NB: THIS TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A TRANSCRIPTION UNIT RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT: BECAUSE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF MIS-HEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY, IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE BBC CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS ACCURACY. ....................................................... ................. PANORAMA AL-QAEDA STRIKES BACK RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION: BBC-1 DATE: 20:10:02 ....................................................... ................. [10:00:10] JANE CORBIN: This video was never intended for the world to see. It was made by terrorists linked to Al-Qaeda filming secretly, selecting targets to attack. We have subtitled their alarming commentary. [10:00:24] VIDEO VOICE: This is the type of boxes they use on the motorcycles. These are the same type of boxes which we intend to use. [10:00:35] CORBIN: The terrorists were looking for a target in the Far East. Last week they found one. Tonight we investigate the threat still posed by Al- Qaeda. AL QAEDA FIGHTS BACK [10:00:57] Bali, until last weekend - a place of dreams, and a favourite haunt of holiday programmes. Kuta caters for all tastes, there's trendy, chill out, gay and Australian.... [10:01:20] CORBIN: The party was always in full swing at the Sari Club and the bars along Kuta Beach, and then a week ago the party ended! [10:01:33] ANDY DOUGLAS: I just felt a big flash of white light and felt myself being thrown onto the ground kind of in slow motion. The next thing I knew it was totally dark, and I was kind of on the ground thinking oh there's been a bomb, there's been a bomb. [10:01:48] MAN2: And a woman came flying through the air and hit me and knocked me over, and I guess that could be what saved me because she would have copped the full brunt of it and I copped it on my hands and my face. [10:02:04] MAN3: After the bomb the whole building basically imploded and I was trapped under the roof, and there was only one way that we could get out, and there was a young girl trapped in front of me and she wasn't strong enough to be able to get the rubble off her. And it took a lot of time because there was not a lot of room to work in. I managed to get her out and then we just followed the voices, a lot of screaming victims. But if you took a wrong turn, which I did, I walked straight into the fire and that's how I got 30% of my bodily burns. [10:02:57] MAN4: We were going to go in here tonight, that's the Sari Club, we were there last night. There's going to be some dead, dead people. [10:03:14] MAN2: The boys in a chair, lifted me up and ran me down the street, and then we found a yute and they threw me in the back of that. And there was another guy in there and a girl, and I was talking to the other guy, and as I was talking to him he past away. [10:03:33] DOUGLAS: That place was just unbelievable, absolute carnage. There was about 80 to 100 people in there. There's dead bodies on the floor, people dying on the floor, there was blood everywhere all over the floor. Some people were on beds. There was maybe two or three doctors, maybe half a dozen nurses, people screaming out in agony, people with burns all over them. [10:04:05] CORBIN: The scale of the disaster was revealed next morning. [10:04:09] GIRL: They do have photos of people that are in the morgue and there's a room upstairs if you go into and... where you can go and do a formal I.D. [10:04:19] CORBIN: We now know that 187 people died when Bali was bombed, 32 of them are thought to be British, most were Australian. After September 11th the survivors knew instinctively what lay behind it. [10:04:38] MAN3: In my opinion, what it means by bombing Bali, the biggest amount of tourists that come to Bali are from Australia, from America, Germany and France, and I think it's just another plot, another ploy to say 'we'll get you anywhere you are'. [10:05:01] CORBIN: The nightclub and a whole street in Kuta was blasted by the fireball created by the bombing. Amongst the first foreign officials to visit Indonesia was Australia's Foreign Minister. [10:06:14] ALEXANDER DOWNER Foreign Minister, Australia I looked at the Sari Club and I thought to myself how could anyone have survived in that place and it's a remarkable thing that as many people survived as they did. We have all of us, from the Prime Minister down, dwelt very much on whether there was anything else that we could have done. Had a piece of intelligence just been discarded and not properly examined? AUSTRALIA [10:05:43] CORBIN: Today Australians remember their dead. Twelve months after the twin towers attack on America, they feel this atrocity was meant to hurt them. What few Australians realised was