators agree that, more than ever, the onus is on the individual to provide for his or her own retirement.

Less money than they thought

Today's twenty-somethings are the pensioners of tomorrow, and how they view pensions will be key to whether they face an impoverished or prosperous old age.

As for what a sizeable pension pot would mean in terms of income, all guessed that they would receive more bang for their buck than they actually would.

A pension fund worth a quarter of a million would buy them an income of at least �20,000 for the rest of their life, most said.

However, with annuity rates - which determine the annual income paid from a pension fund - at the lowest level for a generation, most twenty-somethings are likely to receive less than �20,000 a year in retirement.

Only smokers or purchasers of an impaired life annuity - which pays higher incomes to people with chronic medical conditions - would possibly receive more.

Click here to listen to Daniel Church, 27, talk about his pension worries

Your comments:

A pension is the least of my worries. I am 21 and have just graduated from University. Included in my BSc. I have an approximate debt of �12,000 in the form of a Government loan. This does not include the cost of accommodation across the 3 years which is approximately �8,000. Include other debt such as an overdraft and credit cards and the amount stacks up. Now mix into the pot that the job area that I wish to work in (IT) is flat due to heavy redundancies made in the last two years, flooding the market with IT professionals with vast field experience, you soon find that a pension is not top of the list. I think the government needs to have a serious review of the paths taken by youth today, debt is high, pension knowledge is low.
Papa, UK, Essex

The pensions crisis is a great example of companies and the government abrogating responsibility for employees/taxpayers. At first, when the new accounting rules came in, companies said that pensions would be the governments responsibility. The government said it was companies' responsibility. Then both agreed on the idea that it is individuals' responsibility. If you're a graduate earning less than 14K a year, how can you afford a comfy pension plan like the senior directors and politicians who perpetrated this? It's a scandal that would be called unlawful in most other countries. The government should force companies to take more social responsibility for their employees so that current generations of workers can enjoy the same benefits that older generations took for granted.
Paul, UK

I have a private pension and wanted to have the NHS Pension as well. I can't by legislation. But why not if I can afford to ? More restraint. Also, stop companies "creaming off" pension profits and make them keep these to use on the funds for "leaner" times. That would solve this sort of problem and at the very least, ease the cost to pensioners. I am sure the company directors' pensions are protected. The government should legislate against companies stopping 'final pension salaries'. They should be charged with 'breaking a contract' with their pensioners !
Marie Firth, UK

When I retire why must my pension fund be converted into an annuity. Why cannot I take this fund & invest it myself in a building society & use the interest & some of the capital as my pension. This way when I die at least my children will inherit my savings & not some Insurance company. I do not see why Insurance companies should be allowed to make even more profit from my retirement fund.
P.Gamlin, Wales

You reap what you sow.

The idea that the government should look after you in retirement is an outmoded idea and completely incompatible with a country that is currently experiencing longer life expectancy and declining fertility.

Those who argue that they should not foot the bill for their retirement are implicitly arguing that someone else should. I fail to see why somebody other than myself should be responsible for my own retirement income.

The State should be responsible only for providing a basic welfare safety net to prevent poverty, not to provide for a comfortable standard of living.

National Insurance at current levels struggle to pay even for safety net levels of care. Anything more will require a massive increase.

Furthermore, fully funded pensions (i.e. those funded out of savings) are better for the economy. They increase savings, which in turn increase investment, productivity and economic growth. By contrast, "unfunded" pensions, that are financed through taxation, worsen economic performance.
B, UK

I'm assuming there'll be nothing coming my way from the government when I turn 65. Of course there will always be those who didn't save a penny and the state will have to support them. And those who saved barely enough and they will be forced to buy an annuity so they can be assured of a steady income. But to encourage people like me the government has to say "Save what you can, here are the tax breaks, and you will only be forced to buy an annuity up to a certain value - the rest you can spend as and when you please". People won't save for themselves if they know at the end of the day they'll have to spend it on what the government tells them to.
Alex, UK

