Correspondent: Suing the Pope (Update) Tx Date: 29th January 2003 This script was made from audio tape – any inaccuracies are due to voices being unclear or inaudible. It was slightly amended in February 2010 in order to protect the identity of one of the contributors. 00.00.00 Correspondent Theme Music 00.00.10 Waves crashing 00.00.28 Colm O’Gorman I hate this. Right now, driving along in this car, I feel awful and I don’t want to be here. 00.00.39 Waves crashing/music 00.00.50 Colm O’Gorman I really, really resent having to do this but I do feel like I have to because it hasn’t been dealt with and there are people who are still suffering because of this. 00.01.08 Sarah Macdonald Early last year Colm O’Gorman took a journey into his past to make a film about the Catholic Church with Correspondent. It was first shown on BBC2 in March. 00.01.20 Sarah Macdonald This is Colm’s story. 00.01.23 Waves 00.01.27 Sarah Macdonald It’s also the story of the fundamental repercussions the film’s broadcast has had on the Catholic Church. 00.01.33 Waves 00.01.39 Title Page Suing the Pope 00.01.50 Sarah Macdonald Colm O’Gorman is a thirty-seven year old Irishman living in London. 00.01.55 Sarah Macdonald He’s returning to his birthplace, County Wexford, on the south east coast of Ireland. 00.02.04 Sarah Macdonald This Catholic priest, Father Sean Fortune, sexually abused Colm when he was fourteen, assaulting and raping him for two and half years. 00.02.15 Waves crashing 00.02.23 Sarah Macdonald Colm had met Father Fortune just once when the priest came to his house and asked to take the young boy away for the weekend. 00.02.31 Sarah Macdonald Such was the power of the Catholic Church in Ireland; no one questioned this unknown priest’s motivations. 00.02.39 Aston COLM O’GORMAN He would pick me up and be the priest in front of my mother and my family. Five minutes later in the car he’d have me perform oral sex on him. And then, five minutes after that ended, stop off and again be the priest and walk into somebody’s house with me in tow behind. 00.03.03 Sarah Macdonald In 1981 Poulfur, Fethard-on-Sea, became Father Sean Fortune’s first curacy. 00.03.11 Sarah Macdonald A rural fishing community of around two hundred families; it’s conservative and predominantly Catholic. 00.03.22 Sarah Macdonald The parish priest is all-powerful in this country where the Church and the state are closely intertwined. 00.03.29 Sarah Macdonald But Father Fortune began to dominate every aspect of this community. 00.03.35 Sarah Macdonald He stripped the elderly of their savings, cursed the unborn babies of parents who defied him. And preached from the altar against those who would not cede to his demands. 00.03.48 Gemma Hearne His aim was certainly money and power. He was obsessed with money and power. 00.03.57 Sarah Macdonald Gemma Hearne has lived in Fethard for thirty years. She watched Fortune’s every move. 00.04.05 Aston GEMMA HEARNE He became very, very much involved in the youth club. He formed his own youth club. 00.04.11 Music 00.04.13 Gemma Hearne He took them on retreats, allegedly retreats and one of them being to Loftus Hall where I am told that it was horrific. That it was a mixed retreat and that they there had pillow fights and all sorts of orgies and he showed very, very explicit videos. 00.04.35 Music 00.04.41 Sarah Macdonald In Poulfur, as their sons became more withdrawn, parents turned to the Bishop for help. 00.04.46 Music 00.04.48 Sarah Macdonald He did nothing. 00.04.49 Music 00.04.52 Sarah Macdonald Desperately, they wrote of their fears to the Pope’s Ambassador to Ireland, the Papal Nuncio. 00.04.57 Music 00.05.02 Colm O’Gorman The one thing that I always wanted was for somebody to take this back, for somebody to take responsibility, for somebody to say; actually, we should have done something here, we didn’t. 00.05.15 Sarah Macdonald The Church knew of Sean Fortune’s sexual predilection. He was exposed two years before his ordination when he was a scout leader in Wexford. 00.05.27 Aston PAT JACKMAN We went away on camp together with the scouts and we were in a tent one day and Sean started playing with one of the boys and when I say playing I don’t mean football, he was interfering with him sexually in front of us. There was about, say there was about six kids in the tent ranging from about ten to twelve. 00.05.55 Sarah Macdonald Allegations of indecency reached the Catholic Boy Scouts of Ireland national headquarters. 00.06.01 Sarah Macdonald The CBSI has told Correspondent that after informing the Church hierarchy, Father Fortune was asked to remove himself from the association forever. 00.06.14 Sarah Macdonald But at exactly the same time, Fortune was ordained and sent to Belfast to work with children. He also rejoined the Scouts. 