that nearly a year ago Bin Laden had issued a death threat directly to them. Australia was to be punished for helping to quell separatist violence on the Indonesian island of East Timor, thwarting the ambition of some Muslims who wanted a united Islamic nation. [10:06:34] VOICE OF BIN LADEN: [from video tape] The crusader Australian forces were on Indonesian shores and they landed on East Timor, which is part of the Islamic world. [10:06:47] CORBIN: It's now believed this may have been a coded signal to local extremists to start preparing an attack in retaliation for Australia's actions in East Timor. And only two weeks ago a voice which Al-Qaeda claimed was Bin Laden's was broadcast on Al-Jazira television - the words were ominous. [10:07:08] VOICE OF BIN LADEN: The youth of Islam are preparing things which will fill your heart with fear. [10:07:24] JANE CORBIN There is a growing certainty that Bin Laden has opened a second front in his battle against the West, and the Bali bombing, it is feared, is just the opening salvo. It was never meant to be like this. A year ago America and its allies launched a war on terror, most of Bin Laden's forces were driven from Afghanistan. But US troops failed to kill or capture Al-Qaeda's leader. Al-Qaeda was wounded but not destroyed, and once again proved capable of adapting to it's changed and difficult circumstances. In a new strategy Bin Laden sent hundreds of his trained militants back to their own countries to plot new terror attacks. Many returned to South East Asia, a vulnerable arch of countries with a history of ethnic and religious tension and large Muslim populations. The Philippines, Malaysia and now Indonesia have all been affected by a new wave of terror, and Al-Qaeda's sponsorship of these attacks is not in any doubt. Last year, in the rubble of a safe house belonging to Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan a remarkable video was discovered. It revealed an earlier plan for a terror campaign in another South East Asian country. SINGAPORE [10:08:49] CORBIN: The prosperous city state of Singapore is an unlikely breeding ground for terror. People here pride themselves on their western lifestyle. But in October last year, with the world steel reeling from the twin towers attacks, two Singaporeans took a drive with their video camera, but it was to be no sightseeing trip. Terrorist video [10:09:15] CORBIN: This is a terrorist video. A squad sponsored by Al-Qaeda is selecting targets to attack. The terrorists recorded a running commentary, which we've subtitled, of the targets they intended to hit, including a shuttle but for US servicemen. [10:09:29] VIDEO VOICE: The entrance of the building, with many vehicles parked there. They will not be suspicious to have a motorcycle or a bicycle there. This is the type of boxes they use on the motorcycles. These are the same type of boxes which we intend to use. [10:09:55] CORBIN: The men were part of a network of Muslim militants. Their purpose - to use terror to destabilise the region and turn it into an Islamic stronghold. [10:10:06] WONG KAN SENG Home Minister, Singapore They were actually working very closely with their leaders in Malaysia as well as their leaders in Indonesia to create Islamic region comprising Malaysia, Indonesia, Mindoro now which is the southern part of the Philippines, and Singapore, to turn this whole region into an Islamic region. Terrorist video [10:10:28] CORBIN: The squad moved on to Embassy Row with it's elegant colonial buildings, housing the diplomatic representatives of thousands of expatriates, westerners who live in Singapore. The terrorists were planning to explode seven massive truck bombs in the city. [10:10:45] PAUL MADDEN UK Deputy High Commissioner Singapore We have the American Embassy here. We're on one side of it at the British High Commission and the Australian High Commission is on the other, so effectively targeting one of us is targeting all of us. [10:10:56] CORBIN: The video however would prove the undoing of the plot. The terror cell sent it to Afghanistan to seek approval from a higher authority, Osama bin Laden. It was found in Kabul in the bombed out house of Al- Qaeda's military commander. When the Singapore authorities saw the tape and raided the cell, they found more evidence back home. [10:11:18] WONG KAN SENG: The video copy was found in the rubble of one of the key lieutenants of Osama bin Laden of Al-Qaeda, and we found the original of that in the home of one of the detainees. [10:11:32] CORBIN: So to you, there's no doubt that there are links to Al-Qaeda? [10:11:36] WONG KAN SENG: Yes, we think there is a direct link. Jemaah Islamiah propaganda video [10:11:40] CORBIN: The plotters were part of an Islamic movement called Jemaah Islamiah based in Indonesia but with groups in other South East