The government should not be expected to bail us out for not preparing for the future, but there are obstacles preventing us from planning. As a 24 year old, how am I supposed to think about the future when I am struggling to pay off university debts and a 5x my salary mortgage for a tiny roof over my head? Let's get some legislation to limit property prices, speculators and second home owners from dominating the market. Maybe then us young people will have some money left at the end of the month that we can put towards a pension scheme.
Gavin, Sussex, UK

Why, when I am very unlikely to get a state pension, do I have to pay through my taxes for the current pensioners? It is unreasonable to expect my generation to pay twice over for pensions and then on top of this pay for the national debt run up by today�s pensioners. So we pay their pensions, their debts and then they wonder why we are not saving enough for our old age.
Dave, England

I am 27 years old, and am feeling very confused and let-down about pensions and money matters in general! I have been doing what I have been told is the "right thing to do" and been contributing into my company's pension plan since I was 23 years old. But now I read that my hard-earned money going into my pension will not be worth anything when I retire. To compound the problem, as a potential first-time buyer currently priced out of the housing market, I now discover that those people already on the housing market are buying second-homes as an alternative and better investment to a pension - thereby, restricting the supply of affordable housing and further pushing up the prices of an over-inflated market. All-in-all, as a young professional seeking to contribute much in our economy and society, I feel unrewarded, unwanted and exploited. Tony Blair - please take note!
Chris, UK

I agree with Gavin. I'm 27, hefty student loans, graduate loans. Not a great salary, but I have a stakeholder pension scheme in place. How can I afford to buy a house as an investment for the future, knowing that my pension is likely to be worth a pittance in 35 years. Students now are even more worse off than me, as I was in the last year to get a university grant.
Robsta, UK

Rather than supporting the current lot of pensioners and not having anything left for us, how about having all of our contributions being earmarked specifically for us, starting NOW? That way we'd have at least something guaranteed. The government can pay for whatever shortfall is initially generated by ditching some of its vanity projects (Millennium Dome, anyone?)
AL, UK

I have a stakeholder pension - is it good? I don't know. Can I do better? - I don't know. What options do I have? - I don't know. The problem is that I simply do not have the time to trawl through forest of information to eek out best deal for me. I certainly don't want to be impoverished but finding the right pension is a logistical nightmare!
Jon, UK

I know I'm not investing enough into my pension scheme. I want to but the money just isn't there. Having jumped onto the property ladder a year ago, before I was priced out of the market, the cost of living has made it impossible to budget my small salary. Where are the higher paid jobs for graduates? All I know is that I have �20 to see me through Christmas and an up hill struggle to get my finances back on track. Unfortunately a pension ends up on the bottom of the list.
Sally Kettle, UK

I am currently 26 and I currently pay into a pension scheme whilst also paying national insurance contributions. I have heard conflicting arguments about Serps and as to whether it is a good idea to stay in it or opt out. If I continue to pay National Insurance, surely the amount I have contributed will be either paid back or transferred to my private pension? Am I just disillusioned and the better advice would be to stop the National Insurance contributions and concentrate on my own private Pension. I am currently 26.
John Stott, Scotland

The problem is very simple, at present those who have retired have their pensions funded by those who are working now, as populations change this is always going to be potentially unstable. Imagine if pensioners today were receiving in their pension the actual national insurance they had paid over their working years. Currently NI is just part of the tax melting pot. When this Government came in apparently with an agenda for change this is one area they could have forced through with such a large majority. Think the unthinkable was Frank Field's brief and he did, and where is he now? Five wasted years so far, with no radical action bar the foxhunting debacle. I am very cross.
Simon Boyd-Wallis, UK

When I graduated 3 years ago I had a combined debt of over 10 thousand pounds. Add on top of that the need to get a car (another loan) to get to work, rent (I can't afford a mortgage in the SE - the house prices are WAY too high), needing to furnish the place, and bills - How are we expected to be able to save a suitable sum into a pension if we can't even afford to pay off the debts that grew throughout university? I was under the impression that an education would be an investment - but it's turned out to be just another huge expense. I have a pension through work and I pay in what I can, but I can't pay in nearly enough because I'm still having to pay so many other things off. I'm not saying that having your own pension is a bad idea - but if we could graduate without SO much debt then contributing to a pension would be much less crippling.
Jane, UK

I have a solution for the government.