00.06.26 Aston DAMIEN MacALEENAN He asked to play a game and the game was patting each other in the groin area. So I was about thirteen, fourteen, didn’t know what I was at, so I agreed and thought it was a game. And then all of a sudden, like after a couple of minutes he started groping, you know literally rubbing me up and that went on for another couple of minutes until I turned and I said stop. So as I stood up he more or less tried to force me back to the ground. 00.06.57 Sarah Macdonald Stories spread about Father Fortune’s interest in young boys. 00.07.00 Music 00.07.03 Sarah Macdonald He was pulled out of Belfast and given his own church and curacy; Saint Aiden’s in Poulfur, Fethard-on-Sea. 00.07.13 Colm O’Gorman The only sense that I can make of that is that a bunch of men who had powerful privileged positions were much more interested in protecting their power, their position and their institution than they were in any way in protecting the people that they were due to minister to. There’s an absolute disrespect and disregard for people and it makes me sick. 00.07.35 Music 00.07.38 Sarah Macdonald Such abuse has become an international scandal. 00.07.43 Aston Fr TOM DOYLE Washington Vatican Embassy, 1981-86 It almost always happens to children or young adults, young adolescents who are very close to the Church. They are raised in a, in a church environment, they implicitly trust the Church and the hierarchical members, the bishop, the priest. When they are sexually abused by a priest, it’s a profound betrayal of trust. 00.08.08 Sarah Macdonald Father Tom Doyle is an American Catholic priest. He was a rising star at the Vatican Embassy in Washington in the eighties when the first case of clerical abuse broke in the United States. 00.08.21 Father Tom saying mass 00.08.23 Sarah Macdonald As a canon law expert he watched as the Church moved to protect the priest and turn on the victims. He became an outspoken critic of the Church’s response to child abuse and as a result was fired from his job. 00.08.40 Sarah Macdonald He’s now an army chaplain in Germany. 00.08.43 Fr Tom Doyle There’s been very aggressive action taken by the institution against victims and their families when they have initiated lawsuits. They’ve been intimidated, they’ve been, they’ve been, they’ve been put into a very fearful stance to try to coerce them into, into not going public. 00.09.07 Sarah Macdonald Pat Jackman was eleven when he witnessed Father Fortune abusing boy scouts. As a fifteen year old student he was aware of the rumours surrounding not just Fortune but other priests as well. 00.09.20 Sarah Macdonald Fortune ingratiated himself into Pat’s family, a ploy he used with many of his victims. He became especially good friends with Pat’s mother. 00.09.30 Pat Jackman When he arrived at the house and my mum and dad wasn’t there either myself or my brother were potentially in trouble. I said something to my aunt and uncle, if this guy makes any sort of suggestion that we go away with him for a day or a night or anything just say no, I can’t tell you why, just, just say no. 00.09.52 Pat Jackman So, as it turned out as I was walking out, as he was walking out the door it’s exactly what he said. He turned to my aunt and uncle and he said, oh by the way, I’ve got this new, I’ve got this new organ that I want to show, unfortunate choice of words, but I’ve got this new organ that I want to show Pat because he knew I was into music, do you mind if he comes out and spends the weekend out in Poulfur. 00.10.12 Pat Jackman And, and God love my aunt and uncle and my aunt still feels bad about it to this day and she said, no, yeah, sure, sure Father. I mean you don’t, I mean you don’t imagine that a priest is going to do anything to a kid, you know. 00.10.27 Pat Jackman As I walked out the door my brother was standing in the hallway and the look of shock on his face. He knew and I knew and we were kind of looking at each other and Martin was like, didn’t say anything but it was like; God help you Pat, I don’t know what to do. And I was like, you know, just get me out of this, you know. Walked out the door anyway, drove off into the sunset. 00.10.47 Singing 00.11.04 Pat Jackman There wasn’t a phone in the place. If I ran out screaming in the middle of the night I didn’t even know where the nearest house was. I didn’t know if I went and knocked the door whether they’d wake up, I didn’t know if they did wake up whether they’d believe me or not. 00.11.14 Singing 00.11.15 Pat Jackman And the sense of being trapped and you know, and caged. It was, you know, bloody horrible, absolutely bloody horrible. 