Asian countries. It sent militants to train in Al-Qaeda's Afghan camps. Now they are passing their expertise on to other supporters in the region. [10:12:02] MADDEN: The Singaporean authorities were very perplexed that the terrorist group J.I. were able to make a toehold in Singapore. It's a country which has put a lot of effort into establishing good relations between the various ethnic and religious groups which make up this very multicultural society. [10:12:20] CORBIN: Chillingly the terror squad ended their video reconnaissance trip at the US naval facility in Singapore. The cell was also planning attacks on American warships. They gained access to this sensitive site through one of their members, a well paid local shipping official. [10:12:38] WONG KAN SENG Home Minister, Singapore We were certainly shocked and surprised that this happened because these Singaporean Jemaah Islamiah members they are not downtrodden, they are not marginalised people; they are people with jobs, with a good education, some of them have a polytechnic diploma several of them were technicians and they earn good incomes and they have homes which they own, and their family. [10:13:09] CORBIN: Thirty-four people involved in the terror plot have now been arrested in both Singapore and Malaysia where they were trying to buy 17 tons of chemicals for the bombs. But the organiser of the plot, an Indonesian known as Hambali, got away. He isn't just one of the leaders of Jemaah Islamiah, he is also a member of Al-Qaeda's inner council. The same terror group that made the video in Singapore are thought to be involved in the Bali bombing in Indonesia. [10:13:44] IAN STAFFORD There was a lump of shrapnel went in my throat. They said if it had been an eighth of an inch to one side I was dead, it would have hit my windpipe. They pulled a big lump of shrapnel out of my chest here, pulled another lump of shrapnel out my arm here. I had a big hole right here in my arm where something had went in but hadn't stopped in but just took my arm away. I had a massive like mangled mess here with two broken fingers. [10:14:13] CORBIN: Ian Stafford's best friend, Ian Findlay, was with him in the Sari Club that night. But after the blast Mr Stafford couldn't find him. [10:14:22] STAFFORD: You were basically in the morgue which would be no bigger than this room and had maybe about half a dozen what you would expect in a morgue like fridge... refrigerated cubicles. Like.. pulled one out, she said: That's your friend?" I said: "Not my friend." Then she pulled the next one out, not that one. Pulls the next one out, there was no body in that one. Pulls the next one out, I says no. Next one, no. Next one, no. The somebody says: "Mr Stafford, your friend in the van." So went to the back of this van and it's like a refrigerated van, opened the door and there was three bodies that I could see in the far back.. like at the back of the van lying side by side. And I saw my friend's sandals, and I thought hold on a minute. I then had to ring the family and tell them. That was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. I couldn't believe it. I just broke down on the phone. Like.. I mean I was no help to his family at all. It was just like.. it was hard you know. It was the real hardest thing I've done in my life. [10:15:40] CORBIN: Ian Stafford still cannot understand how terrorists could justify such a bloody attack on foreign tourists in a nightclub. [10:15:53] STAFFORD: I feel real anger, real.. I just feel really so bad about.. I mean to think that they can just target innocent people. I mean everybody.. I never done nothing wrong to anybody. We never done nothing wrong to them. If they want to target some people, target people who are doing anything to them, not innocent people. [10:16:19] CORBIN: A religious school near Jakarta, the Indonesian capital, has become the focus of attention following the Bali bombing. The principal of the school, cleric Abu Bakar Ba'Asyir, has been called the Bin Laden of the Far East. It's widely believed that Abu Bakar is the leader of Jemaah Islamiah. He denies it but he is vehemently anti-Semitic and anti-American and even blames the United States for the Bali bombing. [10:16:53] ABU BAKAR BA'ASYIR Alleged leader, Jemaah Islamiah I believe that it was the work of a foreign intelligence organisation. I suspect that it was American. [10:17:04] CORBIN: Abu Bakar continues to profess his innocence though he and his school featured heavily in the coverage of who might be behind the bombing. Governments in the region say there's compelling evidence of Abu Bakar's role in Jemaah Islamiah, the terrorist network which plotted the Singapore attacks. [10:17:25] WONG KAN SENG Home Minister, Singapore From the information give to us by those who were detained in Singapore, they said that Abu