First, it should encourage everyone to pay off their debts. Second it should provide incentives for people to redeem their mortgages quickly. Third, NI contributions should be increased sharply (at progressive rates) to reflect the true cost of the ageing population i.e. growing future pensions liability. Fourth, contributions to private pension schemes should be allowed to be offset against NI contributions.

Following this strategy will mean that everyone, including young people, will realise that there is no getting away from this problem. It will also reduce the number of free-riders in the economy.
Ajay Mandalia, UK

It's sad that most young people these days don't even know what 10% of 100 is. I started my personal pension when I was 21 and fresh out of Uni. I started with a mere �10 a month because that's all I could afford. It might not have seemed like much back then and indeed seems like nothing now, now that I'm 27 years old. However if one considers the effect of compound interest year on year, it's crusual that one should start as early as possible to realise the maximum gains later on in life when your pension starts paying out. Every penny counts, no matter how little. Sit down do the maths all you youngens.
Kaustav Bhattacharya, UK

I gave up paying �200 per month into a pension when the government abolished the dividend tax credit for pension funds. This stealth taxation taxes people who are trying to fund pensions to the tune of about � 5 billion a year. Its hypocritical of the government to criticise people for not providing for themselves when they are discouraging people by taxing pensions in this way. Also policy on annuities need to be reviewed as these benefit insurance companies too much.
David Molyneux, England

Reading the comments about saving for a pension makes me feel depressed. Rising House Prices, likely no state pension, now is not a good time to be in your twenties. I am 26 with about 7,000 in Student loans, at least I am not as in Debt as the new students, trying to save to buy a flat. How am I supposed to put away 200 per month for pension, and save for flat, suppose the obvious answer is to be very tight, and not go out, but everyone tells you to enjoy yourself when your young.
Mark Kane, UK

Pension contributions should be made compulsory for everybody. When you are in your twenties and thirties there much better things to spend your money on, but as you get older pensions become important then it can be too late.
Mark, Suffolk, uk

You can't put an old head on young shoulders!
Ian, England

I am an independent financial adviser and I speak to people in their 20's and 30's every single day. The people I come across are utterly shocked when I show them just how much they need to save in order to provide for themselves in retirement. (Believe me, it is far in excess of the �50 - �100 per month suggested). However, all too often they tell me they can't afford to contribute anything at all, yet they think nothing of spending �200 - �300 plus per month on fags, booze, clothes clubbing etc. Of course, I'm not advocating a lifestyle to put a medieval monk to shame, but young people today need to realise that they have to take some responsibility for their futures, and the longer they leave this, the harder it will be.

Furthermore, anybody relying on property as their sole investment obviously does not remember the last property crash.
Anthony, London, UK

I believe that pension provision should be the responsibility of the individual. If a person starts drawing a pension at 65, that gives then about 45 years to provide for their own retirement. This approach would allow the government to cut taxes and red-tape. State pension will, and should, exist only at a very basic level.
Craig, 26, London, UK

I agree with Gavin. I'm 27, hefty student loans, graduate loans. Not a great salary, but I have a stakeholder pension scheme in place. How can I afford to buy a house as an investment for the future, knowing that my pension is likely to be worth a pittance in 35 years. Students now are even more worse off than me, as I was in the last year to get a university grant.
Robsta, Devon, UK

Save for a pension? How? I am 1) in debt from university and 2) saving for a deposit for a house and 3) getting married and want children, 4) want a social life, and 5) badly paid in insecure job. Come on, live in the real world will you. We are not going to be able to start saving until at least 35.
sue, UK

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