00.11.21 Singing 00.11.28 Pat Jackman It was eleven hours of, of a constant torture, which ended up in a sexual act of sorts. 00.11.43 Sarah Macdonald And then you went home; he took you home. 00.11.46 Pat Jackman Eventually, yeah, yeah. He, after dragging me round the parish. And I still say to this day, I mean those parishioners were looking at me, like, like you know, another little boy, you know, as if I was kind of encouraging him, you know, in a sort of way. Having to face them and having to be normal, you know. And he eventually said he’d, he’d bring me home. 00.12.18 Pat Jackman Ah you know Pat, you know, yourself and your mother, yourself and your mother, you know we’re getting on great, we’re great mates, you won’t say anything to her, it’ll, it’ll, it’ll kill her, it’ll hurt her feelings and you’ll ruin our friendship. 00.12.31 Pat Jackman And I said to him, look Sean if you, if you promise not to do to anybody else what you did to me I’ll have no problem in saying anything. And he just smiled at me and he says, ah come on Pat. 00.12.48 Pat Jackman The man was unrepentant. It wasn’t even a question of lying about it, it wasn’t even, if he’d lied to me at that moment, if he said yeah you’re right Pat, I’m very sorry, it won’t happen again, I don’t know what happened to me or whatever, if he’d made some excuse I wouldn’t have said a bloody word. 00.13.06 Pat Jackman But, no he planned to continue and he made no bones about it. Right, bugger you, says I, I’m going home and telling bloody everybody. I didn’t tell him that like but sure the minute, the minute, the second I was in the door. I went up to my auntie. 00.13.29 Sarah Macdonald And said what? 00.13.33 Pat Jackman Well, Sean Fortune queered me up. 00.13.44 Sarah Macdonald Pat Jackman’s father is still closely associated with the Church. 00.13.50 Sarah Macdonald He complained directly to Bishop Herlihey about the sexual assault of his fifteen year old son. 00.13.57 Pat Jackman The Bishop thought it was ludicrous that a man of the cloth would act like that. 00.14.06 Sarah Macdonald When Bishop Herlihey died, Pat’s father complained to the new Bishop, Doctor Brendan Comiskey. 00.14.15 Sarah Macdonald He too did nothing about Fortune’s increasingly bizarre and dangerous behaviour. 00.14.24 Aston GEMMA HEARNE Nobody seemed to be able to do anything about it. I wrote to Bishop Comiskey first of all. I followed it up with a visit and Bishop Comiskey, his first question to me at that visit; had I any reason to believe that Father Fortune was homosexual? 00.14.50 Colm O’Gorman On Sunday mornings, after Fortune had abused me on Saturday night, he’d leave me in his bed in the bedroom in the house there and come down and say first mass. And I remember that he used to come back after saying first mass and sometimes abuse me again and then I’d have to go downstairs with him and have breakfast and then come down here for the second mass and sit and watch him say mass. 00.15.29 Colm O’Gorman It was so hard to make sense of what was happening. 00.15.40 Music 00.16.12 Sarah Macdonald Fortune was abusing and blackmailing many young boys. But still he received the total backing from his Church superiors, even meeting the Pope in the midst of mounting allegations. 00.16.27 Sarah Macdonald Eventually Bishop Comiskey sent Fortune to psychiatrists, but they couldn’t decide if he was a sexual deviant or not. So Fortune was left in the parish. 00.16.41 Sarah Macdonald In this community of just two hundred families, four young men have killed themselves. 00.16.49 Sarah Macdonald Like the abuse, no one talks openly about the suicides. 00.17.00 Sarah Macdonald And there is no direct evidence linking these tragic men to Father Fortune. But many believe that he is to blame. 00.17.09 Waves crashing 00.17.22 Sarah Macdonald Peter Fitzpatrick shot himself in the chest. His mother has now finally voiced the fear she has harboured since discovering her son’s body. 00.17.32 Aston MONICA FITZPATRICK I thought what was going on down in Poulfur, I asked Peter and he said well, the lads were saying like that Father Fortune had the young lads in with him and things that way. But he never mentioned about being in with him. 00.17.49 Monica Fitzpatrick He had a caravan just at the bottom of the garden there because he, he wanted his own bit of space. 00.17.57 Monica Fitzpatrick And when I went down; I called at the caravan door. There was no answer. And I just stepped up into the caravan and Peter was lying back on the bed. 00.18.15 Monica Fitzpatrick I just screamed and I come tearing up the garden. And I got Patrick and my husband and they came down with me to the caravan. And I said, what happened to him, what’s wrong? And Patrick said; ‘Mummy’, he said, ‘you didn’t see, it’s on the floor’ and I didn’t see the gun on the floor. 