Bakar Ba'Asyir is the emir, the emir means the chief of the group, and some of them even took the bayat, which is the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakar Ba'Asyir. [10:17:43] CORBIN: So again no doubt that this man is very centrally involved, although of course he professes his innocence. [10:17:49] WONG KAN SENG: Well he has been protesting his innocence but the information we have shows that he was thoroughly involved in Jemaah Islamiah. [10:17:58] ABU BAKAR BA'ASYIR: I don't support the bombing, I condemn it. I have signed a petition against it. I don't know about Jemaah Islamiah. I don't know what Al-Qaeda is, whether it's Osama bin Laden or the Taliban, so I don't know that. [10:18:19] CORBIN: In recent weeks, as the allegations of his links with terror mounted, Abu Bakar tried to sue an American magazine. Several governments have been pressurising the Indonesian authorities to arrest the cleric. [10:18:34] ALEXANDER DOWNER Foreign Minister, Australia We've been concerned that he has had knowledge of previous terrorist acts within Indonesia, and there have been terrorist acts by Jemaah Islamiah in our judgement over quite some years in Indonesia. The extent to which he has planned those or been party to them is of course a hard question to answer. We don't have any black and white answer to that. But that he has knowledge of them and that he has been the.. well the spiritual inspiration of Jemaah Islamiah, that is something we have discussed with the Indonesians. [10:19:13] CORBIN: Experts from Australia, America and Britain are helping the Indonesians investigate the Bali bombings. There has never been a terror attack on such a scale in this country before. The Indonesian police now say that three bombs were placed here in a sequence designed to cause maximum casualties. The third and biggest bomb was in a mini van outside the Sari Club. It detonated as panicked people ran from the nightclub. [10:19:42] General MADE MANGKU PASTIKA Chief Investigator, Bali Up to now we understand that at least two bombs were set up but it's still in the discussion about the other.. one other bomb which they put to block the road and so the victims cannot go out from there. They want to kill as many as possible people. [10:20:03] CORBIN: We've pieced together an account of how the Bali bombing was planned and executed, and the important clues that lead to Al-Qaeda. The plot was coordinated from the neighbouring island of Java. A series of phone calls was made to an Al-Qaeda operative in the Middle East from a safe house in Surakarta, a known centre for Muslim extremists. Three Al- Qaeda operatives, two Yemenis and a Malaysian, arrived at the Indonesian port of Semarang two days before the bombing. The Malaysian authorities believe that one of them was a former university lecturer, Azahari Hussein, a man trained in explosives in Afghanistan. In Bali the foreigners then linked up with six Indonesians. It's believed that Hambali, the leading figure in both Jemaah Islamiah and Al-Qaeda, was key to the plot. So far all the evidence in the Bali bombing points to the involvement of Jemaah Islamiah with resources and expert coordination from Al-Qaeda. [10:21:17] Do you think though there's a danger that we see Al-Qaeda in everything now? [10:21:21] ALEXANDER DOWNER Foreign Minister, Australia Well we say what we say. We say that it is likely but we're not certain. Why is it likely? Because we have information about various people movements in and out of Indonesia in the period leading up to October 12th. We, of course, are able to look now at how the bombs were detonated, what sort of explosives were used, the nature of the operation, the type of targets that were chosen. These things give you some indication but they're not hard and fast proof. KENYA [10:22:01] CORBIN: There are uncanny parallels between the Bali bombing and attacks by Al-Qaeda on two US embassies in East Africa four years ago. Expert bomb makers were sent to assemble truck bombs. The operation was coordinated by Al-Qaeda members who lived locally as sleepers. The first warnings that attacks were being planned in South East Asia came four months ago. Today we went to try and track down the source of those warnings. Al-Qaeda's man in Indonesia had been living in this village. Just like his counterparts in East Africa he'd married a local girl and blended into a small Islamic community. We met his wife with their daughters. She'd just been released after questioning by the police. She revealed she knew nothing about her husband's background. [10:22:56] WIFE: I met him at 9 in the morning and we were married early the same evening. All I know is that he does not come from abroad. [10:23:04] CORBIN: But her husband was living a lie. Omar Al-Farouk is Kuwaiti and he's now under arrest. AFGHANISTAN [10:23:18] CORBIN: Farouk has been held by the Americans since June when he was flown to Bagram airbase in Afghanistan. For three months he refused to talk, but in September he told them that Abu Bakar Ba'Asyir was the leader of Jemaah Islamiah. Farouk claimed Abu Bakar had authorised him to use the group's resources to conduct terror attacks with Al-Qaeda. Aware of this intelligence, Australia joined the US and Singapore in again demanding action from the Indonesian government just a week before the Bali bombing. [10:23:53] ALEXANDER DOWNER Foreign Minister, Australia We have certainly talked to the Indonesians about what we see as these threats, and their response has been well, you know.. Indonesia is a democracy and people are able to express whatever views they like, and that unless people actually have broken the law there wasn't very much they can do. [10:24:16] Dr HASSAN WIRAJUDA Foreign Minister, Indonesia We receive a general kind of warnings from United States but that not quite specific whether a bomb is to explode in one place or another. [10:24:30] CORBIN: But you were warned there was terror, there was a problem and you had these groups within your country, and yet you made no arrests. [10:24:38] WIRAJUDA: No, we didn't have.. we didn't receive any specific information whether incidents or bombs would be exploded in any parts of Indonesia. But this general kind of information on the need to be more alert - yes. [10:24:56] CORBIN: Farouk did not reveal that Bali was a target, but he was clear that large scale attacks against western targets were being planned in Indonesia. [10:25:05] Indonesia was given several warnings by Singapore, by yourselves, by the Americans, and yet nothing was done. Looking back on it now it seems a tragedy. [10:25:14] WONG KAN SENG Home Minister, Singapore Well it's the unfortunate part of it. It just required a tragedy like that, which shouldn't have happened, to be the wake up call for some of the people. [10:25:23] CORBIN: So you acknowledge that there's the need to do more, and more quickly than you have in the past. [10:25:29] WIRAJUDA: Certainly. [10:25:32] CORBIN: It's only today, a week after the bombings, that Abu Bakar Ba'Asyir has been officially detained. He's in hospital with heart problems, still insisting he has no connection to terrorism. Throughout South East Asia several militant Islamic movements have developed, nurtured by poverty and ethnic strife. Osama Bin Laden has seized the opportunity to weave them into his own agenda to hit America and the West. The Philippines has long had a problem with violent extremists. PHILIPPINES [10:26:16] CORBIN: For ten years now the army has been battling an Islamic terror group called Abu-Sayaf. The group was set up by an old comrade of Bin Laden's and further developed by a close relative of the Al-Qaeda. Abu Sayaf's training camps have been targeted by a new President with a hard line approach. [10:26:38] GLORIA MACAPAGAL ARROYO President, Philippines We don't intend to make it easy for them. We are considering our long experience with terrorism in some parts of our country. We have learnt many lessons and we are more prepared than many other nations in dealing with them, in hardening our targets and also in being aggressive in flushing them out. [10:27:03] CORBIN: The government has allowed US special forces to train the Philippine army in tackling militant groups. It's all part of the war against terror declared a year ago. It's been a controversial decision in the Philippines where despite the Christian majority there are sizable Islamic communities. [10:27:22] ARROYO: I don't regret it all. I believe that this training has helped us to be as prepared or even better prepared than many countries in aggressively fighting terrorism. [10:27:37] CORBIN: Do you not fear that by being seen to be so close to America and accepting their help, you will enflame the hatred of Islamic extremists in your area and make things more difficult? [10:27:47] ARROYO: We have seen that they strike at different targets regardless of whether they are seen as friendly to this country or that country. So it's not a matter of whether you're friendly to one country or another, it's what is very important that we must be prepared to be aggressive against terrorism, and bring the war to them rather than letting them.. lying down or sitting back and letting them bring their war to us. [10:28:18] CORBIN: the Philippines authorities know that Al-Qaeda has already used their country to hatch a plot to bomb the twin towers and US airliners in the mid 90s. But they are confident the Philippines can now resist the threat of terror. [10:28:35] ARROYO: The terror group in our island I believe are on their death throws. Their force has been greatly diminished. [10:28:45] CORBIN: But only hours after