00.18.45 Monica Fitzpatrick It just keeps hitting me all the time – did he abuse Peter? Was Peter involved with Father Fortune? I do keep thinking about that and would that have sort of brought on, would it brought on this, I don’t know. I don’t know. I talk to myself going round. 00.19.14 Sarah Macdonald Have you contacted the Bishop or anything? 00.19.17 Monica Fitzpatrick No, I haven’t. No, when the Bishop didn’t do anything when he was told about it by the, the youngsters and their family and that and he done nothing about it, there is no point to go near the Bishop. But I think the Bishop knows most of the answers and I think he should be answering the questions for the people. 00.19.42 Music 00.19.52 Sarah Macdonald Six years after the first complaint, Father Fortune was finally removed from Poulfur, burning all financial records relating to the parish on his departure. 00.20.01 Music 00.20.07 Sarah Macdonald All Bishop Comiskey did was to send him to London to study media and communications and to see yet more psychiatrists. 00.20.15 Music 00.20.17 Sarah Macdonald One year later Fortune was brought home and rewarded with not only another parish but also the directorship of the Catholic media organisation, the National Association of Community Broadcasting. 00.20.30 Sarah Macdonald Within months he raped one of his fifteen year old students in a recording booth used for producing religious programmes. 00.20.38 MAN It was in a small booth in front of the main sort of studio and he, you know, started kind of feeling me up and kind of put his hand under my jumper and I was like, no. But, in a sense and very, very rapidly he sort of basically pinned me down against the, the mixing desk and sort of, he, he, he anally raped me. 00.21.06 MAN And it was very frightening, very painful experience and it was all quite brief. It was very brutal and at no point, I think all subtlety, I mean he was a manipulative and very subtle man but I think subtlety went out the window at that stage. And afterwards, it was all over quite quickly and afterwards I got out of there as quickly as possible. 00.21.41 MAN But not before he had a chance to kind of, to say, you know you’ll be in big, big trouble, you know. If, you know, really it would be better for you, you know. And I was like, you know, I’m not going to say anything, just let me get the hell out of here. You know, I was just like, fuck, you know. And I think if I remember rightly I actually left my bag and that was one thing I remember later on, I was coming on the bus home and I thought oh no, I left my bag with all my stuff in there or whatever. But I didn’t, I didn’t go back for it. 00.22.17 Sarah Macdonald Colm O’Gorman, supported by his father, finally went to the police, fifteen years after Fortune raped him for the last time. 00.22.28 Sarah Macdonald Father Fortune was ultimately charged with sixty-six counts of indecent assault and buggery relating to eight boys. 00.22.37 Sarah Macdonald Eighteen years after the first complaint, the Catholic Church was forced to remove him from duties. 00.22.45 Sarah Macdonald But instead of reaching out to Fortune’s many victims, Bishop Comiskey fled his palace and disappeared. 00.22.52 Sarah Macdonald He was tracked down to an American clinic for alcoholics. He returned six months later. 00.22.59 Aston Fr TOM DOYLE Washington Vatican Embassy, 1981-86 My guess would be that if the Bishop knew about it, generally speaking they, because it’s a notorious issue, especially in a small country like Ireland, that the Papal Nuncio would have known and he in turn would have reported that to the Vatican. Whether the Pope would have been personally briefed on it, that I don’t know, I can’t tell you that. But I do know in many of the American cases the Pope did personally know. 00.23.22 Music 00.23.24 Sarah Macdonald In a letter to this programme, Bishop Comiskey said that he maintained an open door policy for survivors of child sexual abuse in his diocese and that was where he felt he could make his best contribution. 00.23.37 Music 00.23.46 Sarah Macdonald Father Fortune was finally brought before the Irish courts in 1999. 00.23.51 Music 00.23.52 Sarah Macdonald Whilst out on bail he killed himself with a cocktail of alcohol and drugs, denying the boys their first chance to be heard. 00.24.04 Aston COLM O’GORMAN Twenty years ago that bastard raped me. 00.24.11 Colm O’Gorman And, I’m still now forced to be in a position where I have to fight to get somebody to acknowledge what they did or didn’t do and the responsibility that they had for that. And I meet up with other men who are in exactly the same position and I find out that, that, that young boys and men have died, have committed suicide, I believe because of what he did to them. 00.24.36 Colm O’Gorman And you have, frankly, bastards like Brendan Comiskey, hiding in his nice palace in Summerhill, behind his alcoholism and his regret and his, you know, his inability to understand or to do anything about it. It’s not good enough; it’s not good enough. It’s not good enough anymore. People have died. People are dying. People are hurting. 00.25.07 Sarah Macdonald Bishop Comiskey! 00.25.07 Bishop Comiskey We will survive, how are you? 00.25.09 Sarah Macdonald I’m fine thanks. Sarah Macdonald, BBC television. 00.25.11 Bishop Comiskey Sarah, how are you? 00.25.12 Sarah Macdonald Very well, thank you. I’ve just come to ask you just a question about Sean Fortune… 00.25.15 Bishop Comiskey I’m going to have mass at half past six… 00.25.15 Sarah Macdonald We just wanted to know why didn’t you stop Sean Fortune abusing young boys? Bishop Comiskey? 00.25.18 Bishop Comiskey I, I, I moved, when it was brought to my attention I moved him out of the parish and sent him on treatment for two years… 00.25.26 Sarah Macdonald Not for six years. Not for six years, you didn’t move him out of the parish. Why didn’t you stop him? 00.25.32 Bishop Comiskey Thank you very much. 00.25.33 Sarah Macdonald Why didn’t you stop him, Bishop Comiskey? 00.25.42 Sarah Macdonald Another young man has killed himself in Fethard-on- Sea. 00.25.45 Music 00.25.52 Sarah Macdonald Since Father Fortune took his own life, six of his victims have begun legal action. 00.25.57 Music 00.26.02 Sarah Macdonald So far, the Church’s only response has been to deny liability and plead diplomatic immunity. 00.26.10 Sarah Macdonald Colm O’Gorman is suing the Bishop, the Papal Nuncio and the Pope. 00.26.15 Music 00.26.18 Graphic Suing the Pope was broadcast on 19th March 2002 00.26.24 Graphic This is what happened next 00.26.32 Colm O’Gorman The next morning the phones really started going crazy but it was, it was press and journalists and people calling from Ireland. 00.26.41 Newsreader Where does the buck stop? 00.26.43 Colm O’Gorman If the church were to agree now fully to co-operate… 00.26.45 Reporter What do you think of Bishop Comiskey? 00.26.46 Woman Not a lot. 00.26.47 Man The church is on a bit of a low. 00.26.52 Colm O’Gorman There were thirty, forty calls a day coming in. The Church and Brendan Comiskey, the Bishop, started to come under particular pressure. 00.27.06 Colm O’Gorman I was quite anxious about the film going out. I really thought that, that people would be very, very, very, very angry. 00.27.13 Alan McGuire We have a fair bit of reaction line to get through... 00.27.15 Woman Hi, I just wanted to ring and offer my support to those men that were abused by… 00.27.19 Woman 2 What worries me is how many more Father Fortune… 00.27.21 Man 1 I think maybe it’s possibly time now that Comiskey should just go. 00.27.27 Sarah Macdonald In Wexford South East radio presenter Alan McGuire’s daily programme was overwhelmed by the response to Suing the Pope. 00.27.36 Aston ALAN MCGUIRE Presenter, South East Radio Most decent people were so full of sympathy for them. I mean we had people ringing in crying. Women in tears, mothers who were concerned about their own children and they knew what the, the, the terrible evil that this can bring into people’s homes. So the community at large I think were very good and were very angry towards the Church. 00.28.00 Sarah Macdonald But death threats arrived in the post. 00.28.03 Voice over Dear Alan. When you have Colm O’Gorman on your programme tell him I hope he rots in hell for what he has done to our lovely Bishop. He’d better keep looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life. 00.28.17 Alan McGuire Let me treat this letter with the contempt it deserves. 00.28.25 Alan McGuire One man phoned in, I remember at the time and said to the, said to my researcher on the phone said that he was going to get a shotgun and he was going to meet me. 00.28.40 Sarah Macdonald While a poll in a local newspaper called for Bishop Brendan Comiskey to resign, he hid inside his palace on Summerhill. 00.28.50 Colm O’Gorman One of the problems that the media in Ireland had at the time was they could not get any Church figure anywhere to, to speak about it. There was nobody. There were no, there were no spokespersons coming out, there were no comments being made. You couldn’t find a senior Church figure anywhere. 00.29.06 Reporter Would you not speak about Bishop Comiskey and his handling of this matter, it’s causing grave distress. 