our interview with the President terrorists struck again. They bombed a bus on the very outskirts of the capital, Manila. Three died in this attack. It's just the latest I a string of recent bombings. An American serviceman and three Filipinos were killed two weeks ago. Abu Sayaf, Al-Qaeda's protégé, is the prime suspect. [10:29:10] Is aggression the answer because people believe that Bin Laden gets his support because so many people in the Muslim world feel alienated. Is aggression the answer? Is a war against terror the way to go about it? Shouldn't we be solving the long term problem? [10:29:26] GLORIA MACAPAGAL ARROYO President, Philippines Of course we should. I have always been saying that the war against terrorism is the twin of the war against poverty. Not only must we be aggressive by the use of what force we can muster, but we must also address the breeding grounds of terrorism. [10:29:46] CORBIN: The wave of attacks in South East Asia is just one result of the exodus of Al-Qaeda fighters from Afghanistan. When Panorama was there earlier this year, a US official told me he was afraid they had not destroyed Al-Qaeda but scattered them across the globe. And in the past 12 months the terrorists have indeed dug into many places where local people sympathise with their ant-western aims. They've encouraged those groups to see their own religious or political grievances as part of a wider war against the West. In the year since 9/11 Al-Qaeda has become that most dangerous and unpredictable of creatures. A world-wide movement. Last December on a flight from Paris, Richard Reed tried to detonate a bomb concealed in his shoes. He later admitted belonging to Al-Qaeda but he's refused to disclose information about the terror network in Europe. In March in Pakistan a church in the diplomatic enclave was the target for a suicide bomber. Five people died. [10:31:02] WOMAN: As we sat outside, there was a young woman dying just a few feet from us. It was gruesome. [10:31:09] CORBIN: Just two months later in Pakistan a suicide bomber struck again, 11 Frenchman and 3 Pakistanis died, and in an attack on the US consulate 12 passers by were killed. In Tunisia a suicide bomber detonated a massive truck bomb outside a synagogue. Fourteen German tourists and three Tunisians died. [10:31:39] WOMAN: The entrance was burning. I had the feeling we were being roasted in there. [10:31:43] CORBIN: And this month terrorists struck again off the coast of Yemen. An explosive laden boat struck a French oil tanker. One member of the crew died. A couple of days later in Kuwait Al-Qaeda gunmen attacked US troops. A marine was killed. In a statement apparently signed by Osama bin Laden he hailed the Yemen and Kuwait attacks as heroic and threatened yet more strikes. AUSTRALIA [10:32:17] CORBIN: When Australian casualties of the Bali bomb arrived in Perth it was clear it was the citizens of this nation who had borne the brunt of this terror attack. The survivors came home to a heroes' welcome, amongst them what was left of a football team from Perth. Seven of their number didn't make it. There's anger against the Australian Government. Was there intelligence which should have led them to advise tourists to leave Bali before the bomb. [10:33:02] ALEXANDER DOWNER Foreign Minister, Australia There were never any warnings about Bali, as I know the British Government has been saying recently, and obviously we share information with the British Government as well as the Americans, but neither the Americans nor the British and nor us had any specific warnings in relation to Bali. But we had more generic warnings about Indonesia and Bali is part of Indonesia. [10:33:31] CORBIN: A group of Surfers from Perth survived their night out in the Sari Club. They've known each other since nursery school and their experience has drawn them even closer together. Some of the surfers were trapped inside the nightclub. [10:33:55] YOUTH: And I just went over and I found him lying on top of the two girls and I just picked him up and the two girls, I just said just grab on and we've got to get out of here. I just... just had to walk out and it was dark and you could only see the ground in front of you, and there was people just lying everywhere just screaming for help, and I remember just saying I'm sorry, I can't do anything. [10:34:33] CORBIN: But the others turned round and went back into the inferno. [10:34:38] 2nd YOUTH: I was just looking on the floor for white hair because Alan's got bleached blond hair. Then I found him, like all I saw was like a person, and then underneath that person there was like a browny white shirt.. a kid with blond hair. I said I've found him, I've found him, we've just got to get him out, get him out. [10:34:55] 3rd YOUTH: We looked at him and it looked like he had a big cut in the