00.29.11 Aston Cardinal DESMOND CONNELL Archbishop of Dublin I deeply regret that, you know, what has happened, I deeply regret what has happened but I don’t know enough about it to be able to make the kinds of judgements that you seem to be able to make. 00.29.24 Colm O’Gorman Uniquely he must have been the only person on the island who didn’t know anything about this case. And considering that he effectively was in some way Brendan Comiskey’s line manager, he was what’s called his Metropolitan Bishop; it did seem extraordinary that he knew nothing about the case. 00.29.40 Sarah Macdonald On Easter Monday, two weeks after Suing the Pope was broadcast, Bishop Comiskey finally emerged. 00.29.47 Aston Dr BRENDAN COMISKEY Bishop of Ferns To begin with I wish to apologise to each of the four men whose stories of abuse have been depicted in the recent documentary and to all who have been abused by priests of the diocese. My continuation in office could indeed be an obstacle to healing. For these reasons, on Thursday last I tended my resignation as Bishop of Ferns to Pope John Paul. I travel to Rome later this week in the furtherance of that process. 00.30.24 Sarah Macdonald In fact Bishop Comiskey was effectively forced to resign. The Pope accepted his resignation. The Vatican announcing that canon law 401 states that a Bishop who has become unsuited for the fulfilment of his office is earnestly requested to offer his resignation. 00.30.43 Aston Fr TOM DOYLE Washington Vatican Embassy, 1981-86 They knew that children were being hurt in Ferns. The reports had gone to the Vatican they were, they had been sent to the Papal Nuncio, the Vatican Ambassador and they were known in Ireland. That was not enough to get Comiskey fired. Your show was enough to get him fired because of the bad publicity. And in all probability that’s what the catalyst was. 00.31.04 Sarah Macdonald The bad publicity? 00.31.05 Fr Tom Doyle Bad publicity. The Catholic Church, the hierarchical Church fears bad publicity. It’s, that is one of the things it fears the most because that means that the image perhaps is going to be seriously challenged and the power is going to be drained. 00.31.23 Music 00.31.26 Sarah Macdonald Two days later the Irish Government made an historic announcement. It would, for the first time, investigate the Church’s handling of clerical sexual abuse in Ferns. 00.31.35 Music 00.31.40 Colm O’Gorman The most important and the most profound change that’s happened socially and politically in Ireland since the film went out is that the Church has become wholly irrelevant. For the first time ever they are the subject of this investigation and not the masters of it. 00.31.54 Music 00.31.57 Sarah Macdonald Stung into action, the Conference of Bishops convened an extraordinary general meeting to announce its own audit of clerical abuse. 00.32.06 Aston Archbishop SEAN BRADY Primate of All-Ireland The safety of children, the welfare of victims and the common good are all supreme concerns and shall be the sole determining factors in the carrying out of this audit so that the truth can be established. 00.32.23 Reporter Could I ask you Cardinal Connell, do you read the newspapers; do you watch television? 00.32.26 Cardinal Connell Of course I do. 00.32.27 Reporter Weren’t you aware of the all the carry on that was going on? 00.32.29 Cardinal Connell I was not aware of all the carry on that was going on, I was aware that there were concerns. 00.32.39 Sarah Macdonald With Bishop Comiskey gone, national attention was refocusing on one of Ireland’s leading clerics, Cardinal Desmond Connell. 00.32.49 Cardinal Connell A dark shadow of suspicion has been cast over so many priests and religious who perform their ministry with honesty and integrity and often with heroic self-sacrifice. 00.33.03 Sarah Macdonald Emboldened by the bravery of the men in Suing the Pope, more victims came forward, this time with allegations of Church cover-up linked to Cardinal Connell’s Dublin diocese. 00.33.15 Sarah Macdonald His apparent willingness to seek truth and reconciliation with survivors has not always been encouraging. 00.33.23 Aston Cardinal DESMOND CONNELL ‘Would You Believe’ January 1998 00.33.23 Reporter Why didn’t you go yourself Bishop? 00.33.24 Cardinal Desmond Connell Go where? 00.33.25 Reporter Go to the victims yourself and encourage them to go to the police. 00.33.31 Cardinal Desmond Connell I suppose perhaps I should have, perhaps I should have done but I’ve so much to do. 00.33.39 Music 00.33.42 Sarah Macdonald Suing the Pope made Time magazine as America and England became dogged by now familiar scandals. 00.33.48 Music 00.33.51 Sarah Macdonald The Vatican was embroiled in allegations of clerical sexual abuse across the world. 