back of his neck, like a big hole. He looked dead. I thought he was dead. We ended up finding his pulse. It was real weak but we found it. [10:35:08] 2nd YOUTH: We started pulling him up and there was people like around him, like on top of him, grabbing at us, telling us to help them. We're saying sorry, we can't help. We've just got to get our mates out. [10:35:18] 3rd YOUTH: Me and Danny grabbed his shoulders and had to try and pull him up and.. I don't know.. for some reason he was real slippery. It was really hard to pick him up. [10:35:28] CORBIN: These men don't see what they did for each other that night as heroism. [10:35:33] 1st YOUTH: How can you call anyone a hero when you just.. I don't know.. any of these boys would have done the same for anybody so.. it's just.. you'd expect it. [10:35:52] CORBIN: One of the surfers still can't believe his friends saved his life. [10:35:57] 4th YOUTH (VICTIM): I was just really.. I just couldn't believe it, and hearing this guy pulled me out, I was just.. I was really.. like he said, just good mates and you do that sort of thing for each other and it's.. oh.. just can't believe it. [10:36:20] CORBIN: Bali had become Australia's 9/11 and it's traumatised the nation. [10:36:25] DOWNER: I think Australia is still in a state of shock because this peaceful, beautiful country has suddenly seen its own people massacred in this way by international terrorism, something that in the past seemed so far away and remote to us. It's brought it all home. I think that will translate, as time goes on, into a sense of anger and a demand that we redouble our efforts to contribute to the war on terrorism. [10:36:55] CORBIN: The whole of South East Asia is apprehensive. Their economy is already threatened following the Bali bombing, and they fear they'll be abandoned by the west, fearful of their citizens' security. [10:37:12] DOWNER: The war on terrorism is, to use an Australian expression, like wrestling with smoke. It's not a question of just sending battalions from your army, out of the trenches and into battle. You have to use intelligence very effectively. You have to have very strong domestic laws. All countries have to, and you have to have outstanding international cooperation to be able to defeat it. SINGAPORE [10:37:41] CORBIN: Expatriates across South East Asia are frightened. The rugby pitch in Singapore's sporting club is empty. The team lost 8 of their 17 players. The touring side that went to Bali. Four are confirmed dead, four are still missing, and some are still in hosp. [10:38:05] GRAEME 'COACH' BURNETT Some have taken it incredibly hard, some have gone into denial. We've got the guys that came back from Bali, I mean here they are in the morgue handling body parts, looking at guys they've just played rugby with, they were on the field with, and now they're looking at a body bag. [10:38:29] ANDY DOUGLAS The real tragedy will come is when we're down at the club training or in the bar afterwards, and you're looking round and those lads just aren't there anymore. I think that's when it'll really hit home. This attack has really brought it home to everybody that anybody can be attacked at any place. [10:38:53] IAN STAFFORD It's definitely made me think like where the heck can you go from here, like do you still go on holiday, or are you always going to look round the corner and think hold on a minute here, what happens if I go into this place what's full of people, might this be targeted, but I suppose if you think like that and then say right, I'm not going to do all these things, what's the point in living? [10:39:29] CORBIN: Bali was a place where young people from all over the world congregated. The Sari Club is being cleansed of the evil that happened here. But the travellers' tales of terror have spread across a fearful world. _________ www.bbc.co.uk/panorama Next week on Panorama the programme originally billed for tonight - can she be Queen Camilla? We consider the dangers to the Monarchy and the constitutional implications Of Prince Charles if Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles ever wish to marry. CREDITS Reporter Jane Corbin Film Camera Alex Hansen Darren Conway Sound Recordist Tim Day VT Editor Boyd Nagle Art Director Bruce Hill Lighting Rob Pye Steve Smith Production Assistant Susan Marimo Production Co-ordinator Rosa Rudnicka Web Producer Adam Flinter Film Research Kate Redman Research Kathlyn Posner Graphic Design Julie Tritton Key Yip Lam Production Manager Helen Cooper Unit Manager Emanuele Pasquale Production Team Andy Bell Fiona Blair Richard Grange Shabnam Grewal Sally Johnston Shelly Jofre Sarah Mole Ian O'Reilly Marie Phillips Manisha Vadhia Film Editors Bob Hayward Joe Zak Roderick Longhurst Producers Thea Guest Mike Rudin Deputy Editors Andrew Bell Sam Collyns Editor Mike Robinson