00.33.58 Fr Tom Doyle Why did it take an avalanche of negative publicity, a tidal wave of lawsuits and a flood of money leaving the Church to get the bishops’ attention and to force them to publicly say we’re sorry this has happened, we’ve made mistakes. Why, when they found about the first one, years ago, couldn’t they come forward and say this is evil; we have to stop this immediately. Why did it take all of that? Nobody has answered that question from their side. That question has to be answered. 00.34.31 Sarah Macdonald What do you think the reason is? 00.34.32 Fr Tom Doyle I think the reason is, is because they were covering up. 00.34.38 Sarah Macdonald The Catholic Church in Boston announced it was contemplating bankruptcy, some cynically believed to avoid huge compensation claims. 00.34.48 Sarah Macdonald Boston’s Cardinal Bernard Law has recently been forced to resign over his alleged protection of paedophile priests. 00.34.57 Sarah Macdonald Similar pressure is being applied to the Head of the Catholic Church in England and Wales. 00.35.04 Protestor 1 You must be, you must be very proud of your church today. 00.35.07 Protestor 2 Let he who is without sin among us cast the first stone. 00.35.09 Man Yeah, he cast the first one when I was a child. 00.35.12 Nun We’re only praying for the Church. 00.35.15 Sarah Macdonald Back in Ireland there were protests outside mass being given by Cardinal Connell. 00.35.21 Man 1 People like this, how can they celebrate? 00.35.32 Cardinal Desmond Connell I’m not giving any interviews at all; it’s a very happy day. 00.35.35 Woman Cardinal Connell the protests are so powerful this morning, these people, one man actually fell down… 00.35.40 Cardinal Desmond Connell I’m sorry, I’m sorry I told you I’m giving no interviews…thank you. 00.35.44 Man 2 Stand back. 00.35.48 Alan McGuire Colm, sit yourself down there and nice to have with us. Good to see you, it’s been a bit of a while. 00.35.53 Colm O’Gorman Yeah, good to see you too Alan. 00.35.55 Alan McGuire How are things with you? 00.35.58 Colm O’Gorman Good. Hectic, crazy but good. 00.36.00 Sarah Macdonald Colm O’Gorman is launching a Dublin office of his charity for victims of child abuse, One in Four. South East radio announced that Colm and Correspondent were returning to Wexford to make this update to Suing the Pope. 00.36.15 Alan McGuire In the main, people have been supportive to you but even coming on air this morning we received a negative comment, would you like to hear it, this is on our reaction line. 00.36.25 Woman The BBC coming over to do another programme. Well, quite frankly I think it’s most insensitive, unappropriate at this particular time or any time in fact. And I would like to just comment on Colm O’Gorman, to cast, to cast any stone particularly the first one. And I say sin with a big S, thank you. 00.36.53 Alan McGuire Colm O’Gorman you’re a big S; a big sinner, how dare you cast the first stone. 00.36.58 Colm O’Gorman To somehow blame individual victims, myself or anybody else, for the, for the pain and the distress that rape and abuse of, perpetrated by clerics is causing wider society and I understand that distress to me seems absolutely ridiculous. 00.37.15 Alan McGuire Still a lot of calls coming in of the nature like this, Colm. Phil says; Colm O’Gorman should go back to England and stay in a pagan country and stop trying to bring down the Church. You’re trying to bring down the Church, Colm O’Gorman. 00.37.28 Colm O’Gorman Not at all. If the truth is the thing that brings the Church down well that’s a sad indictment of the state of the Church. 00.37.34 Drums 00.37.40 Sarah Macdonald The public revelations of sexual abuse by Father Sean Fortune has had a profound effect on all the contributors to Suing the Pope. 00.37.48 Sarah Macdonald Pat Jackman remains living in Wexford. After the programme was broadcast he suffered severe depression, had to give up his job and endure the good and bad attentions of a small community. 00.37.59 Drums 00.38.02 Aston PAT JACKMAN Initially it was horrendous. Not only do you have to kind of deal with letting out your grubby little secret but you also have to deal with the attention and everybody looking at you and being like a goldfish in a goldfish bowl, you know. And then you’ve still got the core problems of the legacy of the effects of the abuse on you as well. So it’s like a quadruple whammy and it was, it was really, I went down hill dreadfully after it initially. 00.38.28 Drums 00.38.30 Sarah Macdonald And then he pulled it together. He launched his own theatre music company, fell in love and grew up. 00.38.39 Pat Jackman The sense of, you know, no fear. For the first time in my life to say things like no, I don’t want to do this, you know, or this is not right or addressing problems in relationships, not just personal relationships but business relationships, friendship relationships, all that sort of stuff, it’s gone. You know and it’s been replaced by a, by serenity which is marvellous. And I’ve, it, it caused me to grow up. I think, I think, I’m thirty-seven now and I think I became thirty-seven about six months ago. I think before that I was probably twenty-seven. It’s a very public growing up but it was a growing up nonetheless. 00.39.23 Drums 00.39.31 Sarah Macdonald Rome has appointed Bishop Eamonn Walsh as temporary Apostolic Administrator in the Diocese of Ferns. 00.39.38 Sarah Macdonald He’s promised to track down any remaining paedophile priests, hand over relevant files to the state inquiry and heal the wounds of his flock. 00.39.48 Sarah Macdonald Do you feel a disappointment with your own Church and the cover-up that has happened? 00.39.57 Aston Bishop EAMONN WALSH Acting Apostolic Administrator of Ferns Somewhere along the line we treated our fellow priests as if they were a kind of a special in the family and so a lot of our energy went towards treating them and dealing with them and not dealing with the people who were utterly knocked down and shattered. And that’s the only way I can understand it and explain it, is that we got the application of our own teaching wrong. 00.40.30 Sarah Macdonald Bishop Comiskey was bought a house by the Church after being forced to resign. He said he would write to the men in Suing the Pope, but never has. And now is believed to be training as a counsellor in America. 00.40.45 Sarah Macdonald Peter Fitzpatrick shot himself in the chest, his mother believed because he had been abused by Father Fortune. 00.40.53 Sarah Macdonald She never had any proof but since the programme her worst fears have been confirmed. 00.40.59 Aston MONICA FITZPATRICK It was like relief after when people had come and said, yes, you know that they knew that Peter was abused by Father Fortune. It was like a weight sort of lifted and that there is somebody out there that knows what had happened. 00.41.24 Monica Fitzpatrick I don’t know who or what you’d want in to sort it out. The more that they continue to cover-up is only making, it’s, it’s destroying the Church, that’s what they’re doing. It’s really destroying, what we were led to believe, growing up, that you believe in the Church and what the priest done was right. And this is what you were bringing your children, we were brought up to do that and this is what you’re trying to do with your children. But unless they’re going to come clean about it, it is, they’re going to destroy the Church themselves. Nobody else is going to do it; they’re doing it themselves. 00.41.57 Music 00.42.02 Sarah Macdonald The Irish government is to mount an even more aggressive nationwide probe into clerical abuse and has warned the Catholic Church it can no longer invoke canon law to withhold evidence. The Church has abandoned its own inquiry. 00.42.16 Music 00.42.22 Colm O’Gorman When I left, I ran. When I left, I had to go. When I left Wexford, I left Wexford because if I didn’t I wouldn’t survive. And I know that in all likelihood I would have ended up jumping from a bridge somewhere because I couldn’t have continued to live here and deal with the memories and the feelings and everything that was going on for me then. 00.42.49 Colm O’Gorman So it is extraordinary to be coming back. 00.42.56 Sarah Macdonald Colm has become a national hero for his bravery in speaking out. 00.43.00 Applause 00.43.03 Woman Well the word courage could well have been coined for our third award winner; ladies and gentlemen, Colm O’Gorman. 00.43.09 Applause 00.43.25 Sarah Macdonald Colm O’Gorman is still suing Bishop Comiskey, the Papal Nuncio and the Pope. 00.43.32 Sarah Macdonald And while the Church talks about reconciliation and healing, they are still claiming diplomatic immunity from answering any questions about their knowledge of his sexual abuse by a Catholic priest. 00.43.45 End Music 00.43.52 Voice over You can comment on tonight’s programme by visiting our web site at: www.bbc.co.uk/correspondent Reported & Directed by SARAH MACDONALD Original Music by CHARLIE MOLE Camera JONATHAN CALLERY VT Editor JASPAL BANGA Dubbing Mixer BOB JACKSON Graphic Design STEVE ENGLAND Production Team ALEXANDRA CAMERON SARAH EVA MARTHA O’SULLIVAN AGNES TEEK Production Manager JANE WILLEY Unit Manager SUSAN CRIGHTON Film Research NICK DODD Web Producer ANDREW JEFFREY Picture Editor HUGH WILLIAMS Deputy Editor DAVID BELTON 00.44.05 Voice over Correspondent’s back at its usual time of seven fifteen next Sunday. With one woman’s experience of love and divorce in the new China. 00.44.14 CORRESPONDENT 00.44.15 Editor KAREN O’CONNOR BBC © BBC MMIII 00.44.22 End BBC Correspondent 1